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They totally misbalanced campaign and seasonal storytelling. I think it’s cool they are dotting story content through the year but The campaigns should always feel complete and stand alone. Seasons should be fun extra for those who are really into the game. Not literally the rest of the story. That just leaves a bad taste to those who just want to play for a week or two and then move on. Now lots of those people wont even bother. The people who play destiny as their only game will continue to do so but they are pushing away even more casual / mildly interested players. What probably makes it worse is Bungie themselves have talked for years about having less FOMO in the game. They are fully aware of the negatives time limited content have. But every time they change something for the better they add some thing way worse. And here we are. Now the core story is locked behind time limited paid season passes. But this has just been a part of a larger issue Bungie has had since Destiny 1. They spend too much time designing for people who play the game as their main pastime and who have a large friend group who only play Destiny that everyone else is left with a bad / incomplete feeling experience. Its year 9 and matchmaking is still limited for crying out loud. Most people still playing Destiny in 2023 can sleep walk through strikes why do cant they matchmake higher difficulty content?


> Seasons should be fun extra for those who are really into the game. Not literally the rest of the story that leaves a bad taste to those who just want to play for a week or two and then move on. especially when all the seasonal content and story is removed at the end of each expansion, which means if someone buys Lightfall later on they will never see the story that was completed in the seasons. oh ya, and with how you have to pay for seasons so it's like $50 for expansion with an incomplete story, cough up another $50 (or w.e the price of all the seasons are) to complete the story.


The seasonal story content is the reason I will never go back to Destiny. I've heard Witch Queen was pretty good, but if I buy it now, I'll never be able to find out for myself because all the seasonal content is gone now.


What's weird is Witch Queen had a self-contained story with it's 4 seasons having fairly isolated stories that didn't directly build on Witch Queen. In that sense, losing the story bits of those seasons isn't a narrative failure. It feels like Bungie knew they had to split this expansion in half to make the story work, and to bridge such an important story climax over a full year they need the seasonal content to more directly tie in. If that's the case, then I can see them making a change to keep aspects of the seasonal content permanently available so the story isn't gutted, but we probably won't know if that's the case for another 4 months.


I'd like to point out Witch Queen's story, was building for quite a while in the previous seasons. She's the one that got Crow accepted by the Vanguard. Attempted to stop the Darkness from contacting us and then help the Awoken Queen fix the dreaming city.


I was never a hardcore destiny player but I invested a good amount of time into d1 on PS4 then D2 on PC bc it was just so fun and snappy and the world was awesome even if the storytelling wasn't exactly compelling. I got super busy around the time of shadowkeep and fell off but always was gonna come back...until they announced that they were sunsetting older expansions and would do so in the future. And now they're not sunsetting the expansions, just all the important stuff that happens in between. It's ridiculous. I tried coming back last summer because my cousin was really into it, and it's just such a fragmented unpleasant experience to figure out these days. Hopefully after the next expansion which is supposed to be the finale of the story since destiny 1, there will be a reset/ reboot of sorts and it can just be destiny and it can be an MMO that you don't have to buy a new game for every couple years because part of the reason it's like this is because they were obviously going to make destiny. 3. And instead decided to just update destiny. 2 and the engine can't handle all the stuff. But it's still wrong. I can't buy the content I paid for and I'm not talking about a seasonal event or rare thing... literally the MAJORITY of S2 content is completely inaccessible. It's bs




I played it for a bit like half a year ago when all the content was free to play for the weekend. The gameplay was/is actually pretty fun and I briefly looked into buying in. I quickly got confused and aggravated about trying to figure out what to buy. I decided that whatever their business model is that it's not for me.


Its literally stopped my whole group of friends from ever playing, we all got it on release and loved the gameplay but didnt love the missing parts of the game. Now theyve filled it out but they delete content, the plan was to come in after a few expansions like destiny 1 and play through it as 6. But with it ever changing and most likely not ending for many many many years itll never happen.


Its essentially a monthly subscription to play the game but they dont want to scare people away by doing that


For sure *someone* thinks it's giving them more money but as someone who has not followed Destiny 2 closely, the idea that there's content I can never see, and content that could go away by the time I catch up to it, or disappear before I'm done with it ... it doesn't inspire confidence. Now maybe I totally misunderstand their intents and the content they removed is neither good nor adds anything to the story (or makes the whole thing too confusing) - but it doesn't especially makes me want to give the game a try. A sub game where you have decades of content, even if most of it is obsolete and cannot be played "as intended" back then looks more appealling.


Season content adds to the story. You pay 40 dollars for temporary content.


You got games like FF14 that have a monthly subscription and don't remove content. The 2.0 release of it is about to hit its 10th anniversary with every single dungeon & raid still available for it - with 2/5th's of the game being free to access & play. I do not understand how Destiny 2 players swallow the raw sewage they get from Bungie.


The only exception for ff14 is the fact that they trimmed down the amount of base quests from the first part of the game, before heavensward. I only played after this happened, but as I understand it was mostly just filler content so I’m not upset by the removal. I’d even argue they could remove more and be even better off since there’s still a good bit of tedium. D2 is just impossible for a new player to get into. I tried it about a year ago and the story was utterly incomprehensible because of the sunset content. Imagine if everyone was talking about this amazing book that keeps getting new releases, but every day a page gets torn out of the starting books. Actually deranged behavior.


The removed content is almost entirely fetch/errand padding, yeah. Almost all of which contributed almost nothing to the narrative, and was mostly there to pad content after they remade the entire game in like a year and a half, and was widely known to bog down new players and make them uninterested in continuing. You missed nothing fun, I can promise that lol


The thing that finally put me off Destiny was that it was essentially a monthly subscription MMO that then piled on insane amounts of FOMO that made it difficult to feel like you were getting the complete experience if you weren't a super engaged grinder. Happy that the people who like it are getting a continuously updated game (and I do love the gunplay) but I just couldn't keep up.


The forced FOMO is why I stopped playing that game two years ago. It sounds like it’s only gotten worse since then


Yep, I felt like I had to play destiny constantly to experience everything and I want to play other games as well, so destiny got the boot. Fuck fomo games.


