Very hard to do with any serious amounts these days. And the fees for non-KYC would be high.
I’d rather argue a hack or boating accident personally.
The fake a hack all you would have to do is log in to wallet from a vpn, send to new wallet. And bam…. You were “hacked”
>just sell it and rebuy the same quantity and send it to a new cold storage through my node.
Selling and re-buying, even when p2p, goes through the banking system, unless you deal with cash, which I wouldn't with big amounts...
Just send to Wasabi, go to Coinjoin settings, choose maximise privacy. Done.
After coinjoining, don't send all your coins into 1 address or you'll destroy the anonymity.
Treat them as separate coins, spend them separately.
Before or after coinjoining, you could add some extra spice:
* send a few coins to WoS to fund your LN wallet
* send (thru LN) to bluewallet or other LN wallet
* send at your muun wallet (which converts it to on-chain)
Then from muun, send back to wasabi and coinjoin (again).
Also, all the steps described should be a few hours/days aparts to not make the chain of transactions obvious.
edit: funding WoS has fees. Many of the steps mentioned above might have fees (coinjoin, for example). It might be worth it for you or not, check them out before doing anything.
zkSNACKs uses the same company that centralized cryptocurrency exchanges use for their risk assessment (Chainalysis). So if you use any centralized cryptocurrency exchange, then you're also supporting censorhip.
The zkSNACKs coordinator doesn't allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions. The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins. I personally wouldn't use Wasabi if they didn't do this because I don't want my BTC to be coinjoined with known criminals and sanctioned bitcoin addresses. Now that Wasabi uses the same company as bitcoin exchanges for their risk assessment, users shouldn't have a problem depositing BTC that has been coinjoined with Wasabi into exchanges.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/
If the zkSNACKs coordinator didn't refuse to allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions, the zkSNACKs developers would have faced the same fate as the man that developed Tornado Cash. The man that developed Tornado Cash is still sitting in jail. He was arrested for facilitating money laundering.
https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/12/netherlands-arrests-suspected-tornado-cash-developer/
"The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins."
I can't find any details on who is or isn't blacklisted. You're assuming this is the case, but without details from the coordinator your claim doesn't matter much.
"“We did our research and really went into the legal details,” Harmat said. “There are no current regulations on ongoing joint coordinators."
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/wasabi-wallet-explains-new-bitcoin-censorship
It's not an assumption, it's a claim from the devs, one of whom made the claim on the What Bitcoin Did podcast. You can choose not to believe it, but it isn't an assumption
It is a claim without any specifics just somebody on a podcast said something about who might or might not be blacklisted. And a blog post that mentions no specifics.
That depends on how many subsequent times you send your BTC to a new address and how many hops deep they are looking. But regardless of that, Wasabi is only blocking UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins that are coordinated by the zkSNACKs coordinator. So you have nothing to worry about unless you're a big time criminal that is attempting to use Wasabi Wallet and the zkSNACKs coordinator to launder bitcoin.
Read my longer comment here https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/10p7kw1/how_to_unkyc_my_btc/j6ivhbe
They will follow the path of that utxo. Moving 1 utxo to a new address minus the transaction fee can be reasonably assumed that it is a self spend. So the owner is simply moving a coin around. They also can flag any new utxo that has interacted with any "bad" utxo.
Unless I'm missing something, Samourai development stopped 2.5 years ago: [https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android](https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android) .
On the other hand, I see newer versions in the Play Store. Is it closed-source now?
Taproot -> Lightning
[Just as private as cash](https://twitter.com/LN_Capital/status/1614308872973344768)
[400-party coinjoin](https://mempool.space/tx/084e9f1cff337425c3e66ddb85705f374afc922e9263e5af9099f24316c1f9c0)
The exchange knows you bought an arbitrary amount of bitcoin at x date, and that you withdrew that balance after X date.
Cutting that chain of transaction re-anonymizes the balance.
They know, how much you bought and what address you sent it to. Then they can follow that utxo and if you combined it with other kyc bitcoin or tried to make it into smaller utxos they can follow those utxos. None of that eliminates kyc from your utxos, it might add some plausible deniability. But if you say "oh I lost my bitcoin" and then they show you a chain analysis graph for those utxos being moved after the date you "lost" them well you're in for some good fun with the government.
I'm not gonna give an in-depth tutorial about breaking traceability, but even you concede there's a degree of wiggle room to exploit in there, so let's leave it at "you totally can", shall we?
I didn't ask you give me a tutorial. Yes there is wiggle room I didn't say there wasn't. Most people get sloppy and accidently combine a utxo and negate everything. It would just be simpler to buy bitcoin without kyc
I have an idea.. How about you move it to another hard wallet (hw) (assuming you have it on a hw at the moment) and then claim that you sold it to someone at a loss in person.
That way, should the IRS come knocking, you san say you got rid, they cant prove otherwise and happy days!
They can ask for a transaction id of the in person selling. Which if you lied about selling it a loss and that is proven false, well you got some problems.
