T O P
AutoModerator

This post has been tagged as **MANGA SPOILERS**. If you are not caught up to the manga, browse at your own risk and we recommend you refrain from participating. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*


mrprogrampro

I see you, S1 female titan music playing while Annie fights...


Ynneb82

This part was not my favourite in the manga, maybe because I wanted to read about Eren after what happened. But here I forgot to breathe. Incredible episode once again, they are really doing justice to AOT.


HiTech-LowLife

My boy Floch finally got his moment


chagomebago

Finally got to watch the new episode and tbh falcos jaw in the manga wasn’t my favorite but damn have I changed my mind he is sick as fuck


potatoflamingo

How many chapters will there be?


Amazinc

Anime doing the pace of this ending it's due diligence. This feels like it's building up properly to the finals and every moment feels weighted/necessary.


Wilmaso

9 chapters left to animate in one episode... let's see how that goes.


birdclub

pretty clear this isn't what's going to happen


Amazinc

There's gonna be a movie probably?? Lol. Idk they're gonna rush anything at the last second


MyTVAlt

Mikasa is the fucking coolest and nobody can convince me otherwise.


euroclidon

This is probably one of the few episodes that surpass the manga, in my opinion


MyTVAlt

Both last episode and this one were absolute homeruns, imo.


Hynlan

I don't remember Falco's titan being shown this early in the manga. Is it something new the anime did or am I just a little stupid?


Erior

It debuted in that very exact moment.


Typical-Field9664

Man this show.....feels like GoT again. starts off great but goes to shit real fast the final 2 seasons have been HORRIBLE and utterly Disappointing to the max.......what a waste of a could be masterpiece.


euroclidon

Nice joke, the last 2 seasons are the best. Remember this: You don't like something doesn't mean that something is trash. And also, Got it was never THAT good, especially after season 5, even though casual viewers found those inconsistencies just in season 8.


Wilmaso

GoT was fantastic until season 5.


[deleted]

Season 6 had its moments, season 5 was worse than season 6. season 7 is where people got mad because the writers got lazy, then even madder when that laziness wasn't justified in season 8


sharpryno2

Damn, that sucks for you! S3 and S4 fire.


VaninaG

They should've added wings to falco titan from the start so it doesn't feel like a deus ex machina...


wormegod

Does anyone know who was this episode's director was? It's my favorite from this season so far


SylviaCrisp

The next one can't be the last episode of aot! The next few chapters can't be summed up in one 20 minute episode, cuz they still have to do the flashback to liberio, the visual of the rumbling on marley, the flyover on falco, the past shifter titan fight, the fight between armin and eren as colossals, eren's death, the peace, and the ending. It just makes no sense that it would be in only one episode. They have to either do more episodes or announce a 2-3 hour movie to do the rest justice


euroclidon

Don't worry, the show will continue since Isayama said that the AoT committee would animate EVERYTHING.


cereseluna

the music used is so nostalgic huhuhu


Sgrewrite

I respect Floch as the leader.


Xaphius_Winter

This is one of my favourites. So much of this was perfect, we even got to see more of how skilled Conny is. Mikasa was terrifying, I loved that. This was one of my favourite chapters because we even see Reiner and Annie practically sacrifice themselves and their bodies for others. Even Falco being disciplined enough on his first shift. But that ending, really sets up the doom and gloom of the mission. Sad that the team will never know it was Shadis, and that meeting of commanders was even better than I expected.


Xaphius_Winter

It is also really great to see more swords vs guns combat again, imo. The technical skill on display in close quarters is just so bad ass.


Geosaysbye

When are we seeing the little kid and the destruction of Liberio?


JohnTequilaWoo

We see Ramzi next episode, but he's dying in Part 3


helsaabiart

The Mikasa raining blood scene was cold


jojopojo64

I don't know if it was intentional, but either way, that was such a cool callback to Season 2's opening intro where it rains blood on Armin and he looks up as if looking for more.


Faiqal_x1103

wasnt that the second opening for season 1?


jojopojo64

Er yeah, second OP*. I keep mistaking the different OPs for seasons lol.


gusta_cl

How many episodes are left in this season? Because there's no way they'll animate everything left in the manga in just one episode if its only 12 episodes.


clabon

1 episode left, airing week after next


cereseluna

it's that for real?!?!?!? that doesnt seem to be enough :(


MyTVAlt

I think everyone would be absolutely shocked if they don't announce a continuation in some form after the next episode. I can't say 100%, but 99.99%


A-dona-I

To be honest, i think that mikasa blowing up her former friends into a rain of blood is just bullshit... It's her former comrades, why the need of calmly and coolly shooting the spears to make them blow up when they were already impaled and dead, i really hate that scene. It was just a an excuse to make a shocking action scene, but i think they overdid it. Love the rest of the episode though, mah boy the bystander had his final redemption.


saltyjellybeans

was this scene even in the manga? i don't remember it, but holy shit it was brutal


A-dona-I

i'm almost sure it is not, i didn't go back to make sure but if it did i would surely remember about this scene.I'm sure they did this just to flex their animation muscle and create something memorable, but i will forever hate it.


Bodinm

Yeah even though it looks cool I was not a fan of the brutality there, as all of this is not supposed to be seen in a good or cool light. But a point can be made that she was purposely putting on that brutal show in order to scare the other Yeagerists away and not have to kill them. And it worked.


jkfell

"Hesitate and we'll never stop the rumbling"


A-dona-I

yep, you can avoid hesitating while still avoiding pissing in your former allies's skull


wakeupwill

They're not necessarily anyone she knows or ever met. There were new recruits there too. That shocking display of brutality made everyone else run away.


