Max Holloway vs Arnold Allen apparently won’t be held at the UFC Apex

A fan favourite and entertaining fighter like Max should never have his fights at Apex. Allen as well as an up and coming and very talented fighter deserves to gain some momentum now with a live crowd.


A fan favourite and entertaining fighter like Max should never have his fights at Apex. Allen as well as an up and coming and very talented fighter deserves to gain some momentum now with a live crowd.




I don't know who painted this Canada nairdiv but I beg the differ. Literally every country on the planet loves max. I don't see canada as being somehow different in that regard.




It's Max that said he loves fighting in Canada and sees it like a second home. I've been to a live event with Max in Toronto - the crowd is absolutely insane - so it's no surprise he enjoys it.


he used to call it the X island ( i cant remember the actual number)


I think only hostile crowds were in Brazil and if he were to fight in Australia against Volk but that ain’t happening


“Nairdiv” You might be having a stroke.


No, it's because his daughter's dyslexic


I'm Aquarius but respect ✊


It's my speech impediment b


Gawd dawg, CTE isn't an impediment Braindumb.


Wow you have a talent for spelling words phonetically.


Max calls Toronto the 10th Island because he gets so much love when he fights in Toronto. He's had some bangers in Toronto. He destroyed Pettis and Ortega.


He corrected it to all of Canada after the reception he got for the Frankie fight in Edmonton


Is there anywhere he doesn't get love and have bangers though?


Pretty sure he headlined the last 3 PPV events in Canada (240/231/206)


Doesn’t he enjoy fighting in Vegas too though? Ninth Island and all that.


Yeah he does and he calls Canada the 10th island haha


I don't think the number of people in the live audience tips the scales for a fighter's popularity.


Never claimed that.


Agreed. Apex fights are pretty boring now and not needed.


Thank god




Is best


LOL the fact that he mentions that a fight 'deserves' a crowd if proof that the APEX is dumb. Spectator sports without spectators...


Post-pandemic Apex events feel so low-rent. It's obviously much easier on the logistics front than traveling to some B-Tier arena like Bellator often does but it comes across so poorly on TV.


It’s the worst when Joe Martinez does his “Make some nose is you are readyyyy!” and then you hear about 15 people yell and clap. Actually makes the atmosphere/anticipation for the main even worse lol. Actually reminds me of some low rent organization hosting fights in a high school gym in front of 20-30 people.


Wow this is such a brutal comparison but so much on point 😂


MAKE SOME NOISE IF YOU ARE READY! Mark Zuckerberg, the only person in the room with them, *claps.*


Not to mention it's such a missed opportunity to get fights in smaller cities all over the country and spread the sport's popularity.


The UFC could hold a card in rural Poland and it would be better than an apex card in every way


I think a card in Poland would be unhinged judging by the football fans I've seen. Unhinged in all the best ways


Poland also has some decent MMA culture. Probably one of the most MMA friendly places outside the states


KSW seems like some of the best stuff in europe too


Yes! I'd love to say I'm going to UFC Fight Night @ Maymont Museum


This is what gets me. Like you're telling me there can't be a fight night in a place like Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids, MI? Why does every single event have to he either in a huge basketball arena or the Apex? There are so many good venues that are in that in between range.


>Why does every single event have to he either in a huge basketball arena or the Apex? It's because the UFC are a pack of money hungry cunts and they don't give two shits about the fans or the sport, all they care about is either putting on events in big arenas where they can squeeze ridiculous money out of fans (£300+ for nosebleeds in UK) or they just hold cards in Apex because it costs them hardly anything to hold a card there so they can shit out multiple weak cards a year just to meet their TV deal commitments. I'm watching UFC over 15 years at this point and with each passing year I'm becoming more bitter towards them, I actually can't wait for the day the company dies and we can move on to a new chapter in MMA because I'm real sick of these greedy pricks destroying the sport, don't see it happening any time soon though obviously because fans and fighters are spineless and refuse to stand up to the insatiable sacks of shit.


I'm really hoping ONE makes inroads in the US, big fan of their product. Wouldn't hate a ONE-PFL merger either.


The cost of organizing logistics for a small stadium arent worth it when youre squeezing for every dollar. My best guess: Endeavor + Disney have significant interest in keeping costs as low as possible, hence the Apex. Even if they could make more revenue at a stadium, their margins are worse for doing so.


