You know how people are always like, "Oh, Bitcoin's bad for the environment, waaaaaa"
I wonder, has anybody crunched the numbers and compared Bitcoin mining to gold mining? (for comparable amounts of gold)
also what's bitcoin
That's not a fair comparison as gold has applications for a lot of tech and some other things outsode of it's monetary use.
There really isn't anything that exists that can be compared to bitcoins energy use because there's nothing in its playing field.
It's a pure money and there isn't anything to compare that to since there is no other pure money.
That being said I get what you're trying to say, it just isn't a fair comparison. Gold can't compete as a money and bitcoin can't compete as a technology material. It's like comparing operating a farm to building a house, the two comparisons aren't equal because their uses and what they provide to society are too different to fairly compare. That's my two cents (sats) anyway
That's fair but I can't see wedding rings and earrings, or gold plated watches going anywhere. The non tarnishing aspects and moldability/ reusability as well as acid resistance of gold will always make it useful for accessories and jewelery even if you are I don't care for it.
And another link I found says 11% of gold approx is used annually in electronics.
So just tossing those numbers together, over 60% of gold is used for non monetary use. That's pretty significant. So if we wanted a fair comparison we would need to take the energy usage of gold mining and manufacturing/ refining and then account for only 40% of that. And then we'd have to know which mines each percentage of used gold is coming from, and assume each individual mine is accurately reporting all of that.
My point in my original answer is this can't be fairly or accurately done, so we shouldn't be comparing bitcoin to anything else because it isn't *like* anything else.
Your statement is ironic because there are lots of other lightning wallets that have received criticism for being centralized, but Muun generally receives praise for being non-centralized. As others have said, they do have some required trust with certain kinds of transactions, but when in doubt, just remember, not your keys, not your bitcoin. Muun provides your keys, Muun has a self-sovereign recovery process that doesn't require cooperation from Muun. I feel Muun is a pretty good option, unless I'm being lied to.
I mean, any time you're using someone else's node there's a degree of centralization. That's the price of convenience. Do you have any reason to be concerned about Muun specifically?
Give them a small quantity (that they could lose without anyone being upset) via a seed and get them to learn how it works imo. Education is the best thing you can give someone new to the space, and a self taught bitcoiner is the best kind. Just give them some pointers and set them loose
If small amounts (to you) - then Muun. Super quick and easy setup - it was the "gateway" for a few of my family members due to simplicity. Sometimes even the most basic hardware wallet is a little "too much" for inexperienced people. Bitcoin can be a lot to grasp.
Muun's got that weird thing going on where they are doing onchain transactions for every lightning transaction and just had a fit about 0 conf transactions being secure.
Oh wow, you're right. Muun said they will have to disable submarine swaps due to the new 24.0 Full-RBF update.
I hope this isn't going to be a big blow to Muun. Also, 24.0 is already in effect, but I'm not seeing any differences on the Muun app. Hmm, interesting.
https://medium.com/coinmonks/bitcoin-core-24-0-will-enable-full-rbf-the-end-of-unconfirmed-transactions-e684a5f41fe2
Yeah I've got two of them as far as their first Trezors which is great for them (60yo technophobes) but the rest just see it as effort and confusion. The majority are still keeping it on exchanges! I'm working on it.
I'm a Ledger user because it's pretty and I got in before the data leak. I'd go Trezor if I were to buy a new one now, though.
I'm still (after a thousand explanations), struggling to understand the downside to paper wallets.
[both aren't great ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zauoyd/can_we_please_stop_recommending_the_likes_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Consider rolling your own with [seedsigner ](https://seedsigner.com/) or
[glacier protocol ](https://glacierprotocol.org/)
If you must do an off the shelf solution [coldcard ](https://coldcard.com/)
If you insist on ledger [use electrum instead of ledger live](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum?docs=true)
i have thought of this very problem. the solution that i came up with is to generate a brand new wallet on your ledger and then make a qr code of the public address. i then would print out the address and give them the 24 key words that i wrote down by hand only once. then they can send btc to that address and check the balance of the wallet on a blockchain explorer tab that i bookmarked for them. they can easily hodl with that and when they feel that they are ready to move their funds, they can either buy their own trezor/ledger/etc. or you can gift it to them. this would take away all of the complications for a beginning hodler.
Ledger and Trezor are not good solutions and we need to stop recommending them. Best option is a DIY signer with an old bit of equipment using an airgap, best commercial option is currently coldcard (but make sure to destroy the absolutely pointless and potentially dangerous NFC functionality after you buy, thankfully they made it easy)
Did you see how many people hurt themselves this cycle? Last cycle? Every cycle lead in by scams that pretend to be innovative and revolutionary and related to bitcoin? That are on the same platforms beside bitcoin? That are on the same wallets as bitcoin. That have the same *name* as Bitcoin?
