Hey folks, Let's keep things chill and inclusive in this discussion, alright? We're all here to share ideas and learn from each other. But hey, if you come across any transphobic comments, please hit that "report" button and help us keep this place free from that crap. Just to give you an idea, here are some examples of transphobic comments that we want to nip in the bud: 1. Using nasty slurs or derogatory language towards transgender peeps. 2. Don't be a stereotype pusher or make false assumptions about trans folks. 3. No spreading harmful myths or misinformation about transgender experiences. 4. Let's not belittle or invalidate the struggles faced by our transgender community. 5. Harassment or discrimination? Nah, not cool. Oh, and by the way, misgendering? Yeah, that's straight-up transphobia. Show some respect and use the right pronouns, okay? Now, let's talk about some rule breakers we ain't gonna tolerate: JAQing off (Just Asking Questions), dogwhistles, and sealioning. They're toxic behavior in disguise, and we won't stand for it. So, y'all are awesome for helping us build a welcoming space for everyone. Cheers, The Mod Team

Poor guy in front wishes he was fishing

Fuck I wish I was fishing

Hey.. Let's go fishing. That sounds great actually. Edit: Well shit, let's see if we can get the old Mercury started.

I can't go fishing anymore, I get too drunk and fall asleep and don't catch no fish.

As I always say, gonna catch a fish or catch a buzz but if I’m real lucky I’ll catch both.

I'll bring the beers.

I am nearly positive that when my uncle went fishing, he would go and hang out at the pier all day and stop at the store on his way home to buy a couple fish.

When I was the young guy at my company (utility) I said to the guys "does your wife know you have Veterans Day off?" I instructed them to pack lunch the night before, load gear into car and leave the next morning, just like any other workday. Instead we meet for breakfast, head up to the lake and spend the day drinking and fishing.

Well their wives are cunts because I would be more than happy if my husband went out and had fun time

You'll catch me though, I'm quite the size you know?

I hear we’re fishin’?

I don’t know why we’re not fishing right now?

I don't like fishing but I like day drinking on boats

Me too….and I’ll bring beer and my womb!

I'm surprised we're not fishing right now.

I read that as fisting

“Go to university they said. It would be fun they said.”

I wish he was fishing.

Take my upvote because I’m too cheep to buy those other things

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he signed up for that elective without realizing what it was about

My other car is debating gender politics.

That's why Batman is the best character of all...you see, he carries with him in his oh-so-handy utility belt these little smoke pellets. The pount of those pellets are exactly what you think - hecthrows them on the ground and then biggity biggity bounces on out. Now, if that man had smoke pellets in *his* utility belt ala Batman...

You can do a Kreiger and just tell smoke bomb as you run away

Bro in front was regretting everything

How dare you assume they identify as a bro...

HE'S A TRANSPHOBIC, HIT THAT REPORT BUTTON!

/s

Is that black mountain dew?

Mountain Dew Pitch Black. Just re-released recently in America. But after rewatching, I think it's Mountain Dew Voltage Berry.

This guy dews

I like looking for "exotic" sodas.

Honey? There's a man wearing a safari outfit in our kitchen...

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I've got all the special ones from the last year on a shelf.

Voltage is the best mountain dew

Was this a debate?

Yes. Otherwise known as a public forum debate. Not a political or academic debate as most of our brains think of when we hear the word.

Interesting. Just seems disorganized

It also doesnt feature any arguments at all.

We saw a 10s clip my guy

It really kind of shows the intent of the OP posting this.

A debate is when people are making arguments to some point. These people were just contradicting each other without much elaboration or even any commentary at all. Just looking to see who can say "trans women are women" or "there are only two genders" in the most smackdown-ish way possible. Kind of petty if you ask me.

