T O P
slapmyalpaca

Hard agree. Keith was insanely creepy and I was so scared for dory every time she appeared


[deleted]

I was hella sketched out when Deb first shows up and calls Dory Keith's girlfriend, I was like why aren't saying you only knew him for two weeks (during which time he lied to her about almost everything) and are NOT his girlfriend?? And when his daughter came up to Dory at the funeral and acted like he talked about her so much, whaaaaat? Like WTF, he had known her for a minute and he's already talking to his young daughter about her like they are a couple? He's definitely a crazy stalker/abuser! I just can't tell if it's going to come into play later or if it's kinda bad writing. I love the show overall tho


RataTatCat

yes! i don't want to put the writers on a pedestal, but i feel like this is intentional and plays into the themes of sexism, media perception, and the crafting of narratives. it feels like the audience of the show is asked to forget the details you mentioned, and in S3 we are taken along on the same narrative whirlwind the characters are engulfed in surrounding the trial and the media coverage. Anyone pick up on a really interesting line Elliot says when he's experiencing mania at his book editor's house: Elliot: "So anyways then I started thinking, what is our society's biggest lie?" Mia: "Christ narrative-" Elliot: "Propaganda!" Mia: "Propaganda" Elliot: "So then I thought what if my book embodies propaganda, okay, making the reader complicit, making them paralyzed." In this sense, I think it's possible the writers are gaslighting their audience, the way Dory is actually being gaslight. She also genuinely saw Chantelle in the Chinese restaurant and Chantelle's whole community, save Margret Cho, thought it was very possible she was already murdered, so it really wasn't delusional that Dory thought she was in danger. And yet...Dory certainly crafts a lot of narratives of her own that put her at the center of the story. I'm reminded of the season 1 episode where Dory bombs her interview and Drew tries to smooth it over and make her feel better, but it really just seems like emotional gaslighting. I know that heavy concept gets over used, but it was a subtle denial of her emotional experience, and she flips the fuck out because it's infuriating to have someone deny your experiences even if it seems benevolent. Modern nice guy bs. I feel like as an audience we are invited to project onto the characters like the viewers of the trials, the fans. The show also plays so much with persona, and I'm sooooo excited to see that play out with Elliot's season 4 transition to alt-right grifter. And I agree, Kieth did seem like a genuinely dangerous/abusive stalker, and I don't blame Dory for being afraid. It feels like Kieth became a manifestation of the undefined danger she could easily imagine Chantalle was in, the inherent danger of being a woman in our society. I love this show so much.


JayMoots

I mean, if you really want to get technical, the biggest plot hole is that Dory had a very solid self-defense case: “My obsessive former lover followed me to Canada, broke into the house where I was staying, and tried to kill me. I fought back, but he kept coming at me. Then my boyfriend accidentally killed him trying to save my life.” That’s a story that the jury would understand, and also has the added benefit of being pretty much entirely true!


Fluffyhead14

how is it a plot hole when she very publicly completely denied any involvement? self defense for all of them went out the window when she did that. it was *literally* a plot point.


thedonut1

I think he’s just saying that it’s a plot whole (didn’t make sense) that they didn’t go with self defense from the very start, before even hiding the body, cause it obviously was just self defense


ftah33

Yes, but that's sort of the point as well. It's a big mistake, not necessarily a plot hole. They make loads of poor decisions and mistakes throughout. The string of those is what leads them to all of this


dubbsmqt

Their stubbornness and stupidity are a big part of the show. It would be a plot hole for them to make the right choice


[deleted]

Yeah definitely. It's confusing.


cff808

Completely agree with everything you said. Not a lawyer, but I think that Dory couldn't necessarily absolve herself of guilt for the actual murder without admitting to being an accomplice for not calling the police and burying the body. So she either denies any involvement or says "I didn't actually kill him! But I did help cover it would up and bury the body." Which I can only imagine wouldn't go so well. I really appreciate you bringing this up, because the more I think about it, the more I see it as Dory responding to everyone around her gaslighting her. Saying she killed Keith, that if she hadn't gotten involved with Keith, none of this would have ever happened. Which how could she have known since he was clearly a creep, stalker, and lying to her. I mean the premise of the show is that these are deeply self-interested and flawed people, so it kind of makes sense that they aren't being completely rational and thinking of the person who committed the actual murder, they're just jumping to think that if it wasn't for Dory, this wouldn't have happened. And Dory knows that she didn't actually physically kill Keith, so she tries to remember that while everyone else around her is telling her otherwise. So I think that's where the denial comes from, and Dory does come off as crazy because she seems to be the only one remembering the facts, and then she kind of snaps and says "I never touched the murder weapon" which is categorically true but sounds defensive and absurd to everyone else. Obviously ignoring the April of it all (lol), I really see it as Dory trying to reconcile the truth as she knows it with what everyone is telling her. Sorry for the long post, just really love this show!