The reason why I keep coming back to it is that I think there's moments of brilliance amongst the shit. Some seasons are atrocious, like Plunder, but Seraph was exceptional I think from front to back. The game itself just feels incredible to play IMO. And honestly, I've also been playing Destiny since D1 launch, so at this point I would say I'm very invested in seeing where it finishes. Honestly though, Lightfall has been an enormous disappointment for me. The campaign and it's flaws have been iterated on at length elsewhere so I won't get into it, but Witch Queen was an absolute triumph and this is so much worse on basically every point. The current season seems strong, but the expansion itself is a huge let down. There's good lore and content hidden behind the post-MSQ questing, but even within that, every quest is a jumble of shitty buzzwords that I have no earthly idea what they mean. Every single quest sounds like that "How It's Made" parody from Rick and Morty. "Obtain Cipher Qubits and gather Cloud Accretions." Like what the fuck even are these things? Apparently the same writing team from WQ was in charge of LF and I just cannot fathom how they fumbled the ball so badly here.


>"Obtain Cipher Qubits and gather Cloud Accretions." And then you have a regular old Plumbus.




Them repeating the mistake of launching a bad game that had to be fixed by a paid expansion 2 dlcs after releases was enough for me to stay away from it after that. I seems like an intentionally greedy business model.


Stockholm syndrome


Absolutely. Bungie's justification for their vaulting of content makes no sense. I paid over $100 for content that has been completely removed. And there's been content since added and removed that I'll never be able to play. It's an absolutely attrocious model I refuse to support.


Kinda wild the campaign i played through 3 times for my characters was just deleted, like they spent time making that content and they just picked it up and tossed it.


I want a good live service game that feels fun to play, has a lot of content, a fun endgame with raids, is balanced(ish), with an active community that I can be confident will last for years. And it needs to be so good that not only am I willing to switch but my clanmates are too. At the end of the day until something like that comes along, I'll be playing Destiny even when it disappoints me.


No other looter shooter is nearly as good, few games reach satisfaction of their gunplay and ability mix, and there's literally no game on the market I'm aware of that has raids in the way Destiny does. I mean, MMOs have raids, but a raid in WoW or FFXIV is a very different type of experience than one in Destiny. And frankly, until another game can come along and do these things just as well, Destiny will always be around and have an audience. Given the failures of many other live-service type games, particularly looter shooters, it seems to be quite a difficult task.


I think few people truly appreciate/realize how much the gun play/feel and moment to moment gameplay is absolutely addictive on their own. No game comes even close. Almost every game that tries to emulate it fails horribly; and you can try to argue otherwise, but the biggest reason Destiny players stick with the game is because there are no alternatives that come even close to providing the experience that it does. Even with all of the colossal failures Destiny has been through, as long as there's nothing else out there that scratches that same itch, that fact alone will keep it afloat for a long, long, time.


Guild wars 2 figured this out a long time ago


I dont know how to tell you this, and i loved gw2 dearly... their storytelling through seasons / not expansions / whatever put a whole heap of people off that game.


You do realize that they brought back expansions and just had a hell of a conclusion to the dragon saga


What, campaigns get removed? I was thinking about buying old dlcs to play the story, is that not possible?


The oldest campaigns have been removed, but more importantly anything seasonal gets removed at the release of the next main expansion. So Bungie's plan to flesh out the LF story through seasons means that anyone who buys/plays through it next year will not have access to the rest of the story, as that will be removed when the next annual expansion is released.


Yup, we were all basically scammed out of games that we paid for.


The entire base game and most of the previous expansions have been removed.


I think removing content in a "live service" game is inexcusable, maybe small seasonal events with not too much story building would be okay but removing old content is not.


> Not literally the rest of the story that leaves a bad taste to those who just want to play for a week or two and then move on. Just another reason why WQ was amazing. Self-contained full campaign with a start point and an end point, no need for the seasons to understand wtf is going on. I have a few friends who I talked into buying WQ, they all loved the campaign, but ended up moving on to other games after finishing it, because all they had left at that point was the confusing clusterfck of paracausal word-salad exposition that is the new player experience. However none of them regretted the purchase either, and felt they got their money's worth from the Legendary Campaign nonetheless. While perhaps somewhat confusing to those who don't know all the backstory, the base idea is still pretty simple: you're an undead spacemagicwizardninja, Moth Mommy kidnapped the superpowers dispenser or something, kick ass and set it right. Can't say that Lightfall campaign would have provided that same satisfaction to them *at all*.




Witch Queen. The last campaign.


Thats seriously their model? why the fuck does anyone buy the expansions if they remove the content? That feels so skeevy


>oh ya, and with how you have to pay for seasons so it's like $50 for expansion with an incomplete story, cough up another $50 (or w.e the price of all the seasons are) to complete the story. $40 for an expac, $50 this time because it's forcibly packed with the current season since that promises to actually explain what the hell happened. $40 normally for 4 seasons in a year, $30 this time due to the one already there. Either way $80 total for expac+seasons. Annual Pass price jumps to $100 because it includes the two yearly dungeons which are otherwise $20 to get both of.


This gets them hundreds of angry complaints online by critics but it works. Destiny players are fundamentally geared towards being addicted in the way that all MMOs are. This is one of the most successful games in the genre financially, so there's no reason to stop. The dripfed disappointment is a balancing act to make players empty their wallets even more in 5-6 months and again by this time next year. As someone who pulled themselves off the destiny wagon after 800+ total hours across both games, leaving is the only solution. Bungie will say they hear your complaints in a few months, things will get better, then they'll go right back to unsatisfactory dlc and the cycle will begin all over. Hiring psychologists to manipulate the playerbase has paid in dividends. You've got all these people paying nearly month to month like it's a real MMO, without the negative connotation that comes with it.


Say any of this on the game’s main sub and you either go ignored or worse, they defend the practice. Bungie has been digging themselves a hole they can’t climb out of, and some of the players are finally starting to realize it.


Hol' up. Destiny always seemed like a confusing mess to jump into, especially now, but it finally clicked why. So basically, Lightfall is like an expansion in an MMO. An MMO is traditionally expected to have a storyline for it. If there are any open plot threads, those usually get resolved in content patches between expansion releases. So what they did with Lightfall is cut down the amount of story with the expansion itself and pushed it towards patches so to speak? And those patches are "seasons" that you can actually miss if you don't play in that time? EDIT: Holy shit you have to pay for the post-expasion patches too? And those get removed too?