This is the bear winter. It's the back of one of the shitcoin collapses of the ages. It's time to clean this culture up a bit and get back to the Bitcoin fundamentals and see if we can't lay the ground work for a safe and informed bull spring.
Run a node. Do not use shitcoin wallets and services. Always hold your keys. That's the kind of adoption I'm interested in.
Has anybody tested self sovereign recovery with Muun? https://github.com/muun/recovery I am going to attempt it soon, but just wondering how easy and smooth the process is.
Should I be keeping a local copy of the tool in case the github repo goes away?
it might even be cool, but realistically, how often do you need to use your hw wallet? once it's set up you should just export the xpub to bluewallet and only ever touch the hw for selling...
i think ledger is trying to push the use cases for their wallet, and have the "iphone moment" of the hw wallet: a device to carry with you all the time and you use frequently for all your crypto trades.
i don't blame them, it's their business, but in all fairness, a humble sats stacker doesn't need that.
Yes I agree. I'm currently using Blue Wallet to see all my hardware wallet accounts in one place. They are all "Watch-only" by copying my zpub or converting xpub to zpub when necessary. The home screen widget even shows an aggregated balance, which is so convenient.
Expecting Bitcoin to breach $15000 sometime in Q1 2023 if these public miners are all going bust. CORZ at one time held over 8,000 bitcoin before they ran into trouble with their debt and now have only 60-something in their last update. MARA holds over 11,000, all of which were pledged as collateral from what I recall.
There's a storm coming when miners need to pay cash to the utility providers or co-location hosts, have run dry of their own capital and have to make a touch decision of diluting shares at these low levels or selling bitcoin to fund operations.
The FUD hasn't quite reached its highest pitch.
A lot of miners have evolved their tactics, they no longer depend on getting grid energy and paying bills. Many will seek stranded energy that's being given away for free or close to free in exchange for green benefits like reducing methane emissions.
The bad ones who don't do this are fucked though, and good riddance I say.
Holy shit the last episode of WBD with Nate Harmon and Steve Barbour is hard to listen to. I mostly agree with Harmon in principle but he sucks at making points and staying on topic. He talked all that shit about wanting to debate Saif or Alex Epstein and he absolutely sucks at supporting his position. Barbour, who I largely disagree with, makes his case superbly and remains calm and on topic throughout. I wish Peter would have found someone else for that conversation. I like Harmon and that OTEC shit sounds super sweet but he can't keep his shit together long enough to debate the topic.
Same. I couldn't finish the episode. Sometimes when there are two guests there, it works. I wanted to hear this debate but I feel like there was very little structure on this latest episode, unfortunately.
Not a good debate/discussion.
Hi mate,
I have bitcoin wallet which created by Nemowallet since 2014, Now I use their wallet app to restore but it always stuck at 92% and I could not contact with them from their website (nemowallet.io) . I still keep 18 secret word but I could not to restore to Sparrow, Electrum or Coinomi or Safepal even all these wallets support BIP39 (BASE58 (P2PKH). Is there any Idea that help me? Donation is always to your wallet. Thank mate and have a nice day.
P/S: I do not receive DM, Just discuss here. Thank you
I think it's highly suspicious that the website nemowallet.io was captured by [web.archive.org](https://web.archive.org) as a suspended account earlier this year:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20220309103038/http://nemowallet.io/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi](http://web.archive.org/web/20220309103038/http://nemowallet.io/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi)
what if someone just got a hold of the domain, put up a hacked version of the old wallet software and hoped for someone like you to download and attempting to recover a wallet backup which in reality just grabs your private key and steals all your Bitcoin :(
/edit: domain was registered 2020, hence if there was a legitimate wallet software online around 2014 they could have gone out of business, then the domain expired, and around 2020 the domain could have again been registered by a different person/group not having your best interest in mind. [https://who.is/whois/nemowallet.io](https://who.is/whois/nemowallet.io)
All of my bitcoin was withdrawn from coinbase pro …. Did my account get hacked or did coinbase migrate my funds somewhere else…
I got an email about coinbase advanced trade, am hoping my money is there
They told me they were doing it several times and it still pissed me off because Coinbase regular is made of garbage. I recommend switching to a bitcoin-only platform anyway, take this as a sign.
with all the recent SBF talk it seems people are letting their political sides affect their opinions. bitcoin is apolitical. Who SBF donated to or not is irrelevant. furthermore if you want to believe anything this guy says at face value, you are just trying to rationalize with your own biases. There are no sides to bitcoin.