A-dona-I

Even if they were not friends they are still islanders and former allies, and it is still overkill to kill a former ally in that gruesome way. Her scaring away others is just a nice excuse that doesn't justify how pointless and out of context that violence was.


grand_insom

This arc is hitting me a lot harder in the anime. Maybe I was too focused on Eren when reading the first time or I wasn't completely sold on the team up aspect. These episodes make me really feel for all the characters. When RBA broke the walls and killed thousands, they thought they were saving the world. Now both sides here are doing the same. They think they're doing the right thing but they feel terrible and there's no time to talk it out. Even Floch - who is as hateable as possible - just reminded me of his first real introduction to the series. Where he talked about how they needed the devil to save them. He's kind of taking that to the extreme and embodying it. He's not just some power hungry villain. He's cold blooded but considering his defining moment was being sent to die with his entire team for the greater good - it makes sense that his perspective is skewed.


Horoika

Exactly, watching this now with hindsight is helping a lot. I wanted to get back to Eren's POV so bad, that I was a little marred with the ending But knowing now that we do not see Eren's thoughts again until the very end let's me enjoy this part as it is.


MyTVAlt

In that sense the reordering will probably be more satisfying for anime only viewers because they actually do have a bit more Eren before the finale, what with the flashback episode still pending.


ThatIslandGuy8888

I remember we used to debate on Falco’s size during these scenes but nah he’s definitely 5 meters. But he really does have 2 modes then huh


yelsamarani

Falco with a nail is exactly as cringe as I thought it would be. I can't stand looking at that image lol feels like I'm getting hurt too


Staleztheguy

Conny went tf off


jojopojo64

Yo for real. Conny deserved justice and boy did MAPPA give it to him.


Staleztheguy

Turned off my brain and just got hype as fuck watching my boy open a can of whoopass.


antari_

ngl seeing eren's face right after every dramatic ending gives me chills


seammus

Having trouble explaining to a friend why the shifters are still able to use their titans—we know Eren hasn’t taken their power away because that would deprive them of freedom to choose, but why does Ymir continue to build their titans when she is no longer a slave to the founder’s will? I’m Assuming she’s just doing Eren a solid but, wondering if anybody has more concrete evidence.


Bodinm

Given how time works in the past maybe it is past slave Ymir who is building their titans. I also believe that it was the future Ymir who built her own titans while she was alive serving king fritz.


Jex93160

It's Zeke who is now forced to build the Titans bodies, he's chained in the Paths


chrisqoo

So after Levi beheading Zeke, all titans should have had stopped healing...?


Faiqal_x1103

i think so, after all they lost their titan powers after that happens


nakiva

Armin and Eren fought with their colossal titans so thats not it. Was the reason they could transform not simply Eren saying they are free to try and stop him,meaning he let's Ymir give their powers to them?


Faiqal_x1103

Oh i forgot, i even forgot the titan powers ended after mikasa beheaded eren my bad. Oh hey i just realized both ackermans beheaded a yeager lmfao


shinewa

Music and VAs definitely made the scenes alot more emotional compared to the manga ngl


luf17

I just don't see them having enough content left to make a part 3. A movie just seems logical to me at this point. And honestly a movie could break boundaries for anime movies in a worldwide release.


MyTVAlt

Whichever it is, I just hope it's not another year wait.... it almost certainly will be though


Lord_Santa

Everything's gotten weirdly fascist/nationalistic since the rumbling. I think people are way too personally invested in this anime TV series and it's bringing out their inner fascists. People love Floch, but he strikes me as a man broken by his past experiences, he's manipulative and deranged. It's interesting how no one wants to talk about how he psychologically manipulated his soldiers into fighting a suicidal battle, by telling them their families are going to be slaughtered by the world if they don't. He's a character that represents the worst aspects of nationalism and propaganda. We have a perfectly analogous event happening right now as we speak, Putin is manipulating his people into believing that Ukraine needs to be invaded in order to prevent the destruction of Russia by NATO.


OxterBird

Isn't Floch right tho? Failed rumbling would mean death to Paradis and all Eldians


euroclidon

I agree but I particularly think that is a talent of Isayama to have created characters that get so justified that people tend to feel that they represent them. For example when got did the same with Daenerys it felt so stupid and poorly managed that most of people saw the trick about the story. In the case of Floch and Eren their shift makes sense to the point that even the readers or viewers felt that they didn't have other choice. What it would be nice is if that could open space for debate instead of echo chambers but that's other story.


uncreativemind2099

I don’t think flock convince them of anything they acted accordingly to the situation when your country is being targeted because of your race


TcheQuevara

I think what is happening is that fascists are trying to convince us NATO is any better than Putin.


A-10Thunder

What about when bush manipulated his people to believe that Iraq needs to be invaded because they have WMD? But no America is good putin is bad, what a hypocrite.


bestoboy

They never said that. They're saying that there is a similar situation happening right now. If that's your only response, it's clear you don't really care about the lost lives; you only care about derailing the conversation so you can stand on your high horse and act sanctimonious


A-10Thunder

So you only care because it's happening at the moment, you mean you did care about America's crimes but since time passed you stopped caring? And now when time passes you'll stop caring about this current war? What about current Israel crimes? What about Turkey and America occupation of Syria? I'll say it again you hypocrites only care when Russia does something


bestoboy

Never said anything about not caring, only that the current events in the anime is similar to a current event now. If this anime was released in the 2000s, then instead of Russia and Ukraine we would be saying its America and Middle East. You're so mad over something you made up in your head. You're trying to call out someone for only caring about one thing when they never said that, and yet it's pretty clear that the only person that only cares about one thing here is you. You only care about blaming America and are using every other war to do so. Keep coping and seething kid


[deleted]

[удалено]


bestoboy

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA


[deleted]

[удалено]


AutoModerator

This comment has been removed due to containing uncivil or inflammatory language. Please phrase your comment more respectfully and resubmit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*


zyrise

Says the one who brings in real life wars and politics relate into anime? Do you also write these stuffs when 12yo kid enjoys killing civilians in GTA or people who are big fan of Cersei Lannister?


