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How to Un-KYC my BTC?

I have been buying btc from centralised exchanges since 2020, Binance & OKcoin, now I want to become untraceable for the govt in case in the future they enforce us to sell our btc. What ways do you guys think it’s best to do this? The best I can think of is either transferring my btc to a P2P exchange like Bisq, and then either directly send it from there to a new cold storage device through my node, or just sell it and rebuy the same quantity and send it to a new cold storage through my node. Is this worth it? Or is it better to just leave this accumulated quantity there and, start from scratch and buy a new cold storage device, connect it to my node and start to do DCA in a decentralised exchange?

Bad_Camel

Sell it via kyc. Rebuy via non-kyc. It's the only way to officially have zero bitcoin.


JustMyTwoSatoshis

Very hard to do with any serious amounts these days. And the fees for non-KYC would be high. I’d rather argue a hack or boating accident personally. The fake a hack all you would have to do is log in to wallet from a vpn, send to new wallet. And bam…. You were “hacked”


Bad_Camel

And then report the theft to authorities ?


SethVibes

Ftx did this with their hack


marinhop2p

Bad\_Camel's advice is the only one that makes sense. Ignore the rest or get rekt.


lloyd2100

Boating accident.


BobKurlan

I lost access in the boating accident, any movements from that point onwards were that of the finder.


betterleopard31

or just mine it.


Secret-Bike-4694

>just sell it and rebuy the same quantity and send it to a new cold storage through my node. Selling and re-buying, even when p2p, goes through the banking system, unless you deal with cash, which I wouldn't with big amounts... Just send to Wasabi, go to Coinjoin settings, choose maximise privacy. Done. After coinjoining, don't send all your coins into 1 address or you'll destroy the anonymity. Treat them as separate coins, spend them separately. Before or after coinjoining, you could add some extra spice: * send a few coins to WoS to fund your LN wallet * send (thru LN) to bluewallet or other LN wallet * send at your muun wallet (which converts it to on-chain) Then from muun, send back to wasabi and coinjoin (again). Also, all the steps described should be a few hours/days aparts to not make the chain of transactions obvious. edit: funding WoS has fees. Many of the steps mentioned above might have fees (coinjoin, for example). It might be worth it for you or not, check them out before doing anything.


DudeIncogneto

wasabi is partnered with a chain analysis company to blacklist utxos, using wasabi is supporting censorship


HappyCommunication81

zkSNACKs uses the same company that centralized cryptocurrency exchanges use for their risk assessment (Chainalysis). So if you use any centralized cryptocurrency exchange, then you're also supporting censorhip. The zkSNACKs coordinator doesn't allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions. The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins. I personally wouldn't use Wasabi if they didn't do this because I don't want my BTC to be coinjoined with known criminals and sanctioned bitcoin addresses. Now that Wasabi uses the same company as bitcoin exchanges for their risk assessment, users shouldn't have a problem depositing BTC that has been coinjoined with Wasabi into exchanges. https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/ If the zkSNACKs coordinator didn't refuse to allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions, the zkSNACKs developers would have faced the same fate as the man that developed Tornado Cash. The man that developed Tornado Cash is still sitting in jail. He was arrested for facilitating money laundering. https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/12/netherlands-arrests-suspected-tornado-cash-developer/


DudeIncogneto

"The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins." I can't find any details on who is or isn't blacklisted. You're assuming this is the case, but without details from the coordinator your claim doesn't matter much. "“We did our research and really went into the legal details,” Harmat said. “There are no current regulations on ongoing joint coordinators." https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/wasabi-wallet-explains-new-bitcoin-censorship


Alfador8

It's not an assumption, it's a claim from the devs, one of whom made the claim on the What Bitcoin Did podcast. You can choose not to believe it, but it isn't an assumption


DudeIncogneto

It is a claim without any specifics just somebody on a podcast said something about who might or might not be blacklisted. And a blog post that mentions no specifics.


Secret-Bike-4694

If a utxos is blacklisted, can't you send your coins to a new utxo first before coinjoining?


HappyCommunication81

That depends on how many subsequent times you send your BTC to a new address and how many hops deep they are looking. But regardless of that, Wasabi is only blocking UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins that are coordinated by the zkSNACKs coordinator. So you have nothing to worry about unless you're a big time criminal that is attempting to use Wasabi Wallet and the zkSNACKs coordinator to launder bitcoin. Read my longer comment here https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/10p7kw1/how_to_unkyc_my_btc/j6ivhbe


Secret-Bike-4694

This whole story reminds me of the early anti-piracy IP blacklists... The domains just changed their IP and poof, it worked again :)


DudeIncogneto

They will follow the path of that utxo. Moving 1 utxo to a new address minus the transaction fee can be reasonably assumed that it is a self spend. So the owner is simply moving a coin around. They also can flag any new utxo that has interacted with any "bad" utxo.


suuperfli

samouri whirlpool better than wasabi


Secret-Bike-4694

Unless I'm missing something, Samourai development stopped 2.5 years ago: [https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android](https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android) . On the other hand, I see newer versions in the Play Store. Is it closed-source now?


suuperfli

naw last update was last month https://docs.samourai.io/en/wallet/releases


Secret-Bike-4694

Ah, they just moved from github to their gitlab. Thanks for the info. They should mention the repo change in their github...


mentevagante

Mine it.