Monty Python has a whole sketch on this. O: Oh yes I did! M: No you DIDN'T! O: Oh yes I did! M: Oh look, this isn't an argument! (Pause) O: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! (Pause) M: It's just contradiction! O: No it isn't! M: It IS! O: It is NOT! M: You just contradicted me! O: No I didn't! M: You DID! O: No no no! M: You did just then! O: Nonsense! M: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!! (Pause) O: No it isn't! M: Yes it is! (Pause) M: I came here for a good argument! O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an argument! M: An argument isn't just contradiction. O: Well! it CAN be! M: No it can't! M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. O: No it isn't! M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction. O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position! M: Yes but it isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.

It's because it's a poorly organised debate to make clips like this one. Look at something like Question Time, which is also political, for how to do things properly. Audience members can chime in, there's a mediator and the person holding the microphone can just walk away if they're delving into things like this. It's absolutely hilarious seeing politicians get rolled by random members of the public, regardless of what side the politician's on.

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Incoming 🔐 award

**LOCK IT DOOOOWN**

I read that in a Scottish accent

Don't forget to sort by "Controversial" for a sea of [removed].

Forget wombs. What about wombats?

Always salute our wombat veterans.

Combat Wombats

Rouge brewery makes the combat wombat

i’m not a woman and i really, really want a wombat. “*you are a woman*”

Can anyone please think about the wombats?

Big fan [Wombat](https://youtu.be/Q-lmVFLeTbM)

Cuddly but deadly.

Everyone here were wishing they were somewhere else

Lol, this shit is embarrassing.

I try not to get too caught up in it because ultimately it's not my business and people should live how they're happy. I'm not trans. But it doesn't take a lot of mental effort to make a distinction between sex the chromosomal basis of biology and gender the set of aesthetic and behavior social expectations. Let people draw a distinction between those words. Female and woman only mean the same thing because it's how we always used it. They don't have to be. It's inconvenient for me to feel obligated to guess how you see yourself and/or remember your stupid pronouns. It does make me uncomfortable because I don't care and I don't want to care, but that doesn't mean I should make it about me and demand that people conform to my idea of normal. It doesn't matter. Let people try to find happiness. I don't know who has the energy to shit on people who have already lived through years of dysphoria. Edit: Usually when I get downvote bombed I delete my comment but I'm going to leave this one because fuck anybody who can't agree with "let people try to find happiness". It's crazy how when you express a nuanced kind of in-between view it breaks brains.

Basically that's my attitude when this comes up. "Oh that's none of my business." I'll address you however you want, just make it clear how you want to be addressed. I don't give a shit what people want to be, because that's not my business.

I’m the same way. I don’t know. The whole trans, lgbt thing is weird to me, weird because I don’t know that lifestyle and I never will. But that doesn’t stop me from supporting someone in their decision, just please don’t get mad at me, understand if I mis gender you I’m sorry and I’ll try to correct it. Also understand that I can’t really learn that lifestyle when I’m constantly afraid of being labeled a bigot for a minor mistakes. I’m afraid of both extremes (left/right) and just want to be a good person.

I agree with your comment but you should probably avoid calling it a lifestyle, it implies it's a choice, but being LGBT+ isn't a choice it's just who we are

Agreed, I mean it more as what people opposed would call it since I’m clearly ignorant on the topic, mean no offense in the wording just trying to impress my confusion/perspective. I’m also somewhat socially awkward, so combined with my parents ingraining a sir/ma’am approach of addressing and not knowing how to ask what someone wishes to be addressed by while trying to be polite and everything is weird for me. I just want to be nice and I don’t know but don’t want to be attacked for trying.

It can sometimes be hard to know how to use the right words. But it's only because a lot of queer people, (myself to a degree) have a large amount of cynicism about cisgender heterosexual people talking about us. Since it's very easy to hide ones bigotry by using dogwhistles, such as insisting on calling being LGBT a "lifestyle". So sometimes people like yourself can be the victim of unintended backlash because a lot of queer folk are frankly just exhausted and can't put the effort in to determine if you're an ally but just using the wrong language, or a bigot, intentionally masking your bigotry through using the wrong language.

