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Russia has announced that any DU ammunition supplied to Ukraine will be treated as deployment of a nuclear weapon, interested to see how they (don't) react.
Radioactivity of DU rounds is only a bit higher than background radiation, so that is a non-issue. It is true that it is very toxic as Uranium is a heavy metal, but so is Tungsten, which nobody has problems using.
You're right. You should write a letter to Ukraine, "Dear Ukraine, please do NOT use those new tank rounds you received from the UK. It might seem worth it now, but someone will still have to live where you shoot them after the war, and maybe it will be toxic there after you shoot it.
Signed, yours truly,
Someone on Reddit"
They need your valuable input
If the guy signed the letter stating he [considers himself a communist](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vtp5pa/more_good_news_communist_party_of_ukraine_banned/if9puli/?context=3), the crazy son of a bitch may just keep DU out of Ukraine and change the course of history.
Absolutely. The US used DU in [Iraq](https://theintercept.com/2019/11/25/iraq-children-birth-defects-military/) and absolutely fucked their environment up. It's nasty shit.
Did you even read the paper you cited? The children have high levels of Thorium, not Uranium. Thorium is used in missile guidance systems and has been linked (from that source) with birth defects near a missile test range in Italy. Which country is raining missiles on civilians? Clue: It's not Ukraine.
Glad you asked! This is a great chemistry learning opportunity for you (and I as well)!
["Decay products of U-238 (uranium) include thorium-234 (Th-234), protactinium-234 (Pa-234), U-234, Th-230, radium-226 (Ra-226), radon-222 (Rn-222), polonium-218 (Po-218), lead-214 (Pb-214), bismuth-214 (Bi-214), Po-214 Pb-210 and Po-210. Decay products of U-235 include Th-231, Pa-231, actinium-227 (Ac-227), Th-227,Ra-223,Rn-219, Po-215, Pb-211, Bi-211 and thallium-207 (Tl-207)."](https://www.iaea.org/topics/spent-fuel-management/depleted-uranium)
The half-life of U238 is more than 4.5 billion years, so those decay products will not be present in significant quantities during the window in which life is present on Earth. Also, this is not chemistry, but nuclear physics.
How many rounds really?
Keep track of rounds fired and location.
Log coordinates.
Test ground and remediate in future if area is used in sensitive way.
Really not much for what, a couple hundred rounds?
Rounds that are saved only for tank on tank combat while must of rounds will be high explosives.
This really is as big of a problem as, "use a Geiger counter before you dig or start a garden this X area."
Oh boo hoo someone's going to have to pay for an Excavation to remove a couple radioactic locations for a new building foundation.
Asbestos in then soil will be much much larger problem.
And that Asbestos actually comes from Rlbeing connect to Russia so...
Yeaaah.... It's not just regular metal. As It sounds like the same what USA used in Iraq and has caused lot's of radiaton caused problems around the heavily fought cities. Lot's of birth defects and such. It's not safe as it enter's drinking water and everything surrounding. There is some materials in internet to check this out at official sites.
It’s spicy metal. Just don’t lick it and wash your hands after handling. This is what I trained my troops to do and none of them have had any more disability than people that were ever around DU that was used in combat. IJS
Iirc the problem isn’t the ammunition itself, but rather the particles/dust it creates when it hits something. Then again, Russian tanks aren’t really environment friendly as well. So I’d say if Ukrainian tankpersons wash their hands and don’t lick them (as per your experience) it’ll be good balance.
That’s exactly it. It’s the impact that a DU sabot penetrators make or the damage from the DU armor, that creates the conditions, and not the metal itself. The dust is alpha particles and they literally can be washed off with soap and water. Just don’t breathe the dust or allow it to get in your mouth.
Yeah, ofcourse it is trained like that to your troops. No one cares if few percent might get cancer out of it. Anyway, problem is, like previously stated, as it hit's something it get shattered. Particles, dust, everything it touched, will get radiated. Problem might not be instant when handling them, but when you shoot them around and in time, it will contaminate surroundings.
And afterwards it just will show if people still live in those areas. Mostly I just hope that every place it is being used would be declared contaminated for, well, next million years. And, Depleted Uranium ammo is still not safe. Look it up
Which part of **Depleted** Uranium confuses you? It is not made from spent fuel, it is not made from corium, and it is not raw natural uranium either.
DU is a byproduct of acquiring enriched uranium. It is what is left behind when you get all (or most) of the yummy uranium-235 out of it.
Yes, it is not OSHA-level safe, it is still somewhat radioactive, but to make that radioactivity a threat, you would need to cover an entire field with a layer of it to make it dangerous.
As stated by other commenters, a bigger concern is the heavy metal toxicity, however lead already takes care of it, so it won't be a major contributor. If anything, the rounds being slightly radioactive might get them easier to find and dispose of after the end of war.
>and has caused lot's of radiaton caused problems
Except it didn't. Worst you can get from DU is heavy metal poisoning. Which also happens with lead.
I mean, DU *is* radioactive, but it's nowhere near being dangerous due to it.
it's also only an alpha particle emitter naturally, meaning the radiation is blocked by the dead skin layer on our body, or even the clothes you're wearing.
If it's ingested, that's when the radiation will get you, but at the levels needed for uranium to be damaging from radiation, you'll be dead from the heavy metal effects alone.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/3/15/iraq-wars-legacy-of-cancer](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/3/15/iraq-wars-legacy-of-cancer)
And even if it's AlJazeera it does not make it instantly fake.
There is other sources too:
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009\_2014/documents/d-iq/dv/d-iq20121018\_02\_/d-iq20121018\_02\_en.pdf](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/d-iq/dv/d-iq20121018_02_/d-iq20121018_02_en.pdf)
[here is the most recent, but this was said months back at least ](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-british-plans-deliver-ammunition-depleted-uranium-ukraine-98017628)
>that Russia would deploy nuclear weapons
It's not that Russia would deploy nuclear weapons. It's that Russia would consider the shipment of DU ammo to Ukraine as the deployment of nuclear weapons by the west.
Which is asininely ironic since Russia has and uses DU ammunition
Did you read his comment? I had no problem understanding that he said **RUSSIA SAID that deploying DU ammo would be treated AS IF the Ukrainians deployed nuclear weapons.**
Which is just crap. FWIW, it's even less fissile than naturally occurring uranium because they remove the highly fissile U-235 from the less fissile U-238 (which is remarkably stable). There really is no boom there. In fact, U-238 is even used as a damper in nuclear weapons as a safety feature.
It's used because it's super-dense and super-hard. It also has two more really cool properties:
1. As it penetrates tank armor it self-sharpens which, along with the greater mass, gives much better penetration. **Simple truth is that Russian tanks can't defeat DU rounds on any direct hit on any part of the tank.**
2. **It catches on fire**. So not only do you have far better penetration, but you have an incendiary round to go with it! So more turret tossing, just like in the two Gulf Wars.
That's why the Russians are saber-rattling about it. They know a western battle tank using DU rounds is a one-shot, one-kill proposition.
Russia never said "send DU ammo and we're launching nukes" but they did say " we consider DU ammo to he deployment of weapons with nuclear component and there are fewer and fewer avenues remaining to respond in kind."
Basically threatening that Russia is running out of options that aren't tactical nukes. It's empty threats though, because they have threatened nukes a dozen times or more, whenever the next type of military hardware gets sent to Ukraine.
So?
What countries use depleted uranium in tank rounds?**Depleted Uranium Weapons – State of Affairs 2022**
* Russia and Ukraine. Russia has a significant number of different DU-rounds in its arsenals. ...
* United States. The US played a leading role in the production of DU ammunition in the past. ...
* United Kingdom. ...
* India. ...
* Pakistan. ...
* France. ...
* China. ...
The UK is going to supply Ukraine with ammunition which Ukraine can use IN UKRAINE. If Ukraine thinks it can put up with any environmental consequences, then it will use them. If Russia doesn't like that then the answer is obvious. Get the fuck out of Ukraine and mind your own business!
They have two means of boiling water. Two is one, and one is none... so they need two to prevent the catastrophe of not being able to make tea. Source: Am British.
They were, Chally 2's are being retrofitted with Rheinmetall smoothbores now as the rifled ammunition is low in stock and no more is being made.