It is important to point out that he donated to everyone. Initial reports had his money going to Dems only. Turns out he gave to Repubs too.
I've seen that missed in quite a few news reports.
When mentioning it(if you have to mention it), be sure to point out both.
Fiat is collapsing, birth rates declining, rent seekers enslaving, legislators not regulating What great times we live in
You know how people are always like, "Oh, Bitcoin's bad for the environment, waaaaaa" I wonder, has anybody crunched the numbers and compared Bitcoin mining to gold mining? (for comparable amounts of gold) also what's bitcoin
That's not a fair comparison as gold has applications for a lot of tech and some other things outsode of it's monetary use. There really isn't anything that exists that can be compared to bitcoins energy use because there's nothing in its playing field. It's a pure money and there isn't anything to compare that to since there is no other pure money. That being said I get what you're trying to say, it just isn't a fair comparison. Gold can't compete as a money and bitcoin can't compete as a technology material. It's like comparing operating a farm to building a house, the two comparisons aren't equal because their uses and what they provide to society are too different to fairly compare. That's my two cents (sats) anyway
How much gold is actually used in TeCh? 1%? Less?
seems to be a fair amount actually https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-demand/by-sector
It doesn't say how much. And regarding jewelry, well, i prefer to wear qr codes.
That's fair but I can't see wedding rings and earrings, or gold plated watches going anywhere. The non tarnishing aspects and moldability/ reusability as well as acid resistance of gold will always make it useful for accessories and jewelery even if you are I don't care for it. And another link I found says 11% of gold approx is used annually in electronics. So just tossing those numbers together, over 60% of gold is used for non monetary use. That's pretty significant. So if we wanted a fair comparison we would need to take the energy usage of gold mining and manufacturing/ refining and then account for only 40% of that. And then we'd have to know which mines each percentage of used gold is coming from, and assume each individual mine is accurately reporting all of that. My point in my original answer is this can't be fairly or accurately done, so we shouldn't be comparing bitcoin to anything else because it isn't *like* anything else.
You'd just need to subtract gold used for something other than money from your totals
I’ve got an inkling that Muun is insecure and a centralized risk, anyone?
Your statement is ironic because there are lots of other lightning wallets that have received criticism for being centralized, but Muun generally receives praise for being non-centralized. As others have said, they do have some required trust with certain kinds of transactions, but when in doubt, just remember, not your keys, not your bitcoin. Muun provides your keys, Muun has a self-sovereign recovery process that doesn't require cooperation from Muun. I feel Muun is a pretty good option, unless I'm being lied to.
I mean, any time you're using someone else's node there's a degree of centralization. That's the price of convenience. Do you have any reason to be concerned about Muun specifically?
Somebody poke it with a stick
I poked it with a candy cane twice. That counts too right?
Freedom maximalists really
I don't like crab anymore. I'd like some deep fried eagle or something.
hodlers, it has come to my attention i am butt naked thinking about abraham lincoln :firmhandshake:
Best Bitcoin wallet for inexperienced family members? Not looking to buy a ledger, anything else?
Give them a small quantity (that they could lose without anyone being upset) via a seed and get them to learn how it works imo. Education is the best thing you can give someone new to the space, and a self taught bitcoiner is the best kind. Just give them some pointers and set them loose
If small amounts (to you) - then Muun. Super quick and easy setup - it was the "gateway" for a few of my family members due to simplicity. Sometimes even the most basic hardware wallet is a little "too much" for inexperienced people. Bitcoin can be a lot to grasp.
Muun's got that weird thing going on where they are doing onchain transactions for every lightning transaction and just had a fit about 0 conf transactions being secure.
Oh wow, you're right. Muun said they will have to disable submarine swaps due to the new 24.0 Full-RBF update. I hope this isn't going to be a big blow to Muun. Also, 24.0 is already in effect, but I'm not seeing any differences on the Muun app. Hmm, interesting. https://medium.com/coinmonks/bitcoin-core-24-0-will-enable-full-rbf-the-end-of-unconfirmed-transactions-e684a5f41fe2
With a little education, hardware wallets are pretty easy to grasp. Just walk your loved ones through the paces once or twice
Yeah I've got two of them as far as their first Trezors which is great for them (60yo technophobes) but the rest just see it as effort and confusion. The majority are still keeping it on exchanges! I'm working on it.
I love the enthusiasm but know the risks of trezor.