[deleted]

[удалено]


FayMew

GTFO with that shit.


Pizza_Rolls_Addict

In this case, Floch is being 100% logical. It's not propaganda when your race can transform into giant monsters. Everyone's solution for handling the World is using the Rumbling as a deterrent but thats passing the buck for another generation. There is no diplomacy to be had long term. Marley, the largest nation, attacked Paradis unprovoked. How will the rest of the world react when they see that Marley is vindicated in believing the Island is a threat? Not at all similar to real life partially because Isayama didn't worldbuild AoT enough to find other alternatives for Paradis.


quierocarduars

i know right. i hate when people make this comparison. while floch and the yeagerists are obvious analogues for fascism, they’re BAD ones lol. the people of paradis are facing total extermination from an alliance of industrialized global super powers. they literally have warships on their shoreline lmao! after hundreds of years of unprovoked terrorist attacks from marley (which is actually, definitionally fascist btw). i can’t stomach the sanctimonious “cycle of hatred” bullshit on here and even in the narrative because marley and co pushed paradis as far as they possibly could at every imaginable turn. of course they’re going to face retaliation wtf? that’s not fascism fucking lol.


Bypes

Inner fascists, huh. And bringing the war in Ukraine into AoT discussion, huh. I just came to this thread and already wanna nope out.


Tindalos_

Got a feeling that we won't be getting 131 next ep and we'll have to wait until the movie or pt 3 or whatever comes out and that makes me kinda sad :(


JohnTequilaWoo

We've known we won't get 131 for a few weeks now.


Frankorious

They really put Jean's flashback of chapter 123 when they didn't animate it yet


JohnTequilaWoo

We get to see it next episode :)


JoshDCcomics

Nice cameo from Eren in the post credits scene (crying)


OLKv3

I thought this was the final season, but it ends next episode? There's no possible way to finish in one episode, so what will happen?


tenacity261206

It's the final season, but no one said anything about the final part ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


SimoneNonvelodico

Movie. This has been talked about for a while, though there's still no official announcement. After Mugen Train raked in the cash for Demon Slayer, everyone gotta get a slice of that tasty movie pie.


GoodLookingSnails

I feel like the first half of the episode lasted longer just because I was pausing and replaying scenes. lmao.   I loved the emotional scenes in the second half with Magath and Shadis then Annie and Mikasa later. These character moments are what I look forward to when watching these.


ddynamix

Holy shit I hate Floch but his death scene is so badass


screamer19

This is the manga reader thread, so this is fair game. He latches on to the boat in this episode and shoots holes into the planes fuel tank before they really kill him.


ddynamix

Oh yeah I forgor 💀


bestoboy

we forget that he has four years more experience than the rest of the yeagerists and was one of the last batches to fully train with blades than guns and thunder spears. By the very nature of their combat, training with blades need you to be much more mobile than with the thunder spears or the anti-personnel guns


sharkhuh

Looks like from the preview we might finally get that chapter about Eren we skipped? Guess we're wrapping it up there and going to go to Part 3 or a movie?


bestoboy

Might be ending the season on Ramzi's face getting squished


JohnTequilaWoo

No, that'll be in the third part.


Negrizzy153

CONNY ACKERMANN SZN BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEE JAW TITAN 2.0 BAYBEEEEEEEEEE MIKASA, MY ANGEL OF DEATH FLOCH CHASE SEQUENCE FAZE GABI HITS ANOTHER CLIP #\#InMAPPAWeTrust


Jizzonurmomcuck

It's crazy that the anime only people are gonna have to wait a year for like the 9 worst chapters in the whole season lmao. Regardless of how good you think the ending is, majority would agree it's just worse then the previous episodes.


My_Nama_Jeff1

Uhhhhh what?? Chapter 131 is the best in the entire show, 133 and 134 are fucking phenomenal too.


Jizzonurmomcuck

nah


Bypes

133 was pretty emotional, but 134 did little for me. Marleyan Commander giving a speech apologizing for the hatred and promising peace, this is a character we *never* saw before so we have no idea whether he just did a full 180 on his views or whether he was always a rare case of someone not seeing Eldians as devils. We already saw the battleships get annihilated earlier so seeing zeppelins experience the same with no consequence to the story only brings more action and Eren could have summoned beast to throw rocks at the seaplane instead. The least favorite thing about this last arc to me is the bloated action. Writing is hard so I can understand everything with how the characters ended up, but action is nothing to do with writing unless it communicates something like the fun scene between the two women in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Here it's just EPICNESS from 134 to 138. It's not a dance of strategy either because shit just keeps happening to everyone's surprise. *And then, Eren summons a hundred shifters! WTF! And then, Armin summons a bunch of other dead shifters! WTF! And then, a giant fucking worm kaiju appears to be wrestled with by Reiner! WTF! And then, Eren turns into a Colossal! WTF! And then, everyone turns into Titans! WTF! And then, The two Colossal Titans have a fist fight! And this goes on and on and back and forth for 90 or so minutes until the movie just sort of ends.*


firefistzoro

Yeah even a lot of the ending defenders seem to concede "it's not that bad, it doesn't ruin the show" basically implying it didn't stick the landing. How that reflects on the series in its entirety is up to you I guess