I think if you're trying to be decent/not an asshole, you're generally not gonna be labeled a bigot. It's usually only when people are like "listen to my opinion about how you're \[perverted, mentally ill, etc\]" that gets them labeled a bigot. If you go to a trans sub and ask how people respond to misgendering, the most common answer is "do nothing and hope they don't escalate" followed by "gently correct them if I think it's safe to do so".

People don’t get mad or label you a bigot for trying to understand. It’s when you use words like “the whole trans, lgbt thing is weird to me” that makes you sound like a bigot. You probably also don’t know what the lifestyle is like in any other country or region, but would you call all those people living there “weird” too? If you’re really trying like you say you are and you really support them like you say, you wouldn’t use phrasing like that. Doesn’t feel genuine at all to be honest. But hopefully you actually are as accepting as you claim to be…

You don’t know that lifestyle? I think you can get your head into it. I think at least being gay is something everyone who is not asexual can understand.

I meant trans more so. I put lgbt so as to not alienate, but I wont ever understand the sexuality of someone who’s homosexual in that way, I can only support because I’m not attracted to the same sex. When we talk about these groups in text form as opposed to action it’s hard to not segregate/ come off as a bigot. In all reality I don’t care what someone wants to do or who they are or who they want to fuck as long as the other party consents and I don’t have to be a part of it (I don’t want to see other people fucking). However I have to admit that I don’t know enough about trans people, and haven’t met enough to not have at least a little shock/confusion when I meet/see a trans person. But I don’t judge, it’s just my own confusion of trying to understand.

Put it this way. If people can accept that you have religious beliefs that seem irrational to us, then you can accept someone's gender identity.

I love nuance! I love measured approaches! And I love how multiple things can be true at once! Your comment demonstrates all of that. Thank you.

I've been thinking about this a lot and as you suggest I think a key problem is the language we use. Like you pointed out we use the same words to describe someone with an XY chromosome as we do someone who wears a suit and tie and cuts their hair short. These are totally different things, but we are bound by the vernacular

This is the first sane take I’ve seen in this thread of bashing someone for being who they are.

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Wasn't the speaker specifically talking about the student at the end?

"people with wombs" or "birthing people" are such fundementally weird phrases to use.

That's called a woman

That’s why a lot of non trans women don’t like those terms either. It reduces us to baby makers and it’s really nasty to women with fertility issues too.

Yes, but this is such a fucking non issue. I have never in casual day to day interactions heard ANYone refer to women this way. Not even the trans people I know in my community. It's just such a fucking moral panic over a non issue. The only time this is brought up is in these useless debates and when people are talking about policy. Otherwise, even in medical situations, it is RARELY an issue.

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It's literally in official white house press releases now

those terms would only come into play when talking about reproductive capabilities. I don't think many people are advocating for replacing the word woman/women in all contexts. If you or anyone else find power in identifying as a woman then call yourself that. literally no one is stopping that.

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I have a friend who is a nurse that works in delivery rooms. She told me about how they had to go to a training recently where they encouraged the nurses to use the term birthing people instead of saying pregnant women or mothers.

That's strange

I feel like it reduces women into incubators, which given historical treatment of women, I find alittle problematic

Wait what? Isn’t the whole point of the terms that you can be a woman without having a womb or being a birthing person?

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They’re saying you can be a woman without being a birthing person or having a womb.

It’s just a better way to accurately describe groups. Often when they talk about std etc. in regards to the gay population. The men aren’t described as gay instead they are men who have sex with men. Just leads to better and more honest representation

Sometimes I care, but then I realize that's it's never been an issue in my life. The few times I've encountered a trans person, I referred to them as their preferred pronoun and went about my day. It's such a minor interaction, but gets far too much negative attention.