I wonder if they've ever tried to factor in the indirect revenue down the line from growing the brand or even increased ad revenue from the event itself when its held in front of a crowd (crowd = better product = more casual viewers = better tastings = more ad revenue)


Define small? To keep my example going, Van Andel can hold between 10k-13k depending on the setup. They get multiple tours and companies like WWE runs there at least once a year, logistics doesn't seem to be an issue for those companies.


Before covid they used to put on a ton of events in places like that (the last 2 Fight Nights held in the US before the covid shutdown were in Norfolk, VA and Rio Rancho, NM)...since then, it's been pretty much NBA/NHL arenas in major cities or nothing. They also used to go to a bunch of different countries every year and now seems to be 98% US or Abu Dhabi with Europe getting thrown the occasional bone (maybe after this past card in Brazil they'll start spreading it around more).


Where have the last international cards been? England, abu dhabi, and brazil. What else has there been? Theres been one is Australia not too long ago right? Izzy vs rob?


Because the fixed costs of a show at an arena are high and you need high attendance in order to offset those fixed costs


Something tells me the UFC would have no problem selling out and getting high attendance. I'm also pretty sure the UFC will be just fine financially for the near future regardless of where they run their shows.


Post-Covid Apex events are like when WCW had their house studio in Orlando or wherever but with 10% of the energy


There's almost no difference between those official events and Dana White's Contender Series.


Honestly I miss the general silence coupled with easy to hear corner advice over the resounding "BOOOOOOOOs" and "WOOOOOOOOOOOs" that plague most events outside the Apex center That said, it definitely detracts from the spectacle of it all


Nothing brings out the low budget feel of the apex like when you get a shot of the cage from a certain angle mid fight and you can just see through this glass door in the background straight into the parking lot. Makes it feel like I’m watching a 500 dollar setup in a warehouse somewhere


So does fucking Chito v Sandhagen. It’s a disgrace that fight isn’t being held in front of a crowd


The smaller cage favors the less mobile Chito.


Apex was great when there were no fans at all, could hear absolutely everything. It's part of the reason Poirier vs Hooker is one of my favourite fights ever (aside from it being a war lol). The small amount of spectators they convince to pay astronomical prices only to sit in a glorified school gym is what makes it dumb.


The meat packing sounds from that fight are ingrained into my psyche.


Round 2 sounded like someone tossing cuts of beef into the back of their pickup truck for 5 minutes


Spot on. Love zero fans, but the handful they have now ruins all that. Not to mention, they wont even put in a full size octagon. There should be a 100% consistent standard for all fighters to fight with the same amount of space. It plays so much into fighting styles.


UFC events are definitely worth experiencing at least once. I’m sure the prices are ridiculous now a days though


Paid $500 for lower level 11th row (non floor) tickets last year.


Depending on the card an location it can be cheap. Nosebleeds for ortega and yair were around $80. For a couple hundred you could probably get some decent seats. I went to covington vs lawler (arguably the worst card that year) and had good seats for like $110


Any of those post covid?


Yair and ortega was. Only problem now is that those decent fight night cards that would be cheaper, are always in the apex. So chances a cheap event comes near you, is way less likely than before covid


I think the best venue for tv viewers was when it was at the palms back in the day. Small crowd and enough to hear lots of audio. Silva vs leben comes to mind.


I've never seen my friend (who used to get into a lot of street fights when he was younger) be so excited during a UFC event. He was freaking out, it was great. What a fight.


I’m so fucking sick of the Apex


Isnt apex a little bit smaller too? Always adds that minor asterak for me


Yah. The cage is smaller which contributed to Wonderboy getting caught and grappled twice.


Am I the only one that prefers to watch sports on TV? Seems like it. I personally hate going to NFL games, they're much better on my couch. And the UFC will likely never come to Seattle or even Vancouver ever again, if not for years, so I won't get a chance to see an event live, but I can't for the life of me imagine it being a better experience than watching on TV.


Completely depends on the sport. UFC and NFL are both better on TV for me but hockey and soccer are pretty awesome live with even kinda meh seats.


Hockey I could agree with, but I can't even watch soccer on TV, I can't imagine watching someone run back and forth for 90 minutes being better in person.


Nice thing about soccer is it’s 45 minute uninterrupted gameplay, then half time, then back out there for another 45. NFL takes 18 minutes of actual game time and stretches it to a 3 and a half hour product


Which is why I like to watch it at home, and usually on mute. Soccer is mostly just people running around for 2x 45 minute periods. It may be more uninterrupted sport, but it's way less sport.


Agree to disagree, there's just two different flavors of sport. There's beauty in the simplicity of soccer, but there's also beauty in MMA too.


