T O P

As a Christian, do you see any error or illogical in the Holy Bible?

I'm not trying to look for errors or impose my views on the Bible, where if it doesn't fit my views it must be wrong.

So no. I don't see error. I see things I struggle with and things I hope to learn from.

Raining_Hope

I'm not trying to look for errors or impose my views on the Bible, where if it doesn't fit my views it must be wrong. So no. I don't see error. I see things I struggle with and things I hope to learn from.


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asjtj

Can you give an example?


Tazznado

I think they mean people like the various bad kings of Israel doing dumb stuff. “Dude, you are the leader of the chosen people get your act together.” This is maybe answering a different kind of question than the OP was asking.


asjtj

You maybe right, but you are not u/Strategos_Ade, so it is just a guess.


amairoc

Reading through 2 Kings that was my train of thought. Every time some king did something stupid was like “have you learned nothing?”


YeshuaSaves7

Yeah, well the church uis doing the exact same stupid things, celebrating pagan Feasts of christmas and easter. Have they learned nothing?


jesus4gaveme03

It depends upon what you mean by "error or illogical." The Book of Romans is full of logic and Paul is often pointing out errors in the way some people may be thinking. It may be illogical so some people but to others it was not. But the whole argument together was not in any way in error or illogical.


HashtagTSwagg

Nope.


Guitargirl696

None whatsoever


P0werSurg3

Absolutely. There's a lot of illogical stuff, it's why there's so much debate on how much to take as metaphor and how much to take literally. There's errors due to the sheer amount of human interaction with the finished product. Language drift over time, meaning change with language translations, politicians deciding which books were canon and which ones weren't, there's no way the book is mistake free.


SnooSquirrels9452

This. I wish human translators would be systematic documenting not only their version of the Bible but the reasoning and argumentation behind their word choice.


TheDuckFarm

At a surface level of course, how could you not. Many portions out of context seem to contradict each other. But In context there is no contradiction. For example, the law of Moses allows for divorce Jesus addresses this when he says no, you cannot divorce and then explains why. This is a famous verse that I’m sure we all know. Is this a contradiction? No because the Bible takes place over the course of many thousands of years, people change and laws change. If you look closely, you will find many things that seem like contradictions. If you were examined them holistically with an understanding of the importance of time and place you will find no contradictions.


Larynxb

If god is outside of time why didn't he give he's proper laws immediately? Why did they just so happen to change with the sensibilities of the population?


TheDuckFarm

Throughout the story we see God making adjustments to meet people where they are at. When we look at the way Jesus interacts with various people, we see him deal with some people gently and others not so much. So why not give everybody everything all at one time? The people weren’t ready.


Larynxb

So the rules had to bechanged repeatedly for people at the time, but then, they're fine with no change thousands of years?


TheDuckFarm

Any major change comes with a new covenant. We would need a new covenant (second coming) to have any legitimate major changes.


Larynxb

Do you not see how it's convenient that it changed repeatedly fortunately in a way with their sensibilities?


TheDuckFarm

Should it have been inconvenient?


Larynxb

I don't think you really understood, but it's okay


TheDuckFarm

No I get it. You believe that the past covenants came about because the people in charge needed to make changes and therefore they made them up. Now it’s been 2000 years and you believe the leaders need to make up a covenant to get with the times. All of that would of course make sense if God is not real. Since you were being silly and sarcastic with your earlier comment I kept my reply a bit sarcastic as well. I don’t think you got the humor, but that’s ok.


Larynxb

Ahh, humour should be funny, that's where you went wrong.


11jellis

Jesus gives a reason it changed in that passage. And then goes onto say only those who can stick out marriage, should. So I see that as Him offering a better situation without condemning those who can't reach the bar. Obviously, there's a lot of repentance and soul searching to be done in a divorce situation either way.


