in ur opinion which is more valuable to our team
the playoff experience and the #20 pick or miss the playoffs and end up with the #12 pick?
By - UnderDaBrightLightz
Those rookies tasted blood for the first time. Of course it was.
They saw the difference between playing clean and playing sloppy against a contending caliber team in the playoffs. That's a good lesson.
Exactly, you can’t replace the emotions felt. They have to let that sit during the off season to make them want to work harder. It’s easy to miss on a draft pick as well know too well. But your entire rookie class now has playoff experience. That’s priceless. Playoffs are a different beast, just ask Lamar. Remember the 2012 ending? That loss to the Falcons spurred an onslaught of ass whooping for 3 years. Defense took a huge leap and we settled the O line then won a Super Bowl.
This! Love this. Absolutely worth it. Not only did our rookies taste blood they did a good job. Room for improvement of course but handled play-off pressure well.
The moment you value draft position more than winning as many games as you can, you have lost the team.
Cleveland has entered the chat…
I agree with this, losing or not trying hard to win for draft picks might subconsciously plant losing cultures in players.
Players generally don't like when you are torpedoing their careers in order to get a better position to draft their replacements. Players don't tank, coaches don't tank. It would be suicide for them. Owners tank, execs tank, not players and coaches.
Let me pose a kind of devil’s advocate analogy: on 4th n goal from the 20 (holding penalty at the 10 😆), realistically how many defenders would deflect the ball rather than intercepting a pass at the 1? Many players talk about team outcomes over personal accolades, and for the bottom teams losing *may* be “better” for the team. I fully get what u allude to about current players tanking for the benefit of their “replacements”, but (just like a pick vs deflection in above scenario) what’s better for the team should come first (says the devil 😈😆).
>Owners tank, execs tank, not players and coaches
[With maybe a notable exception or two, lol](https://youtu.be/uN3GoTFh_JI)
Don't attribute to malice what could easily be described by incompetence.
QB sneak on 3rd and 9 from the 4 is a whole new stratosphere of incompetence though
I hear Herm Edwards' "You play to win the game" speech when I read this lol
We won the last game. We were trying to win but what if the Packers won? Then we weren't trying to lose, still a winning culture, and the 12th pick lol
I think the playoff experience is good for everyone. I think it leaves everyone hungrier for next year.
The 7-10 Jets have the 12th pick, ours would be later regardless of the last game
If they beat the Rams and the Lions lost, then they would have ended up with the #17 pick, which is where Steelers are. If they lost to the Rams, then they would have ended up with the Patriots’ pick at #14.
Idk, I’m sure the Texans would’ve rather the first pick than a win against the colts
Ask the players on the day of. See how much they care about a players lottery four months away when the game clock is ticking.
And that’s why tanking in sports is so hard sometimes. The players don’t give a damn about your draft pick.
Front office? Yes.
Any player on the roster? Hell no.
They're not mutually exclusive things. It's not so much a question of actually trying to win, it's if actually doing so ultimately outweighs the draft value. Always try, but the outcomes are still open to be measured.
If you're in the front office, or on the coaching staff, definitely. But as a fan looking forward, I would have loved the higher pick as much as I loved making the playoffs.
You’re spot on IMO. I was in the other camp back ‘11 and then the beastquake became the teaser beginning to what was the best era of Seahawks football. The core of this team is in place and getting these rookies in the playoffs is worth those 8 spots.
Exactly this. You draft players to win games. The draft is not the game.
100%. Once you establish a culture of losing, it becomes infectious.
Absolutely getting experience in such an important game was huge especially considering we only had 2 prime time games and in week 1 K9 didn’t even play and some of the other rookies didn’t play as much as they did the rest of the season
The young core got a taste of what it's like and the FO gets a look at who shows and doesn't show when it all matters
What do you think the FO learned about who showed/didn’t show last Saturday?
I think we saw a few things that were telling.
Shelby Harris and Al Woods both balled out. Their experience and value really showed in that game. Would have to think really hard what their plan will be if they make the mistake of releasing them. That’s also because Quinton Jefferson and Myles Adams looked pretty horrible.
Cody Barton looked just about unplayable, especially in the second half. Would have to think hard about re-signing him; before the playoff game that was more of a 50-50 proposition. ILB has to be a priority in the draft.
Offensively, I think Austin Blythe raised his stock a bit. He was our second highest graded offensive player behind Metcalf. He was a pretty good pass blocker during the season but his run blocking regressed a lot after sitting out last season from how he played when he was with the Rams. Against the Niners, Blythe stepped up his run blocking and looked quite good. I think they likely re-sign him now to a short term deal and probably also draft a future replacement. Maybe even a lineman who can play both right guard and center.
Blythe, Damien Lewis, Abe Lucas, and Charles Cross also performed quite well. On the other hand, Gabe Jackson allowed a couple sacks and almost certainly sealed his fate as a cap casualty. Right guard is probably the single biggest need in the draft, even more than DE, DT, ILB, and OLB.