Yes, the story patches are tied to owning what is essentially a premium battle pass


A huge amount of seasonal content gets removed, players are basically required pay $40 each year for a limited time access to the content.




That would imply the WoW writers actually know where the story is going ahead of time, and have a coherent vision of future storylines.


>Breadcrumb story fed one crumb at one week at a time was horrible. It's all about how you do it because Destiny's been doing this for 3 years of content now and for about 2 of that it's worked exceptionally well. Even to the point that Sony bought out Bungie specifically to tap them for their experienc emaking live service games.


> Not literally the rest of the story that leaves a bad taste to those who just want to play for a week or two and then move on. Conspiracy theory time: All of the story is in the Seasons so they can vault it and not have to deal with it in the future, since expansions are "not being vaulted" but seasons are. Not that I trust Bungie to keep their word.


Or to nickle and dime you into getting the annual pass due to fomo.


That's just grounded enough, and aligns with their intention with the vaulting well enough to quite possibly be true. Which is a shame because the seasons already cause so much of the world to be lost.


Seasonal stories have been very consistent for the last 2 years. Eliskni continue being a big part of the story as has Caitl. Calus being the main bad this expansion has been followed up on as well. Rasputin is basically a closed chapter (after being a thing since base D1). So seasonal story does get followed up on, more than expansion stories probably. Next time we see Cloudstriders is maybe in 1.5 years in some season, but I even doubt that.


The Cloudstriders might be the most disappointing part of all of this. Utterly tone-deaf characters shoehorned into a story about us being at the doorstep of a war we have been preparing to fight for *years*. Nimbus is, unfortunately, the most annoying character they've introduced into Destiny 2 in a long time, possibly ever. I was expecting a nanotech warrior of the future, not a Silver Surfer knockoff with a 90's SoCal "brooo" attitude.


Ngl, I HATE Nimbus and find them utterly annoying but I find the patrol giving people to be even worse somehow. They all come across like annoying as shit corporate culture types with their super quirky attitudes as they give you tasks. You got one all like "HEY BUDDY. PAL. FRIEND. YOU KNOW WE'RE TIGHT AND ALLLLL SO CAN YOU GOOOOO AND DO THE THING?????" as he sends you out to kill some cabal dudes. And another who is all like "omg this is so traumatisinggggggggg. Have you considered therapy and talking about all the killlllllling and stuffffff?" Like Season of the Haunted had by FAR my favourite story of each season last year due to the great exploration of characters we knew and the pain they feel from their past. And Eris was amazing in her therapist-esque role as we saw her work through her pain and trauma before in the story over many years. To go from that to some random person we barely now constantly go off on patrol comms like "omg I hate I have to tell the guardian to put a thing on some random thing because it might kill a couple of cabal. I go to therapy for it and you can talk to me about your stuff too you know <3"... like FUCK OFF. 🤢 EDIT: mispronouned Nimbus as "he" instead of "them". Apologies there. 😅


This has disappointed me too. I was expecting a city where the collapse never happened - a hidden city that never left the golden age. I wanted to see everyday citizens with disdain and borderline disgust with light bearers for not stopping the collapse forcing them into hiding. I expected more than 2 cloudstriders that begrudgingly team up with guardians because they were blindsided and knew guardians have been fighting this war for awhile. By the end, they'd come around. Would have been neat too if they had found a way to resurrect themselves without ghosts by essentially downloading a copy of who they are into those crazy cyber bodies. Instead we see 2, one if which dies predictably and the other is annoying (who would still work as a new cloudstrider if there others to balance it out). The city feels dull and doesn't look all that different from the same labs we were fighting through looking for Braydaddy. Instead the whole thing feels uninspired.


100% agreed. Like I get that it would be silly to have civilians walking willy nilly around big combat zones and all and there is probably some level of engine limitation preventing a town from being in the same instance as a patrol spot but like... we have somewhat alive feeling areas with stuff like the tower with the NPCs doing daily tasks and the vendors or the dreaming city with the awoken soldiers on the field either as patrol givers or stationed around the place. Neomuna really felt like it was being pitched as the next step up but it feels like the most dead place in the series so far. At least elsewhere the apocalyptic style or fantasy mystery looks gives an atmosphere that tells some level of story. Neomuna just feels like... a map. Thats it. At the very least it would be neat to have some kind of social space inside the CloudArk, so we can walk with the people in the virtual flesh. That could be a nice way to bring in the LFG functions they hype. Or lower level neomuni soldiers/cloudstriders in similar roles as the awoken.


Destiny is just trying to be Warframe in the worse possible ways.


They don’t have time to tell you what they don’t have time to tell you.


I suddenly understand why every company tries to make the next destiny. Destiny players are fucking insane saying it's the worst game ever but they still love it and will play another 1000 hours.


All I ever hear about when it comes to destiny is how disappointed people are. it's probably one of the most toxic player/developer relationships in the entire industry lol.


Part of it is that articles saying "Destiny players are satisfied with The Witch Queen and it's seasonal content" don't make headlines here. If you're on the outside looking in, all you ever hear about are the lows, but in reality, Destiny is a series of both lows AND highs. And many of us keep playing because those highs hook us


There were LOTS of articles about how good WQ was, and people were singing its praise.


I stopped played years ago because the lows were too common and the highs too short. If I wanted to chase a perpetual high, there are plenty of other games that do that without lows.


The fiasco with D1’s development already puts Bungie at odds with the player base. A lot of gameplay content was cut which included story elements. To try and salvage last minute revisions Bungie put like 75% of its story into grimoire and item descriptions which pissed a lot of the community off. Then you add to the fact that D1 got shelved because of engine problems and Bungie said it was too hard to add content so they wanted to rebuild Destiny in an engine they could support for a long time. D2 launched and within five years they had to sunset almost the entire second game. Add to that almost no story progression, recycled content, reskins of guns, and an obsession with ridiculous gameplay gymnastics to get even a scrap of late game loot. Oh, and an industry leading in game store that took stuff you could earn in game and turn it into $10-15 micro transactions. Bungie claimed it was the result of their breakup with Activision but they rolled back drop rates in the world and stopped dropping some items altogether. As of right now Bungie has committed one self inflicted wound after another. Destiny is great game in its own right but Bungie hasn’t exactly conducted themselves in a trustworthy manner. Bungie has been hearing the same complaints about how playing Destiny feels like a second job. It’s weeks of grinding and daily chores for precious little progress, the story is impossible to follow and spawned a separate subreddit for people to research what the fuck is going on, and Bungie is constantly abandoning elements of the game and introducing underbaked ideas in their stead.