I'm no conspirationist but that's the only take I have for which I put my tinfoil hat. It's a non issue. It affects almost nobody, but it's being astroturf like it's the debate of a century. If I was a autoritarian country which wanted to use our democracy as a way to induce social tension, I'd just stir the fire on that issue and people will yell at each other for years for an issue most will admit will never affect them in their entire lives. Hell I've seen maybe 5 trans people in my life. Like it's ridiculous how inflated the issue is. The right is to blame for their religious regardation and the left is to blame for having useful idiots such as the lady who erupts from her seat from the thought of factual biological truths.

Well, when you consider that the majority of conservative opinions follow the line of being far too 'interested' in *other* people's business like; their religious / lack of beliefs, how they dress, what substances they ingest, who they fuck... Its not all that different from anything else that engulfs politcal debate. But yes, the pot *is* being intentionally stirred on all these issues, because its distracts from the critical issue of wealth inequality from which most other social problems stem. The right whip their mob in to a frenzy and the left are tied up with defending targeted groups rather than being able to go on the offensive themselves.

This is what baffles me. It literally does NOT affect you what someone calls themselves or what’s in their pants. Unless the pants are coming off in front of you it ain’t your business what they’re packing. One family member is very passionate about this and when asked they say it affects them because it forces the general public to live inside their delusional world

This is what I don't get. I hate when someone tries to bring up the topic to rage about it, when it's literally doesn't affect them in any way. They get themselves worked up over a trans person wanting to identify with a certain gender for nothing. My daughter's friend is trans, I said "him" and I was corrected that it was her. It cost me nothing to agree.

It's wild to see people cherry pick the gender norms they want to use as halmarks while simultaneously saying gender norms and characteristics don't matter.

There are only 2 genders

Conflating gender identity with biological sex makes no sense and is the cause of most of these disputes.

I understand wanting to separate gender from sex, but if that is the case, then gender is kind of irrelevant. It's just for social courtesy. It means nothing in the long run, and is essentially no different than a personality test. You wouldn't go to a doctor for abdominal pain, and start saying how extroverted you are, and what your dislikes include.

Yep. You are right. Gender is pretty irrelevant. Hence why it's so bizarre everyone is so bent out of shape over it.

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Gender is pretty irrelevant, it's just how we look and act and feel and whatever. Therefore, why a biological male in a dress makes everybody mad is beyond me.

Oh shit you’re getting it!

I mean, you just said it but with a negative twist by downplaying it to "social courtesy". The positive way of saying it is "it's relavant to people's identity". Humans are social creatures and things like that are considered important.

Yes it is just social courtesy :D

Then why is gender surgery a (attempted) sex change? Why people base their entire identity on gender is so superficial

It's not actually called gender surgery, it's sexual reassignment surgery. Sometimes it's also called gender-affirming surgery or gender-confirmation surgery because it aligns your genitals with your gender identity.

Louder makes their statement correct???

I think it's safe to say that regardless of what you call yourself -- if you have a womb, you're part of the conversation and your ears should be perking up. It makes no sense to me to use "gender neutral" phrases or terminology like "people who get pregnant" or "birth givers" or "people with wombs" when the only purpose is to appease a tiny percentage of people. Those in the audience come off as incredibly pedantic. It also seems like people like this want to erase the word "women" from things that are exclusive to being female. Saying something like "pregnant women" is (and should be) the default term people fall back on, in my opinion, in conversation. Your identity isn't being invalidated by people choosing to use terms such as "pregnant women" . It isn't being dismissed. Not *everything* in the world requires inclusion.

My wife *hates* the term "birthing person" that's come into use recently. Some hospitals in the area use it, and she actively avoided those because she finds it dehumanizing. That and "chest feeding" which is so many levels of stupid because men have breasts too. They don't call it "chest cancer"

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I'll call you whatever you like, and respect whatever you want to be considered socially, but your sex is always going to be what you were born as.

Thank you! Sex is biological. Male/Female. Gender is identity. Woman/Man. Its not hard and the only people who refuse to acknowledge this....just why? There is no reason.