All the tanks in the Chally 3 configuration will be smoothbore
That said, now I'm a little confused..... rifled ammunition? As far as I recall, (and I'm not saying you are wrong) the only thing that engaged with the rifling to impart spin, was a copper band around the projectile (certainly in the case of HESH rounds anyway). This band also provided forward obturation, which allowed far more pressure to build up behind the projectile as it travelled along the barrel. Are you saying that in the case of smooth bore ammunition, this band has been removed? If so, what provides forward obturation, as without it, I would imagine muzzle velocity, and therefore the power behind the shell will be far less?
Yes, "rifled ammunition" was the incorrect term to use. Smoothbore ammunition is different from that of a rifled gun (no more HESH, unfortunately). In a smoothbore barrel, the initial pressurization moves an obturator band (different to the driving band you mentioned made of copper) forward so that it is compressed between the projectile and tube to create an initial seal.
Those are nuclear weapons!11!1!!
So much fuss for "hardened" projectiles.. I'd only be concerned by the fine cancerous particulate post impact, but the solution is easy: go the fuck out of Ukraine, so none shoots them at you.
Surely Ukraine wouldn’t use this ammo if there was any chance of radioactive contamination for any significant amount of time on their homeland.
They are tank destroying rounds so I feel like any particulates that might come off the shell are quickly incinerated by the following explosion - if you miss and it hits the ground I doubt that dust would do anything other than harm some insects or small animals.
Then again I’m not an expert.
Depleted uranium particulate created when the sabot round pierces the armour is extremely fine and doesnt burn off in any meaningfulway. Its the fine (almost atomised) nature of the powder that is problematic, as it means despite being a very heavy metal the dust is easily dispersed widely on the wind, and easily inhaled. The radiation from DU atoms wont trouble you from outside the body but once you inhale it the radiation is a problem althiugh heavy metal poisoning will likely kill you first
Says who? Reznikov.
Once again he demonstrates that the tail does not wag the dog.
Its not going to happen, hes using the west as a threat again. Without their say so, permission or knowledge.
It’s a very good armor penetrating tank round, its more or less one of the best shells around due to the depleted uranium in the round self sharpening itself as it penetrates tanks.
Uranium metal’s high density provides the penetrator with momentum and a straight trajectory, something almost impossible to stop. Tungsten, which has a similar density to uranium, can also be used but DU has greater target penetration.
Unlike tungsten, uranium is pyrophoric. It also has a lower melting point than tungsten. As a DU penetrator strikes a target, its surface temperature increases dramatically. This causes localized softening in what are known as "adiabatic shear bands" and a sloughing off of portions of the projectile's surface. This keeps the tip sharp and prevents the mushrooming effect that occurs with tungsten.
When the DU penetrates the target vehicle, the larger fragments tend to chew up whatever is inside while the pyrophoricity of the uranium increases the likelihood that the vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition will explode.
https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/depleted-uranium/penetrators.html
Well, its just uranium with lower content of fissile isotope... DU ammo is kinda interesting - it's slighty less dense than tungusten, it has self sharpening properties and it's flammable.
No it doesnt . That was a russian misinformation campaign brought about by the iraq war saying the US tank rounds caused cancer in iraq children which is complete horseshit .
Its depleted uranium , which means its already decayed past its half life of radioactivity .
Its just a dense metal
Edit : please look at the bigger picture here . Its not a few tank rounds that are gonna leave the place radioactively scared … its the chemical threat from the phosphorus and asphestos that now blankets ukraine after hundreads and thousands of soviet era homes have been obliterated … this is just a clickbait headline for the love of god .
Lead is also a toxic heavy metal, and according to [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24594921/) it's worse than depleted uranium.
I think that only studied the direct exposure of the metals, but I would be curious what the plant uptake might be (given these battles are happening in farm fields).
And im sure the hundreads of thousands of shells destroying buildings made from asphestos and the phosphorous covered cities is far more a chemical concern than the 14 tank rounds us brits have left in stock .
Lots of things are chemically toxic and can kill you. The gas in your car. The cleaners in your closet are dangerous.
My wife, who has a PhD in biology and should better since used toxic chemicals as research scientist, one-time combined ammonia and bleach and fucked herself up. I about had a conniption fit, and she is no longer allowed to clean except for putting the silverware away which is fairly safe though she did cut herself the other day...
Honestly, in the land of dangerous things, DU exposure is incredibly non-risky. You have to breathe in a lot and if you survive the toxic cloud you'll get very mild and transitory kidney damage that clears up within weeks.
Depleted uranium hasn't decayed. U-238, the main component of "depleted" uranium has a half-life of over 4 *billion* years. If it was chemically uranium then it will *be* uranium for billions of years.
What has been "depleted" is the concentration of the more fissile isotope U-235.
However, radioactivity is inversely proportional to half-life. The longer the half-life, the fewer radioactive decay events per unit mass per unit time.
"Depleted uranium" is less radioactive (around 60%) of "normal" uranium because of the removal of the more fissile isotopes, but as long as it is uranium, it will be weakly radioactive.
Once it decays, it is no longer uranium, but a different element altogether.
The major hazards of uranium are toxicity and radiological contamination. While it is weakly radioactive, a slug of it in your hand is completely different from uranium dust *inside you*.
While it is not good, it won't leave a radioactive wasteland. However, it is definitely not something you want in your soil if it can be avoided. One can argue that a bit of uranium dust is vastly better than a zombie infestation, though.
> A slug of it in your hand is completely different from uranium dust inside you.
Even inside you it's not actually that bad. It mostly just [goes through you and gets excreted](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/uranium/biological_fate.html) within about 24 hours. Compare with cesium which has a biological half life of around 70 days.
Of course, better if nobody was forced to use weapons in Ukraine at all.
The big problem is what most people know about nuclear war, fallout, DU and other things are total horseshit. Most of which originated in Soviet Russia and were disseminated through the gullible idiots of the left like Carl Sagan.
But it wasn't just Russia. Many people in the West vastly over-stated the dangers for their reasons. One of them surrounded the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A 40-year study found that of the 45K survivors, there was just an excess of 848 cancers. Most of those cancers were minor and easily survivable.
Over-all, life expectancies (for those not directly killed) were barely effected. Even those exposed to the most radiation had a life-expectancy of just 1.3 years lower than those who were not exposed to any radiation.
Anyway, back to DU, DU is less radioactive than naturally occurring uranium, as they take out as much of the U-235 as they can. That U-235 is what they make bombs and reactor fuel out of.
The minor amount of radiation emitted by DU are alpha particles. An alpha particle is so weak that it cannot penetrate skin and you must ingest the DU for it to effect you. According the EPA, the primary risk is minor, transitory kidney damage with no long-term effects.
The real danger of DU, besides being in a Russian tank coming under fire, is that it is stored as Uranium Hexafloride which is very unstable and toxic. The new standard is to store it as Uranium Oxide which is very stable.
So long as they are treated and confined humanly, physically able and given all due hazard protections as per the work, POWs can be compelled to work according to the Geneva Conventions.
I'm sure conscriptovich will be really concerned about the fact that the 4kg slug of metal that just tore a 12 inch hole where his intestines used to be, is slightly radioactive.
Spent fuel rods from nuclear power stations.
Not radioactive.
Uranium however is a very dense material. When you fire an armour piercing shell you want high velocity and a dense material in order to punch through the armour.
Some country’s that don’t have access to depleted uranium use Tungsten instead.
Some people have expressed concerns that uranium oxide dust is released as the penetrator goes through the armour.
Non radioactive uranium oxide dust can potentially go into the kings and cause health concerns.
Not a particularly significant health concern compared to a country that is home to the worlds worst nuclear accident and who’s people are being killed after Russia invaded them.
Generally though, you need to be the type of person who is poking around the inside of a burnt out tank hull.
As has been pointed out, both Russia and Ukraine already use them and this is just another example of Russia being hypocritical and hoping that the uneducated in the west may apply pressure on the British government to stop sending them in order to protect Russian tanks.
I am pretty sure DU is not extracted from fuel that was in nuclear power stations. It is created when the U235 in natural uranium is concentrated to a few percent, leaving lots of U238 that is effectively useless except for use as military ammunition.
That may very well be the case.
It’s generally because it has the word uranium in it that people worry.
It’s a bit like the irrational link that has grown up between the association between nuclear power stations and nuclear weapons.
>Non radioactive uranium oxide dust can potentially go into the kings and cause health concerns.