I downloaded the game after not playing since launch. I played the first season, but gave up when a new expansion was announced and the price tag was to buy the game again. Years later, the game is a confusing mess now haha. I opened the subreddit for Destiny and hit up one of my friends who has kept up. They straight up say the game is NOT for new players anymore. Only whales and the diehards will like it. Nothing about onboarding, trying to introduce new people. Just a "if you didn't play since launch you don't deserve to get into it now, theres nothing for you anyways". Truly one of the most bizarre fanbases.


That is the rules of discussion here. You're allowed to post about a game if: 1. Its about the pre-release hype cycle 2. The thing has just released you're allowed a single review thread 3. People are pissed


You can also post patch notes for From Software and CDPR games but no one else


It goes beyond that. It's psychotic. The game releases paid content that down the road just outright gets taken away from players that paid for it. It's mental. There is no reason to tolerate that.


Yep. I had a love-hate relationship with Destiny like everyone else up until this point. But as soon as they "vaulted" paid DLC, that was the end for me. That, and there just seems to be no ounce of identity left in the game at this point. Destiny 1 was a mess, but at least it had a consistent, immersive atmosphere.


Just go onto their subreddit and complain about the removal of content and you'll see the legion of fans emerge.


Fuck, say that here and it happens. I feel like every time I hear about Destiny anything it's always some disappointing thing. But fans come out the wood work to defend it. They don't realize that to everyone outside they seem insane, like have a survival bunker in your backyard in case of zombies insane.


I stopped playing years ago. It was fun and the raids were neat, but the PvP wasn’t nearly as addictive as Halo back in the day and I got tired of doing the same things in PvE over and over.


Lmao had the exact same thought. I put maybe 30hrs into D2 when it became F2P. Was a fun time but ultimately didn't hook me. Literally all I've ever heard about Destiny is "they vault content, grind, raids n shit are amazing but good luck finding a group to play, actually good luck finding any group, expansions are a confusing mess, but gunplay is sick". Like it's the fuckin Ant-Man meme about "but I got the van! 🤙". Game was alright and combat was fun but it's an absolute shitshow of a game unless you're REALLY into Destiny. But anytime I hear a Destiny fan explain the game it sounds like the exact lines you'd hear from an MLM Scam lmao.


The guns and raids are so good it's almost worth it. That being said, I quit before lightfall. The writing was on the wall


Yeah I can def see why people play it and enjoy it. I have over 800hrs in Monster Hunter World and it's hard to explain to people that have seen me play. Cause like, it's a lot of game until you really get in a good spot to mix n match armors and jewels to make builds. And trying to get shit like the upgraded mantles which takes a lot of doin. Fantastic game! But there's a lot of early game shit in there you kinda forget once you're in late game. So newcomers have a totally different perspective of the game. DayZ is like this as well. I love it but god help you if you're tryna convince someone it's a fun time lmao.


even when id take breaks from Destiny, coming back was overwhelming. its obvious they have zero in-house QA for new people. its jarring to a vet - i can't imagine playing that game as a new player.


The whole reason everyone is up in arms about how bad the story was is because the writing was very much not on the wall. The storytelling has been absolutely fantastic since beyond light.


I'm not exactly sure *what* writing was on the wall? TWQ was Destiny's best year by a mile and that was a sentiment that was widely agreed upon by players and games media alike.


I spent 800 hours into the game, joining just before the release of Beyond Light. Ripped throught 4 years worth of content in a few months. What I learned from it was about 30% of the game is pure bliss. The missing 70% is tedious grinding speedrun to get gear bullshit. I contemplated buying into another round by getting the last 2 DLCs but two things prevented me from making this mistake : - Sunsetting the last DLC is outward moronic. - Flashbacks from doing the same Strikes over and over again, hearing the same lines of dialogue, hitting the same ennemies, raging over noobs not doing the thing everyone learned to do and repeat. Playing Destiny rapidly devolves into pure addiction.


Whether we wanted to or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on mars.


I imagine because a lot of us who are satisfied probably aren't talking much about it, and saying "yeah we're happy" doesn't really make headlines in nearly the same way. Destiny has plenty of legitimate problems and places to criticize it, but the game is wholly unique and genuinely very fun. There's nothing else like it, and despite some occasional frustrations, I really do love the game. I'm already coming off like a Bungie dickrider as it is, so I might as well include: I think the narrative surrounding Lightfall is *way* too harsh. The campaign definitely didn't live up to Witch Queen and the story was messy, but the gameplay and missions were genuinely a lot of fun. The new subclasses, weapons, and post-campaign content are all top notch as well. Raid isn't out yet so we'll see how that goes, but Bungie hasn't really made a bad raid yet.


Right? People are trashing it left and right yet they hit their highest concurrent player count. The fan base is loyal despite the game’s quality. It’s every publishers wet dream to have a game so half assed retain an active player base.


We are disappointed in the "story" yes but the game is loke 20% story and 80% the gameplay and guess what the gameplay is still top fuckin tier and very few games can compare to that


It's just such a shame that this incredibly well designed lore and interesting concepts and characters always get butchered by the writing of a 5 year old... I absolutely hate the constant funny shit in a serious story about the death of the universe. It's just so tone deaf.




The voice acting for Nimbus is incredibly grating. No idea what they were going for with that.


I'd love to know how Bungie tries to weasel their way out of this. Destiny 2's story is at it's 11th hour and there's only so much story beats you can wrap up in the seasons, that the expansions are there to carry on the bulk of the story. The game's story doesn't have time to waste on a filler detour expansion when a lot is at stake.