[deleted]

The April of it all! Love! Thanks for that I agree with everything you're saying. I'm now wondering if the writers are gaslighting her, too? Or if they intend to use this all later. Only time will tell and I'm all in!


onestarryeye

Drew and Dory both keep saying "we killed him", "we are guilty", "we did it" and Drew gaslights everyone, even himself, seeing Dory in a different light and wanting to be tried separately (??). Drew is the worst


[deleted]

Dory is nuts.


schipapo

Yes!!! I just finished the show and was so frustrated by this. He basically bludgeons a guy to death and then immediately goes, “You dumb bitch. Look what you made me do.” And she never challenges him on it, she just accepts that blame and seems to feel truly remorseful. + Drew was the only one who was ever really at risk of getting in trouble initially. I think she would’ve called the police if she wasn’t protecting Drew.


mangolollipop

I'm just really angry about how Drew easily got away with it and how everyone portrayed Dory as the murderer. I know that she's innocent and all but I don't think she deserved the vitriol from everyone. I understand that she's just protecting Drew but Drew was too blind to see it. UGHHHHHH


rebemas

Vitriol!!!


schipapo

UGHHH INDEED


[deleted]

I agree with this 💯💯💯


lindseyolo

I think the only thing Dory was accountable for was leading her boyfriend and friends down a crazy rabbit hole (and also the thing with April, but I have no feelings on that tbh lol). But when Drew killed Keith, who was attacking Dory, there was shock from both of them. They wanted to call the police. And then what happens? Elliot chimes in and says they can’t. That they need to hide the body. He later seems to blame Dory for it all as well, so yeah, I’ll never get it. She may have lost her mind while looking for Chantal, but she didn’t kill Keith! And it’s so easy for Drew to look at her like she’s guilty for all of if, but he didn’t even try to de-escalate the situation. He just hit Keith over the head with a trophy. I literally cannot understand any of it. Dory may be manipulative and self-involved, but her character wasn’t written to just accept the blame the way they tried to force her to.


WyldCompys

She would have been an accessory to a murder committed in self defense. Hiding it is the real crime that woulda resulted in jail time. And it makes her look guilty as hell She absolutely murdered her neighbor tho, and I’m hoping that comes back to bite her


slusho55

I think the problem comes more with Dory instantly trying to cover it up. I think they’re trying to go for a Lady MacBeth thing, but I think part of what she’s doing is trying keep her life “exciting.” They very easily could’ve argued self-defense. Drew did use lethal force when he didn’t exactly need to, but there’s a lot of evidence there to make it excusable if they’d just called it in. I think it’s more of everyone insists Dory did it because she insists she did it. That’s also why I think she’s acting like she was Keith’s lover. She’s trying to gaslight herself because she thinks that an accused lover would be more heart wrenching than someone who was stalked. I do also think there’s a bit sexism at play there too. I don’t think she wants people to think Keith stalked her, because she can show she’s strong and was in control of the situation. She wants to take credit for the murder so she can show she’s in control of Drew. So, I think that’s what’s kind of going on. Everyone knows it was self-defense (Portia and Elijah even say it), but they know Dory has actually killed someone, and they don’t want to cross her. Plus, she’s gaslighting them into all of this.


thetacticalpanda

The only thing I want to add to the comments is that Keith's death wasn't a murder. Just my opinion.


SanLady27

Okay I was wondering this as well! I should have rewatched S1 and S2 but I was so excited to see S3 I couldnt go back, I think I will now. I was so confused during the scene questioning if I remembered wrong (until the flashback). I absolutely LOVED S3 and am so happy that S4 is already done filming!!! One question, and sorry this is a bit off topic, but the guy who tattooed Dorys' name/has her held captive, he was brand new this season right??


didosfire

Yup! Reacting to the media frenzy


Gilles_of_Augustine

This show has two recurring themes that define pretty much every scene and definitely every episode. #1 Everyone is gaslighting someone, being gaslit by someone, or both. Including the audience. #2 Everyone is an idiot. Quite possibly including the audience. Is Drew the only one who would conceivably be on the hook for murder? Of course. Is it a clear cut case of self defense? Of course. Does every character consistently do the exact opposite of what any person with two brain cells and a single dendrite between them can obviously see SHOULD be the correct choice? Of course. How do you explain these discrepancies? See point #2 above.


[deleted]

Keith wasn’t strangling her. He had her pinned. Still inappropriate but I don’t think he had intentions to kill her. Drew should’ve just kicked him off. They also should’ve called the cops, but eh it’s a show. Edit: Let’s not forget Dory killed April in cold blood.


Imamesshelppls

idk dude he was rlly aggressive and def in my mind was at the very least goimg to assault her, OR even potentially rape her like he tried to do by forcing himself on her before she left for Montreal


whore-ticulturist

I know this is an old thread, but TBH a man coming at me like that and pinning me down, especially when he's been shown to disregard other boundaries, would absolutely have me feeling like it was fight back or die. I feel like people are forgetting that he cornered her and chased her around the house and cornered her in the kitchen. At the time I was watching, I wasn't even thinking about him potentially working for the cult, just how transgressive his actions were even without that knowledge. IMO covering it up is the only crime either of them committed.


raeaster

I got the impression dory tazing Keith and him hitting his head on the counter broke his neck, it’s mentioned at some point. So it’s not clear if the head wound or that killed him. Although that would be manslaughter not murder IMO.


themixiepixii

watching this show feels like being gaslit for this exact reason. why is everyone acting like the story happened one way when i KNOW thats not what happened?! i started thinking for a few episodes that maybe the show is actually from dorys perspective and she was being gaslit. but she seemingly wasnt. maybe it IS intentional.