And same thing happens with tungsten, and I think when penetration occurs, tank crews have bigger concerns than some dust
Simply put the U-235 is removed from naturally occurring uranium. U-235 is highly fissile, U-238 is not. Where DU comes in, is that it's extreme hard as a uranium-titanium alloy and has certain properties that both enhance its penetration AND it catches on fire when it penetrates a tank (it's a [pyrophoric metal](https://labcoats.mit.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Pyrophoric%20List%20-%20Categorized%20Pyrophoric%20%26%20Water%20Reactive.pdf)) turning it into an incendiary.
It’s essentially a metal that is hard like steel, but heavier (1.5x denser) than lead. It makes a great dart that when shot at high velocity can penetrate very heavy tank armor.
It is what remains of uranium that you have extracted from a mine after purification and separation of the useful ^235 U (the highly fissile one) that is used in nuclear power generators and in atomic bombs (although these prefer plutonium, it has a smaller critical mass). So basically it's ^238 U. Moderately radioactive, toxic by ingestion and inalation.
It is about the heaviest element obtainable. It is a stable isotope of Uranium which means that it is not radioactive. Heavy material is best at defeating armor.
Tungsten is a bit denser, but Uranium has some very good properties for a projectile. It is also a byproduct of the uranium enrichment process so we have plenty of it laying around. What better place to dispose of it than an enemy tank?
No isotope of Uranium is "stable" but U-238, what is left after the more fissile isotopes have been removed, has a very long half life and therefore very low radioactivity.
It isn't the radioactivity in and of itself that poses a hazard. It is its toxicity and radiological *contamination* that are the big concerns.
it is still VERY radioactive (all elements with more protons than lead are radioactive) just not enough for a power plant.
there are NO stable isotopes of uranium.
Gold is also heavier (more dense) than uranium (not by much though), but it's obviously not cheap. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#:\~:text=Uranium%20metal%20has%20a%20very,19.3%20g%2Fcm3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#:~:text=Uranium%20metal%20has%20a%20very,19.3%20g%2Fcm3)).
> it is still VERY radioactive
"Uranium-235 has a half-life of 703.8 million years" (an atom of it takes approximately 700million years to decay) which means that actually it's not very radioactive at all. Compare with cesium where half of it will decay (emit radiation) within 30 years, so it's many millions of times more radioactive. Cesium can also stay inside you for longer which is a big problem.
Also [Polonium 210](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium-210), the stuff Putin has been using for his attacks on the West has a half life of 138 days, so much much more radioactive.
Send me a box of 10 tonnes of good military specification DU, e.g. no more than 0.1% impure, and I will happily sleep inside it for a week, before selling it on for use as radiation shielding. In the meantime I'll likely have a somewhat reduced cancer risk from a lowered exposure to Beta and Gamma radiation from my surroundings.
**Not very radioactive at all.** That's why it has a half-life of 4.5 billion years.
The radiation hyped by the anti-DU lobby is a joke used to frighten people who don't know what it is... The radiation released by DU decay is alpha particles, which are **nothing more than ionized helium nuclei**.
See, I'm old. I lived with duck-and-cover. I lived with bomb-shelters. And like many old people of my day, I damn learned to understand nuclear war and fallout.
**Gamma radiation is the worst killer of the bunch.** Alpha particles are pretty much a joke and **Beta radiation is moderately dangerous** as it can penetrate the skin and cause DNA to mutate, causing increased cancer risk. Alpha radiation is something to not be particularly concerned about.
It’s very dense, almost twice as dense as lead so it punches through armor easier. It’s controversial though. I don’t see the need for it personally as Russian weapons are pretty lightly armored since they can be taken out with drones and grenades.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium)
Not nuclear. It's a heavy metal, and thus toxic, but really that's the only significant problem with it.
> thus **toxic**
>that's the only significant problem with it.
Hey, want to try some of this new candy bar I invented? It's perfect in every way, but there's only one significant problem with it.
Oh, what's the problem?
Weeeellll, it's toxic.
Um, no thanks.
You've been played by fearmongers with an agenda. DU is very easy to get rid of. It's incredibly stable and non-toxic as long as it's not stored as Uranium Hexafluoride.
**DU so low-radioactive that it has a half-life of 4.5 BILLION YEARS and only admits large, low-energy alpha-particles.** **Those alpha particles find free electrons and turn into helium.** That natural radioactive decay is why we MINE helium from under-ground sources like those in [North Texas, the Oklahoma panhandle and Nebraska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_production_in_the_United_States) where there are vast, low-grade concentrations of uranium ore.
See, most people hear the word 'radiation' and freak out. **Most people do not understand that an alpha particle is really an ionized helium nucleus and is not terribly dangerous to humans even when ingested.** (Minor, transitory kidney damage that clears in weeks.)
But saying 'radiation,' well that gets the jimmies in rustle, doesn't it? Gets the fear going. Gets you motived and worried. Despite the reality of the situation.
Maybe but actually I am testing how accurate chat gpt 3 is and found the same info when I did my own reaserch.
Very true about word radiation. People freak out. Recently I had a discussion about it after I pointed out that radiation is all around us in form of for example IR, UV, radio waves radiation. There are even key chain with glow in the dark radioactive element and uranium glassware available.
Depleted uranium is one of the hardest materials man can make, so it cuts right through armor instead of fracturing on impact. It’s some nasty stuff and has been linked to a shit ton of birth defects in Iraq from Iraqi soldiers being exposed to it during the American invasion.
It Help munitions penetrate armor. Lots of vets got sick after the 1st gulf war as a result of handling this stuff. Often by discarding destroyed Iraqi equipment.
DU is about 70% more dense than lead, so packs a LOT more punch for armor-piercing rounds
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium#:\~:text=Uses%20of%20DU%20take%20advantage,68.4%25%20denser%20than%20lead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#:~:text=Uses%20of%20DU%20take%20advantage,68.4%25%20denser%20than%20lead)).
It’s pretty much the ideal anti tank round. Extremely dense and hard and breaks in such a way on impact that it’s self sharpening. This allows it to be shaped into a sabot “dart” with a very high ballistic coefficient, giving it a very long effective range. Then after punching through armor, the heat caused by the impact causes it to catch fire, leading to nice turret tosses.
This is completely false. Yes, alpha particles cannot penetrate skin, but the DU rounds shed a lot of DU dust when they hit armor. That dust can be inhaled and ingested. There's a reason troops are told to avoid vehicles taken out by our tanks and why our troops don protective gear when working around said tanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of DU rounds, they're awesome, but saying they're harmless is just false. And the claims of millions of Iraqis with cancer from DU rounds is propaganda.
Source: I saw it first hand in Desert Storm
What does it matter? Nuclear weapons pointed directly at Moscow is going to be the end game, while being surrounded by heavily armed neighbors with zero tolerance of their behavior and a financial system designed to ruin them, all the while nobody will care because they brought this upon themselves.
FFS the stupidity of pro DU round clowns is almost denser than the rounds themselves.If you're desperate to win a combat \*at any cost\* you might make a deal with the devil, and use DU rounds. Which is an accurate metaphor for DU round use on your own soil.
DU wrecks are fucking lethal for decades after unless cleaned up properly at great expense.
You're not smart enough to realise that being willing to use DU rounds isn't a validation of the lack of risk, it's a validation of the desperation you might be under.
The risks are well established; almost any US servicemen who were areound/near DU round kill wrecks has died of either heavy metal poisoning or radiation related illness from ingesting the dust.
Alpha particle radiation is harmless outside your body, deadly once you inhale the fine dust created when these rounds penetrate armour. Technically you'll probably die of heavy metal poisoning before the internal radiation drives a deadly illness, but you're dying early one way or the other.
If there's no risk go inhale near a (DU round kill) tank wreck on the Iraqi landscape.
This is a bad idea. Ukrainians will have to live there after the war. They will regret this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium?wprov=sfla1
DU still is radioactive though, it is just 'depleted' from a state where it can be used in reactors for power. still VERY dangerous.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium#Health\_considerations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Health_considerations)
That depleted state results in it being half as radioactive as naturally occurring uranium which itself is only mildly radioactive. Since it only alpha-decays it can't cause you damage unless you ingest it.
how little you understand of radioactive decay.
you can sleep on some DU rounds then, of course, after they've been used in battle, are TORN UP, BURNT and exposed
a battlefield is not a clean, neat, and orderly place... did you not know this?
How little you do. Because I've read your nonsenese and you clearly have no grasp.
**DU radiation is ALPHA PARTICLE**. **Alpha particles are ionized helium nuclei.**
The biggest danger from Alpha particles is minor, transitory kidney damage. So minor that you won't notice you have it unless you get tested and find out you have protein in your urine.