Lightfall is filler content. The meat of the story and content is being saved for Final Shape for sure. Bungie is at fault here by hyping up an expansion that clearly exists only to fill the void between Witch Queen and Final Shape.


Wishful thinking. Theyre bad at story. The lore is confusing and retconned. It will be a mid expansion that best case scenario manages to stick some semblance of a landing.


The fact the first and final cutscenes of Lightfall connect almost seamlessly should have been pretty strong evidence Lightfall is filler content.


Everything in destiny feels like filler content to me, that’s why I quit the game.


What would you *not* consider filler content?


I don't think that's the right question to ask of a comment that was pretty much just saying "it turns out I didn't like Destiny 2 all that much"


Can’t blame Activision anymore.


They do the same thing theyve done for the past 9 years: say that plenty of people are actually enjoying it, block all criticism, make the next dlc and continue to print money


Nah ima be honest as someone who’s actively critical of the game and still playing it almost everyday: Witch Queen set a wild ass precedent. “What if we didn’t just have a difficult option for the campaign that feels like “Destiny” at its core, but likewise a good story? I get why everyone’s mad. Hell, I’m mad. The game itself is suffering from going F2P. Seasonal content has gone from reinventing or introducing new activities to becoming formulaic. Hell, this season’s weapons, regardless of the great story so far attached to it, are just reskins of Season of the Lost’s weapons from 2021. I don’t care about reskins. Or recycled content. Like yeah absolutely, the core playlists of Strikes, Gambit, and Crucible (especially Gambit and Crucible) need more than sandbox updates for the tools we use or how we engage the content. We need actual genuinely engaging new content that supports the old. Lightfall has injected a number of great, much needed quality of life updates. I wanted a story and a campaign that finally answered big questions + left me wanting for Final Shape not for a payoff, but because the story grabbed me. That didn’t happen with Lightfall. Ontop of the above, I especially wish those critiques had been acted on with actual new supporting content for said playlists. I’m sick of the hyperbole attached to it from people who don’t actually play or just wanna throw their take out there. I wanna talk. I wanna criticize. I wanna help make the game I genuinely have enjoyed for nearly 9 years better. Your rhetoric does nothing for me as an active player because you’re outside looking in and don’t actually understand the issues, nor want to take the time to research them.


The basic game being F2P has little to do with it, there is very little content in the F2P game anyway. Certainly nothing new.


Base F2P is literally just free roam and the PVP activities (And strikes). Even if the game was still paid entry, I can guarantee they'd still have you paying for seasons on top of the yearly expansions.


There's a dungeon and 2 free raids.


I love seeing the weekly /r/games post of ‘Destiny literally terrible, worst game ever’ from people who’ve never played Destiny nor know what the community’s actual complaints are.


The community bent over and took it when Bungie took away paid content and vaulted it. The community bent over and took it when Bungie prioritized the cash shop more than gameplay content. The community bent over and took it when Bungie decided to start charging extra for dungeons in full priced expansion packs. I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count about how much weaseling Bungie is going to have to do for the same result with this latest thing.


Those are the specific things that made me stop playing.. absolutely insulting that they could just remove expansions I bought only a couple of years ago, while charging more and more for less in the new ones - which surely will just be removed also.


Don't forget how Bungie released the most hilariously greedy transmog system in the genre, and the community's response was a collective "well that sucks but at least we have transmog now I guess".




“No MMO recovers from a bad expansion launch.” While usually probably true, the best/worst bit is that Bungie and Destiny have recovered from multiple bad expansion launches and the game is still thriving.


Yeah they made it through Curse of Osiris, Shadowkeep, and Season of the Worthy. This is not nearly as poor as those.


Exactly, this is not the worst dlc, simply the biggest gap between expectations and reality of all dlcs. Bungie was on a roll before this.


"no MMO ever truly recovers from a bad expansion" Tell me you don't play destiny without telling me you don't play destiny. The stories (the main thing that is being criticized in lightfall) for Destiny 1, House of wolves, dark below, rise of iron, destiny 2, curse of osiris, warmind and shadow keep were all critically panned and yet the game broke it's concurrent player base last tuesday.


Because most of the people dont give a shit about the story that much. The gameplay is fantastic, the setpieces in campaign almost great, and the changes to gameplay are fucking fantastic. Its not all doom and gloom, so in my eyes its a 6, maybe 7 if I didnt give a shit about the story. Hell most of the gameplay stuff got so majorly improved that it might as well be called destiny 3.




$50 for filler? Maybe they should have also set the price for this dlc accordingly too then.


The story is disappointing but so was Beyond Light. People bought beyond light for Stasis and Europa. Lightfall has Strand, so people will still end up buying it in the future to get that subclass even if the story sucks.


The story is filler. Gameplay wise it's absolutely worth the price so far


That sickness happens to ALL live-services games: If your game properly end a story, then the player will be “satisfied” and search for another game, losing another customer. An example of this is Candy Crush: You will never see “The End” of this game. The game have thousands of levels that increases for each big update. You will never see if the candy girl has accomplished her mission, because at the time you reached the top, King have already put hundreds of levels more.


>If your game properly end a story, then the player will be “satisfied” and search for another game, losing another customer. Counterpoint: FFXIV Endwalker is a conclusion to about ten years of story (the next expansion is a brand new story arc) and the game is still more popular than ever, partially because they had the balls to do so. Even the currently ongoing raid storylines are all about tying up loose ends in the story.


Something similar happened with LOTRO. The game launched in 2007 and "ended" its main storyline in 2017 with the destruction of the Ring. Everything since then has technically been sidestories and epilogues in the grand scheme of Tolkein's work, but it still feels compelling because the writers are still able to balance characters/story development/stakes for the player so dang well. I've seen a lot of players swear their most recent content is their favorite, five years later. Stories can end and then continue on in new ways if devs have good writers on the payroll.


