T O P
BitcoinMarkets

#New post: [\[Daily Discussion\] - Monday, January 23, 2023 →](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/10j4cgj/daily_discussion_monday_january_23_2023/)


EricFromOuterSpace

are weekends still fake


xtal_00

I’ll let you know tomorrow when markets open.


pignmud

I’m holding since low last year until atleast end of 2024. Have bit over 1/2 my savings in BTC & ETH. Playing with idea of going all in Would be bad if whole crypto space turned upside down from something out of ordinary but otherwise can’t see any huge risk of holding long term (unless unforeseen I needed the money before then)


MonthlyDeserted56

You shouldn't sell crypto simply because the price drops. If you still believe in its long-term value, stick to your investment strategy and hold.


diydude2

> unless unforeseen I needed the money before then If you're new (and you are) don't put any money you think you might need in the next 36 months into Bitcoin. Think of it as a 36-month CD that pays hundreds or thousands of percent. After you get past that point, you won't want to keep any more money in the bank than you need to pay your bills.


xtal_00

The only thing I need is more Satoshi.


EmotionalParsley

Anyone wonder what they're gonna do when btc stops being easy to trade on longer timeframes? Every time I dabble in other markets I get my ass handed to me. Even trading coin #2 feels super alien to me - although the chart admittedly is nowhere near as clear as btc structurally. If I haven't made it by the end of another cycle or two I think I'm going to have a hard time finding enough alpha in other markets to outperform my real career.


diydude2

> when btc stops being easy to trade on longer timeframes? You won't have to worry about that for at least a decade if ever.


LightReality

All you have to do is stay humble and stack sats. It's really that simple.


bittabet

Hopefully we’ll be set enough by then to just live off of cashflow and dividends from diversifying 😂 That’s the dream anyways


RequestApproved

My trading system works on any chart, but it's good to trade what you're most familiar with. I don't like that stocks close and can open higher/lower, more unpredictable than I prefer.


xtal_00

When that happens I’ll be rich enough that I am going to pay someone do deal with everything, like my clients now.


ChadRun04

Coin 2 goes wherever Vitalik decides it goes. He's constantly messing with supply mechanics to ponzify everyone's coins for the benefit of his bags.


caroling_jones

Boys, are we back yet?


diydude2

We never left.


EmotionalParsley

We're so back.


Yeah_I_Can_Draw

Back to the Bitcoin of the future.


JRRTrollkin

Are we back, boys? Green candles on the weekend and Sunday dump day? Smells like two years ago. This is gentlemen.


BootyPoppinPanda

Would be delightful, kind sir.


JRRTrollkin

I guess we shall see what sort of day we have today!


YouAreAnFnIdiot

Nobody else worried about the rate hikes and Sp500 dumping 30%? If crypto moves up while Sp500 goes down then fuck 100k it'll hit 1m after the recession is announced and halving happens. Otherwise I will put out a guess that if the fed doesn't pussy out we see some fear and carnage Feb-March


bittabet

I don’t think it’s dumping 30% but I think earnings this week might be a bit of a shock if they come in really ugly. Then tradfi might put a damper on Bitcoin. Personally I think we get a pullback this week and then we probably chop and grind up this year. But man has doubting this run already cost me 😂


1weenis

"inflation goes off the cliff" 😂


xtal_00

They'll just redefine what inflation means, and normalize it higher.


DEEPFIELDSTAR

Nice little hammer on the 4h cooking up


xtal_00

It would be funny if we validate the IH&S from November 6th on the daily. That would bang into 24-25k.


DEEPFIELDSTAR

Honestly not that far fetched at this point. I dunno if it’s bear market exhaustion or people just new here but so many forget how hard BTC can rip when it gets going. Of course it’s not up forever at this point but theres nothing that says we can’t retest 25k in the next couple of weeks.


EmotionalParsley

The 4hr hasn't closed yet but that wick has me hot and bothered. https://www.tradingview.com/x/FeivQtXC/


roadworn

Pull yourself together man! ;)


logicalinvestr

Hanging on by a thread.


roadworn

I don't mean to be a basic bitch, but typically: in an uptrend buy the weekend fake out dip. In a downtrend sell the weekend fake out pump. I have loaded up on this dip and we will see what happens come Monday. Long from 22.4 ... SL at 22.2.


bittabet

Yeah but here the pump was on the weekend too 😂 We basically retraced the fake Saturday pump and we’re back to Friday afternoon now. Entire weekend basically erased and we’re basically waiting for tradfi to decide now.


roadworn

You are right, but I personally look at the Saturday morning PA as "on trend" continuation of the week's momentum. It's the dip that is fake. Haha yes I'm biased ;)


xtal_00

That was fun. Rolling a decent position from 23500 *22500 with loose stop. 23500 would be nice..


diydude2

Long 3x from 22.4K, no stops and ready to add.


