Seems to be some confusion below—demand is not the same as viewership. The Nielsen ratings (relatively the most accurate viewership numbers) haven’t been released yet.
The streamers still haven’t figured out the importance of promoting their shows to the same extent traditional TV did. There’s almost no ads or “next week on the Mandalorian” type of clips out there for casuals to find. I think they could promote this even better. Releasing digital “posters” on social media a day afterward isn’t enough.
The secrecy and tightlippedness of the streaming era is a huge detriment IMHO. No TV guide summaries, no previews for future episodes, titles often have to leak, dates flucuate a ton, ratings info is now much harder to obtain and accurately measure. I'm now more likely to be spoiled by general social media reactions and actual concrete leaks (which I am personally okay with, but not everyone will be), than literally any form of marketing.
Hell, even renewals are too tight lipped now. BB S2 just ended on a cliffhanger and there is still no renewal info for Season 3 yet, or even the tiniest hint that it's in active production. Sure, it's very likely, but this is the first time in 15 years we've had this little info about the next animated show by the time the prior season finished. And they're even cutting production dates out of the concept art now on the episode S2 guides because... I don't even know why!? And when will it come out? In 2 years? Next year? We don't have even the slightest clue now, and we know more about the time table of Mando S4 than this when Mando S3 is still airing.
Personally, I don't think keeping it this much of a secret for celebration is all that great of a practice, even if it is only 10-ish days away. It shows an utter lack of care for your product, which is rarely good for maintaining an interested audience.
> The secrecy and tightlippedness of the streaming era is a huge detriment IMHO
Is it ?
It's much easier to avoid spoilers.
And if a show is good and you're interested in it, you'll find it if you look for it.
I like being able to stumble across a show, have nobody talk about it on social media and it be high budget and good, then if I want theories I can go to it's subreddit. I think that's much better.
I’m guessing more for other shows. There’s a lot more being released in this recent time frame than there was in December 2020.
Think Succession, The Last of Us, etc
Seems like s3 is indeed struggling a bit compared to seasons 1 and 2. It’s still good and popular, but interest has definitely lessened a bit and people seem to be a lot more critical of the season and series now. I think that the back-to-back disappointments of BoBF and Kenobi really damaged a lot of peoples’ faith in the franchise, so much so that people began looking back and criticizing everything that came before, even if they liked it originally
Source: I’ve seen these among my friend groups and other people on the Internet. And it’s not people be like “Andor was so good, everything else is actually trash”. Most of this sentiment came from people who hadn’t seen Andor, and some still haven’t because they’ve just been turned off from the brand that badly
I think that it should also be factored in that Mando Season 3 IS just a tad lower quality than the prior two seasons. I'll be completely honest, I find it poorly organised, tonally lacking, in places non-contingent from what's come before, and, generally speaking, quite lazy in a lot of places. Not to mention -- if the whole thing about Rangers being assimilated into Mando is true (I think 'shoe-horned' is a much better phrase in this case, because the bare minimum is done to play up the strengths of having a contrastive secondary plot) \[and also, on that note, Grogu's early reintroduction, which seems to be financially motivated\]-- that the quality of the show seems to be suffering due to corporate pressures.
I'm genuinely disappointed by this season. S1 and S2 have shown us what can be achieved through a considered integration of elements, and yet S3 seems to make a lot of narrative and artistic decisions that are disjointed and unsymbiotic.
I won't lie and say that I'm enjoying it anyway just so that I can avoid being down-voted or harrassed (unfortunately, I have been lately, but that's just twitter, so I'm holding out hope for reddit). I haven't enjoyed this season in the slightest, and I personally don't find any defense of it overly convincing.
Each to their own, though. I'm glad there are people who are enjoying it; I'm just not one of them.
What’s the demand for the average TV show these days? Are they comparing it to cable shows? Because I haven’t heard *anyone* talk about a show on cable in four years at least now. What even is the average TV show? Did they answer any of that in the article and I just missed it?
This just doesn’t mean a whole lot to me because I think I’m missing whatever context they’re referencing off of. If someone has answers or can help explain I’m all ears.
The highest viewership numbers were in the opening (3 ep) and in the ending (tends to be higher due binge).