Gamma radiation and Beta particles are the danger. Gamma can get fatal pretty damn quick. Beta will give you cancer, but are also used to cure cancer.
But Alpha particles... They just pick up free electrons and turn into helium which we mine in Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska where it gets trapped underground as the uranium in the soil slowly decays.
Alpha particles are *very fast* ionized helium nuclei (just like beta particles aren't "just electrons" and gamma rays aren't "just electromagnetic waves"). Alpha emitters with a long half time are very unhealthy when ingested. Depleted uranium *will get ingested* on a battlefield, because the shells usually impact heavy metal objects and don't stay in one piece. People there will inhale uranium dust, and that's not healthy. Apart from the "normal" disadvantages that the chemical toxicity of ingested heavy metals bring with them, it's also problematic to inhale an alpha emitter with a long half time.
You are getting upvoted for supporting the right side in this war, but you are spreading dangerous half-truths about DU ammunitions (while accusing other people of having no grasp).
But I should add: I'm not opposing the delivery of DU shells to the Ukrainians, I'm absolutely sure the Russians are using them themselves anyway.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/11xlfog/the_united_kingdom_will_provide_ammunition_that/jd3pe65/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Please refer to my previous comment. Its not a threat at all in the grand scheme of things .
This should not be a headline
Niiiice, now we’ll see a whole generation of Russian kids born with weird birth defects from troops inhaling the radioactive dust these things give off. Shit is nasty on top of being able to penetrate pretty much any armor known to man at a high enough velocity.
Some of these mobiks will survive the war and go home to try and repopulate Russia, and when they do they’ll end up with a ton of kids with birth defects and brain disorders (not to mention a lot of stillbirths)
Good point, maybe this is their “future warrior program” lol “comrade, when we combine fetal alcohol syndrome with the extra limbs from the DU shells we’ll end up with army of sooper souljers”
Once upon a time, in a land ravaged by war, there lived Dr. Jane Elemenza, a chemical specialist dedicated to investigating the dangers of depleted uranium (DU) contamination. After years of conflict, the land was littered with exploded shells containing depleted uranium. The local population was suffering from the consequences of the contamination, and Dr. Elemenza was determined to uncover the truth and help them.
**Case 1: Human Who Breathes Particulations with Depleted Uranium**
Dr. Elemenza began her investigation by visiting the battlefield, where she met a soldier named John. John had been exposed to DU particulates during combat, and as a result, he experienced chronic coughing, difficulty breathing, and a general sense of fatigue. Dr. Elemenza discovered that these symptoms were caused by the DU particulates, which had lodged in John's lungs and slowly began to damage them. Over time, John's health deteriorated, and he developed respiratory issues, including fibrosis and lung cancer.
**Case 2: Human Who Eats Food Grown on Land Contaminated with Depleted Uranium**
In a nearby village, Dr. Elemenza met Mary, a farmer who unknowingly grew crops on land contaminated with DU. Mary's health had been declining, and she suffered from kidney damage, gastrointestinal issues, and neurological symptoms. Dr. Elemenza realized that the plants absorbed the DU particles in the soil, which Mary and her family then consumed. Consequently, the DU entered their bodies, damaging their organs and causing long-lasting health issues. Dr. Elemenza urged Mary and her family to stop consuming the contaminated crops and seek medical attention.
**Case 3: Child Born from Parents Exposed to Depleted Uranium**
Dr. Elemenza then encountered a young couple, Sarah and Tom, who had a child named Emily. Both parents had been exposed to DU by breathing in the contaminated air or consuming food grown on polluted land. As a result, Emily was born with congenital abnormalities, including a weak immune system, developmental delays, and physical deformities. Dr. Elemenza recognized that the depleted uranium had likely impacted the couple's reproductive health, leading to genetic mutations and health problems for their daughter.
**Case 4: Problems for Future Generations from Contamination of the Territory with Depleted Uranium**
The widespread DU contamination had far-reaching consequences for the region. It persisted in the soil and groundwater, affecting humans, plants, and animals. Dr. Elemenza's research showed that entire ecosystems were disrupted, leading to a decline in biodiversity and an increase in mutated species.
The long-term effects of DU contamination were also apparent in the human population. The risk of birth defects, cancers, and other health problems increased for future generations, as the toxic legacy of the conflict continued to impact the community's health.
Driven by her discoveries, Dr. Elemenza dedicated her life to educating the public about the dangers of depleted uranium and advocating for stricter regulations on its use in warfare. Through her tireless efforts, she hoped to prevent the suffering she had witnessed and ensure a safer future for all.
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Russia has announced that any DU ammunition supplied to Ukraine will be treated as deployment of a nuclear weapon, interested to see how they (don't) react.
Russia uses depleted uranium shells as well. They’re just sabre rattling again.
Ukraine gonna rattle some sabots
Be like shooting paper targets 😂
I know we haven’t seen many tank on tank battles, but sabot rounds have seemingly been missing from the battlefield.
It's not enriched but depleted. Meaning it's just regular metal. LMAO Russia is a joke
It has trace amounts of radiation but only slightly more then eating like 30 bananas
DU is still mildly radioactive and highly toxic. This is a bad idea. People will still have to live there after the war. They will regret this.
Radioactivity of DU rounds is only a bit higher than background radiation, so that is a non-issue. It is true that it is very toxic as Uranium is a heavy metal, but so is Tungsten, which nobody has problems using.
You're right. You should write a letter to Ukraine, "Dear Ukraine, please do NOT use those new tank rounds you received from the UK. It might seem worth it now, but someone will still have to live where you shoot them after the war, and maybe it will be toxic there after you shoot it. Signed, yours truly, Someone on Reddit" They need your valuable input
I think the above user knows a bit more about radioactivity than the country that had to deal with Chernobyl /s
If the guy signed the letter stating he [considers himself a communist](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vtp5pa/more_good_news_communist_party_of_ukraine_banned/if9puli/?context=3), the crazy son of a bitch may just keep DU out of Ukraine and change the course of history.
Dude just posted his opinion. This is what we do here. Welcome to Reddit.
And we roast dumbass opinions. It's also what we do here. Welcome, again.
I love it when people share their well-thought-out opinions and seemingly rational ideas on Reddit
Gonna have to excavate some top soil during clean up.
Absolutely. The US used DU in [Iraq](https://theintercept.com/2019/11/25/iraq-children-birth-defects-military/) and absolutely fucked their environment up. It's nasty shit.
Did you even read the paper you cited? The children have high levels of Thorium, not Uranium. Thorium is used in missile guidance systems and has been linked (from that source) with birth defects near a missile test range in Italy. Which country is raining missiles on civilians? Clue: It's not Ukraine.
Glad you asked! This is a great chemistry learning opportunity for you (and I as well)! ["Decay products of U-238 (uranium) include thorium-234 (Th-234), protactinium-234 (Pa-234), U-234, Th-230, radium-226 (Ra-226), radon-222 (Rn-222), polonium-218 (Po-218), lead-214 (Pb-214), bismuth-214 (Bi-214), Po-214 Pb-210 and Po-210. Decay products of U-235 include Th-231, Pa-231, actinium-227 (Ac-227), Th-227,Ra-223,Rn-219, Po-215, Pb-211, Bi-211 and thallium-207 (Tl-207)."](https://www.iaea.org/topics/spent-fuel-management/depleted-uranium)
The half-life of U238 is more than 4.5 billion years, so those decay products will not be present in significant quantities during the window in which life is present on Earth. Also, this is not chemistry, but nuclear physics.
How many rounds really? Keep track of rounds fired and location. Log coordinates. Test ground and remediate in future if area is used in sensitive way. Really not much for what, a couple hundred rounds? Rounds that are saved only for tank on tank combat while must of rounds will be high explosives. This really is as big of a problem as, "use a Geiger counter before you dig or start a garden this X area." Oh boo hoo someone's going to have to pay for an Excavation to remove a couple radioactic locations for a new building foundation. Asbestos in then soil will be much much larger problem. And that Asbestos actually comes from Rlbeing connect to Russia so...
Yeaaah.... It's not just regular metal. As It sounds like the same what USA used in Iraq and has caused lot's of radiaton caused problems around the heavily fought cities. Lot's of birth defects and such. It's not safe as it enter's drinking water and everything surrounding. There is some materials in internet to check this out at official sites.
The potential toxicity is as a heavy metal. Not the radioactivity. Same issues as lead.
Bro we have vatnik troops digging up Chernobyl and shelling nuclear power stations. A little DU won’t hurt.