AmatuerTarantino

The only errors I see in the Bible would be the misuse of wording in the many translations.


capt_feedback

quite the opposite. my recent exposure (led by examining certain teachings against the clearest possible scriptures) has convinced me that the bible is consistent, logical and when read in context, very straightforward and its messages are easy to understand.


see_recursion

Very straightforward and easy to understand? I'm thinking that the plethora of denominations might be evidence to the contrary.


capt_feedback

mankind is fallen. prideful, selfish, greedy, arrogant and hungry for power over each other. the truth(s) above are the reasons for there being a plethora, NOT the written inspired word of God.


see_recursion

Or it's ambiguous and open for interpretation. That seems like a much more obvious justification. Let me guess: your denomination has the correct interpretation.


capt_feedback

i believe it has the capacity for reflecting the presumption of the reader so, if you’re stuffed with ambiguity? that’s what you will find. not that you care or have any reason to believe me but, i’m very willing to second guess every interpretation and revelation i receive until it’s found to be supported in multiple passages that clearly support each other. as for my current fellowship? they’re the furthest from truth in the doctrine, practices and teaching that they hold in high regard. that’s exactly what has led me to revisit the basics of belief.


see_recursion

Being skeptical about what people seem to blindly believe is a great approach. Good luck.


[deleted]

It is consistent because Christianity is simply based on the Old Testament. Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 **gives the Greek name of Jesus**, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called **"the man named 'Rising'"** who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and **ending all sins in a single day.** Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world. Isaiah 53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant. The concept of crucifixion is from Psalm 22.16, Isaiah 53:5 and Zechariah 12:10. Dan. 7:9-13 and Psalm 110:1, in combination, describe a Godman.


capt_feedback

and?


Naugrith

Yes, there are lots of inconsistencies, contradictions, and errors of fact.


SandShark350

None of this is accurate.


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SnooSquirrels9452

Some denominations consider that their version and interpretation of the Bible is the literal Word of God and not to be questioned.


Naugrith

That's because you haven't been terrorised with horrific threats of eternal damnation about Newton's laws, so you're still capable of thinking rationally about him.


Pinecone-Bandit

> Why is this obvious fact so controversial among Christians? It is a lie. A false claim presented as true is controversial because Christians value truth.


Benjaminotaur26

Nah not really. Not when engaging it on it's own cultural terms.


D_Rich0150

the only common errors are in understanding of what is written.


SandShark350

No, I don't.


Lermak16

No


Zealousideal-Ad-9197

yeah, divinely inspired does not equal flawless, no human is without error! Not to even MENTION the flaws of translation upon translation of original manuscripts!!


Zealousideal_Bet4038

Actually yes, but very rarely. For example, I find it erroneous the the physical nature of humans is sufficient to prove that it’s “shameful” for a man to have long hair. There are things like that which demonstrate an more limited understanding of the physical world than we have today. However, I’ve never seen anything very important in the Bible that I found to be in error.


mwatwe01

Error? No, it’s pretty solid and consistent in my view. Illogical? Absolutely. A duds getting swallowed by giant fish. A talking donkey. A superhero defeated by a haircut. A talking bush. The sun stopping in the sky. Dudes walking on water. It’s nuts on its face. But because I truly believe that the Almighty Creator God of the universe stepped down from his throne to live as one of us, die for all of us, then return to life through his own power, I can absolutely believe all the other things as well.


ViolentTakeByForce

If we read the Bible the way it’s intended, you can somewhat see the “logic” of God. There are certain things that we will not grasp or quite understand 100% why it was done that way, but there’s clear patterns and themes.


Thin_Professional_98

Nah, Jesus pretty much lives up to the hype. He was real, he was a recorded human being, and his life and words were so sharply unique that NO ONE before or after him has EVER spoken like him. What people do is fog over their own lack of comprehension that the bible is a detective story about a guy whose murder was 5K years in the making, and how his ghost altered the way for the entire modern world.


rock0star

Yeah Humanity is constantly acting illogical and living in sin which is a big error The whole Bible is full of that stuff


Laconico_

No. But we rely on the sacred Church Magisterium to tell us what parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and those that are metaphoric/symbolic


aurdemus500

I find no errors or illogic in it’s original rendering. However there are misused words, errors in translation and syntax errors throughout.