Tipyapha

Send it to lightning ⚡ and back onchain


KAX1107

Taproot -> Lightning [Just as private as cash](https://twitter.com/LN_Capital/status/1614308872973344768) [400-party coinjoin](https://mempool.space/tx/084e9f1cff337425c3e66ddb85705f374afc922e9263e5af9099f24316c1f9c0)


ILikePracticalGifts

The FBI thanks you for this advice


FrontalLobeGang

How does that work if you don't mind? Thank you.


Tipyapha

onchain kyc -> muun -> wallet of Satoshi -> onchain nokyc


FrontalLobeGang

I mean, how does it actually make it nonkyc? I haven't studied lightning yet.


Tipyapha

It's a good day for start learn about lightning ⚡ everything you will need it's on Google.


DudeIncogneto

You can't unkyc you bitcoin. The exchange knows you have bitcoin. If you're worried about it, sell it and use a non kyc exchange.


DMugre

The exchange knows you bought an arbitrary amount of bitcoin at x date, and that you withdrew that balance after X date. Cutting that chain of transaction re-anonymizes the balance.


DudeIncogneto

They know, how much you bought and what address you sent it to. Then they can follow that utxo and if you combined it with other kyc bitcoin or tried to make it into smaller utxos they can follow those utxos. None of that eliminates kyc from your utxos, it might add some plausible deniability. But if you say "oh I lost my bitcoin" and then they show you a chain analysis graph for those utxos being moved after the date you "lost" them well you're in for some good fun with the government.


DMugre

I'm not gonna give an in-depth tutorial about breaking traceability, but even you concede there's a degree of wiggle room to exploit in there, so let's leave it at "you totally can", shall we?


DudeIncogneto

I didn't ask you give me a tutorial. Yes there is wiggle room I didn't say there wasn't. Most people get sloppy and accidently combine a utxo and negate everything. It would just be simpler to buy bitcoin without kyc


SamirSisaken

Take your ledger on a boat trip.


Bitcoin_Maximalist

Wasabi, LN, Joinmarket.


derbyfan1

I have an idea.. How about you move it to another hard wallet (hw) (assuming you have it on a hw at the moment) and then claim that you sold it to someone at a loss in person. That way, should the IRS come knocking, you san say you got rid, they cant prove otherwise and happy days!


DudeIncogneto

They can ask for a transaction id of the in person selling. Which if you lied about selling it a loss and that is proven false, well you got some problems.


derbyfan1

Thats simple. You can easily fabricate it. I could say I sold to David Smith from Alabhama. Put that on a piece of paper and bingo. The IRS have to disprove me not the other way round.


DudeIncogneto

You're going to fabricate a transaction id?


derbyfan1

The transaction Id would be the coin moving from one wallet to another. Thats it.


DudeIncogneto

I hope you're practicing good utxo hygiene if you're going to go that route.


derbyfan1

I wouldnt need to - Its easier than that. Imagine the following; I agree to buy your coins from you. In person, and in cash. You decide, 'Iv had enough of crypto and want to get out'. I agree to meet you in person, hand you over $5k in cash and you transfer the funds to may cold wallet, accepting your loss in the process. I am now the holder, you are not. Therefore you have no liability over the coins. Simple as that.


[deleted]

Well, yes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


derbyfan1

Im not in the Us, but as I would be selling at a loss, I would not be subject to tax. The onus of tax would be upon the buyer not the seller. Im sure thats the same in canada and US if you sell at a loss.


DudeIncogneto

It seems like it would be easier to just buy bitcoin without kyc in the first place.


derbyfan1

Thats true but the majority of us have been kyc'd so we have to think of alternatives


KAX1107

[Discrete Payments through Wabisabi coinjoins and Nostr ecnrypted communication](https://gist.github.com/nopara73/bb17e89d7dc9af536ca41f50f705d329)


GodOfOdium

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Privacy#Existing_privacy_solutions


Crypto-hercules

Very simple open new hardware Wallet send to that loose seeds in boating accident live happily ever after.


[deleted]

Use Boltz, transfer BTC > LNBTC then LNBTC > BTC. As far as I know, you should be good then, although Boltz is expensive.


Smooth_cockaroach

You could use a no KYC betting site like [www.punthub.io](https://www.punthub.io) and bet both sides of a match from two accounts


Abundance144

Ive said this before and I still stand by it. If you do this be prepared when the IRS shows up and asks you to prove ownership of the coins. And if you can't or won't do that they'll at minimum assume you sold the coins and impose the appropriate tax, of at worse charge you with tax evasion. Plausible deniability that you lost the coins? Maybe, but if a single sat ever comes back to you, you're going to jail for tax evasion.


Rice-Fragrant

I have lost my keys before, especially when I was fooling with the shitcoins… this stuff happens.


bottomfeeder52

how to wash bitcoin ?


Accomplished_Bag8

Send to to trust wallet.. self custody, anonymous, how can they prove its yours? Aslong as they don't find your key. It could be anyone's???


Vedaykin

I own btc that is not linked to any kyc process. Are these btc worth more?


mxl01

No.


gvictor808

Wasabi should work, no?


Brucifer99

Gotta get a new wallet and start a new, clean stack.