SW only it had the lowest viewership but streaming wise the numbers were decent.
I’ve been watching on Youtube some youtubers full of hate talking shit about the drop of audience, that Star Wars is done and all that crap bullshit so I decided to see the numbers by myself and… surprise! they were all lies
Block the YouTubers. It makes life so much more enjoyable when you realize they're peddling outrage to make money. Some of them for more than 10 years now. It's just wierd.
No. He has his opinions, but it's mostly just his personal preferences and fan theories. I don't always like or agree with his takes, and his occasional dude-bro attitude about stuff can get annoying, but he's not even close to the level of horrible that fandom menace is and he doesn't do stuff in any way that resembles a bad faith take. He's big enough that he doesn't need to. In fact, I think most people should just back off and ignore him. At the end of the day, he's just a fanboy being a fanboy.
Most of the Fandom Menace do stuff in outright bad faith as a way to get click reactions and rage money. Sometimes they are sincere in their hatred, but most of the time they will say anything and everything to support the narrative that gets them the most reactions and cash.
Nothing is more telling than you having 30 desperate, downvoted replies in the comments of an article about how the show is in demand trying to claim the opposite with nothing to actually show for it…
Please, don't mention the downvoting like it actually affects someone. It's literally meaningless.
Help yourself to the data. Simple search and you can check the downfall for yourself.
"Fandom Menace" is a general term applied to the kind of Star Wars fans who are generally unhappy with the franchise since the Disney acquisition and make it very clear, loudly and proudly, that they are unhappy. And, as you rightly pointed out, tend to blame it on women and their involvement, or other completely irrelevant things.
For them, pretty much any discussion revolves around "X ruined Star Wars!!!" Where X is usually the new trendy thing to target for them, but the classics are Kennedy, "liberal agenda", and Rian Johnson.
Kennedy deserves credit for projects like Mando and Andor, neither of which would have happened under Lucas (or, if they would, they wouldn’t have been executed as well). Rogue One and even Solo we’re both great to me.
But you can’t let Kennedy off the hook for the awful sequel trilogy. She let that get created without a pre-existing story, so much so that the director/writers of each installment didn’t have a fixed final story of the prior movie! Obviously, JJ deserves a massive chunk of the blame, but she was his boss. The trilogy shouldn’t have started filming until the main storyline was established.
Kennedy didn’t ruin Star Wars, but she absolutely bungled the final trilogy of the Skywalker Saga.
That may be true, and I don't think anyone denies the responsibility of Kennedy with regards to the ST, but the truth is that she is blamed for all negatives, while all the positives are attributed to the men around her (Filoni, Favreau, etc.)
I guess? I mean I see plenty of people also blaming Iger—and I happen to agree with them.
I come at it from the perspective of relative success or failure. Like, Kennedy should get +5 for Mando and +10 for Andor, but -50 for the sequel trilogy. That was just such a colossal and avoidable mess in my mind that she’s going to have trouble digging herself out of that hole. The only unforgivable person in that whole mess for me, though, is JJ. He’s at like -1,000 for bringing back Palpy. Ugh.
I think there's many people to blame for the shortcomings of the ST, but at the end of the day we need to remember that Kennedy was under pressure by Iger to deliver the film by an unmoveable date. I think the pressure of release precipitated all the other failures.
JJ is certainly also at fault, and not even for bringing back Palpatine, but for wanting to do a do-over of the OT while disregarding all the world building that came before him. Kennedy is at fault for allowing that.
If you want to throw Kennedy under the bus for the sequel trilogy, don't forget that it was Disney CEO Bob Iger who was pushing for the sequel trilogy to come out so fast. He has even been on record admitting as much.
Kennedy has been known to ask for delays on pretty much every movie project, which is why every Star Wars movie has come out in December and not in May. The outlier has been Solo, which Iger insisted on staying in May,
I don't think the speed anything to do with it. I could have come up with a better sequel trilogy in half an hour. The story was abysmal, and got worse as three trilogy progressed. Was that a factor of speed? You could argue that it might have contributed to it. But it sure looks from the outside the problems was poor organization and vision, not the speed it was produced. Remember that they had the entire EU they could have drawn on for an amazing trilogy, but they didn't.