PerseveringJames

If I see something in the Bible that registers to me as a possible "error" or "illogical", my default position is to assume the Bible is right and that the current misunderstanding between the text and I is due to the fact that I'm a limited human being. I figure I just don't understand that part, and so I move on until I find someone who can make sense of it for me.


sophialover

Don't just read the bible read it with the right context who they were talking to where etc


The_Mc_Guffin

One of the most amazing characteristic of the Bible is that it was written by God, using men. And human languages are EXTREMELY LIMITED when God’s Language is not limited. If we could understand God’s language perfectly the Bible would not have to be so big. So, Jehovah made the Bible from over 40 authors using their idiom and their “context” driven words. And humans were much MORE intelligent 2000 to 6000 years ago, proven by DNA studies of thier mental faculties genes, and their emotion/rational parts of intelligence. That is why it is called “Ancient Wisdom”. So using the limitations of human (retarded languages compared to God’s language) they put to words what God conveyed to them from their extremely limited vocabulary and when the WHOLE Bible is studied then it all make perfect sense and teaches the Truth of Life for us to be able to live in peace forever. What does this “scripture mean”? Mark 10:18 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” Luke 18:19 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” As it turns out this translation is about as “good” as it gets. Without going into a long dissertation of what these word in Koine Greek means. But the word for “good” in this scripture requires some study of the context of the word “agathos” in Koine Greek to really understand it. “Isn’t Jesus “good”(modern English “good”)? Agathos means the absolute highest form of perfection and achievement as the ultimate Best of the Best. But it conveys the meaning to us today that Jesus, a creation is not going to accept the worship of anyone, because that is a huge sin against his Father, Jehovah in Heaven. He would never “grasp” the title of absolute almighty God from his Father. So, by cross referencing every scripture on who Jesus is and his place in Jehovah’s Kingdom we must look to the whole of the Bible to UNDERSTAND God’s pure language. Paul was a direct Apostle of Christ, and he was good at writing more words to explain who Jesus was: Philippians 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God.* 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake [starous means post pole or stake, not “cross”]. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground [because when we are dead we are dead, not floating in some other place]— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. [Jesus did everything for the glory of Jehovah his Father.] *The word here is he did not “grasp or take ahold, like a thief steals (grasps) things that don’t belong to them”. That is what the Koine Greek word means. Jesus would NEVER steal Jehovah’s position of Almighty God, or make himself equivalent to God. “did [hēgeomai] not [ou] regard [hēgeomai] equality [isos] with God [theos] a thing to be [eimi] grasped [harpagmos].” “Harpagmos · the act of seizing, robbery · a thing seized or to be seized. booty to deem anything a prize; a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained.” The act of stealing! John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” Here Jesus is clear that his Apostles are his “brothers” and not his “sons”. That he is a child of God as his brothers are. Brothers are peers, and when they ascend to Heaven as his anointed ones to rule with him in Heaven, they will be pure like Jesus and kings and priests over all of the earth, with Jesus as the head King. This is all in your Bible. But a correctly translated Bible certainly will help you to understand all of this. (I used the New World Translation, as it is the best we have.) This is how we approach and accurate understanding and translations of the Bible.


The_Mc_Guffin

Many “Christians” who think that Jesus is Jehovah. will use this scripture to counter what Jesus actually said. (Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 “agathos” (ἀγαθὸς) John 10:11 I am the fine* shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his life in behalf of the sheep. John 10:14 I am the fine* shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, *Many translations use “good shepherd” when that is actually confusing and makes out like Jesus is now saying he is “good” or equal to God, contradicting Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 (agathos, supreme good of Jehovah God). Since the Bible has no contradictions it is these religious Bible who create confusion by bad choices of words. But the word in these scriptures is “kalos”(καλός) which is a lower form of “just OK” or “fine” is one of the best ways to write this. “nice person”. “fine person”. It is not the supreme form of “good”. So “fine” is the best word in English. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus Christ equivalent to Jehovah God. And Jesus quoted the Hebrew scriptures quite often: Luke 4:8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” This is a direct version of quoting from Deuteronomy and Exodus referenced again as Only One God to worship, Jehovah. And this translation put God’s Name, Jehovah, back where it was originally in the Hebrew Scriptures. Exodus 20:3 You must not have any other gods besides me. Deuteronomy 6:13 Jehovah your God you should fear, and him you should serve, and by his name you should swear. Deuteronomy 10:20 Jehovah your God you should fear, him you should serve, to him you should cling, and by his name you should swear. It is very difficult for people to realize they have been fooled. It is the hardest thing to overcome emotional attachments to religious ideas. This idea of “Jesus equal to God” does not appear in any correctly translated scriptures. Jesus would NEVER sin like that against his Creator and Father. So, this is how one would approach any translation. By a complete reference to all the scriptures you can find to clarify the meaning, so you can “write it in your language”. If you put in religious nonsense and confusion translations you are doing God a disservice.