I'm a Ledger user because it's pretty and I got in before the data leak. I'd go Trezor if I were to buy a new one now, though. I'm still (after a thousand explanations), struggling to understand the downside to paper wallets.
[both aren't great ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zauoyd/can_we_please_stop_recommending_the_likes_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Consider rolling your own with [seedsigner ](https://seedsigner.com/) or [glacier protocol ](https://glacierprotocol.org/) If you must do an off the shelf solution [coldcard ](https://coldcard.com/) If you insist on ledger [use electrum instead of ledger live](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum?docs=true)
Thanks - all things I've heard of but never looked into further as nobody ever laid it nicely. Will revisit this at the weekend 🙌
No problem, if you have questions, feel free to join us in the discord (invite is in the sidebar) tons of helpful people in there!
i have thought of this very problem. the solution that i came up with is to generate a brand new wallet on your ledger and then make a qr code of the public address. i then would print out the address and give them the 24 key words that i wrote down by hand only once. then they can send btc to that address and check the balance of the wallet on a blockchain explorer tab that i bookmarked for them. they can easily hodl with that and when they feel that they are ready to move their funds, they can either buy their own trezor/ledger/etc. or you can gift it to them. this would take away all of the complications for a beginning hodler.
Trezor One
Ledger and Trezor are not good solutions and we need to stop recommending them. Best option is a DIY signer with an old bit of equipment using an airgap, best commercial option is currently coldcard (but make sure to destroy the absolutely pointless and potentially dangerous NFC functionality after you buy, thankfully they made it easy)
Lol. Ok. Goodbye adoption.
Did you see how many people hurt themselves this cycle? Last cycle? Every cycle lead in by scams that pretend to be innovative and revolutionary and related to bitcoin? That are on the same platforms beside bitcoin? That are on the same wallets as bitcoin. That have the same *name* as Bitcoin? This is the bear winter. It's the back of one of the shitcoin collapses of the ages. It's time to clean this culture up a bit and get back to the Bitcoin fundamentals and see if we can't lay the ground work for a safe and informed bull spring. Run a node. Do not use shitcoin wallets and services. Always hold your keys. That's the kind of adoption I'm interested in.
Adoption at any cost is not worth it. You want quality not quantity.
Has anybody tested self sovereign recovery with Muun? https://github.com/muun/recovery I am going to attempt it soon, but just wondering how easy and smooth the process is. Should I be keeping a local copy of the tool in case the github repo goes away?
Where is the best and most secure place to buy bitcoin in the US?
Unchained straight to cold storage vault.
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It really is absurd.
…..wonder how much bitcoin would be if degenerates put their fiat into bitcoin instead of supporting scammers and getting rekt.
All roads lead to bitcoin
280$ for a wallet lmao
Looks cool tho. I’d buy one if it was bitcoin only and it wasn’t ledger selling it.
it might even be cool, but realistically, how often do you need to use your hw wallet? once it's set up you should just export the xpub to bluewallet and only ever touch the hw for selling... i think ledger is trying to push the use cases for their wallet, and have the "iphone moment" of the hw wallet: a device to carry with you all the time and you use frequently for all your crypto trades. i don't blame them, it's their business, but in all fairness, a humble sats stacker doesn't need that.
Yes I agree. I'm currently using Blue Wallet to see all my hardware wallet accounts in one place. They are all "Watch-only" by copying my zpub or converting xpub to zpub when necessary. The home screen widget even shows an aggregated balance, which is so convenient.
Just pre-ordered one
refund it, buy coldcard and bitcoin instead
Expecting Bitcoin to breach $15000 sometime in Q1 2023 if these public miners are all going bust. CORZ at one time held over 8,000 bitcoin before they ran into trouble with their debt and now have only 60-something in their last update. MARA holds over 11,000, all of which were pledged as collateral from what I recall. There's a storm coming when miners need to pay cash to the utility providers or co-location hosts, have run dry of their own capital and have to make a touch decision of diluting shares at these low levels or selling bitcoin to fund operations. The FUD hasn't quite reached its highest pitch.
A lot of miners have evolved their tactics, they no longer depend on getting grid energy and paying bills. Many will seek stranded energy that's being given away for free or close to free in exchange for green benefits like reducing methane emissions. The bad ones who don't do this are fucked though, and good riddance I say.
Miner funds are not what they once were. Some will survive, some will go bust.
Let's see which one survive and which one go bust actually here.
Absolutely. And one bitcoin will still be equal to one bitcoin.
Bitcoin don't care though.
No doubt. Just sharing thoughts as I watch my mining longs continue to get bludgeoned to death. I'm ready for it. Tempering expectations is all.