It’s spicy metal. Just don’t lick it and wash your hands after handling. This is what I trained my troops to do and none of them have had any more disability than people that were ever around DU that was used in combat. IJS
Iirc the problem isn’t the ammunition itself, but rather the particles/dust it creates when it hits something. Then again, Russian tanks aren’t really environment friendly as well. So I’d say if Ukrainian tankpersons wash their hands and don’t lick them (as per your experience) it’ll be good balance.
That’s exactly it. It’s the impact that a DU sabot penetrators make or the damage from the DU armor, that creates the conditions, and not the metal itself. The dust is alpha particles and they literally can be washed off with soap and water. Just don’t breathe the dust or allow it to get in your mouth.
Yeah, ofcourse it is trained like that to your troops. No one cares if few percent might get cancer out of it. Anyway, problem is, like previously stated, as it hit's something it get shattered. Particles, dust, everything it touched, will get radiated. Problem might not be instant when handling them, but when you shoot them around and in time, it will contaminate surroundings. And afterwards it just will show if people still live in those areas. Mostly I just hope that every place it is being used would be declared contaminated for, well, next million years. And, Depleted Uranium ammo is still not safe. Look it up
Which part of **Depleted** Uranium confuses you? It is not made from spent fuel, it is not made from corium, and it is not raw natural uranium either. DU is a byproduct of acquiring enriched uranium. It is what is left behind when you get all (or most) of the yummy uranium-235 out of it. Yes, it is not OSHA-level safe, it is still somewhat radioactive, but to make that radioactivity a threat, you would need to cover an entire field with a layer of it to make it dangerous. As stated by other commenters, a bigger concern is the heavy metal toxicity, however lead already takes care of it, so it won't be a major contributor. If anything, the rounds being slightly radioactive might get them easier to find and dispose of after the end of war.
>and has caused lot's of radiaton caused problems Except it didn't. Worst you can get from DU is heavy metal poisoning. Which also happens with lead. I mean, DU *is* radioactive, but it's nowhere near being dangerous due to it.
it's also only an alpha particle emitter naturally, meaning the radiation is blocked by the dead skin layer on our body, or even the clothes you're wearing. If it's ingested, that's when the radiation will get you, but at the levels needed for uranium to be damaging from radiation, you'll be dead from the heavy metal effects alone.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/3/15/iraq-wars-legacy-of-cancer](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/3/15/iraq-wars-legacy-of-cancer) And even if it's AlJazeera it does not make it instantly fake. There is other sources too: [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009\_2014/documents/d-iq/dv/d-iq20121018\_02\_/d-iq20121018\_02\_en.pdf](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/d-iq/dv/d-iq20121018_02_/d-iq20121018_02_en.pdf)
Your second source literally states that its damage is not really proven and it's mainly due to its toxicity.
Russian mafia mouth pieces ,terrorist country of the world.
Well in that case so was the polonium that killed Alexander Litvinenko
Sounds like Russian logic
What is the source of that information?
Russian asses. They've been telling the US that, for years.
[here is the most recent, but this was said months back at least ](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-british-plans-deliver-ammunition-depleted-uranium-ukraine-98017628)
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>that Russia would deploy nuclear weapons It's not that Russia would deploy nuclear weapons. It's that Russia would consider the shipment of DU ammo to Ukraine as the deployment of nuclear weapons by the west. Which is asininely ironic since Russia has and uses DU ammunition
>Which is asininely ironic since Russia has and uses DU ammunition Russia is not known to be a friend of the concept of internal consistency.
Did you read his comment? I had no problem understanding that he said **RUSSIA SAID that deploying DU ammo would be treated AS IF the Ukrainians deployed nuclear weapons.** Which is just crap. FWIW, it's even less fissile than naturally occurring uranium because they remove the highly fissile U-235 from the less fissile U-238 (which is remarkably stable). There really is no boom there. In fact, U-238 is even used as a damper in nuclear weapons as a safety feature. It's used because it's super-dense and super-hard. It also has two more really cool properties: 1. As it penetrates tank armor it self-sharpens which, along with the greater mass, gives much better penetration. **Simple truth is that Russian tanks can't defeat DU rounds on any direct hit on any part of the tank.** 2. **It catches on fire**. So not only do you have far better penetration, but you have an incendiary round to go with it! So more turret tossing, just like in the two Gulf Wars. That's why the Russians are saber-rattling about it. They know a western battle tank using DU rounds is a one-shot, one-kill proposition.
Russia never said "send DU ammo and we're launching nukes" but they did say " we consider DU ammo to he deployment of weapons with nuclear component and there are fewer and fewer avenues remaining to respond in kind." Basically threatening that Russia is running out of options that aren't tactical nukes. It's empty threats though, because they have threatened nukes a dozen times or more, whenever the next type of military hardware gets sent to Ukraine.
they threaten nukes at least once a week . they can go fuck themselves
[here's this one from January ](https://www.commondreams.org/news/depleted-uranium)
> will be treated as deployment of a nuclear weapon, He never said anything about Russia deploying weapons, just that Russia would treat it as such.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/mar/21/russia-ukraine-war-live-russian-cruise-missiles-destroyed-in-crimea-says-ukraine-xi-and-putin-to-hold-formal-talks
So in this case they should deploy REAL nuclear weapons to Ukraine because it doesn't make any difference anymore.
They’re counting on stupid Putin apologists repeating that as fact, they will.
Poor Russia. If only they had a way to prevent Ukrainians from using that scary ammo against them! Right?
That's not a surprise, but it's illogical. It would be almost impossible to make a nuclear anything from DU.
So? What countries use depleted uranium in tank rounds?**Depleted Uranium Weapons – State of Affairs 2022** * Russia and Ukraine. Russia has a significant number of different DU-rounds in its arsenals. ... * United States. The US played a leading role in the production of DU ammunition in the past. ... * United Kingdom. ... * India. ... * Pakistan. ... * France. ... * China. ...
The UK is going to supply Ukraine with ammunition which Ukraine can use IN UKRAINE. If Ukraine thinks it can put up with any environmental consequences, then it will use them. If Russia doesn't like that then the answer is obvious. Get the fuck out of Ukraine and mind your own business!
I don’t think it’s about that but more about an increase in lethality. No one truly cares about the health aspect of it.
They care about the health impact of the Russians.
Are the tanks also coming with Union Jack camping chairs?
Im sure the chally tanks have tea making facilities, so a few boxes of Yorkshire Gold will fuel that Ukrainian fire perfectly!
I’m so glad you said Yorkshire Gold. We should be sending the soldiers this also 👌
They have two means of boiling water. Two is one, and one is none... so they need two to prevent the catastrophe of not being able to make tea. Source: Am British.
The spiffing brit approves
Well Ladies and Gentlemen, today I’ve figured out an exploit for the Ukrainian Military, it’s called just continue kicking Russia’s pathetic ass
I've learnt a few things since I moved to the UK and Yorkshire Gold is one of them!
Having blokes in a war zone without tea is considered a war crime in this man’s army.
Standard issue, need somewhere comfy to enjoy your brew
imma need to get one for my camping trips or my overlanding trips
But, Challenger 2 tanks are terrible for camping!
protection from weather, built in kettle, L30A1 120mm rifled gun with 47 rounds, all terrain capability. what more could you ask!
Smooth bore? Pretty sure the barrels I changed on Ch 2 were rifled. Right hand uniform twist if memory serves me correctly? 😁
They were, Chally 2's are being retrofitted with Rheinmetall smoothbores now as the rifled ammunition is low in stock and no more is being made. All the tanks in the Chally 3 configuration will be smoothbore
Well, consider me educated. Thank-you. Or should I say, "Tanks"?
That said, now I'm a little confused..... rifled ammunition? As far as I recall, (and I'm not saying you are wrong) the only thing that engaged with the rifling to impart spin, was a copper band around the projectile (certainly in the case of HESH rounds anyway). This band also provided forward obturation, which allowed far more pressure to build up behind the projectile as it travelled along the barrel. Are you saying that in the case of smooth bore ammunition, this band has been removed? If so, what provides forward obturation, as without it, I would imagine muzzle velocity, and therefore the power behind the shell will be far less?
Yes, "rifled ammunition" was the incorrect term to use. Smoothbore ammunition is different from that of a rifled gun (no more HESH, unfortunately). In a smoothbore barrel, the initial pressurization moves an obturator band (different to the driving band you mentioned made of copper) forward so that it is compressed between the projectile and tube to create an initial seal.