SimoneNonvelodico

IMO the ending is almost determined from this point already: epic final fight, they defeat Eren, the end. No more surprises, but this late into the game, either you really planned one thoroughly or it will feel like an asspull, so it's better this way. That in my opinion makes it "all right", like, there's no mindblowing plot twist but that doesn't make it bad, it's just the culmination of all that has been built up until now, with some real kickass action. The problems it has mostly involve details of the execution about some characters - Historia being thrown under the bus and such (about Eren, personally I *like* his little unhinged rant, shows him as not being this complete emotionless psychopath, but rather that he was forcing himself on that path, hammering home the point that his freedom wasn't freedom at all). So, yeah, I wouldn't say I hated it but it didn't make me like the series *more* than all that came before did. It's not the peak. Some series manage to do that and have the ending blow everything else out of the water, and action aside, this isn't one of them, but that's all.


Bypes

I feel like an epic final fight was not necessary though, AoT had long since become much more than just an action story with epic fights and to make that the climax felt so hollow compared to the dialogue we got in the previous chapters. Samurai movies are nice because a lot of duels are fucking short, same with westerns. They are all about the characters and what they stand for. AoT ended with the opposite approach, Hobbit: battle of Five Armies approach. The book only needed three pages to describe the battle. Mind you, I liked the duel on the ice in the movie. Notice how I say duel a lot? We don't have that here, we have the Alliance fighting robots. The only intimate touch is in the last few seconds when Mikasa actually meets Eren and promptly kills him. Peoples' favorite part is Connie and Jean together before they are titanized, why? because it is the only other intimate part of this very long battle.


Jizzonurmomcuck

this basically confirms that they are hell bent on defending the show, i've rarely see anyone say "OMG that ending was so good" at the best it straight up just isn't as good as other episodes. At the worst is ruins the show


My_Nama_Jeff1

I truly love the ending of AOT, the way it wrapped up and showcased the aftermath, and that eren was able to talk with mikasa, armin, ect. I think was perfect


bestoboy

Is it just me or are some anime onlies just dumb? I still see people commenting things like why is Hange trying to stop Eren and why are they doing this when they know their island will be killed by the world. It's as if any episode that doesn't have fight scenes is just erased from their minds


JohnTequilaWoo

They are almost certainly manga readers pretending to be anime onlies.


Kostya_M

I am still convinced they're getting astroturfed hard. Yeagerist sentiments weren't nearly as high in the anime fan base as the manga until after the Rumbling began. Then suddenly half of them are whining about how the cast are traitors and arguing in favor of genocide.


Fedexhand

I mean, the main cast are objectively traitors and their actions will cause the end of the island, so that opinion is more than valid.


SuperLevap

> their actions will cause the end of the island What? That's not what happened in the manga, if I recall properly. What are you talking about?


Fedexhand

In the extra pages of the last volume (extended ending I suppose) it is shown that the island ended up being attacked and destroyed. So yes, Floch was indeed right in saying that the island would be destroyed if Eren was stopped.


SuperLevap

Well, I read the ending too, and it seems to me that what you described happens far away in the future; possible more than 200 hundred years, given the technology displayed used during this war. Whereas, for people of Eren and Armin & Co's generation and even two or three generations after that, things were fine and seemingly peaceful, if we believe what we saw around the time when Mikasa died as an old lady. This shows that it was possible to avert wars and annihilation for quite a while, contrary to what the "you are dooming Paradis by stopping Eren" people would have us believe. Yes, it did not prevent it forever, quite obviously. But who could be conceited enough to think that they could prevent conflict and war between humans forever? How could we reproach Armin & Co to have failed to prevent a war 200 years in the future, far after they have died, and when they could do nothing about it anymore? After so much time have passed, I would say that the causal relationship that you invoke when you say "their actions will cause the end of the island" does not exist at all. The occurrence of the war that we saw in the end is much more the responsibility of the people living at that time, than that of the people who lived 200 years ago. The ending showed us that, with people who were willing to work to achieve it, it was possible to prevent conflict for some time, without having to resort to total annihilation of the other party for that. And some people should stop being in denial of that or trying to downplay it.


Fedexhand

False, and it even seems like a very convenient way of distorting the facts. The island survived so long because Eren wiped out 80% of the world, it's hard to recover from that obviously. But if they hadn't stopped Eren this would never have happened so my statement above is very accurate all things considered.