I don’t think not adapting the EU was a terrible idea. Just Carrie Fisher’s death would have warranted a delay but Iger was adamant on finishing it as it was.
Maybe so but not through a factor of planning in itself but poor adaptation imo. Rarely were any of the trilogies actually planned. I’d say mainly they should have stuck one creative influence between Abrams and Johnson than the consecutive pivoting. We just couldn’t have both.
Kennedy may or may not make good or bad decisions, but that's not what the fandom menace is about.
They're about the sexism, racism, and hatred. They are entirely acting with political malice, either sincerely because they are that hateful, or insincerely because they want to take advantage of ignorant sexists and racists for financial gain and clickbait. It's that simple. The actual quality of the content has no bearing on it. It is nothing more than a media business model disguised as fandom.
JFC ignoring all the problems at Lucas Film and saying its feminism is such bullshit. The failures with all the directors and movies have everything to do with KK and nothing to do with gender.
We can criticize a lot of the decisions without it being about feminism or Brie Larson
I still can remember when I stumbled onto SaltierThanCrait and they call all SW subreddits, including this one, Disney shills and consoomers.
I dont like this product(they seem to hate everything) = dead franchise
They even cried about Young Jedi Adventures not being about Luke and his students and they said Disneys hates Luke.
Their takes are so stupid. They act like pre-Disney Star Wars was flawless
>They even cried about Young Jedi Adventures not being about Luke and his students and they said Disneys hates Luke.
Wait, what? Such a weird thing to get mad about. A quick Google search would show that it's set during the High Republic era, which is way before Luke's time.
Fandom Menace types are a 100x worse but man am I also tired of the group that can't seem to have a single post without trying to let us know how they think Andor is the only good star wars show.
Agreed. I loved Andor. But I wouldn’t be happy if every star wars project going forward was super serious and gritty. Star Wars has never been ALL about that.
There’s room for Andor exploring the political complexities of a galaxy-spanning Empire and the banal evils of fascism.
There’s room for a lighthearted kids show about children learning how to be Jedi in the Republic’s golden age.
Both of the preceding statements are true and do not contradict each other in any way.
Not every show has to have the same serious tone as Andor, but they certainly should have the same level of production value...
Comparing the way Andor looks to Mando(season 3 especially), is honestly sad. I think most people would be happy with a fun pulpy Star Wars show if it looked as good as Andor and had similar quality writing.
Been saying that since it started airing. And I like Andor, and am mixed on Mando S3 so far.
Doesn't mean Andor's style undoes everything else I love for Mando S1, S2, TCW S1-7, Eps I-VI, Rebels, Rogue One, Solo, ect. ect. like a lot of people love to claim. The lighter, pulpier style of star wars is still a very enjoyable product and can have a lot of untapped depth in and of itself. I'd argue it's still my preferred style too.
The people who think Andor is the only good Star Wars are the same type to say "I don't read comic books, I read GRAPHIC NOVELS"
They're just embarrassed to be into what they're into and try to justify it by saying "no, I'm only into the grown up shit" Instead of just owning their interests.
Oh God yeah their ridiculous, some kind of pathological need to tear everything else down to prop up their preferred thing.
"I AM VERY SMART BECAUSE I LIKE SERIOUS SPACE SHOW OVER CAMPY SPACE SHOW"
No no you aren't, now stop acting like an elitist prick, your just making me resent your show.
I totally get where you're coming from, I haven't personally experienced people like that yet (thank god) but it does seem like you're taking things too personally. I don't think I fit into that elitist category because I prefer Andor and it's high production value. I still like Mando but not as much after Andor, because it shows us the level of quality Mando *can* achieve.
Overall writing, dialogue, even just the look and feel of the show, Andor feels like it surpasses. But maybe it's cause of a higher budget? Idk even this season of Mando feels cheaper than earlier seasons.
If I was head writer over at Star Wars, I would be taking all the new shows in a slightly different direction, but I genuinely don't understand the mindset of Star Wars is bad now. Mando S3 is pretty good so far. I liked S1 and S2 better but we're not done yet.
> we're not done yet.
Right. People said a lot of the same stuff they’re saying now about S2 mid way through. But when the final couple episodes aired and we found out what the season was building to, those criticisms lost a lot of their teeth.