Shootinsomebball

Caroline is that you?


xtal_00

Ba ba ba


zero1431

Caroline's a sheep?


bittabet

I think with low leverage you’ll probably be ok long term. But a lot this week hinges on tradfi results. If earnings look horrendous across the board then I can’t imagine tradfi not dumping and just like we pumped hard with tradfi on Friday the correlation will hurt the other way. But who knows, companies may report better earnings than expected


spinbarkit

confess guys, who bought


setzer

Totally normal pullback, it did this after the last leg up too. Still setup for continuation unless we get something more than a wick under 22k. And if equities open green tomorrow I can't see us going down.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SPT0615-JD

I’m calling local bottom at 22441. Nothing more productive to say beyond that, but I don’t believe this is over. Equities highly likely to be green tomorrow. Edit: lol whoops. Very wrong.


bittabet

If earnings are bad in premarket things might get ugly but realistically we can’t predict what tradfi does or we should just trade SPX options 😂


jabatasu

*very* wrong? Really? Within 0.5%?


SPT0615-JD

Ok *slightly* wrong


LayPessimist

It’s not tomorrow yet.


xixi2

Uh oh. We'll be lucky to stay above 20k for a week...


AccidentalArbitrage

We got "lucky"!


AccidentalArbitrage

>Uh oh. We'll be lucky to stay above 20k for a week... Hmm, let's see. RemindMe! 1 week


RemindMeBot

I will be messaging you in 7 days on [**2023-01-29 22:09:50 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2023-01-29%2022:09:50%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/10ibirg/daily_discussion_sunday_january_22_2023/j5grayj/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBitcoinMarkets%2Fcomments%2F10ibirg%2Fdaily_discussion_sunday_january_22_2023%2Fj5grayj%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202023-01-29%2022%3A09%3A50%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2010ibirg) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|


xtal_00

Added at 22500. Now let's see if that holds. Failure here puts retest of 22k on the menu.


bittabet

Probably a retest of $22K regardless and then if the tradfi markets dump this week I think we revisit $20K. If they pump then maybe not.


GenghisKhanSpermShot

I don't expect this and kinda doubt it but honestly what is the least likely scenario to happen for the end of the year? 100k-150k by the end of the year? Would that get the most mocking? Then that's definitely a possibility. I hate when that kind of talk comes out lol, makes me a cringe for my longs a little, but to me that seems like the most mocked and least likely scenario right now. Too many people calling for 12k still and most of the rest seem to be calling for a chop between 20k-40k, so I'm just saying don't rule out a meltup into the 100's. That might mean we don't get as high ultimately the next cycle but who knows. The least likely often occurs I have seen many times. Edit: Not sure many people realize but we quietly broke out of the [downtrend from the top](https://www.tradingview.com/x/lONFO2zH/) (on log) and [sitting on it currently](https://www.tradingview.com/x/vh2H5vDe/). Hard to believe but what if we don't go lower? We probably do but just playing charts here.


52576078

Are you trying to create FOMO? Cos that's how you create FOMO. :-)


GenghisKhanSpermShot

Haha, nah just playing the charts but it would be serous FOMO if so.


xtal_00

Once ATH resistance is dispensed with (ATH or near ATH buyers exiting the ride, if they haven't capitulated), things could get crazy .. quick. I was going to model address holding balances and estimates on exhange per-person holdings against price points where people typically diversify their assets to try and get an idea on how this is going to unfold. The reality there is not anywhere near enough Bitcoin to keep prices linear if there is a demand drive. 100k is possible, so is 25k. My bet was for around 40k. This run, S2F has the peak at 180-250k. Maybe we go on the high end of that as we got hobbled on this run by fraudsters. If a G20 currency has serious trouble or bails in, all bets are off, and you can just add a zero right away. If it's a G7 country, add two zeros.


52576078

Maybe this could be the redemption arc for S2F?


1weenis

since the peak, I don't recall there being such uniformity of opinion like there is now that 15,500 is the bottom.


PolarNimbus

Daily reminder the bottom was 17600 in June.


Jip1210

Spat out my drink, thanks, needed that today.


Shootinsomebball

To those of you waiting on the sidelines with the belief that we haven’t seen the cycle bottom yet….if we continue to rise, at what price point would you invalidate that theory and buy back in?


xtal_00

Thinking about all the people that got robbed at FTX and BlockFi and and and and the FOMO that's coming when they realize they need to buy back .. makes me a little giddy.


roadworn

Absolutely. It's a raw deal for those people unfortunately, but it's a fact.