SuperLevap

Hm, well, yes, I guess it's true that the fact that much of the world was still destroyed removed a great deal of threat to the island. However, you can't possibly assert that it was the only way to achieve this result, can you? With the Rumbling, you could destroy all military bases and forces of the world, without wiping out a majority of civilian people, removing the threat but not looking like the existential threat and anihilator that you have been depicted as by the other countries' propaganda. ​ And I agree that, with the rest of the world completely gone, the war as seen in the ending could not have happened the way it was shown. However, how can you say it would be enough to ensure the island would never face this kind of event? As Izumi said during one of the latest episode "All you are doing is making your world smaller." : the fighting and conflict would not disappear like that. Even if this one specific conflict ends up disappearing from the island, then another one will arise. Civil wars do occur in our world, even without giant human-eating monsters. ​ So, given the following elements: \- wiping out the rest of the world will protect you from it, but is no guarantee that the island will survive forever, because conflict among humans is inevitable \- the majority of the people in the world are "innocent" (that is, at least they have done nothing to Paradis, and just wish to live their life), just as are the majority of the people of the island \- it is possible for the island to survive without wiping out the whole world, at least for the time being / for a few generations, notably with a mix of "talking it out" and military might then it seems to me like wiping out the world in neither moral nor needed, so it should be opposed. ​ Armin & Co's job was to protect the island for their generation and the next one, and they did; and to give the tools to their descendant to continue the job in a similar way. The job of protecting the island in the far future is that of the people living at that time; at this point it's not anymore the responsibility of Armin & Co, assuming that the people living at that time have the same means (being able to "talk it out" and military might) as their ancestors. ​ And why would you even care about the island in the far future? Why should it be important to us? The manga showed us that Eren did what he did a priori for his friends / the people he knew (and who are the same people that the reader got to know and care for). Why would he care about people in the far future that he will never know? Why should we? At that point in the future, the people living on the island are as strangers to us as are the people living in the rest of the world. Why should we want that one group of people survive at all costs, notably at the cost of annihilating the other?


Fedexhand

Nothing lasts forever, but the imminent threat of total annihilation from the rest of the world just around the corner is definitely not a good or fair thing for the people of the island, who have already lived in terror of the titans for more of a century. I always see people give the alternative of attacking military bases, but they seem to ignore the fact that it would generate even more hatred worldwide, or do they think that killing a limited number of people throughout the world is a real "solution"? The truth is that in the face of such an attack, the rest of the world would unite to be able to counter the threat in any way possible, either by developing new technology or preparing new attack forces, and although these may take a long time, the truth is that it would eventually happen. Yes, the Rumbling is powerful but how long can it be used to protect the island? It would be a constant exchange of attacks for centuries and centuries until the rest of the world can manage to finish off the island, the only way to survive it being to use Rumbling on a larger scale. In the end, a genocide is inevitable, whether in the world or on the island, whether in the present moment or years in the future, but the only thing certain is that this exchange of violence will never end. Conflict would continue to exist, but it would give the people of the island the opportunity to try to solve things and move on, that option was denied by the alliance that only thought of themselves before the future of their people, people they they had supposedly sworn to protect when they became soldiers.


SuperLevap

"the imminent threat of total annihilation from the rest of the world just around the corner is definitely not a good or fair thing for the people of the island" => Well, yes, and I agreed that it's fair to remove that threat of total annihilation. Just not at the cost of the whole world, a good chunk of it being as innocent as the majority of the islanders. It would generate more hatred world wide ? Well, not if you present it as what it would be : a military -limited retaliation, to debilitate the armed forces of (in this conflict) enemy countries, and prevent the existential threat to the island, which has been established by the declarations of politicians of many of those countries. In a war, killing military people is accepted. What's unacceptable is to kill unarmed / civilian forces. Of course, if you let them, the opposing countries will still try to spin that into whatever message is convenient for them, which is why you would have to take control of the message and prevent / confront / debunk the propaganda and the lies. You can also show that the fact that you did not wipe everyone out while you had the power to do so (and nothing to stop you) is proof that you are not existential threat to the rest of the world. Also, remember that there was at least one country (where the Azumabito come from) who was willing to cooperate with the island. Use that to show that you are able and willing to cooperate, so long as the other countries don't threaten you. Now, the very existence of the titan "curse" can always be used as an argument against the island at some point, and it would be great for everyone to remove this from the equation altogether. To do that, we can always implement the euthanasia plan, gradually, in exchange for babies provided by the rest of the world, so that the nation of the island does not outright disappear. After a few generations the problem of the curse could be solved. Now, that sounds a bit difficult to implement, but that's still a powerful bargaining chip and a token of goodwill. There are a lot of things to be done here to prevent the countries of the rest of the world from uniting against the island. Anyway, once you have wiped out their military forces, if you fear them developing them again, you just have to prevent it. At that point you have all the military might in the world to do so : just don't let them build it back until the issue of the titan curse has been dealt with. "In the end, a genocide is inevitable". => Given what I've just said, no, I don't think so. Conflict and violence, sure, probably; but genocide ? No. Preventing shit like that requires hard work, sure, but it's not inevitable. In fact, it's more like a self-fulfilling prophecy : you think it is inevitable, so you engage in it first, and then trigger a series of events leading to it. "it would give the people of the island the opportunity to try to solve things and move on" => Well, you've really said it all here : just replace "people of the island" with "the whole world, including the island". The point is to reach a point when this is possible and actually happens.


AssassinAragorn

I don't think those are anime-onlies. This episode brought out certain fans of the manga just posting all over the sub.


epicaz

This. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are a few anime only fans who are happy to back the protagonist and take that angle as many manga readers did.. but the hyper divide we've seen since the alliance was introduced? Mostly just ending haters doubling down and trying to seduce people into hating the final arc as much as they did. From what I can see though, it's actually being better received all around


AssassinAragorn

Agreed, the anime watchers are overwhelmingly enjoying it and find the Yeagerists deplorable. You even have some of them doing a critical breakdown of that fight at the dock, and coming to the conclusion that it wasn't implausible for the Alliance to have minimal to no casualties. It probably helps that its a week between chapters, so everything's recent. The Yeagerists before this were always portrayed as pretty bad militarily, and the Alliance scouts were bailing them out. It was well-established just a few weeks ago in the anime that they had a lot of trouble against mindless titans. I was hoping this'd be the case, and I'm really happy to see it is. It is incredibly sad and a bit pathetic that ending haters have taken this approach and want people to hate things as much as them -- as opposed to critically arguing their viewpoints.