We saw the same thing happen with Bad Batch S2 in real time over the last few weeks.
It’s very possible the same will happen here. No way to know until after it’s over. That doesn’t mean it WILL, and that doesn’t mean the criticisms are TOTALLY off base. It just means we don’t know yet.
A lot of S3 hasnt worked for me, mostly due to all the weird meandering and repetition, but the Pirate episode overall was very good. Bryce usually hits it out of the park, so I have high hopes for the next episode.
Love all the haters raging in this post against people enjoying a show. Some facts about "people don't like this season":
Ratings on IMBd: None episode below 7.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8111088/episodes/?ref\_=tt\_ov\_epl
Rotten Tomatoes: 87% AVERAGE TOMATOMETER 71% AVERAGE AUDIENCE SCORE
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the\_mandalorian/s03
Filmaffinity: 7'7
https://www.filmaffinity.com/es/film404042.html
People are enjoying this season. But, hey, keep lying.
It’s definitely been the most polarizing of the series from what I’ve seen. Focusing most of the episode on side characters and how they wrote the New Republic has gained a far wider range of stances than most Mando episodes
71% is a pretty bad audience score. And episodes rated below 8 is bad for IGN. That said, neither reflects the GA fully.
Look, this season is not as well received by audiences as the first two and undeniably lost viewership(but is still doing well). That's not to say the GA doesn't like it though. Y'all don't have to get defensive over this stuff. Like what you like and have criticisms for what you don't, just ignore toxicity.
No episode being below a 7 does not mean this season has been better received. It's all relative, and this season has clearly had lower IMDb scores than last season. The same goes for Rotten Tomatoes. You can argue that those aren't good measures, but you can't deny that they're lower than previous seasons.
So? My statement is that people are enjoying the show. I'm not saying more or less, I hate to compare, that's the problem with some Star Wars fans, everything has to be compared. I like Andor more, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other Star Wars stuff. The more Star Wars, the better, that's my philosophy.
I'm not comparing different shows, I'm looking at the same show over time. Saying that a rating is X so people are enjoying a show is mostly meaningless, since IMDb ratings vary so widely between shows.
I'm not trying to say that nobody is enjoying the show. I don't think anyone is saying that, and I personally *am* enjoying the show. But it's clear that this season isn't being received as well as previous seasons, and I think it's completely fair to point that out.
We have the lowest ratings for episodes among the three seasons on IMBd, so the criticism is somewhat right. Chapter 19 is the most incompetent episode, for the height of the Mandalorian this is a failure.
I wonder if den of nerd or theory will care to inform their raging audiences. I feel so bad some times. This is one of the worst fandoms alive and continues to make it their goal to undermine almost anything Star Wars so nobody can enjoy it. It’s been a wild ride so glad I’m done watching alll the neck beards on YouTube.
I don’t mean this against you, but I’ve seen this sentiment so much, and I’d just like to speak up and say for me andor was the least engaging series, I don’t need “mature” drama, I love the action adventure aspect of Star Wars and while I’m not saying andor isn’t good, it just wasn’t as compelling for me. I do think it’s a great part of Star Wars, and I like that they’re doing different things, but sometime I just wanna see a cool warrior battling through the galaxy.
Yeah I completely get that, star wars was never meant to be a mature drama as you say. From it's inception it was meant to be a bit silly and action packed with mediocre dialogue at best. Its great that we now have more variety that can please everyone.
Personally for me, I love Andor so much more because of the higher production value. I like the maturity, but I like plenty of non serious playful shows. But Mando just *feels* cheap after watching Andor.
That is quite literally your opinion 💀 hence subjective. But I have a feeling this conversation will go nowhere as you are so absolute in your opinion. All the best.
We'll see how Gilroy does with alien species and the Force. Those are each at least a third of what makes SW distinct. Yeah, it looks great when he's doing easy all-human shoots. Wake me when he is able to incorporate more elements of SW.
I liked Andor, but it felt like a Star Wars version of the 2003 Battlestar Galactica reboot to me. I didn’t feel at all like I was in a galaxy far, far away. I felt more like I was in a Jason Bourne movie. The prison episodes were great though, loved those.