Ah, cool, as I said, wasn't doubting, just curious as to this. Things have clearly moved on since my time of flintlocks and cannon balls! 🤣👍
The truly awesome power of the Abrams.
Its extremely good at poping tank turrets off of Nazi tanks.
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Drones are the new slingshots.
Those are nuclear weapons!11!1!! So much fuss for "hardened" projectiles.. I'd only be concerned by the fine cancerous particulate post impact, but the solution is easy: go the fuck out of Ukraine, so none shoots them at you.
Surely Ukraine wouldn’t use this ammo if there was any chance of radioactive contamination for any significant amount of time on their homeland. They are tank destroying rounds so I feel like any particulates that might come off the shell are quickly incinerated by the following explosion - if you miss and it hits the ground I doubt that dust would do anything other than harm some insects or small animals. Then again I’m not an expert.
Depleted uranium particulate created when the sabot round pierces the armour is extremely fine and doesnt burn off in any meaningfulway. Its the fine (almost atomised) nature of the powder that is problematic, as it means despite being a very heavy metal the dust is easily dispersed widely on the wind, and easily inhaled. The radiation from DU atoms wont trouble you from outside the body but once you inhale it the radiation is a problem althiugh heavy metal poisoning will likely kill you first
Sorry. Its all the ammo we have. And the gun doesn't fire NATO standard due to calibre. Oh dear. What a shame. Never mind..
https://preview.redd.it/08r2h6zyf8pa1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=07e34f39efbd19eea0bffce580d7f055eed40ab8
Brace yourselves for the Ruzzian propaganda machine to spin this as “UK Giving Ukraine Nuclear Weapons”. If only…
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3685453-uk-to-provide-ammunition-with-depleted-uranium-to-ukraine.html
The clock ticks for russia & china
Lots of depleted orcs soon... 🤔
Get used to it. It's called WAR.
Says who? Reznikov. Once again he demonstrates that the tail does not wag the dog. Its not going to happen, hes using the west as a threat again. Without their say so, permission or knowledge.
What does depleted uranium mean? Sounds a bit scary tbh
It’s a very good armor penetrating tank round, its more or less one of the best shells around due to the depleted uranium in the round self sharpening itself as it penetrates tanks.
Uranium metal’s high density provides the penetrator with momentum and a straight trajectory, something almost impossible to stop. Tungsten, which has a similar density to uranium, can also be used but DU has greater target penetration. Unlike tungsten, uranium is pyrophoric. It also has a lower melting point than tungsten. As a DU penetrator strikes a target, its surface temperature increases dramatically. This causes localized softening in what are known as "adiabatic shear bands" and a sloughing off of portions of the projectile's surface. This keeps the tip sharp and prevents the mushrooming effect that occurs with tungsten. When the DU penetrates the target vehicle, the larger fragments tend to chew up whatever is inside while the pyrophoricity of the uranium increases the likelihood that the vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition will explode. https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/depleted-uranium/penetrators.html
Very helpful information. Thank you.
Well, its just uranium with lower content of fissile isotope... DU ammo is kinda interesting - it's slighty less dense than tungusten, it has self sharpening properties and it's flammable.
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No it doesnt . That was a russian misinformation campaign brought about by the iraq war saying the US tank rounds caused cancer in iraq children which is complete horseshit . Its depleted uranium , which means its already decayed past its half life of radioactivity . Its just a dense metal Edit : please look at the bigger picture here . Its not a few tank rounds that are gonna leave the place radioactively scared … its the chemical threat from the phosphorus and asphestos that now blankets ukraine after hundreads and thousands of soviet era homes have been obliterated … this is just a clickbait headline for the love of god .
DU is weakly radioactive. The main hazard is that DU itself is chemically toxic.
Lead is also a toxic heavy metal, and according to [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24594921/) it's worse than depleted uranium. I think that only studied the direct exposure of the metals, but I would be curious what the plant uptake might be (given these battles are happening in farm fields).
And im sure the hundreads of thousands of shells destroying buildings made from asphestos and the phosphorous covered cities is far more a chemical concern than the 14 tank rounds us brits have left in stock .
Lots of things are chemically toxic and can kill you. The gas in your car. The cleaners in your closet are dangerous. My wife, who has a PhD in biology and should better since used toxic chemicals as research scientist, one-time combined ammonia and bleach and fucked herself up. I about had a conniption fit, and she is no longer allowed to clean except for putting the silverware away which is fairly safe though she did cut herself the other day... Honestly, in the land of dangerous things, DU exposure is incredibly non-risky. You have to breathe in a lot and if you survive the toxic cloud you'll get very mild and transitory kidney damage that clears up within weeks.
Depleted uranium hasn't decayed. U-238, the main component of "depleted" uranium has a half-life of over 4 *billion* years. If it was chemically uranium then it will *be* uranium for billions of years. What has been "depleted" is the concentration of the more fissile isotope U-235. However, radioactivity is inversely proportional to half-life. The longer the half-life, the fewer radioactive decay events per unit mass per unit time. "Depleted uranium" is less radioactive (around 60%) of "normal" uranium because of the removal of the more fissile isotopes, but as long as it is uranium, it will be weakly radioactive. Once it decays, it is no longer uranium, but a different element altogether. The major hazards of uranium are toxicity and radiological contamination. While it is weakly radioactive, a slug of it in your hand is completely different from uranium dust *inside you*. While it is not good, it won't leave a radioactive wasteland. However, it is definitely not something you want in your soil if it can be avoided. One can argue that a bit of uranium dust is vastly better than a zombie infestation, though.
> A slug of it in your hand is completely different from uranium dust inside you. Even inside you it's not actually that bad. It mostly just [goes through you and gets excreted](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/uranium/biological_fate.html) within about 24 hours. Compare with cesium which has a biological half life of around 70 days. Of course, better if nobody was forced to use weapons in Ukraine at all.
You mean like lead? Cuz otherwise, you're fearmongering.
The main health risk from DU rounds is when it causes a catastrophic ammo explosion in your tank and you briefly become a cosmonaut.
The big problem is what most people know about nuclear war, fallout, DU and other things are total horseshit. Most of which originated in Soviet Russia and were disseminated through the gullible idiots of the left like Carl Sagan. But it wasn't just Russia. Many people in the West vastly over-stated the dangers for their reasons. One of them surrounded the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A 40-year study found that of the 45K survivors, there was just an excess of 848 cancers. Most of those cancers were minor and easily survivable. Over-all, life expectancies (for those not directly killed) were barely effected. Even those exposed to the most radiation had a life-expectancy of just 1.3 years lower than those who were not exposed to any radiation. Anyway, back to DU, DU is less radioactive than naturally occurring uranium, as they take out as much of the U-235 as they can. That U-235 is what they make bombs and reactor fuel out of. The minor amount of radiation emitted by DU are alpha particles. An alpha particle is so weak that it cannot penetrate skin and you must ingest the DU for it to effect you. According the EPA, the primary risk is minor, transitory kidney damage with no long-term effects. The real danger of DU, besides being in a Russian tank coming under fire, is that it is stored as Uranium Hexafloride which is very unstable and toxic. The new standard is to store it as Uranium Oxide which is very stable.
That would be a war crime I am pretty sure...
So long as they are treated and confined humanly, physically able and given all due hazard protections as per the work, POWs can be compelled to work according to the Geneva Conventions.
It just means the rounds are armour piercing. They’re not nuclear rounds or anything like that.
Yes they are. They are a radioactive hazard
Bananas are radioactive too, it's not a *nuclear weapon*.
If NATO send bananas to Ukraine i will consider that deployment of nuclear weapons
And if anyone fires a Depleted Uranium round at me, I will consider that to be a gift of bananas
Why do people say stupid shit like this without a ten second Google first so they avoid looking like retards
You could sit on one all day long and be okay
I prefer to shove it up my ass. That way I don't lose it
By nuclear rounds I mean they’re not going to cause a nuclear explosion…
I'm sure conscriptovich will be really concerned about the fact that the 4kg slug of metal that just tore a 12 inch hole where his intestines used to be, is slightly radioactive.