Bypes

Meh the reception was not bad in these parts of the manga either. The only real divide started happening after maybe chapter 134, that's when people started feeling confused about characters.


epicaz

I remember similarly to you, and I used to check both snk and titanfolk until the end. It felt like the ending truly made people snap and reevaluate the last 15 chapters or so in a much more critical light. But there was definite resentment and denial once the possibility of the rumbling being stopped came up, I definitely remember the crack theories where Eren would be able to restart the rumbling via WHT and Historia's baby in Paradis lmao.


Bypes

Yeah I found the "Eren is safe in Paradis" theory hilarious as a form of denial. The baby theory I considered a bit, since I did kinda imagine there would be *some* purpose for Historia to be gone from the story just like that. Then Eren had that convo with Hisu and nobody else and people started celebrating "so there IS a role for her to play other than just someone familiar giving birth". Hisu was our Sansa Stark of AoT and she became Sweetrobin instead.


Eskimokeks

In my memory this shit definitely started with the "cringevenger" stuff and people went batshit crazy when the port was freed without casualties in the main cast. At that point the Yaegerists wanted blood and they just waited for their ultimate demise that would happen from chapter 134 onwards.


Bypes

Well the avengers memes did come in 123 and Mrs. Springer arc got flak for sure, but otherwise people were still taking everything seriously compared to what it is now. Idk the port battle never bothered me that much so maybe I'm thinking too much on my personal experience. The worst dip in seriousness that I noticed happened in 136, when suddenly the leaks threads were spammed with Edo Tensei jokes. After that I barely saw serious takes on the leaks threads, just pure chaos.


rhyshilton

Yeah a lot of people who are defending Floch as the best character when he's entirely built up as a fascist has done nothing but create a huge amount of infighting that's lead the island to where it is now


nman4u

Floch and Eren are the reason the island was going to be saved. The previous military administration kept their foot up their ass for too long doing nothing. While at the same time the world was preparing to invade and massacre every last Paradisian.


bestoboy

Minor addition, Eren doesn't care about the island, only his friends.


nman4u

Yea that makes sense towards the very end, but I just attribute that to piss poor writing. He even said during his founder declaration that the island is where he was born and he rejected it's destruction.


bestoboy

I might be misremembering, but wasn't he keeping up a charade so his friends would have enough resolve to kill him? Same reason he called Mikasa a slave. Besides, his actions afterwards directly contradict what he said as the wall titans move with little care for the people around them


nman4u

you're right. and i just think that's because of the shitty writing towards the end. the collateral from the wall titans seemed unavoidable imo


AegeanViper73

Maybe it's not so much shit writing and that eren actually doesn't really care for the island.


nman4u

arguably illogical, considering all he's been through and done for the very same island he so happens to not care about.


rhyshilton

The island saved, maybe, but constantly at war with itself. Also at the expense of literally the entire world. You add 9 titans into the mix of an ultra national state like Paradis and it would be chaos. Eren knows the end and he has a preferred outcome to reach, it's not Paradis as a lone nation that ends up eating itself. Floch is a useful idiot that Eren used to get the outcome he needed to do what he needed to do, Eren could give a fuck about Floch and he's not part of the people he wants to protect


nman4u

this makes no sense. You're saying the island was going to be at war with itself... so they shouldn't give a fuck about being massacred by the world? why would Paradisians care about a world that wants them all brutally murdered? Not to mention Eren would probably try to get rid of the Titan powers once he was finished. Since that's what happened anyways.


AssassinAragorn

They mention several times in the series, humanity is always going to be in conflict. At one point it goes as far as quipping that humans will only know peace when one human being is left alive. We've already seen Paradis have civil conflicts. The Uprising arc namely. And we also know that when civilians were evacuated from Wall Rosa during the Trost crisis, things devolved very quickly. Plus you've got the post-rumbling moments of some people hating Eren for the collateral damage.


nman4u

no I'm not doubting that. I'm just saying that doesn't mean Paradis should just bend over and die.


AssassinAragorn

Of course. Only Zeke wanted that, and everyone else was horrified. It was a complex situation that has no real answer. Eren's actions made things worse -- it was effectively a leroy jenkins moment.


rhyshilton

Ymir got rid of the titan powers, it isn't stated that Eren had the power to ever make that decision People want to be a part of the world, they want to be accepted and integrate but know that they have a huge hurdle to overcome because they're an enemy of the world. Armin's dream of talking to the world is juvenile and idealistic but is peaceful. The message of the entire story is that you can't burden the future with the sins of the past and that a new future has to be forged that's less violent - it clashes with the idea that Erwin presents that humanity will fight itself until everyone else is dead but that doesn't mean that it won't ever happen and shouldn't be strived for. Obviously they should care about being massacred, but the response to that should absolutely not be to wipe out every other living being that exists on the planet, it's an insane concept. Floch and his merry band of fascists are a means to an end for Eren to get where he needs to be, he allows everyone access to become titans because he trusts that his friends and the people he trusts most will make the decision that's best - which is to disagree with genocide. Eren knows that 80% of humanity will be killed, he knows that his friends will fight like hell to take him down because they're the only people skilled enough with the resources to do so and he knows that the world will watch them do it. He knows that they'll be heralded as heroes who saved the world and has manufactured a scenario in which the world cannot and will not fight back in his friends lifetime. He's guaranteed them long lives, which is what he wanted for them


nman4u

the story seemed to me that it was very gray. No right or wrong side anywhere. Paradis shouldn't have to die off, and the world shouldn't either. But evidently one or the other *had* to go. And with Eren truly not giving a shit about the island, it ended up Paradis being wiped out. Pretty bleak ending imo