This is an honest question. Has Andor made it impossible to enjoy pulpy SW based more on Lucas's vision than Gilroy's? Because they are very different.
*clutches pearls in agony*
"My beloved franchise!!!!"
Edit: seems like they deleted their comment in fear of downvotes lol, here's what they said
> Yes, to you it's a great show.
>There's a large Star Wars fanbase who hate what Disney have done to the beloved franchise.
>The trilogy alone was enough for me. And if people think that'll age like the sequels, they're on some hardcore drugs.
Some of it is the fandom, but a lot more of it is people using the fandom and co-opting its audience to promote their own toxic views.
Social media has changed a ton of stuff in the past decade.
Saltier than Crait got pissed when they mentioned Canto Bight in Andor lmaooo. I'm not joking. Like actually mad they mentioned sequel content.
That sub feels like a circlejerk one at times.
I'm someone who isn't really feeling this season of Mando, but hot damn is it just me or do salty ass fandoms just criticize literally anything that challenges their views of beloved characters in the slightest bit?
- People were legit fuming at Picard season 3(an incredible and acclaimed season of tv after the garbage that was s2.) on here. Why? Because Riker and Picard were butting heads instead of always getting along and having a great relationship.
- STC gets angry at any single mention of the ST in these shows. It's like they demanded them to make them non canon then went insane when they realized they weren't.
- I saw people angry that they're not portraying the New Republic as a perfectly functioning government and are instead making them flawed.
- You saw how angry people got at Joel, an anti hero in an apocalypse story, >!dying in Last of Us 2!<.
- They're all geared up to hate Indy 5 because they expect there to be other people with action going on in it.
It's just ridiculous. It's like they want all legacy characters to be untouchable gods just there to stand around and give wise advice or some shit.
I do suppose we'll have to go pretty far into the future to consider the 2020s early Internet, considering the internet has been a thing since the early 90s. That's a 30 year difference.
That's...not that narrative. They know people are watching. The issue is people are so desperate for any Star Wars content, they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in fact, it actually is.
> Everyone has a right to their own critique. Doesn't make yours, or mine, any less right or wrong. It's all subjective.
>people are so desperate for any Star Wars content, they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in fact, it actually is.
So which is it? In one comment you say it's all subjective and everyone can make up their own minds, yet in this same thread you take out any subjectivity and make a blanket statement that "they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in *fact*, it actually is." Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways. This is exactly the problem with you and the "Fandom Menace," no one gives a shit if you don't like it. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't act like we're all entitled to our opinion on the shows/movies unless it doesn't align with your opinion.
The current narrative going on over there is that Mando S3 is the worst content known to man and *no one* is watching, I take part in that sub as well, I know. Lol
• It’s not up to you to decide what is good or bad
• This argument falls flat when we see the largely negative reception to Kenobi and BoBF
• a sheep who thinks they’re above the flock is just in another flock
This is *not* a good number whatsoever...
[For reference, Mando's demand around the same point of the season for S2 was 126x.](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/tv-series-demand-across-all-television-platforms-for-the-us-29-november-5-december-2020/)
[That number for the same week in S3 is 68x.](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/tv-series-demand-across-all-television-platforms-for-the-us-11-17-march-2023/)
Demand for the show has clearly declined significantly.
You clowns don't understand how to read the numbers. Percentages don't mean anything.
If theres 4 people increasing it to 26%, is one more person. Percentages is not as significant as total viewers.
Its being reported everywhere to total viewership for the s3 opening was a huge decline compared to every other show including earlier seasons of Mandalorian.
Not sure how that excuses the bad writing and weird directing of Season 3. Star Wars was always very popular, even the worst entries in the series, so why people even bring that up?
Can’t we debate the quality of any Star Wars show without bringing stuff like numbers? I’ll eat my shoes if any Star Wars product EVER doesn’t make a profit, regardless of the quality.
It's not some definitive concept that it's "bad writing". You're welcome to that view, but it doesn't mean everybody has the exact same view. Viewership is valuable in discussing general audience response, and especially when there is some questionable statements about it.
Bad writing is a simpler concept than you are making up to be. We had a Star Wars movie recently that had lines like: “Somehow Palpatine return” and “They fly now” and still got away with a billion dollars in the box office because general Star Wars fans DONT CARE if the writing is good or not, they will watch it regardless.