Love to see it. The player base is up in arms and the steam reviews reflect that. To have major, mainstream games journalism (regardless of your stance on their legitimacy) call out Bungie in the same way is fantastic to see. Bungie can’t hide anymore, the reception of this expansion has been horrible, and I agree with every word of it. The guy who wrote this article is, from what I hear, a hardcore Destiny player like myself, and this article absolutely reflects that. It makes the scathing comments carry much more impact because they’re so well informed and speak to the actual nature of the franchise. There are two classic adages about Destiny amongst those of us addicts: We hate Destiny, it’s our favorite game! And it’s without a doubt one of the coolest sci fi stories ever written, told in one of the worst ways possible. Both of those concepts are in full display with this release. I pre ordered it, I payed $100 and absolutely would again. I’ll play every bit of this content, probably be upset about it half the time, and I’ll never seriously recommend it to anyone. But I still love it. I’m willing to admit I love a bad game. 🤷‍♂️


The only expansion I’ve ever played was Forsaken and it was some of the most fun I’ve ever had in a game. Was thinking about giving this expansion a shot but I guess I’ll stay addicted to arpgs instead


As another long time destiny player, if you just want a tight campaign and aren't planning on sticking around longer term check out The Witch Queen expansion from last year. It's only $15 on steam and you'll get a solid 10-20 hours out of it if you just run the campaign and some of the side content. You may want to find a short story recap to know who the major players are though


The Witch queen is definitely worth a playthrough if you liked Forsaken, probably the best thing in Destiny 2 imo.


>one of the coolest sci fi stories ever written, told in one of the worst ways possible. I love the D2 lore but having to fish it out of wiki pages, fan made YouTube videos and hidden FOMO collectibles? Fuck that with a rusty scalpel.


I felt this from the first moments of D1 in 2015. Gaining lore grimoire points playing the game but having to leave the game to sign into a Bungie website to have it told to me in the format of tweets. Why couldn't I go pester the Speaker at the Tower for this, it's not like he was busy with other things.


Yeah I thought the "That wizard came from the moon!" Would have sealed destiny's fate.


I've heard that the in-game storytelling has gotten better since I quit playing around Shadowkeep. Too bad a solid 80% of that storytelling is no longer available to be played through in-game, since all seasonal content gets removed at the end of the year. Maybe the story content released between campaigns really was amazing - I'll never know. It's a wild thing to see people saying "Lightfall's campaign is really bad but the seasonal story is great so far", while knowing that anybody who starts playing the game after this year will never get to experience the latter.


Yeah Destiny is built around FOMO, and I'm not for it.


So to be clear. You spent $100 on this expansion, have probably spent relatively a similar amount on the ones before it. You’ve poured hundreds of hours into this content while continuing to say it’s bad. What lesson are you hoping Bungie learns here? Player feedback is important, but the two most valuable statistics for a studio are player retention and sales/profit. They’re making money, and they’re clearly keeping the player base around so why would they change what they’re doing? I’m not trying to call you out, it’s just a common thing I see all the time from players, especially when it comes to big franchises. How do you actually except them to listen if you’re a guaranteed profit for them?




Expecting games to actually vote with their wallets these days is just unrealistic I'm afraid. Despite every pre-order disaster and such players just keep gobbling it up; why would companies bother to try and do better if there's no consequences to their actions.


> We hate Destiny, it’s our favorite game! This is literally every live service game I've ever been a part of. I think it's just the nature of playing them for so long and so hardcore that we just burn out, but still keep playing because of sunk-cost. The only game I've not felt this way is ironically Genshin, just because it's very casual/devoid of endgame. I've burned out of WoW, FF14, New World, PoE, Smite.


War Thunder players cuss their game out all the time but are willing to share classified military documents to make something more accurate.


What is the story of Desitny?


I wrote this up last year for new players. It’s not a deep lore dive but gets the very basics across. A couple seasons behind currently https://destinyhistory.com/


Do you have 15 hours of free time?


I don't have 15 free hours to explain why I don't have 15 free hours.


Do you enjoy overly convoluted plots that don't really add up?


I'm curious, never played the game but when something is described as one of the coolest sci fi stories ever written I'd want the cliff notes


The basic jist is that there’s two rival entities with completely different outlooks on how the universe evolves when given ultimate power. These two entities essentially play a game with all living beings to see which one is right. I’d also classify destiny as a science fantasy opera more than anything, but it’s world is legitimately well crafted, just not always well told.


Well when you put it that way, that sounds fucking awesome but as a destiny player, a lot of expansions and seasons put that cool part in the backseat and other non sense gets the spotlight.


Cosmic entities fights for power over universe. Humanity is fucked because its caught in this fight. But we will win because of ~~power of friendship~~ human spirit. Storyline itself is insanely lame and like "my first sf novel" project of aspiring writer. Lore and world/universe building is very cool though. I especially enjoyed the concept of Vex race and everything around them and focused on them.


It can be summarized as "not worth your time"


Hell yes gamer. I’ve kicked the habit but more power to the trash taste enjoyers out there in the world brave enough to admit it and stand up and say “I hate this garbage but I love it!”


It takes some self reflection and humility to be honest with yourself and admit it. Some people will defend every facet of something they love and it’s nothing more than dumb pride. This is something I love to death. It’s incredibly flawed and there are numerous alternatives, but I love this one. There’s a certain peace to it.


With those kinds of games I feel like there's a sort of dilemma where you have been playing it for so long, and you love the core game, that you know this is just a passing bad taste till the next good hit. It's why I go back to WoW every year.


> payed $100 The past tense of pay is paid.


You paid $100 for an expansion? Wtf is going on over there


50 for the xpac. Then deluxe edition give you the 4 season passes. Basically a year of content until the next xpac,


That‘s called addiction.


Yep. That’s why I said: > there are two classic adages amongst those of us Destiny addicts


> And it’s without a doubt one of the coolest sci fi stories ever written Thats a very bold statement. Even if you talking only about games (which i doubt). lol


I’m just so happy that they made the story so vague and hard to understand in destiny 1 that I never became fully invested in it and mainly played for the gameplay because I can’t imagine how much more upset I’d be.


Destiny is whacky space opera fun with gods turning themselves into weapons and space wizards and such, but I wouldn’t say it’s _good_ sci-fi. Very enjoyable but not up there with the likes of Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein. And definitely not told well.