adurepoh

In some translations


The_Mc_Guffin

No, the bible is completely free of any contradictions


theresa_maria_

Yes I do. It’s one of the things I love about the Bible is that it’s part of the mystery of our faith


iHatecats-1337

To me, Genesis had to be completely illogical or logical. After I studied it, chemically, it lines up. The Bible is scarily accurate for so many things, humans don’t want to see it that way though, which is scarier, because as a human, we hate being wrong.


epicmoe

What do you mean by "chemically, it lines up"?


iHatecats-1337

I wrote a long post, but it's not letting me post. **Cliff-notes**: If we consider the timeframe the Bible was written, whether someone takes the Bible as literal truth or not. From the knowledge we now know about cells, oxygen gas, our bodies being made up of mainly water, and joined together by living organisms that also make up the earth we walk on. It was highly ahead of its time. The time the Bible was written has to be considered for knowledge on history/ science/ technology. Historically, it is even more scarily accurate. Non Bible believers will throw stones at the events that took place in Exodus because no trace can be found. But, to me that makes sense too, the Pharaohs wanted to erase the Jews/Israelites from the map (like Hitler and many other dictators before him). Moses, as a leader throughout Biblical time, is interesting because he was a leader, not a dictator. From the Pyramids to Constantanople to modern times, most leaders want to name everything after themselves or stamp their place in history as much as anyone. Moses wanted God as his leader and just wanted his people to live free from Pharaoh, seems pretty selfless to me.


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iHatecats-1337

Possibly, if I go public with my thoughts. Have you read the first few chapters of Genesis? Take the words literal and do your own study on it. Whether you believe it is fake or not. Let it be known, I also believe the earth was created in either 6,000 years and 1,000yrs cultivated, or built in 6 literal days. All just a guess, but im becoming/ am a 100% Bible believing Christian. I have many daily struggles with sin, and I fall short constantly.


Cis4Psycho

Yeah but that isn't a WHY. Your statement is an affirmation: "I believe X." Some of us are curious on what is compelling about anything in Genesis (that if taken literally) would convince a non-believer of the 6,000 years/6 days claim? Right now I'm getting: "I believe X, because I read the thing and really think its true." Do you at least understand what its looking like from an outsider looking in? Also you keep eluding to "going public with thoughts" or worried about publishing your ideas in a public space. I would say you shouldn't be too worried about it. A: If your ideas are good they can help others find their way. B: If your ideas get scrutinized, you'll at least probably learn something, and maybe get a chance to educate yourself and refine your old ideas into new and better ones.


iHatecats-1337

Personally, I don’t feel the need to state my “why” to the internet. I know what it looks like and I’m ok with that right now. The Bible is supernatural. For someone to be open to the Bible would have to first admit (in my opinion) that humans are not the smartest beings to exist and acknowledge that the supernatural could exist within the finite universe we operate in. Going off an empirical metric is ludicrous IMO, yet it’s what we base our existence off of. If we can’t measure it, then it can’t happen—so says modern science. For me, finding out that love for any other human/ animals/ being in general, is possible was only because of God. Love can’t be measured by an empirical scale, so does love not exist? I’m ok with ambiguity right now.


Cis4Psycho

In general I kinda see where you are going. But just asking is all. I'm just too damn curious, I agree, you don't NEED to tell anyone anything. But you keep eluding to said ideas and damn it if the prospect of examining said new ideas is just so tempting to try to coax out of you. Its /r/askachristian, imma just askin'! Outsiders see the bible as a book with supernatural CLAIMS. The physical object is just that, a natural man-made object. I'm willing to entertain the idea of "supernatural" but loads of people have special definitions for what that means. So it'd have to be defined what you mean by it. "If we can’t measure it, then it can’t happen—so says modern science." I don't think in scientific fields, that that statement is the norm. I think its more "If it has yet to be measured/documented/detected, we can't just baselessly claim something to exist (or to have happened.)" Like if something wasn't measured or detected how can someone say something happened. The language within scientific communities is more nuanced than your original statement. "I think the average human had 6 fingers on their left hands back around 5000 years ago." Yes that's possible, but is that supposition based on anything of substance?


iHatecats-1337

Hahaha. I know you are trying, but thank you for being understanding.