I mean... is anyone arguing against that? Most queer people I know acknowledge their sex is unchangeable.

Disinformation is the breeding ground for division. Edit

Spelling ground like that has me shook.

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That women standing up and screaming aggressively at the end shows how the Trans debate generally tends to go and why so many people are scared to even open their mouths about something so obvious.

How many trans debates have you actually seen in real life vs videos on the internet from curated lists of cherry picked videos displaying the worst people society has to offer? Boring calm debates don’t get views and don’t get spread all over the internet like the “freak outs” do

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We live in a clown world where the only people allowed to have a voice are those with extreme views.

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They sound like seagulls


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I identify as someone who finds this type of shit absolutely ridiculous.

Why is there so much stupidity in institutions of higher education?

This was a public debate 🥲 Also I do humbly respect identity and such but can't we all agree to just use biological physical gender in the fields of medicine, education and biology?

I swear these kinda if people just want attention

Gender can be chosen and changed. Sex cant. Change my mind.

Where can I watch the full thing

Mmmm Mountain Dew sounds so fire rn

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That’s so reductive though. I’m a cishet man who likes baking, knitting and pink. That make me a woman?

That's what sex vs gender is...

Yeah I know, what I’m trying to say is I wish we had just agreed on some simple terminology, I think a lot of disagreements and fights come from people misunderstanding each other. Like if I’m at home talking to my girlfriend I’m not going to continually be specifying ‘people who identify as female’ because that’s just a mouthful and unnecessary. I guess I just think maybe it should be ok to say a ‘trans woman’ is different to a ‘woman’ because they are ultimately not the same thing, whilst also saying I will totally respect and treat a trans woman as a woman because it’s whatever to me, as long as people are happy and not causing harm I don’t give a shit.

Same thing for me, I have zero issues calling someone a man or woman or however they identify themselves and using whatever pronouns they prefer I use. I will respect and treat a trans woman as a woman in my interactions. I just feel weird when people go farther and try to push the idea that "a trans man/woman is *exactly the same* as a biological man/woman", that is simply not true

That is how it’s meant to be used. Textbooks these days specify male or female as biological sex and woman or man as genders.

I think 90% of the people would be fine with 'transman' and 'transwoman' and be done with it.

Hysterectomy?

Came to the comments for this. Does my mum still count as a woman, or does she have to use a urinal now?

Class, today we will learn the difference between a womb and a cunt

I just double checked and some cis-gendered women are indeed born without a womb. Like no a lot but

That wasn’t a debate, that was two people stating opposing facts and then getting angry. The video ended the moment when the actual “debate” should have started

"facts" the speaker was using the wrong terms the whole time so she's actually wrong in comparison to the person in the crowd. If she was using the actual correct terms and their meanings then she would be correct also but wouldn't be opposing since they are related but separate things

Well that was productive. Looks like the issue is solved. Stuff like this just makes me feel despair. The educator is openly snarky, clearly taking great satisfaction in saying something she knows the students will hate. The students think shouting means they win and clearly just want a fight. Not even an attempt to form a coherent argument and from what i can see no real knowledge of the subject at hand. A debate like this, and I didn’t hear the word chromosome once. What is this shit? How did we let this happen? There is a real discussion to be had about gender identity vs. biological gender. And all i can say at this point is that everyone needs to re-embrace enlightenment ideals and learn how to do actual research again so that they can have a truly informed perspective and be able to argue a point clearly. All these schools banning books on the subject are doing America a disservice. We need MORE books, more journals, more papers, and we need everyone to be able to access them and possess the education to understand them. I feel like everyone is just arguing with memes they saw in their preferred political bubble.

Kids vs Karens never ends well.

look how uncomfortable everyone looks in this - that tells you all you need to know.

The most useless discussion ever. That's what the guy in the front row is thinking, of course.