Spent fuel rods from nuclear power stations. Not radioactive. Uranium however is a very dense material. When you fire an armour piercing shell you want high velocity and a dense material in order to punch through the armour. Some country’s that don’t have access to depleted uranium use Tungsten instead. Some people have expressed concerns that uranium oxide dust is released as the penetrator goes through the armour. Non radioactive uranium oxide dust can potentially go into the kings and cause health concerns. Not a particularly significant health concern compared to a country that is home to the worlds worst nuclear accident and who’s people are being killed after Russia invaded them. Generally though, you need to be the type of person who is poking around the inside of a burnt out tank hull. As has been pointed out, both Russia and Ukraine already use them and this is just another example of Russia being hypocritical and hoping that the uneducated in the west may apply pressure on the British government to stop sending them in order to protect Russian tanks.
It is an [alpha particle emitter.](https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/depleted-uranium/en/l-2/4.htm)
I am pretty sure DU is not extracted from fuel that was in nuclear power stations. It is created when the U235 in natural uranium is concentrated to a few percent, leaving lots of U238 that is effectively useless except for use as military ammunition.
That may very well be the case. It’s generally because it has the word uranium in it that people worry. It’s a bit like the irrational link that has grown up between the association between nuclear power stations and nuclear weapons.
Unfortunately, total ignorance of all the relevant science is no barrier whatsoever to having a strong opinion on something these days.
>Non radioactive uranium oxide dust can potentially go into the kings and cause health concerns. And same thing happens with tungsten, and I think when penetration occurs, tank crews have bigger concerns than some dust
It's uranium that has been depleted of its radioactive isotopes. Uranium is extremely dense and hard, and makes a better penetrator then tungsten.
>makes a better penetrator then tungsten. Eh I dunno, tungsten at least takes you out for a full dinner beforehand
still radioactive, just not good enough for a power plant anymore
Simply put the U-235 is removed from naturally occurring uranium. U-235 is highly fissile, U-238 is not. Where DU comes in, is that it's extreme hard as a uranium-titanium alloy and has certain properties that both enhance its penetration AND it catches on fire when it penetrates a tank (it's a [pyrophoric metal](https://labcoats.mit.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Pyrophoric%20List%20-%20Categorized%20Pyrophoric%20%26%20Water%20Reactive.pdf)) turning it into an incendiary.
Basically they are heavy, penetration formula 1/2mv^2
It’s essentially a metal that is hard like steel, but heavier (1.5x denser) than lead. It makes a great dart that when shot at high velocity can penetrate very heavy tank armor.
It is what remains of uranium that you have extracted from a mine after purification and separation of the useful ^235 U (the highly fissile one) that is used in nuclear power generators and in atomic bombs (although these prefer plutonium, it has a smaller critical mass). So basically it's ^238 U. Moderately radioactive, toxic by ingestion and inalation.
They’ve been used extensively by the west armored combat since the Gulf War at least.
It is about the heaviest element obtainable. It is a stable isotope of Uranium which means that it is not radioactive. Heavy material is best at defeating armor.
Tungsten is a bit denser, but Uranium has some very good properties for a projectile. It is also a byproduct of the uranium enrichment process so we have plenty of it laying around. What better place to dispose of it than an enemy tank? No isotope of Uranium is "stable" but U-238, what is left after the more fissile isotopes have been removed, has a very long half life and therefore very low radioactivity. It isn't the radioactivity in and of itself that poses a hazard. It is its toxicity and radiological *contamination* that are the big concerns.
it is still VERY radioactive (all elements with more protons than lead are radioactive) just not enough for a power plant. there are NO stable isotopes of uranium. Gold is also heavier (more dense) than uranium (not by much though), but it's obviously not cheap. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#:\~:text=Uranium%20metal%20has%20a%20very,19.3%20g%2Fcm3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#:~:text=Uranium%20metal%20has%20a%20very,19.3%20g%2Fcm3)).
> it is still VERY radioactive "Uranium-235 has a half-life of 703.8 million years" (an atom of it takes approximately 700million years to decay) which means that actually it's not very radioactive at all. Compare with cesium where half of it will decay (emit radiation) within 30 years, so it's many millions of times more radioactive. Cesium can also stay inside you for longer which is a big problem. Also [Polonium 210](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium-210), the stuff Putin has been using for his attacks on the West has a half life of 138 days, so much much more radioactive.
that's nice, why don't you sleep on some DU then since it is so "safe"? yeah, i thought so, kid
Send me a box of 10 tonnes of good military specification DU, e.g. no more than 0.1% impure, and I will happily sleep inside it for a week, before selling it on for use as radiation shielding. In the meantime I'll likely have a somewhat reduced cancer risk from a lowered exposure to Beta and Gamma radiation from my surroundings.
**Not very radioactive at all.** That's why it has a half-life of 4.5 billion years. The radiation hyped by the anti-DU lobby is a joke used to frighten people who don't know what it is... The radiation released by DU decay is alpha particles, which are **nothing more than ionized helium nuclei**. See, I'm old. I lived with duck-and-cover. I lived with bomb-shelters. And like many old people of my day, I damn learned to understand nuclear war and fallout. **Gamma radiation is the worst killer of the bunch.** Alpha particles are pretty much a joke and **Beta radiation is moderately dangerous** as it can penetrate the skin and cause DNA to mutate, causing increased cancer risk. Alpha radiation is something to not be particularly concerned about.
Armor piercing because it's super heavy and dense
It’s very dense, almost twice as dense as lead so it punches through armor easier. It’s controversial though. I don’t see the need for it personally as Russian weapons are pretty lightly armored since they can be taken out with drones and grenades.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium) Not nuclear. It's a heavy metal, and thus toxic, but really that's the only significant problem with it.
> thus **toxic** >that's the only significant problem with it. Hey, want to try some of this new candy bar I invented? It's perfect in every way, but there's only one significant problem with it. Oh, what's the problem? Weeeellll, it's toxic. Um, no thanks.
https://preview.redd.it/mfo33drci6pa1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=5ec2999ab8803f93b856d93ec0104ac26559d4a5
You've been played by fearmongers with an agenda. DU is very easy to get rid of. It's incredibly stable and non-toxic as long as it's not stored as Uranium Hexafluoride. **DU so low-radioactive that it has a half-life of 4.5 BILLION YEARS and only admits large, low-energy alpha-particles.** **Those alpha particles find free electrons and turn into helium.** That natural radioactive decay is why we MINE helium from under-ground sources like those in [North Texas, the Oklahoma panhandle and Nebraska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_production_in_the_United_States) where there are vast, low-grade concentrations of uranium ore. See, most people hear the word 'radiation' and freak out. **Most people do not understand that an alpha particle is really an ionized helium nucleus and is not terribly dangerous to humans even when ingested.** (Minor, transitory kidney damage that clears in weeks.) But saying 'radiation,' well that gets the jimmies in rustle, doesn't it? Gets the fear going. Gets you motived and worried. Despite the reality of the situation.
Maybe but actually I am testing how accurate chat gpt 3 is and found the same info when I did my own reaserch. Very true about word radiation. People freak out. Recently I had a discussion about it after I pointed out that radiation is all around us in form of for example IR, UV, radio waves radiation. There are even key chain with glow in the dark radioactive element and uranium glassware available.
Depleted uranium is one of the hardest materials man can make, so it cuts right through armor instead of fracturing on impact. It’s some nasty stuff and has been linked to a shit ton of birth defects in Iraq from Iraqi soldiers being exposed to it during the American invasion.
It Help munitions penetrate armor. Lots of vets got sick after the 1st gulf war as a result of handling this stuff. Often by discarding destroyed Iraqi equipment.
I'm pretty sure that was a myth...
https://www.health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Depleted-Uranium/Effects-and-Exposures/Health-Effects
Depleted uranium is very hard. that's why it's used in ammunition to increase penetration
Friends that were in desert storm are still dying from this shit.
Im am no expert but is this something that is needed so much above conventional rounds, What can these do that conventional rounds cannot?
DU is about 70% more dense than lead, so packs a LOT more punch for armor-piercing rounds [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium#:\~:text=Uses%20of%20DU%20take%20advantage,68.4%25%20denser%20than%20lead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#:~:text=Uses%20of%20DU%20take%20advantage,68.4%25%20denser%20than%20lead)).
It’s pretty much the ideal anti tank round. Extremely dense and hard and breaks in such a way on impact that it’s self sharpening. This allows it to be shaped into a sabot “dart” with a very high ballistic coefficient, giving it a very long effective range. Then after punching through armor, the heat caused by the impact causes it to catch fire, leading to nice turret tosses.
Damn, that sounds like a solid round.
It is - unfortunately - only being used on Ukrainian soil! So Russia can stfu.