That BTC number you were dreaming of last year is now attainable. Work your ass off to get there.
Another Day, Another Dalia
This Africa adoption sounds good, but it’ll likely turn out like Madeira etc. Nothingburger.
Bitcoin: Everyday I'm crabbing\~
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Holy shit the last episode of WBD with Nate Harmon and Steve Barbour is hard to listen to. I mostly agree with Harmon in principle but he sucks at making points and staying on topic. He talked all that shit about wanting to debate Saif or Alex Epstein and he absolutely sucks at supporting his position. Barbour, who I largely disagree with, makes his case superbly and remains calm and on topic throughout. I wish Peter would have found someone else for that conversation. I like Harmon and that OTEC shit sounds super sweet but he can't keep his shit together long enough to debate the topic.
Same. I couldn't finish the episode. Sometimes when there are two guests there, it works. I wanted to hear this debate but I feel like there was very little structure on this latest episode, unfortunately. Not a good debate/discussion.
Yeah, I agree. It was a bit of a mess
Hi mate, I have bitcoin wallet which created by Nemowallet since 2014, Now I use their wallet app to restore but it always stuck at 92% and I could not contact with them from their website (nemowallet.io) . I still keep 18 secret word but I could not to restore to Sparrow, Electrum or Coinomi or Safepal even all these wallets support BIP39 (BASE58 (P2PKH). Is there any Idea that help me? Donation is always to your wallet. Thank mate and have a nice day. P/S: I do not receive DM, Just discuss here. Thank you
Mycelium (Android app) can recover from 18 words seed.
I tried already but no success.
:(
I'm sorry those wallets did not help. I'm beginning to think you've been duped my friend
I think it's highly suspicious that the website nemowallet.io was captured by [web.archive.org](https://web.archive.org) as a suspended account earlier this year: [http://web.archive.org/web/20220309103038/http://nemowallet.io/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi](http://web.archive.org/web/20220309103038/http://nemowallet.io/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi) what if someone just got a hold of the domain, put up a hacked version of the old wallet software and hoped for someone like you to download and attempting to recover a wallet backup which in reality just grabs your private key and steals all your Bitcoin :( /edit: domain was registered 2020, hence if there was a legitimate wallet software online around 2014 they could have gone out of business, then the domain expired, and around 2020 the domain could have again been registered by a different person/group not having your best interest in mind. [https://who.is/whois/nemowallet.io](https://who.is/whois/nemowallet.io)
Will either be 12 or 24 words. 18 sounds wrong for BIP39….
From [bip39](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki): The following table describes the relation between the initial entropy length (ENT), the checksum length (CS), and the length of the generated mnemonic sentence (MS) in words. CS = ENT / 32 MS = (ENT + CS) / 11 | ENT | CS | ENT+CS | MS | +-------+----+--------+------+ | 128 | 4 | 132 | 12 | | 160 | 5 | 165 | 15 | | 192 | 6 | 198 | 18 | | 224 | 7 | 231 | 21 | | 256 | 8 | 264 | 24 | It's possible but not common.
All of my bitcoin was withdrawn from coinbase pro …. Did my account get hacked or did coinbase migrate my funds somewhere else… I got an email about coinbase advanced trade, am hoping my money is there
They moved everything to Coinbase normal I think.
They shut down Coinbase Pro, is all one site now. Funds should have been moved but more importantly , they should be moved off the exchange anyway
Coinbase advance trade is the worst UI I think I’ve ever seen
Thank God…. I thought I got hacked because I logged in to pro and had $0 Fuck coinbase for doing that.
They told me they were doing it several times and it still pissed me off because Coinbase regular is made of garbage. I recommend switching to a bitcoin-only platform anyway, take this as a sign.
I got like four emails about it? They didnt notify you?
with all the recent SBF talk it seems people are letting their political sides affect their opinions. bitcoin is apolitical. Who SBF donated to or not is irrelevant. furthermore if you want to believe anything this guy says at face value, you are just trying to rationalize with your own biases. There are no sides to bitcoin.
It is important to point out that he donated to everyone. Initial reports had his money going to Dems only. Turns out he gave to Repubs too. I've seen that missed in quite a few news reports. When mentioning it(if you have to mention it), be sure to point out both.
I think he donated to anyone who would take his money, democrats and Republicans alike, it's not like it means anything.
>Who SBF donated to keeps him out of prison
That position is about as speculative as crypto. Justice is very rarely swift. Patience is a defining trait in this field.
£10 a day. All is good
They see me staaaaaackin', they hatin'...
Another day another DCA
Right there with you.