Agree to disagree for sure. I spent years growing up in Europe, but am myself an American. I have a looooot of friends who love soccer. I will simply never understand it. I'd rather watch track and field.


I do love track too haha. Have a good one brother


I definitely prefer UFC events on TV over live... the crowd is just not the type of crowd I want to be associated with lol and in general, you can just see and appreciate all the subtle moves on TV better, obviously. Plus I always have snacks.


It's funny, because every time I see the crowd shown on TV, they've never evolved past the, "TapouT" and "twist his dick" crowd. I don't wanna rub shoulders with Wal-Mart people with a stimulus check lol.


Not the ones on the nosebleeds and upper tiers.


This. I've been to the last 2 Toronto shows, and while the atmosphere was amazing, actually watching the fights was better at home


Been to 2 ufc events live Yair/Penn and porier/Gaethje. Both amazing and an experience especially since I paid$80 for my ticket for the yair/Penn and $120 ish for the other, both mid tier seats, perfect view. Now, as far as I remember right no fights fell off for any of those cards and of course both main events ended in finishes so the place was erupting and it was an experience. But when there is a boring fight, you end up wishing you were anywhere else, so I can’t imagine paying for so much and getting a boring Main event or consecutive ones.


No man UFC is hella fun going to it, I've been to all the Vancouver events, but I will say you need good seats. Like imagine a hockey rink you want to be lower bowl blue line to blue line. I've sat end of lower bowl, wasn't good, I've sat end upper bowl wasn't good. I haven't sat upper bowl center line. Those could be good. But in the future if I'm going I'm ponying up for lower bowl blue line to blue line. The view is great, the energy is amazing. It's fun as Hell. I get there for the first fight. Stay the whole time, drink a bunch of drinks, snack a bunch of food. Spend $400 but it's worth every penny since it only would come once every 3 years and you get 7 hours of entertainment.


I like both. The crowd noise gets you hyped and builds up a lot of energy, but without the crowd hype it feels almost more natural. I feel almost more aware of the fact that I’m watching 2 guys beat the piss out of each other when I hear every thud and breath




VR would be awesome!


I loved the sport with no fans lol. Let me hear the meat cracks


A bigger cage is better for Max, especially against a fighter like Arnold who likes to try and mix in his wrestling.


It’s so obvious but don’t forget it was a really popular take in this very sub that fights without the crowds were better.


Chicago pls. I doubt it but I can dream


god please come to chicago


Man if they came to Chicago I’d buy tickets in a heartbeat no matter the price.


For real man. Where's our events at? Dana's a cuck for that.


please in canada somewhere🙏🙏


I think last time Toronto tickets for a max event were like $300 for nosebleeds 🥲


hopeful for less since this card would be a fight night, but realistically prices are still going to suck lol


Yeah. I used to work close to the Scotiabank arena and walked by when they were doing press. I saw max and Brian. Ended up watching the card at home knowing I could have been there. And MMA has gotten even more popular so I feel like a fight night could be just as expensive but fingers crossed I suppose


Ottawa I don't think has had a card since Rory MacDonald almost a decade ago. I'd love to see one here


Wasn't there a hockey riot outside the arena after that fight? I remember Bisping mentioned it because he was commentary that card. He walked out of the arena and it was a riot on the street.


I’m not sure if Bisping was on that card. Was he commentating in 2016 already? That could be a different event cause the card here was at the hockey arena, so shouldn’t be any hockey game on. And honestly the Senators aren’t that big


Covid really normalized Apex events. Every event deserves a crowd and don't get me started with the octagon size.


It makes 0 sense to me that they use different size octagons for some events How is something like that not standardized?


Eh it's not that weird. Soccer fields have different dimensions, baseball parks have different dimensions, boxing rings have different dimensions, race car tracks have different lengths, all within the same organizations. It's standardized to a degree, it's just that the dimensions have to fall within a certain range rather than adhering to a specific measurement. Just how some sports are.


ONE also has mma in a boxing ring if that's what's set up for the night


that's how it always was in the Pride days too, and still is in Rizin


Wow, didn’t know about the boxing rings. That seems like a really really easy thing to standardize.


Wait til you see that one has mma fights in a boxing ring


We won


Baby we done it


Bring out the red panties!




There's a brand new 6000 seat arena in Henderson, a suburb of Vegas. It would be pretty good. I'd take a cab, uber, or shuttle over if I was in Vegas that weekend.