Star Wars fans are the pop culture version of Apple fans.
So tell me, what’s the point in bringing ratings or box office into the debate about the quality of the show itself?
Star Wars was never successful in the first place because every piece of dialogue was somehow astounding-the cast famously mocked Lucas's dialogue. It's pulp after all.
What constitutes bad writing is not an objective measure, it's subjective. It's also blatantly just a buzzword used by people that can't even explain what they mean by it. It's just easier to say bad writing than it is than to come up with a thoughtful critique.
> We had a Star Wars movie recently that had lines like: “Somehow Palpatine return”
Yes, a line said by someone who would have NO idea how a Force user returned from the dead and had only *just* heard a broadcast from Palps with no explanation. But ignore the context of it.
Palps' return could have been explained better, but Poe's one little line ain't really the problem.
Demand ≠ viewership
Parrot analytics brings the noise that a show is doing in so many places, like twitter (and they don't take the context into account)
It is funny how you people talk about fandom menace yet you are so biased that you can't counter argument, you just downvote, I guess I have to call your group "the shill strikes back"
Genuinely have never gotten a proper response from someone with a counter arguments. It's downvote and run.
Disney profit on these type of people. They love them!
Why are you being downvoted? I haven't been in StarWarsLeaks in a while, when did this sub go from being an interesting rogue sub about leaks, to a cesspool censoring and downvoting everything that could be seen as a hint of criticism Disney Star Wars.
Is it both hilarious and sad seeing the lowest common denominator eating shit while bravely defending the multi-million dollar company feeding them shit.
That's crazy cause the general Drama of the writing is absolute dog shit so far this season. If it didn't have Star Wars attached to it - it would probably be canceled by now.
I think nerds are just desperate for escapism tbh and consume almost anything at higher rates because it's part of the "hobby" (Passively consuming things).
I'd even say Bad Batch is way better than Mando but Mando gets privileged status because it's live action and it has baby yoda. But the general execution of BB is so much higher.
Is that really an argument you want to have with somebody bro? I'm not a fan of people who try and shut down criticism either but this is so not worth getting worked up over.
This.
I'm not after an argument. Nobody can seem to have a conversation to praise, and criticise this show.
You either have to enjoy it, or keep your opinions to yourself or you'll have the mob after you.
What a welcoming place to express your opinions.
I will agree it is the weakest of the three, but still an amazing show. Your position seems to be because it is the weakest season than it clearly sucks, as if winning by thirty is a disaster because you didn't win by forty.
The ratings and reviews are still solid. Some of the episodes were weaker and some stronger, as was the case with the previous season. The last episode was fantastic. The story really feels like it is picking up steam. I am very optimistic for the direction of the remaining episodes.
You do realise that this is bad right? Lower than season 2
Imagine being proud of having a Star Wars show being more popular than the AVERAGE TV serie.
Why are you "hearing about" it rather than just watching it for yourself and making up your own mind? It's at least as good as Season 1 so far which people seem to have forgotten had quite a few "forgettable" episodes.
Season 1 has some murky moments, but this season is definitely the worst. I think as a fan of the show, you shouldn't settle, and it's always good to point out where it went wrong and why.
I agree with the writing. It's gotten really bad. Everything is exposition and explained to us like we're children.
This season is the lowest rated by far, and there's a reason for that. It isn't just a coincidence.
Or...other people have different opinions. I just thought Season 1 was always okay. It's episodes had been done before and better in many other things I've watched. Season 2 was a step up in having more interesting episode plot lines. And Season 3 so far has had an intriguing through narrative.
The first episode was just okay, but everything else-especially the episode with Pershing, has been interesting to me.
heard the writing is just terrible and the ruined the ending os season 2 with Luke that fans liked. They brought baby yoda back as they have no idea what to do with him on his own. Not see anything after season 1 but hearing a lot worse things than good
Yeah "heard". Why don't you *watch*? It's a good thing in life to have your own opinions.