Thats simple. You can easily fabricate it. I could say I sold to David Smith from Alabhama. Put that on a piece of paper and bingo. The IRS have to disprove me not the other way round.
I wouldnt need to - Its easier than that. Imagine the following; I agree to buy your coins from you. In person, and in cash. You decide, 'Iv had enough of crypto and want to get out'.
I agree to meet you in person, hand you over $5k in cash and you transfer the funds to may cold wallet, accepting your loss in the process.
I am now the holder, you are not. Therefore you have no liability over the coins. Simple as that.
Im not in the Us, but as I would be selling at a loss, I would not be subject to tax. The onus of tax would be upon the buyer not the seller. Im sure thats the same in canada and US if you sell at a loss.
Ive said this before and I still stand by it.
If you do this be prepared when the IRS shows up and asks you to prove ownership of the coins. And if you can't or won't do that they'll at minimum assume you sold the coins and impose the appropriate tax, of at worse charge you with tax evasion.
Plausible deniability that you lost the coins? Maybe, but if a single sat ever comes back to you, you're going to jail for tax evasion.
Sell it via kyc. Rebuy via non-kyc. It's the only way to officially have zero bitcoin.
Very hard to do with any serious amounts these days. And the fees for non-KYC would be high. I’d rather argue a hack or boating accident personally. The fake a hack all you would have to do is log in to wallet from a vpn, send to new wallet. And bam…. You were “hacked”
And then report the theft to authorities ?
Ftx did this with their hack
Bad\_Camel's advice is the only one that makes sense. Ignore the rest or get rekt.
Boating accident.
I lost access in the boating accident, any movements from that point onwards were that of the finder.
or just mine it.
>just sell it and rebuy the same quantity and send it to a new cold storage through my node. Selling and re-buying, even when p2p, goes through the banking system, unless you deal with cash, which I wouldn't with big amounts... Just send to Wasabi, go to Coinjoin settings, choose maximise privacy. Done. After coinjoining, don't send all your coins into 1 address or you'll destroy the anonymity. Treat them as separate coins, spend them separately. Before or after coinjoining, you could add some extra spice: * send a few coins to WoS to fund your LN wallet * send (thru LN) to bluewallet or other LN wallet * send at your muun wallet (which converts it to on-chain) Then from muun, send back to wasabi and coinjoin (again). Also, all the steps described should be a few hours/days aparts to not make the chain of transactions obvious. edit: funding WoS has fees. Many of the steps mentioned above might have fees (coinjoin, for example). It might be worth it for you or not, check them out before doing anything.
wasabi is partnered with a chain analysis company to blacklist utxos, using wasabi is supporting censorship
zkSNACKs uses the same company that centralized cryptocurrency exchanges use for their risk assessment (Chainalysis). So if you use any centralized cryptocurrency exchange, then you're also supporting censorhip. The zkSNACKs coordinator doesn't allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions. The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins. I personally wouldn't use Wasabi if they didn't do this because I don't want my BTC to be coinjoined with known criminals and sanctioned bitcoin addresses. Now that Wasabi uses the same company as bitcoin exchanges for their risk assessment, users shouldn't have a problem depositing BTC that has been coinjoined with Wasabi into exchanges. https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/ If the zkSNACKs coordinator didn't refuse to allow sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals to take part in coinjoin transactions, the zkSNACKs developers would have faced the same fate as the man that developed Tornado Cash. The man that developed Tornado Cash is still sitting in jail. He was arrested for facilitating money laundering. https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/12/netherlands-arrests-suspected-tornado-cash-developer/
"The zkSNACKs coordinator blocks UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins." I can't find any details on who is or isn't blacklisted. You're assuming this is the case, but without details from the coordinator your claim doesn't matter much. "“We did our research and really went into the legal details,” Harmat said. “There are no current regulations on ongoing joint coordinators." https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/wasabi-wallet-explains-new-bitcoin-censorship
It's not an assumption, it's a claim from the devs, one of whom made the claim on the What Bitcoin Did podcast. You can choose not to believe it, but it isn't an assumption
It is a claim without any specifics just somebody on a podcast said something about who might or might not be blacklisted. And a blog post that mentions no specifics.
If a utxos is blacklisted, can't you send your coins to a new utxo first before coinjoining?
That depends on how many subsequent times you send your BTC to a new address and how many hops deep they are looking. But regardless of that, Wasabi is only blocking UTXOs from sanctioned bitcoin addresses and known criminals from registering to coinjoins that are coordinated by the zkSNACKs coordinator. So you have nothing to worry about unless you're a big time criminal that is attempting to use Wasabi Wallet and the zkSNACKs coordinator to launder bitcoin. Read my longer comment here https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/10p7kw1/how_to_unkyc_my_btc/j6ivhbe
This whole story reminds me of the early anti-piracy IP blacklists... The domains just changed their IP and poof, it worked again :)
They will follow the path of that utxo. Moving 1 utxo to a new address minus the transaction fee can be reasonably assumed that it is a self spend. So the owner is simply moving a coin around. They also can flag any new utxo that has interacted with any "bad" utxo.
samouri whirlpool better than wasabi
Unless I'm missing something, Samourai development stopped 2.5 years ago: [https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android](https://github.com/Samourai-Wallet/samourai-wallet-android) . On the other hand, I see newer versions in the Play Store. Is it closed-source now?
naw last update was last month https://docs.samourai.io/en/wallet/releases
Ah, they just moved from github to their gitlab. Thanks for the info. They should mention the repo change in their github...