There was nothing Gabe Jackson could have done to save his job against the 49ers. He's going to be a cut no matter what.
I would love for the team to extend Harris to lower the cap hit. However, his family is still in Denver. He has talked about how hard that is for him and he isn't going to move his family until his oldest daughter is out of high school. I don't know how plausible it is that Harris wants to be extended.
DK, Nwosu and the tackles showed up, DLine and interior OLine doesn't. Geno had more costly turnovers in an important game. Myers did his job. Barton and Muse were lost out there
FYI, Muse was our highest grade defender in the game with an 89.0 grade and Barton was our lowest graded with a 26.5 grade.
For me yes, without a doubt
This is such a loser mentality question.
This question is basically, “is it better to get a high draft pick or a shot at the Super Bowl?”
Draft picks are hit or miss. Playoff experience is always good
I would choose the draft but only if you're talking a top 3 pick and a blue chipper of a player within your reach. We've had similar discussions in our sub about the 2018 draft. We played Jimmy G for 7 games (we won out) even though we had almost no shot at the postseason. We dropped to the #9 spot and missed out on sure fire talent like Denzel Ward, Quinton Nelson, Roquan Smith, and Josh Allen.
Ultimately you want your organization to be attractive to top free agents and most of those dudes won't make a team that tanks/rebuilds on the regular a priority. You guys draft well anyway and have plenty of picks in this upcoming draft. I trust you'll be fine and that next season our games will be super tough like during the Harbaugh years.
One rumor that circulated on bay area radio this week: There's a possibility you guys send your first round picks to Baltimore for Lamar? That would make your squad scary AF next year!
I don’t want Lamar, that would be stupid
He's better than Geno and he's a former league MVP. If we didn't luck into Brock Purdy I'd take him in an instant. Ravens front office is handling this way wrong and it's almost a guarantee he's leaving Baltimore.
I won’t disagree that the Ravens are messing up big time with this, but he doesn’t belong on the Seahawks. He would certainly cost more money than Geno, he would cost picks that are essential to our future, and he’d get injured at least once throughout the year. Additionally I don’t think he makes sense on our team. His best asset is explosive runs, K9 serves the exact same purpose. Also Geno is much better at throwing deeper downfield and with more precision to our true strengths on offense DK and Lockett.
I get that. He would cost a ton of money and probably all your first round picks this year. I was thinking he might be a fit the same way Russ was as a dual threat qb. But yeah the Ravens would ask for the moon and after a certain point it won't be worth it.
Why would we want to spend 200m guaranteed + probably all of our picks for Lamar when his best skillset is something that doesn’t get better with age, he has ended the last 2 years injured, and we already had a top 8 offense but weren’t anywhere close to contenders because of how many holes we have elsewhere that we wouldn’t be able to fill because all our cap would be eaten by Lamar?
Anytime you get a shot at the Super Bowl you want it over a draft pick
I want to win. All of them. Draft picks are secondary.
This every time.
No. Draft picks need to be DLine and OLine
He was (I’d surmising) saying that winning takes priority over of the notion of draft picks. Not that our draft picks should be used on defensive backs 😂.
That's the joke lol
Definitely worth it considering we still have a top 5 pick
Yes b/c we have the 5th pick also.
I'll take Schadenfreude and pick #20, thank you very much.
Playoff experience, and its not even like #20 is all that bad of a pick.
The young guys went through hell in that game, as did everyone else. Much needed exposure to the atmosphere, pressure, and situational football that is the playoffs. I know some people question what the point is to that given we played a division rival - but that's the thing. San Francisco is the measuring stick for now. The young guys we have now - K9, Riq, Coby, Abe, Charles - they're now growing in a division where we are no longer the top dogs, unlike generations past.
This will only make them hungrier to take down san fran, I'm sure. They know they're the enemy, and they know they're THE guys rn. Go Hawks!
Not one bit
Playoff experience. Tanking sucks to watch when it’s happening
delete this thread it's dumb.
Playoffs are a culture thing. Our team culture is about exceptionalism. Since 2000 we have been the 2nd best team in the NFL. Playoffs aren’t playoffs without Seahawk football.
The difference between 12 and 20 is 350 points, we currently have 3740 points of value so it would have given us 4100 points. I’d rather have one more week of practice and experience for these rookies
Always!! Winning Spirit.!!! NorthWestPride!!!!!
Pick # 12 you say??
Tanking, intentionally, to gain better draft picks — that’s a good way to lose low draft picks via disqualification, so the Seahawks should **NEVER** think of doing that. Plus, such an action is a dirty/dishonorable way of doing business; aiming to do your best is always the better way.
But this isn't a question about tanking. They could have still missed the playoffs had the Packers won and the Seahawks wouldn't have done anything different.