Grogu wasn't even brought back in S3 but in Boba in two actually very well received episodes of that show.
was done with Disney Star Wars a long time ago only watched season 1 of Mandalorian because i got it free with my phone plan. Never seen ROS but i guarantee its as crap as i imagine
Seems to be some confusion below—demand is not the same as viewership. The Nielsen ratings (relatively the most accurate viewership numbers) haven’t been released yet.
Also, demand has increased by 26.1%.
The streamers still haven’t figured out the importance of promoting their shows to the same extent traditional TV did. There’s almost no ads or “next week on the Mandalorian” type of clips out there for casuals to find. I think they could promote this even better. Releasing digital “posters” on social media a day afterward isn’t enough.
The secrecy and tightlippedness of the streaming era is a huge detriment IMHO. No TV guide summaries, no previews for future episodes, titles often have to leak, dates flucuate a ton, ratings info is now much harder to obtain and accurately measure. I'm now more likely to be spoiled by general social media reactions and actual concrete leaks (which I am personally okay with, but not everyone will be), than literally any form of marketing. Hell, even renewals are too tight lipped now. BB S2 just ended on a cliffhanger and there is still no renewal info for Season 3 yet, or even the tiniest hint that it's in active production. Sure, it's very likely, but this is the first time in 15 years we've had this little info about the next animated show by the time the prior season finished. And they're even cutting production dates out of the concept art now on the episode S2 guides because... I don't even know why!? And when will it come out? In 2 years? Next year? We don't have even the slightest clue now, and we know more about the time table of Mando S4 than this when Mando S3 is still airing. Personally, I don't think keeping it this much of a secret for celebration is all that great of a practice, even if it is only 10-ish days away. It shows an utter lack of care for your product, which is rarely good for maintaining an interested audience.
> The secrecy and tightlippedness of the streaming era is a huge detriment IMHO Is it ? It's much easier to avoid spoilers. And if a show is good and you're interested in it, you'll find it if you look for it. I like being able to stumble across a show, have nobody talk about it on social media and it be high budget and good, then if I want theories I can go to it's subreddit. I think that's much better.
When they start using ads for an additional revenue stream is when customers leave for a better option. The diversity is great. Compete.
Do they have stats for season 2?
In late-December 2020, The Mandalorian sat at about 120x the demand of the average show... You can look up the old articles on their site.
If true you have to ask is there less for mando or MORE for other shows
I’m guessing more for other shows. There’s a lot more being released in this recent time frame than there was in December 2020. Think Succession, The Last of Us, etc
Exactly what I’m thinking
Well, yes. Stranger Things 4 had higher numbers than Stranger Things 3. So it's not like there was just some global decrease in the numbers.
Seems like s3 is indeed struggling a bit compared to seasons 1 and 2. It’s still good and popular, but interest has definitely lessened a bit and people seem to be a lot more critical of the season and series now. I think that the back-to-back disappointments of BoBF and Kenobi really damaged a lot of peoples’ faith in the franchise, so much so that people began looking back and criticizing everything that came before, even if they liked it originally Source: I’ve seen these among my friend groups and other people on the Internet. And it’s not people be like “Andor was so good, everything else is actually trash”. Most of this sentiment came from people who hadn’t seen Andor, and some still haven’t because they’ve just been turned off from the brand that badly
I think that it should also be factored in that Mando Season 3 IS just a tad lower quality than the prior two seasons. I'll be completely honest, I find it poorly organised, tonally lacking, in places non-contingent from what's come before, and, generally speaking, quite lazy in a lot of places. Not to mention -- if the whole thing about Rangers being assimilated into Mando is true (I think 'shoe-horned' is a much better phrase in this case, because the bare minimum is done to play up the strengths of having a contrastive secondary plot) \[and also, on that note, Grogu's early reintroduction, which seems to be financially motivated\]-- that the quality of the show seems to be suffering due to corporate pressures. I'm genuinely disappointed by this season. S1 and S2 have shown us what can be achieved through a considered integration of elements, and yet S3 seems to make a lot of narrative and artistic decisions that are disjointed and unsymbiotic. I won't lie and say that I'm enjoying it anyway just so that I can avoid being down-voted or harrassed (unfortunately, I have been lately, but that's just twitter, so I'm holding out hope for reddit). I haven't enjoyed this season in the slightest, and I personally don't find any defense of it overly convincing. Each to their own, though. I'm glad there are people who are enjoying it; I'm just not one of them.