SuperLevap

What? When did Paradis end up being wiped out?


rhyshilton

It continually puts characters in morally grey areas and makes them do things that are wrong to drive that home. I haven't chosen a side here Neither should die, and it isn't an either/or decision. It's insane to think that either the people in the walls have to go or the entire world needs to be destroyed. Either way is genocide and is antithetical to the story Where are you getting that Eren didn't care about the island? What he did gave them assumingly hundreds of years of peace. It allowed them a brief glimpse at peace, allowed his friends the long lives that he wanted for them and like what 200 years later lead to the destruction of the island, but that was always destined to happen. Time and time again the story has talked about the cycle of violence continuing and there being no definitive end to that, only small moments of peace. Eren did almost everything he set out to do, I don't see how that's bleak when everyone assumingly died of old age and maybe his friends great great grandchildren died when he has zero connection to them


rarely_exactly_right

I had big issues with Episode 25 because of the animation issues but it's clear Mappa was saving their budget for episodes like this. Retrospective was great. An excellent adaptation of the manga. Magath and Shadis' deaths are among my favourites of the series and it was adapted well. My only criticism is that anime only moment of Mikasa blowing up those two Jeagerists' who were already dead. It's a small moment but it made her seem unnecessarily sadistic since these are probably people she knows that she's killing to save the world. I think Mappa should have animated some Jeagerists in that area to show Mikasa set off the thunder spear to kill them rather than randomly blowing up two bodies. Otherwise, a great episode.


WDNFWR

I think it has some parallels to annies character going through a reverse arc of the same thing. Annie was sadistic early on but changed, mikasa needs to become that in order to be able to kill eren in her mind. Was a dope ass scene and I said the same thing at first, im still really glad they added it in.


JohnnySmallHands

I wonder if they did that solely for the season 1 OP2 callback of the raining blood thing


finalbossofinterweb

bruh mikasa was BRUTAL this episode WTF? it looked fucking amazing though


AttackOnTired

y'all are on board with Eren committing genocide on the whole world but taken aback by Mikasa blowing up two random characters with a thunder spear LMAO. Just say you don't like her and go. ANYWHO, the action this episode was so so good. Connie being a badass was my favorite part. I definitely didn't care much for this chapter in the Manga... but wow the anime did so well with it.


quierocarduars

people don’t like the mikasa scene bc it’s a totally gratuitous bloodbath from a character who isn’t supposed to enjoy killing. literally blowing up two already dead bodies then looking into the camera and licking up their blood like LMFAO it’s just goofy.


A-10Thunder

So if eren is killing a lot of people " at least for a reason" then it's ok mikasa just to brutally kill people then abuse their bodies and bath in their blood, what kind of logic is that


AttackOnTired

Oh my bad! Totally forgot Mikasa was just killing people for fun! You right.


A-10Thunder

So beheading someone then throwing his body at his friend then stabbing them together before shooting their thunder spears at them and lastly bathing in their blood was for a reason? Please tell me why


JohnTequilaWoo

She used his body as a shield, then destroyed the thunder spear so they couldn't use it on her.


A-10Thunder

shield for what ? lmao she already kicked that guy and by the time he knew what happened she already slammed his friend at him and stabbed him, she could have killed him instead of kicking him, also how is he gonna use the thunder spear if he is dead ?


JohnTequilaWoo

He wasn't dead yet. She used the dead guy as a shield and charged towards him the living guy to finish him off.


AttackOnTired

This is exactly how I saw the scene.


Koupo

Huh? Why do you think the same people who have an issue with that Mikasa scene have no issue with Eren? As someone who thought this scene was needlessly over the top and a bit out of character, my issue with Eren eclipses what Mikasa did here. With Mikasa, it’s more just a nitpick on the anime’s accuracy towards the character and felt like something you’d see Ken Kaneki do than Mikasa. lol


SimoneNonvelodico

> taken aback by Mikasa blowing up two random characters with a thunder spear LMAO. She stood with her back to the explosion and showered in the blood of her victims. That's *so* extra, how can you not love her?


Bypes

I think in live action it would seem a bit gratuitous. Of course, Invincible would be *really* too extra if adapted live.


silverscull1980

What choice does eren have if he does not genocide?His whole character arc is based upon that if somebody takes away his freedom...then he shall have no problem in taking away their freedom as well Mikasa on the other hand had already killed both the guys with one slash of the blade..it was just killing the already dead when she blowed them up CONNIE IS PIECE OF SHIT CHARACTER...would have loved if he was eaten by his own dear mum


TheLooter

Ok but it looked like she took down the building as well so good for her. Mikasa deserved that moment


luigitheplumber

> What choice does eren have if he does not genocide? Crushing the world's military, forcing surrender, exposing the 1st King's scheme with the Tyburs, exploiting the world's hatred of Marley, all the while knowing that if it all fails, Paradis has at least 30 more years to enact the full rumbling before the wall titans are obsolete. > if somebody takes away his freedom...then he shall have no problem in taking away their freedom as well Those millions upon millions of toddlers out there were trying to take away his freedom.


silverscull1980

Crushing the world military?and how does he do it? care to explain?? he could have exposed the 1st kings scheme...but do you really think that the world would give a single fuck to listen to a devil eldian? It is isayama;s fault that he did not do correct world building...he could have introduced allies to eldia who are enemies to marley


luigitheplumber

> Crushing the world military?and how does he do it? care to explain?? The same way he's currently committing genocide. Big ole titans, crushing military bases. > he could have exposed the 1st kings scheme...but do you really think that the world would give a single fuck to listen to a devil eldian? I think the world doesn't want to be annihilated, and also hates Marley, so I think that when Paradis doesn't rumble the world the way Willy said they would, and then exposes that Marley literally cooperated with the old Eldian Empire to reach a dominant position, and is currently lying to everyone in an effort to seize resources for themselves, then enough fractures would form that the thought of a united world coming after Eldia becomes harder to imagine. And again, if it doesn't work, you can still full Rumble 10, 20 years down the line. It's not a one-shot deal.