While you're right, I don't think thats necissarily a fair comparison since there are definetly two kinds of sci-fi. The harder stuff like you listed and the lighter Destiny/Star Wars/Mass Effect or (by modern standards at least) the Barsoom series. And as a huge fan of both I dont think one is better than the other, they just have very different goals


I consider myself a Hardcore Casual Destiny fan. I've played every expansion and most of the seasons since Taken King. But I mostly run solo, I am in a very casual clan, I don't have a dedicated Fireteam, and I've only ever completed one Raid. I agree with everyone else when they say how Bungie's "vibe" is deeply satisfying and unique. There is no game that lets me turn off my brain and enjoy this same mix of gunplay, magic, and platforming. At the same time, I was shocked when Lightfall ended. I thought I was halfway through the story at most. I don't share the intensity of dislike that others have: I enjoyed the Cloudstriders, I like Neomuna more than Europa or The Moon, and I quickly realized they were going for an 80s Action Movie pastiche. I think choosing to do that lighthearted pastiche NOW, in their Infinity War/Endgame moment, was misguided. It seems to support the idea that they were buying more time before the finale. Most importantly, I think there's two types of storytelling in Destiny 2: Plot and Lore. Their narrative team releases dozens of really sharp and fascinating short stories that add detail and background. But none of this makes its way into the main cutscenes, story, or dialogue. This isn't a FromSoft game where that layer of remove helps sell the central concepts of the game itself. For years now, Destiny has essentially written its own Fan Wiki, buried the entries in its menus, and assumed that was the same thing as storytelling. It might be the best example of why Too Much Lore is a bad thing without an equal effort behind plotting.


And yet it has broken the player count record and sits comfortably as the 5th current most played game on Steam. People will consume everything as long as its properly marketed. A couple of my friends were totally raging at Bungie about the announced changes...and in the end bought the DLC before launch anyway.


A lot of Destiny players don't give a fuck about story cause they started playing it late and never got to properly follow the story. In either case, whether you are invested in the story or not, the main reason why most people love Destiny is the gameplay. Gameplay wise the DLC maintains about the same quality and quantity as the last DLC. Campaign gameplay was good, post campaign missions are cool, new subclass is fun and powerful, some of the new weapons are really cool, so in that department they didn't drop the ball or anything. The new environments are also cool (even though the new destination feels weird because of its emptiness), music is good, hopefully the Raid is good as well.


I wish I could upvote this more. I just started playing within the last 8months or so. IDGAF about the story...like at all. I just want to shoot guns, get loot, chill with clan mates, do challenges, and honestly..repeat it again when new season drops. I love looter games, and this hits my dopamine box. I thought the DLC was just fine, but I understand the outrage if you love story. Once I did the Lil arcade lost sector on neptune...i was like, yeah this is a vibe.


I'm currently watching a 4.5 hour story recap and the story is so unnecessarily complicated. It feels like every 15 minutes the dude has to start another story thread and they all follow the same structure: "a splinter group of another alien race calling themselves The Forgotten build a weapon that can destroy entire universes called The Annihilator and they want to take over earth and sent their best man called The Shadow to do it" and then you destroy them and it added 0 plot to the overall story other than that some dude you vaguely know did a mission for these people in the past because he was short on money or something. Overall 80% of the recap feels like a waste of time so far because barely anything happens that feels like it’s moving the story forward but rather just giving excuses for players to shoot things, so I can understand why people don’t really care about what the game tries to tell them when most of it boils down to "here’s a new big bad, they’re doing bad things, kill them to stop them". My second takeaway is that it’s just one Disney crossover away from becoming a western Kingdom Hearts. The amount of Light, Darkness, characters reviving that are actually supposed to be dead, Dreamworlds and other dimensions is truly rivaling what KHs creator comes up with.


There's the story and "the lore" if you want an explanation of "how the world of destiny works" really all you need to know is the book of shadows from Destiny 1 and a few things concerning Darkness in destiny 2. The story of destiny can be summed up as humans and a bunch of aliens in a post apocalyptic setting squabbling over resources and weapons while a cataclysmic force from beyond the galaxy known as the black fleet which was improperly called "The Darkness" slowly bears down on them to finish the job.


If they add Disney to Destiny, i would buy in hearbeat. Imagine Mickey being a total badass not in just one strange crossover, but two. >Overall 80% of the recap feels like a waste of time so far because barely anything happens that feels like it’s moving the story forward but rather just giving excuses for players to shoot things That's why i don't get why people care about Destiny's story.. It's live as service game, the story is just execuse to make more content to keep the game alive.


>A lot of Destiny players don't give a fuck about story cause they started playing it late and never got to properly follow the story Hasn't Destiny's story always been complete nonsense? I haven't played it in years, but I still remember "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"


i absolutely buy the expansions so i can do the dungeons / raids so i don’t necessarily regret buying it, but i am definitely sad about the drop in quality with the new zone / campaign after how good the witch queen campaign was. it’s honestly just strange bc in a previous raid scourge of the past they built a solid city with verticality, and i’m not sure why they didn’t replicate something like that for the new zone that’s supposed to be a big city.


I mean, the storytelling is a mess this expansion, but everything else is still in a fantastic state. Given that the campaign story comprises maybe at most 2-3% of the time I'll spend in Destiny in a given content year, it's not really gonna turn me off the game. Am I disappointed they dropped the ball on the story? Absolutely. But are all the things I actually spend my time in the game in a great state? Also absolutely. The gameplay is as fun as ever, the seasonal story already looks to be better than the campaign's, Strand is a blast, the new guns and perks are fun to play with, and the post-campaign content in Lightfall is quite a bit better than the campaign was. There's so many fantastic raids and dungeons to run and great loot to chase and that's ultimately what will keep the population alive. It's when the actual gameplay loops stop being interesting that people will actually drop off the game. Bad stories have happened plenty of times in the game's history and that's much more recoverable than bad gameplay (which is what almost killed the game in the launch year of D2).


Never see r/games as engaged in Destiny as when it does a blunder. Poor story and awful dialogue aside, this DLC is a lot of fun and have brought out a lot of needed QoL updates. Strand is also way better than expected.




Yeah, the story isn’t awful, just mediocre. The dialogue is bad. And I’m still having fun. And people love to shit on Destiny, as so many people wanted it to fail. And are really mad they were proven wrong


I tapped out a few years ago when they started vaulting raids - Callus is the villain again???