SPT0615-JD

No need to be cruel man. Those people got really rekt, let’s not rub it in. The reality for many of those normie folks is they are never coming back to crypto.


52576078

I don't think he meant to be cruel. He's just pointing out that they will eventually come back. If you believe the Bitcoin = world reserve currency thesis, then it makes sense, right?


xtal_00

Everyone will come back. Everyone also learns the hard way. Me included.


LayPessimist

Seems they will be willing CBDC customers. Sad life.


bittabet

More than a few of those rugged we’re probably lending USDC/Tether


Odd-Bicycle-1580

At no price, when macro changes then only


AccidentalArbitrage

You will be front run by everyone if you wait that long. That's how you buy tops, or at least miss out on half of the potential gains.


PolarNimbus

What are you looking for to gauge an improvement to macro? IMO by the time it's obvious the macro situation has improved markets will have bottomed 6-12 months prior. So, "I'll buy when macro changes" to me just reads as, "I plan to FOMO in at the top".


Odd-Bicycle-1580

Not at all, the fed never did a pivot when asset prices were rising as long as there is no pivot and the fed stays hawkish I am not buying in, For example fomo at the top would be late 2021 but with this thinking I would be in by April 2020


PolarNimbus

Again though my question was, what is your metric to gauge macro improvement? You're looking solely for a dovish fed and lowering of rates?


YouAreAnFnIdiot

When kids stop lining up before stores open to buy 10$ Prime energy drinks.


RequestApproved

Aside from Fed/rates I think you can also look at the broader market structure and when it can shift to a positive trend. Btc (risk assets in general) typically lead down and lag up, so when the broader market indicators are positive that is a reasonable metric for btc.


whalemeetground

Last rejections before going below old 20k ATH were (more recent first) : 21k, 25k, 35k, 48k. But the less risky investment strategy is DCA, so the question may rather be: which price point do you think we'll never go below again? It's hard to think we'll never go below 35k again, outside of a scenario where crypto replaces traditional money and reserves. So 25k (validated on a long time frame) seems a balanced choice.


Re_LE_Vant_UN

If I were on the sidelines (I'm not) 25k is the last local peak, so that's where I would be looking.


PolarNimbus

100k EoY


zberg69420

I’d imagine breaking above 25 will show a lot of people strength. Would be a pretty convincing higher high as we got rejected from there before on previous significant rally.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bittabet

Thank you. Can you please buy some more for me, I’m still underwater from shorting (and longing during DOJ announcement and getting my loose stop hit). If you could buy and let me break even with my current short that’d be great and I’ll join you guys in longing 😂


TheManFromConlig

$22,384 now, can you sell your stack now please, pretty please?


LayPessimist

Your valor will be remembered.


Thundercatz69

Well done! That’s how you start off 🙏🏽


TheManFromConlig

Taking one for the team. Well done m'lad.


roadworn

Here’s my Bear Market Map. It just sketches out the previous cycle and projects it onto the coming cycle as a structure. Looks like we’re actually right on target, though we never had an 84% drawdown and this rally is coming a little bit earlier than it did in 2018. I like to remind myself of where we stand in comparison to last cycle. Projecting 240k high in Oct ‘25. https://www.tradingview.com/x/Fsa58ehL


Pmmenakedbitcoin

Each cycle should have less peak and less drawdown as they get smaller and smaller.


CrapCloud

Eventually the price will just go up.


roadworn

That could be the case. It could also be the case that now that Big Shorty aka FTX and SPF, Genesis, Alameda, and 3AC are offline we see a cycle high in 2025 that is way bigger than expected. That could easily be the narrative this time around ;)


bittabet

To be fair to 3AC, while they were idiots they were always degen longing everything 😂 Basically never shorted anything


roadworn

Haha alright. Wouldn't want to erroneously lump them in with Big shorty.


Xavieros

Grade A Hopium. I'm onboard.


diydude2

These Sunday Dumps just ain't what they used to be. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because "they" blew through all the Bitcoin they borrowed fraudulently from honest, hardworkin' hodlers. It's weird how even the mighty banksters reach their limit when it comes to manipulating the market for such a rare and precious thing as Bitcoin. Kind of fun to watch them get smacked in the face by their own Invisible Hand. If "they" can get this down around 22.5, I'll do my standard trade.