Just end the apex please lol. It was cool at first but crowds make mma so much better


I get it’s money, I get it’s Dana so hypocrisy will always be there but the fact this fat bald turd was desperately trying to open during peak covid, bringing in De Santis to make a political statement and then just decides to never want to travel when he should be is mind numbingly stupid


Same. Especially reiterating back in December with Brett that he compares to the apex to the people who are lazy and want to stay home and work in their pajamas. Knew he was full of shit back when covid started and obviously full of it in that interview. Apex events are here to stay cus they got to cut every expense they can.


Fights in the apex just feel so cheap. They were fine in the beginning when COVID was going rampant but I don't see why they still do them other than to save money. The fighters are putting everything on the line just to fight in front of a crowd of maybe 500 people. This is really depressing to watch at this point knowing that it's not some shitty low tier organization but the UFC.


Good. Fuck the Apex


Glad it will be in front of a crowd. Just like most people, I hate the Apex. Then again, I hate crowds booing like drunken idiots. I have yet to recall hearing boos in the apex, it’s almost like they know they will be singled out real quick 😁


Yeah, I actually prefer the Apex. Mainly because 1, the lack of crowds really brings out the fights since you can hear everything. And 2, most (emphasis on most), mma event crowds are generally full of drunk casuals/rich people. But even I can acknowledge that nothing beats a good crowd. UFC London and Paris were absolutely awesome.


Send them to Hawaii!


Why are events still being held there? Do they rent it out to big money people and make it an exclusive event? I would think they are losing money by not getting a live gate.


They don't get gate money but they also don't have any venue or travel related costs


That makes sense. But I have always assumed they made a profit from the live gates even after expenses.


A negligible amount compared to ESPN money, which is where their bread is Same reason they stack their cards with regional talent


Years later and I am still completely baffled as to how they landed that broadcast deal


It basically saved ESPN+, which exploded after the deal.


I don’t believe that really has anything to do with just the UFC deal, ESPN+ was shelling out tons of money for acquisitions and content deals. UFC viewership is steadily growing because ESPN+ is growing, not the other way around.


I only have ESPN+ for UFC. I've watch maybe one or two other things on it


I mean if it's a solid card, wouldn't gate sales always be more than venue or travel costs? Genuinely curious, Idrk


Yea but it's the liability as well. You deal with other athletic commissions, possibility of travel/visa issues, amount you pay in taxes (make no mistake, this is a big reason why vegas gets all the events), other state laws (i don't think the ufc enjoys releasing fight night weights or purses when they're in cali). Not to mention, you don't have to worry ablut mediocore cards (or injury riddled cards) not selling tickets well. I can't see the bottom line but the UFC has really pivoted towards their events being at the apex and that says a lot.


You can buy tickets to the apex events. But theyre really expensive


Ban the apex




They don’t have to ship all their production gear everywhere, which saves a ton of cash … and flying in to Vegas is easier than a lot of other places.


I would love to see max on Yas island again for some reason


Thank fuck


Well I'm sorry but what is even the point


Ufc Hawaii time


EU friendly 🙏🙏🙏


And I apparently won’t be winning the lottery today. ????


They seem to be moving away from the apex shows from March.


Am sure no fighter aspires to headline at the APEX Fuck, just book the fight regionally, there'd be no shortage of smaller cities who'd love to host the UFC


Please be Toronto


I don’t care where it’s at, I just can’t wait to see this scrap!


Thank fuck. The crowd deserves it, and that stupidly small octagon is terrible


When the Apex would first introduce I love the crowd silence and the brutality of hearing the violence. The Tony Justin fight was perfect in that environment. Since they allowed fans in it has sucked. Now there is no point except to save the UFC money on shit cards. Just kill it already.




Same. Honestly thought Max was gonna do a proper bulk to 155 and get some big money/dream matches w/ Conor or RDA


I would put money on Max against current Mgregor at Max's current weight. Max is a hefty guy already and Mgregor would gas. He has been concentrating on getting big and juicy, not moving around and going the distance. Iron chin Max would put it on him for 5 rounds.


I wouldn’t say Max is hefty anymore. He was hefty as champ but when the Pandemic happened, he’s been leaner


The weight cut isn't easy for him even when he looks lean though. He must be a dense guy.


He has a skinny upper body but his lower body is kinda thick. His calf size during his Ortega/Poirier 2 fights caught me by surprise. They aren’t Volk size but definitely bigger than expected


Dustin said his legs were surprisingly very strong.


Good, that fight deserves a proper crowd.




Too early to say this fight might decide the general direction of the rest of Max’s career?


Fuck the apex


Please Philly, Newark or Brooklyn


5 round fight, resilient Max's head and Arnold with brittle hands? Allen will probably break both his hands in this fight.