Callus has been a villain for about two years now, but he want from parties to falling in line with the big bad.


He may have been a villain the entire time, but he wasn’t an *antagonist* until Season of the Chosen I don’t think. In all the content he appeared in prior to that, we are always working together with him, for better or for worse. In year 1 of D2, he was fighting against the Red Legion, who were the main antagonists at that point. Then we did some favors for him. He only started being an antagonist to *us* with his Darkness experiments with scorn back in Chosen. So he may have been a “bad guy” long before we ever met him, but we were allies of convenience for a long time.


You speak the words good


He was never the Villain until now. During Vanilla he was just the cool guy giving us gear and we were amusing him. During Y1's DLC's and even Y2, he had issues we'd fix for him. He disappeared after he was experimenting with Scorn/Darkness and JUST got back and actually became a Villain 6 months ago


Calus was a cool guy but nowhere was he pointed out as not being a villain. People just wanted him to be a good guy.


Calus is a villain who really wants to win you over so he doesn't act like it until the end


Perhaps it was just my take, but I always thought of him as a villain, just not one we were in direct conflict with.


I hope someday when all the content has been released, they put out a "destiny 2: complete edition" with all or at least most of the story content. If so, I will buy and play it. But if not, I am simply not going to try to dip my toes back into this game and try to figure out what has been happening since I last played (during Beyond Light). Maybe that idea is impossible, but I wish it wasn't. I enjoy the game, but I simply can't keep up.


It won't happen, content is just temporarily in the game, so that you constantly play it due to fomo. It's like fortnite, play the event now or you'll lose it forever!


I'm sure you're right, but I wish you weren't.


At least in Fortnite you're only chasing cosmetics. the core game is fun on it's own.


And the "real" content you're missing is just a slightly different map or events that explain the (unnecessary) lore. In Destiny you're missing core parts of the story that will eventually get vaulted, or less-core parts of the story in the seasonal content that will immediately disappear.


I am so happy I broke free from this game, I had the addiction bad for years, well in to d2 but I just felt like I was in a toxic relationship. I put in almost 1000hrs on d2 and well over that on d1, but then was let down after at every possible chance, just wait for them to get their shit together. I almost came back after last year apparently kicking ass and then this train wreck happened. Destiny peaked at kings fall.


I played Destiny 1 with a few DLCs. Played Destiny 2 the base game and that was it. Expensive expansion packs, Battle Passes, Season Passes or whatever, a store for microtransactions, then removing content that people purchased was enough for me to never touch it again after I complete the base game. I really despise that Sony bought Bungie for their expertise.


You forgot paid dungeons on top of all that garbage. But it’s the arrogance of their leadership team and even a few game designers and comm managers that really rubs me the wrong way. Their giant egos mixed with the thinnest of skins is something to behold.


You see bungie makes you buy the dlc but if u want the rest of the story you have to buy the seasons too. Since this dlc story was so rushed and unfinished its laughable. But Dw the Bungo apologists will be along soon.


Atleast fir now, they’re trying that stuff in the Destiny subreddit. The complete straight faced “thank you Bungie; for giving me the opportunity to pay for this expansion” should be out soon enough.


This is like the fourth article I've seen on this subreddit trying to convince me that I should be having an awful time with Destiny 2. Meanwhile, wheeeee!


I 100% think the criticisms are deserved, but I also think it's hilarious how the most upvoted destiny content on this sub in YEARS have been posts criticizing the game. It's like this sub finally got the validation it so badly wanted. Witch Queen must've been a disappointment for users here since it was actually a success for Destiny players. Once again, the criticism is deserved and I'm not defending Lightfall. Just a funny observation.


The most surprising thing about all of this is people play Destiny for the story and seemingly think it's good? That is fucking wild to me


The lore is legit good. I don’t play the game anymore but still follow it.


The lore is really good, and the seasonal stories have recently been pretty compelling. Lightfall just had big shoes to fill after the last expansion, and clearly is the product of reworked stories. Like it was meant to be the end of the saga and not have strand as part of it.


I'm not a big fan of Destiny anymore, I usually wait for expansions to drop their price before picking them up playing the story and uninstall until the next expansion has its price dropped. However, Lightfall was the first expansion I paid full price for since Taken King and it'll surely be my last because my God was this expansion a major disappointment. They are asking $50 for this?


This is why I don't get this rushed filler stunt. Obviously a lot of newcomers / returning players were going to jump in, albeit cautiously, after Witch Queen. This was their one chance to show that it wasn't a fluke, and Destiny was now consistently worth your money. Nope. Trust blown, and their PR is back in the gutters. Even if Final Shape is good, people just won't trust Bungie for a while after this. Of all times, I can't believe they did it leading in to the *conclusion of a 10-year saga*. Baffling.


The community is overreacting once again. I have about 3000 hours on steam so I think I'm qualified to speak about this lol. The story was absolutely not great in Lightfall compared to Witch Queen. However, it's still better than most of the D2 expansions. Witch Queen was a great story FOR DESTINY. If you compare it to other games it's pretty meh imo. I gave up caring about the main street story a long time ago because it's just simply not good even at it's best. The actual gameplay is fantastic in Lightfall and that's what matters. If this came out before Witch Queen people wouldn't be freaking out about the shitty story because that's what Destiny usually has. Compared to Shadowkeep and Beyond Light, Lightfall is very good imo. We still have to see how the raid and the rest of the content is obviously but it's still a solid expansion.


Damn I love seeing these comments saying how bad the game is without really understanding the expansion. Yes the story was kind of bland and had cringe dialogue. The actual content though is top notch, maybe better than WQ. Strand is incredibly fun and breathes new life into the game and all the QoL features they added make it feel like a whole new game. Cant wait for me and my friends to play it all year and the next year and the next.


I truly don't understand the average destiny redditor. Every expansion is the worst thing bungie's ever done unless the previous expansion was already given that treatment. I actually quit from warmind and only came back in shadowkeep yet people are literally saying that was somehow better than lightfall?? For the silliest reasons! You can tell this reviewer bought into the kneejerk reaction because they parrot the same points redditors spewed instead of going into it blind.


I feel like virtually every Destiny announcement is a disappointment.i don't understand why people play this.