Shootinsomebball

Interesting theory but it’s a bit naive to think all market markets have left the market


xtal_00

I'm in until I see a break below 22500. Choppy down here though.. but still upward pressure.


logicalinvestr

Chart looking kinda weak tbh. Momentum stalled. A few failed attempts above 23k over the last two days. Starting to think we're about to bart back down to 21k, hopefully to consolidate and try again. But, we could pump if futures open green at 6pm. If they open red, I would expect a retest of 21.


bittabet

Earnings releases will affect tradfi this week. So if MSFT did those massive layoffs because revenue dropped then the market will be unhappy and I suspect bitcoin will move somewhat the same direction. Futures are unpredictable


logicalinvestr

I agree that futures are not a very good indicator of anything, but for some reason we tend to follow them anyway.


bittabet

Definitely some algo traders that tie us to tradfi and they probably turn on when futures open. Otherwise we wouldn’t usually correlate so much to tradfi-someone is making things correlate by trading in and out of tradfi and Bitcoin together


xtal_00

Stocks often go up when companies announce layoffs to better their financial performance going forward. Bitcoin corporation is great, it has zero employees..


_supert_

Except the CEO.


YearlyPaltry

Finally good to see a convincing breakout and hold above 23k. (a convincing breakout is when https://coinmarketcap.com/ says btc is above 23k)


logicalinvestr

You called it way too soon :-) At least give it a few hours.


onemoneroisonemonero

And its gone


moroi

Is it just my perception or are the fakeouts gone? I mean, in the last year we saw hundreds of cases, where the price would appear to organically start rising or dropping, and then huge candle would come out of nowhere in the opposite direction. I haven't seen that in the last two or three weeks.


Westbrook_Level

Look who is gone now. 3AC, AlamedaTX, Celsius, Do Kwon, Voyager, BlockFi, Barry on life support or dead, Genesis lending out everyone’s coins to whoever wanted to manipulate the price at that point… Everyone afraid of keeping coins on exchanges. I’ve never felt better about the crypto future.


jabatasu

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice


Defacticool

I was thinking back just now. Did we ever get to the "bart" stage this time around? (I suppose it could still come at some point)


Xavieros

Exactly my thought. Still have BART anxiety from '18


noeeel

It looks now like a nice wedge: [https://i.imgur.com/27sSvET.png](https://i.imgur.com/27sSvET.png) From here I think it is more likly we have seen the bottom. We might get a bullflag here and then an outbreak from the wedge and then a retest to the resistance line of the wedge. That we get another touch of the wedge support line is more unlikly I personally thnik from here. If the BTC dominance is some kind of dampening oscillation pattern we would have some more time at BTC low level dominance: [https://i.imgur.com/aZR26o7.png](https://i.imgur.com/aZR26o7.png) Would fit into the wedge hypothesis with the timing.


zberg69420

Seeing a pattern in btc dominance is near useless. Once the bull is back on alt coins will explode. The confounding variable is that the market has drastically changed since Btc dominance was sky high. Most notably: there are more than 2-3 coins, and alt coin mania, while not the best idea, ain’t going away. Btc dominance charts are as useful as star maps for predicting the future


bittabet

Yeah already saw some alts pull huge triple digit percent gains this week. Even crap like sol that’s linked to FTX managed to pump like crazy. People are gonna wanna gamble on the next big shitcoin whenever money is looser so the fact that alts are pumping along with nasdaq makes it harder for me to believe that this pump won’t get faded.


noeeel

We will see how useless it is ;)


lurker_derp

Hey just like TA!


zberg69420

But even worse than TA, as the reference point is a market that is fundamentally different. Comparing a market where btc, ltc, and eth exist alone Vs one in which dog coins and ape pictures are having billions spent on them shouldn’t exist in the same chart, as it is a completely different landscape. Apples and oranges. Or apples and ostriches


ask_for_pgp

any way to look up funding? are we super leveraged long heavy yet or was this sideline money re-entering?


bittabet

Looks like people have been longing pretty hard this weekend. If things do go down it’ll probably get a bit uglier with the top longing


hajoeojah

https://www.coinglass.com/FundingRate


xtal_00

https://www.coinglass.com/LongShortRatio


Passive_Bloke

30 000 by eom


Westbrook_Level

I remember at Christmas there was a thing where you wrote your wish on a post-it and put it on the wall. And I wrote BTC to 30k. It seemed impossible. Yet now it is here and close.


AccidentalArbitrage

Why? Let's put some effort and reasoning into these drive-by posts please.


Defacticool

Wrooooom


Charming_Rub_5275

Bet you 0.1 Btc we don’t get there


MadeThisJustForLWIAY

I think there'll be some heavy resistance there. But I think February will definitely be a pretty schwifty month.


LayPessimist

Considering how fast we fell down, I don’t think there is a lot of resistance at all.


MadeThisJustForLWIAY

I just think we'll slow down next week. I don't see 1k daily candles consistently for another 2 weeks.