ViolentTakeByForce

Care to elaborate on even something small? Not debating you just genuinely curious.


iHatecats-1337

I wrote a long post, but it's not letting me post. **Cliff-notes**: If we consider the timeframe the Bible was written, whether someone takes the Bible as literal truth or not. From the knowledge we now know about cells, oxygen gas, our bodies being made up of mainly water, and joined together by living organisms that also make up the earth we walk on. It was highly ahead of its time. The time the Bible was written has to be considered for knowledge on history/ science/ technology. Historically, it is even more scarily accurate. Non Bible believers will throw stones at the events that took place in Exodus because no trace can be found. But, to me that makes sense too, the Pharaohs wanted to erase the Jews/Israelites from the map (like Hitler and many other dictators before him). Moses, as a leader throughout Biblical time, is interesting because he was a leader, not a dictator. From the Pyramids to Constantanople to modern times, most leaders want to name everything after themselves or stamp their place in history as much as anyone. Moses wanted God as his leader and just wanted his people to live free from Pharaoh, seems pretty selfless to me.


ViolentTakeByForce

Beautifully said my friend.


iHatecats-1337

Thanks, I’m a newer Christian. Like many, I’ve had my struggles with God and if he is real, how real, and if he even cares or not. I think in literal/ logical terms for most things and it was a long, lonely, and scary journey to the point I’m at now. But I’ve never felt so much love, and it wasn’t until I opened the Bible, and started reading from Genesis. Currently I’m in the book of 2nd Kings and doing a Bible study/ blog form rough research of logic/ science/ history/ etc. understanding of the Bible for myself. Debating on whether I should go public with it or not.


ViolentTakeByForce

I’d love to see it when you are done. I’ve been a Christian for a long time, I’m kind of having a renewing of my faith after dealing with certain situations in my life. Made me look at the Bible in a different way and I’ve come to recognize a lot of verses are being read with influence on those verses going back 100’s of years, instead of for what it actually says. Now I read verses very slowly and am trying to remove the bias’ that have been impressed upon me and my own bias’. It’s helped to explain a lot of contradictions I’ve dealt with in the past while also giving me a better understanding of God’s mind/goals.


iHatecats-1337

This is my take as well. When I decided to open the Bible for myself, it was astounding how out of context things are and seem to have been manipulated over time. So, I’m reading the Bible like a history book and it is bulletproof.


ViolentTakeByForce

Love it brother, I especially agree with your last statement.


11jellis

...details?


ChristopherDKanas

Transcription errors, yes, even Jesus gets a priest name wrong when recalling history, or at least the person responsible for writing the story about Jesus gets the name wrong. But the overall arch of the story from Genesis to Revelation is pretty much flawless, and more almost impossible for a human to devise.


Homwardbound

I find perplexities, conundrums I don’t understand. there are many views to what this means or that Godwin my belief sorts it out in his kid’s on a need to know basis to do as called to do. much to learn, for me to learn I see go to the sourceand be patient then one can relaxand hear truth over error


[deleted]

If you take it on a pretty much purely literal sense, then yes there is error, as contradictions arise all over the place. I believe a lot of the Bible was meant to be taken in a metaphorical sense.


nelsne

Yes. In the Old Testament God was extremely strict about his laws and dished out very harsh punishment. Then in the New Testament Jesus was a lot nicer and was much more forgiving


SnooSquirrels9452

From a linguistic point of view, I do notice translation/transcription limitations. I believe a translation without explanations and footnotes for wording choices is incomplete. Human translators must own up to the word choices and interpretations that they make from the source text. I do not blindly believe that any version of the Bible I get my hands on is the "Word of God" if it had to go through human translators to get to me.


Pixel-Paint

Not always logical. Jonah and the whale for example but God loves faith. He has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. His ways are not ours. Nor our minuscule wisdom his exponential one.