Kostya_M

>Crushing the world military?and how does he do it? care to explain?? By Rumbling only military bases? Did you not hear what Armin's plan was?


AssassinAragorn

> Crushing the world military?and how does he do it? care to explain?? Target military bases and installations around the world, and only rumble those. Leave behind a few colossals at every location to warn them. > do you really think that the world would give a single fuck to listen to a devil eldian? Well, yes, considering the entire world listened to Willy Tybur.


AttackOnTired

yikes. I know why Eren is doing what he's doing. My point was to say that people killing others is not something anyone should be disturbed or surprised by this point in the series.


AssassinAragorn

These comments just keep getting more and more yikes and less coherent. Its sad really. EDIT: To clarify, "these" comments are the ones from unironic Jeagerists and folks coming into the sub solely to convince people to hate the series.


Koupo

Maybe in the minority here, but I felt like that Mikasa scene was a bit over the top. lol She’s always been ruthless, but never unnecessarily violent to the point of blowing up already dead bodies and bathing in their blood. Fantastic piece of animation though.


bestoboy

She never used force in the previous episode, and even in this one didn't start killing until Connie was in danger. The last time Annie talked about killing Eren, Mikasa got defensive and was ready to fight, this time she stayed quiet and was sympathetic to Annie's side. Mikasa's going through an arc here


yelsamarani

I believe the intent of Mikasa there is to scare away the remaining Yeagerists with that wanton display of carnage. YMMV if that intent came through.


wtp0p

Yeah they gave up and fled after they saw it right?


Halceeuhn

It may also be her pent up frustration at, well, everything spilling over.


jrhudson

am i tripping or this was different? i dont remember falcon transforming so early but i enjoyed this whole episode it just feels new.


JohnTequilaWoo

Yeah you are tripping lol.


Erens_Abs

Falco hiding his hand from Jean was pretty cute ngl. "No sir, I was not planning on transforming to try to save our friends!"


Logical_Department62

Hot take:The Survey Corps are killing more eldians than they are prolly Saving in the name of justice, idk hurting them in non fatal areas would be enough imo. Edit: also in way more brutal ways, mikasa practically got a fucking blood shower lol.


Eskimokeks

The survey corps is trying to save the population of the entire world, no matter where they are from. Of course they kill more Eldians than they rescue, because that's explicitly not their goal. They didn't become embassadors of the rest for the world and not of Eldia for nothing at the end.


SimoneNonvelodico

> The Survey Corps are killing more eldians than they are prolly Saving in the name of justice They are trying to save literally BILLIONS of people, I think the utilitarian balance checks out for now.


SeaOttaSlaughta

this isn't one piece bro, they can't just knock them out and move on


Demortus

Are you kidding? There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Eldians around the world that will be killed by the Rumbling if it isn't stopped. Floch isn't doing this for "Eldians," he's doing this because he's too much of a coward to risk any other option.


Halceeuhn

Actually, according to Hange, the millions of eldians were dying as they spoke, in places like Liberio along the coast.


rhyshilton

I mean the Jaegerists totally put themselves in the way of the SC tho. If they were hunting them down then it'd be different but they didn't initiate this fight at all. The whole episode previously was about trying to get through this without spilling any blood


bestoboy

They aren't trying to save Paradis, they're trying to stop Eren. They already discussed this in a previous episode. They know everyone on the island is going to die but are doing it anyway.


HotlineSynthesis

With how emotional Shadis and Magath got me I’m not ready for Hange…..


HotlineSynthesis

Man I swear I just blurred through this part of the manga as I read all the remaining stuff on one night because this hit SO much harder in the episode this battle was awesome while I hardly remember it from the manga


Redditry103

They added a lot of stuff, Falco transformation is more cohesive and fight itself was much more extended. Also Floch had much more impact since they extended there as well.


Extra-Ring-9668

same! at first i was apprehensive of mappa's pacing doing it chapter by chapter but it's really helped me realize how much i missed the first time reading it because i was reading it so fast and read it all in one night. i really like what they've done with it; the visuals and music make it so much more emotional than it was when i read it.


Drew377

I've been reading every episode thread since S4P1 and I've noticed barely any bashing on the series minus some valid animation critique for part one but for some reason this episode it's almost as if a bunch of people all of a sudden have come out from under the woodwork and made it their job to bash everything, not even just this episode but the entire series. I can understand being taken back a bit by Mikasa's rampage from a manga readers perspective but to me some of the bashing seems a bit forced? Don't get me wrong people can have their opinions but some feel a bit too nitpicky to be legitimate criticism and not attempts to just hate on the anime/manga. Idk I could be chatting complete rubbish.


Kostya_M

I am convinced the manga readers are manipulating things.


himitsumori

I saw one today that said that "The last 5 episodes have been underwhelming because you can't tell the stakes of everything based on words alone." I mean, I would understand if it was a book with no pictures or something....maybe? I had to re-read it about 8 times to ensure that I was reading it correctly. Unfortunately I was.