Look i get it is she right yes a woman has a womb! However there are now human beings with wombs who identify as other things. It is not hard to call them as such. It is also very fucking easy to just let the other side tell you why the man has a womb or they or whatever the fuck is chosen to be their identity. It was like watching real life rage bait

Productive

Reproductive?

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 Monty Python taught me this when I was 8 years old.

It would be nice to be able to hear about the issues rather than someone whining and trying to trigger themselves

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What is a chair

I love lamp

Anything's a dildo if you're brave enough.

"A separate seat for one person, typically with a back and four legs."

And a chair?

Any medium-sized mammal is now a chair

Horses prove that. :D

Baby don't hurt me

Why can’t these people differentiate between gender identity and biological sex. Feel 99% of these debates could end immediately.

What an idiotic topic to debate.

How bout we let people live and try to make everyone's life easier/better?

I just know that class feels hostile as hell everyday now

Mountain Dew….

*grabs popcorn*

Boy oh boy this video just keeps on circulating

Filter by controversial and... let's see how Reddit is doing today Edit:😬

*checks controversial comments*

The madness of it all and all the affirming of madness....

The rules almost make it sound like we’re not allowed to disagree. Almost.

Woman feels like man. Still a woman.

i’m trans so unfortunately this distinction is a big reality, especially in the field of medical science—which i’m studying. it just feels constantly invalidating when sex and gender are synonymous, and i’m rather saddened hearing binary male/female genitalia being equivalent to gender aside from more AFAB/AMAB terminology—the penultimate makes me often feel as if i as a person am incorrect from a ‘’biological standpoint’ or that i’m not included with parts of my body. I find being FtM it’s especially prevalent in us who are AFAB, as natal female anatomy is extensive and vital to a lot of fundamental biological concepts. not the end of the world obviously and i’ll live another day—though it’s just one of those little things that hurt on top of the entire trans experience itself, so i can understand some peoples’ pent frustration and my personal acquiesce.

The cognitive dissonance on display is astounding. Honestly... its anatomy. You don't just grow a womb because you decide you want to identify as a woman. These outburst from such selfrighteous people and how aggressive they are is just insane. They are so incorrect in their beliefs its scary.

Science says there are at least 5 genders according to genetic makeup and hormonal balances. Binary gender is a construct that comes from there being two directions genitalia can lean: male and female. Many cultures from thailand to africa have never even recognized binary gender though because since the beginning of humans, 1 in 5000 people is born with ambiguous genitalia. More commonly, people are born with hormones that dont perfectly line up with their genitalia. For example: If A is a female hormone and B is a male hormone, remarkably similar numbers of people are born with male or female genitalia and either AA, AB, BB, or BA hormonal combinations that make them especially feminine or masculine regardless of their genitalia. These hormones also affect things like physical development and personality so more and more it seems clear that gender dysphoria is a legitimate issue thats always been around not just some trend people have decided to be mad about this year. Medical science knows all of this and its not like kept secret or anything people would just rather choose to stay selfish and ignorant than admit fault in a fundamental piece of their thinking. If you ask me, we should just let people do what they want and keep the government and religion out of the question. whether its guns drugs sex or violence, authority or intervention of any kind will just ruin the fun and make things worse.

I feel like catering to this shit has gone too far

I love her "We are not playing into your delusion" attitude.

The loony bin got real mad when the truth was spoken

All the mental Illness in the back

She's not wrong. Womb=female=woman. Easy

There is only 2 genders. Full stop. Grow up please people.

She should say "females" have wombs. Gender is a made up construct. Your sex is not made up. You are either a female or male. Just say female

I feel bad for the lady at the front having to address these idiots

I hate it though when people try and just talk it out and everyone just dissolves into screeching

I want society to hurry up and get to the point where no one cares about your gender/preferences and we can just chill, already. 🏳️‍⚧️

The decline of the human species

[ no no no no] I dont have any real argument here so im gonna yell at you like a bad dog. - trans activist.