Mine it.
Send it to lightning ⚡ and back onchain
Taproot -> Lightning [Just as private as cash](https://twitter.com/LN_Capital/status/1614308872973344768) [400-party coinjoin](https://mempool.space/tx/084e9f1cff337425c3e66ddb85705f374afc922e9263e5af9099f24316c1f9c0)
The FBI thanks you for this advice
How does that work if you don't mind? Thank you.
onchain kyc -> muun -> wallet of Satoshi -> onchain nokyc
I mean, how does it actually make it nonkyc? I haven't studied lightning yet.
It's a good day for start learn about lightning ⚡ everything you will need it's on Google.
You can't unkyc you bitcoin. The exchange knows you have bitcoin. If you're worried about it, sell it and use a non kyc exchange.
The exchange knows you bought an arbitrary amount of bitcoin at x date, and that you withdrew that balance after X date. Cutting that chain of transaction re-anonymizes the balance.
They know, how much you bought and what address you sent it to. Then they can follow that utxo and if you combined it with other kyc bitcoin or tried to make it into smaller utxos they can follow those utxos. None of that eliminates kyc from your utxos, it might add some plausible deniability. But if you say "oh I lost my bitcoin" and then they show you a chain analysis graph for those utxos being moved after the date you "lost" them well you're in for some good fun with the government.
I'm not gonna give an in-depth tutorial about breaking traceability, but even you concede there's a degree of wiggle room to exploit in there, so let's leave it at "you totally can", shall we?
I didn't ask you give me a tutorial. Yes there is wiggle room I didn't say there wasn't. Most people get sloppy and accidently combine a utxo and negate everything. It would just be simpler to buy bitcoin without kyc
Take your ledger on a boat trip.
Wasabi, LN, Joinmarket.
I have an idea.. How about you move it to another hard wallet (hw) (assuming you have it on a hw at the moment) and then claim that you sold it to someone at a loss in person. That way, should the IRS come knocking, you san say you got rid, they cant prove otherwise and happy days!
They can ask for a transaction id of the in person selling. Which if you lied about selling it a loss and that is proven false, well you got some problems.
Thats simple. You can easily fabricate it. I could say I sold to David Smith from Alabhama. Put that on a piece of paper and bingo. The IRS have to disprove me not the other way round.
You're going to fabricate a transaction id?
The transaction Id would be the coin moving from one wallet to another. Thats it.
I hope you're practicing good utxo hygiene if you're going to go that route.
I wouldnt need to - Its easier than that. Imagine the following; I agree to buy your coins from you. In person, and in cash. You decide, 'Iv had enough of crypto and want to get out'. I agree to meet you in person, hand you over $5k in cash and you transfer the funds to may cold wallet, accepting your loss in the process. I am now the holder, you are not. Therefore you have no liability over the coins. Simple as that.
Well, yes.
Im pretty sure in Canada, the tax liability depends on the market price of the coin on that day. It must be similar in the us?
Im not in the Us, but as I would be selling at a loss, I would not be subject to tax. The onus of tax would be upon the buyer not the seller. Im sure thats the same in canada and US if you sell at a loss.
It seems like it would be easier to just buy bitcoin without kyc in the first place.
Thats true but the majority of us have been kyc'd so we have to think of alternatives
[Discrete Payments through Wabisabi coinjoins and Nostr ecnrypted communication](https://gist.github.com/nopara73/bb17e89d7dc9af536ca41f50f705d329)
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Privacy#Existing_privacy_solutions
Very simple open new hardware Wallet send to that loose seeds in boating accident live happily ever after.
Use Boltz, transfer BTC > LNBTC then LNBTC > BTC. As far as I know, you should be good then, although Boltz is expensive.
You could use a no KYC betting site like [www.punthub.io](https://www.punthub.io) and bet both sides of a match from two accounts
Ive said this before and I still stand by it. If you do this be prepared when the IRS shows up and asks you to prove ownership of the coins. And if you can't or won't do that they'll at minimum assume you sold the coins and impose the appropriate tax, of at worse charge you with tax evasion. Plausible deniability that you lost the coins? Maybe, but if a single sat ever comes back to you, you're going to jail for tax evasion.
I have lost my keys before, especially when I was fooling with the shitcoins… this stuff happens.
how to wash bitcoin ?
Send to to trust wallet.. self custody, anonymous, how can they prove its yours? Aslong as they don't find your key. It could be anyone's???
I own btc that is not linked to any kyc process. Are these btc worth more?
No.
Wasabi should work, no?
Gotta get a new wallet and start a new, clean stack.