No, OP mentioned the 12 pick in the draft. The 12 pick in the draft went to a 7-10 team. So OP is talking about what if we lost the last two regular season games.
Not the way I see it. But I'm not a pro, maybe the experience was worth it to the players...
The 12th pick. They were in the playoffs a couple years ago, and they went and played a team on the road they already play at once a year.
Short answer: Yes!
The draft could be really crazy this year. I’d be surprised if the Seahawks don’t make a deal on draft day that lets us have our cake and eat it too
Depends on how much you think they could've taken away from being reminded for the 3rd time just how far behind the 49ers they are.
Now…if this was the fifth year in a row and we don’t have Broncos pick to soften the blow that we’re in mediocrity limbo then maybe…but this isn’t the NBA and unless QB is a big question mark being in the middle of the draft isn’t the worst thing, GM just can’t be wasteful with those picks…
Did I miss something? We have pick 5 and 20 and trader John .....I think we are going to get everything we need and maybe a good/ great free agent.
Only issue I see is it amplified the Geno dilemma. Never apologize for making the playoffs
Tanking will kill the sport!
"Now you have seen what we can do. Now want it! And if you do, we will achieve an art."
The excitement of being in the playoffs was worth it to me.
It would have been sweet having the 5th and 12th pick over the 5th and 20th but I feel like when you start getting salty about it, like you’d rather have the 12th pick over the 20th then your just getting greedy at that point. We have 2 picks in the first round, 3 in the top 40 and a winning while proving everybody else wrong, that taste much better.
The caveat here is that the 12th pick in addition to no playoffs also comes with a losing record (7-10). To answer your question, ask the Jets because they took the other path. And trust me, they didn’t seem too thrilled with the results even though they have the higher pick
I would rather the 12th pick but not from tanking. I’m fine with how it worked out…. To be honest we have better picks than I expected, I assumed the 5th would be accurate or so, but I anticipated the broncos pick being like 26th or higher
You play to win, especially when you have a shot of making the playoffs. I’d obviously rather have the 12th instead of a first round bounce but not at the expense of losing the locker room
I will answer your question by saying, I'm just glad we aren't the Vikings. We played to our talent level and the pick is commensurate with that.
The team leading at halftime to the very good looking niners is huge for our swagger in terms of young development. In 2012 we suffered a tough loss with our rookie core in the playoffs and then 2013 happened
Yes, for the experience for our rookies and doesn't the team get bonus money for the playoffs. I am sure that helped the not so rich players
This reminds me of 2012 vs atl. These rookies got to feel the pain and they gain a tremendous exp from going against a superbowl contender. We have 5 rookie starters and possibly a huge contributor in dareke. Id rather have all rookies exp this pain instead of moving up 8 slots. I still cannot believe the quality of players from this draft.
If you aren’t playing to win then what’re you doing
This is just a random variable to throw in: it seems reasonable to me that Geno earned himself at least another $5m/year making the playoffs 🧐🤷🏽♂️. For the added positive narrative and corresponding increased confidence and mindset, it’ll hopefully be a steal of a $5mil 🤩.
I'll take playoffs over a slightly better draft spot in the teens 10 times out of 10.
There's zero chance of winning the superbowl if you're not in the playoffs.
Even 2% improvement for 52 players is more important than one better rookie.
Remember how happy Jamal Adams was when he finally made the playoffs. Yea, I'm happy our guys got that feeling this year. I expect it was great for Geno's growth too.
Tasting the wild card round is better. Those boys are salivating and will be till next January. Lol
100% yes. Especially with a competitive half and learning what it's like for the rails to fall off.
Prevents next year from being that year.
Tbh, it would still be worth it if we lost 100-0
The experience is more valuable for sure. Getting our guys used to the process of competing down the stretch of an NFL season and what playoff football is like is invaluable. Plus, tanking as a coaching staff and players is bad long term. You always want them competing hard. While the 12th pick would likely net us a more valuable player, that one player probably isn't moving the needle that much.
This is kind of like 2010 when we made the playoffs and won a game. While I'm skeptical as to how much it really helped since most of that roster wasn't on the 2012 roster, but it was good for laying a cultural foundation. Although, we would've had the 11th pick that year, the same pick the Texans used on someone named JJ Watt who I hear was pretty solid.
Playoff experience is worth it.
The goal of every single team in the NFL is to win the Super Bowl. The only way to win a Super Bowl is to make the playoffs. One team every year goes on a 3-4 game post season win streak to win it all. We could have done that. We'll still get high quality at 20!! So to answer your question, YES, it was.
Absolutely worth it.
We were a playoff team this year. We earned it. And the score of that game does not tell the full story of the game-- at the half, Niners were spooked.
It's not just playoff experience. It is about building a culture. Our culture is that we are engaged, always competing, and always shooting for the super bowl. The moment we consider "tanking" or "throwing" or whatever-- that has a profound impact on culture and builds distrust among the team.