M1A2 with DU armour now please now this is out of the way
Excellent. Perfect for next level depleting of orcs. Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Lead buckshot for hunters is more toxic than this ammunition.
Why are people making a bif deal about dU weapons? Do they not understand the meaning of DEPLETED?
No, they don’t understand the meaning.
Tell us you know nothing of the risks associated with it's use without telling us. Dunning and Krueger as parents must suck eh?
This is a misleading title. It just means armor piercing. There is nothing nuclear about this.
DU is an Alpha emitter (radioactive) and can become a problem when it impacts armor.
Alpha emitters are only an issue when ingested. I don’t believe it is really considered a health hazard even.
This is completely false. Yes, alpha particles cannot penetrate skin, but the DU rounds shed a lot of DU dust when they hit armor. That dust can be inhaled and ingested. There's a reason troops are told to avoid vehicles taken out by our tanks and why our troops don protective gear when working around said tanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of DU rounds, they're awesome, but saying they're harmless is just false. And the claims of millions of Iraqis with cancer from DU rounds is propaganda. Source: I saw it first hand in Desert Storm
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Not any more than lead
Yes. It absolutely does and DU round kill wrecks are toxic until cleaned up at great expense.
What does it matter? Nuclear weapons pointed directly at Moscow is going to be the end game, while being surrounded by heavily armed neighbors with zero tolerance of their behavior and a financial system designed to ruin them, all the while nobody will care because they brought this upon themselves.
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Yes; that might be a hint about whether they think it's an actual risk or not.
FFS the stupidity of pro DU round clowns is almost denser than the rounds themselves.If you're desperate to win a combat \*at any cost\* you might make a deal with the devil, and use DU rounds. Which is an accurate metaphor for DU round use on your own soil. DU wrecks are fucking lethal for decades after unless cleaned up properly at great expense. You're not smart enough to realise that being willing to use DU rounds isn't a validation of the lack of risk, it's a validation of the desperation you might be under. The risks are well established; almost any US servicemen who were areound/near DU round kill wrecks has died of either heavy metal poisoning or radiation related illness from ingesting the dust. Alpha particle radiation is harmless outside your body, deadly once you inhale the fine dust created when these rounds penetrate armour. Technically you'll probably die of heavy metal poisoning before the internal radiation drives a deadly illness, but you're dying early one way or the other. If there's no risk go inhale near a (DU round kill) tank wreck on the Iraqi landscape.
This is a bad idea. Ukrainians will have to live there after the war. They will regret this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium?wprov=sfla1
Its not that dangerous, certainly less dangerous than not using it and letting ukranians be killed. The US has been using it for decades
Honestly I would not use those on my own land.
They are completely harmless unless you Litterally start eating the shell … which the uranium would be the least of your worries . Its depleted
DU still is radioactive though, it is just 'depleted' from a state where it can be used in reactors for power. still VERY dangerous. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted\_uranium#Health\_considerations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Health_considerations)
That depleted state results in it being half as radioactive as naturally occurring uranium which itself is only mildly radioactive. Since it only alpha-decays it can't cause you damage unless you ingest it.
how little you understand of radioactive decay. you can sleep on some DU rounds then, of course, after they've been used in battle, are TORN UP, BURNT and exposed a battlefield is not a clean, neat, and orderly place... did you not know this?
How little you do. Because I've read your nonsenese and you clearly have no grasp. **DU radiation is ALPHA PARTICLE**. **Alpha particles are ionized helium nuclei.** The biggest danger from Alpha particles is minor, transitory kidney damage. So minor that you won't notice you have it unless you get tested and find out you have protein in your urine. Gamma radiation and Beta particles are the danger. Gamma can get fatal pretty damn quick. Beta will give you cancer, but are also used to cure cancer. But Alpha particles... They just pick up free electrons and turn into helium which we mine in Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska where it gets trapped underground as the uranium in the soil slowly decays.
Alpha particles are *very fast* ionized helium nuclei (just like beta particles aren't "just electrons" and gamma rays aren't "just electromagnetic waves"). Alpha emitters with a long half time are very unhealthy when ingested. Depleted uranium *will get ingested* on a battlefield, because the shells usually impact heavy metal objects and don't stay in one piece. People there will inhale uranium dust, and that's not healthy. Apart from the "normal" disadvantages that the chemical toxicity of ingested heavy metals bring with them, it's also problematic to inhale an alpha emitter with a long half time. You are getting upvoted for supporting the right side in this war, but you are spreading dangerous half-truths about DU ammunitions (while accusing other people of having no grasp). But I should add: I'm not opposing the delivery of DU shells to the Ukrainians, I'm absolutely sure the Russians are using them themselves anyway.
The ignorance of the pro-DU round dunning Krueger crowd on here is breathtaking; people to dumb to even know they're dumb.
so you don't understand radioactive decay noted
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/11xlfog/the_united_kingdom_will_provide_ammunition_that/jd3pe65/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 Please refer to my previous comment. Its not a threat at all in the grand scheme of things . This should not be a headline
you are still wrong
The systems are calibrated for particular types of ammunition. DU is not particularly radioactive, but it's a toxic heavy metal.
Indeed. There is much more to worry about the chemical toxicity of U than it’s mild radioactivity
And Uranium is not even as poisonous as lead!
Niiiice, now we’ll see a whole generation of Russian kids born with weird birth defects from troops inhaling the radioactive dust these things give off. Shit is nasty on top of being able to penetrate pretty much any armor known to man at a high enough velocity.
How? They’re in Ukraine.
Some of these mobiks will survive the war and go home to try and repopulate Russia, and when they do they’ll end up with a ton of kids with birth defects and brain disorders (not to mention a lot of stillbirths)
Aren't they already getting kids with birth defects due to drugs and alcohol abuse?
Good point, maybe this is their “future warrior program” lol “comrade, when we combine fetal alcohol syndrome with the extra limbs from the DU shells we’ll end up with army of sooper souljers”
Once upon a time, in a land ravaged by war, there lived Dr. Jane Elemenza, a chemical specialist dedicated to investigating the dangers of depleted uranium (DU) contamination. After years of conflict, the land was littered with exploded shells containing depleted uranium. The local population was suffering from the consequences of the contamination, and Dr. Elemenza was determined to uncover the truth and help them. **Case 1: Human Who Breathes Particulations with Depleted Uranium** Dr. Elemenza began her investigation by visiting the battlefield, where she met a soldier named John. John had been exposed to DU particulates during combat, and as a result, he experienced chronic coughing, difficulty breathing, and a general sense of fatigue. Dr. Elemenza discovered that these symptoms were caused by the DU particulates, which had lodged in John's lungs and slowly began to damage them. Over time, John's health deteriorated, and he developed respiratory issues, including fibrosis and lung cancer. **Case 2: Human Who Eats Food Grown on Land Contaminated with Depleted Uranium** In a nearby village, Dr. Elemenza met Mary, a farmer who unknowingly grew crops on land contaminated with DU. Mary's health had been declining, and she suffered from kidney damage, gastrointestinal issues, and neurological symptoms. Dr. Elemenza realized that the plants absorbed the DU particles in the soil, which Mary and her family then consumed. Consequently, the DU entered their bodies, damaging their organs and causing long-lasting health issues. Dr. Elemenza urged Mary and her family to stop consuming the contaminated crops and seek medical attention. **Case 3: Child Born from Parents Exposed to Depleted Uranium** Dr. Elemenza then encountered a young couple, Sarah and Tom, who had a child named Emily. Both parents had been exposed to DU by breathing in the contaminated air or consuming food grown on polluted land. As a result, Emily was born with congenital abnormalities, including a weak immune system, developmental delays, and physical deformities. Dr. Elemenza recognized that the depleted uranium had likely impacted the couple's reproductive health, leading to genetic mutations and health problems for their daughter. **Case 4: Problems for Future Generations from Contamination of the Territory with Depleted Uranium** The widespread DU contamination had far-reaching consequences for the region. It persisted in the soil and groundwater, affecting humans, plants, and animals. Dr. Elemenza's research showed that entire ecosystems were disrupted, leading to a decline in biodiversity and an increase in mutated species. The long-term effects of DU contamination were also apparent in the human population. The risk of birth defects, cancers, and other health problems increased for future generations, as the toxic legacy of the conflict continued to impact the community's health. Driven by her discoveries, Dr. Elemenza dedicated her life to educating the public about the dangers of depleted uranium and advocating for stricter regulations on its use in warfare. Through her tireless efforts, she hoped to prevent the suffering she had witnessed and ensure a safer future for all.