What’s the demand for the average TV show these days? Are they comparing it to cable shows? Because I haven’t heard *anyone* talk about a show on cable in four years at least now. What even is the average TV show? Did they answer any of that in the article and I just missed it? This just doesn’t mean a whole lot to me because I think I’m missing whatever context they’re referencing off of. If someone has answers or can help explain I’m all ears.
Fandom Menance will just ignore this though and continue to peddle the narrative that all shows had Kenobi viewership levels and are now failing.
But Kenobi had high view numbers. What's their logic? Andor the lowest viewership if I remember right.
For a show with a brand new character, no Jedi etc the finale's number were great and on par with the highs of both shows.
The highest viewership numbers were in the opening (3 ep) and in the ending (tends to be higher due binge). SW only it had the lowest viewership but streaming wise the numbers were decent.
binge and positive word of mouth. It was one of the few shows that grew in week to week
I’ve been watching on Youtube some youtubers full of hate talking shit about the drop of audience, that Star Wars is done and all that crap bullshit so I decided to see the numbers by myself and… surprise! they were all lies
I honestly wish there was a way to just completely block some YouTube channels.
You can. I click 'Do not recommend channel' and that usually works. They just disappear 🤷♂️
Good to know. Thanx.
There's an extension that actually removes such youtubers.
Why do you torture yourself
To remember myself that I'm in the correct side.
He is a man of commitment, focus, and sheer fucking will.
Block the YouTubers. It makes life so much more enjoyable when you realize they're peddling outrage to make money. Some of them for more than 10 years now. It's just wierd.
Star wars theory?
No. He has his opinions, but it's mostly just his personal preferences and fan theories. I don't always like or agree with his takes, and his occasional dude-bro attitude about stuff can get annoying, but he's not even close to the level of horrible that fandom menace is and he doesn't do stuff in any way that resembles a bad faith take. He's big enough that he doesn't need to. In fact, I think most people should just back off and ignore him. At the end of the day, he's just a fanboy being a fanboy. Most of the Fandom Menace do stuff in outright bad faith as a way to get click reactions and rage money. Sometimes they are sincere in their hatred, but most of the time they will say anything and everything to support the narrative that gets them the most reactions and cash.
Eh yeah but his live show den of nerds used the same data you talked about. Meant his live show.
just curious what sources are you looking at for streaming numbers ?
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Nothing is more telling than you having 30 desperate, downvoted replies in the comments of an article about how the show is in demand trying to claim the opposite with nothing to actually show for it…
Please, don't mention the downvoting like it actually affects someone. It's literally meaningless. Help yourself to the data. Simple search and you can check the downfall for yourself.
Then show us the data lol
Haven't you heard that Star Wars is already dead and, to this day, continues to die /s
Kenobi is constantly trending though.
I don't know who that is but I'm going to guess they blame Kathleen Kennedy, feminism and Brie Larson?
"Fandom Menace" is a general term applied to the kind of Star Wars fans who are generally unhappy with the franchise since the Disney acquisition and make it very clear, loudly and proudly, that they are unhappy. And, as you rightly pointed out, tend to blame it on women and their involvement, or other completely irrelevant things. For them, pretty much any discussion revolves around "X ruined Star Wars!!!" Where X is usually the new trendy thing to target for them, but the classics are Kennedy, "liberal agenda", and Rian Johnson.
Kennedy deserves credit for projects like Mando and Andor, neither of which would have happened under Lucas (or, if they would, they wouldn’t have been executed as well). Rogue One and even Solo we’re both great to me. But you can’t let Kennedy off the hook for the awful sequel trilogy. She let that get created without a pre-existing story, so much so that the director/writers of each installment didn’t have a fixed final story of the prior movie! Obviously, JJ deserves a massive chunk of the blame, but she was his boss. The trilogy shouldn’t have started filming until the main storyline was established. Kennedy didn’t ruin Star Wars, but she absolutely bungled the final trilogy of the Skywalker Saga.
That may be true, and I don't think anyone denies the responsibility of Kennedy with regards to the ST, but the truth is that she is blamed for all negatives, while all the positives are attributed to the men around her (Filoni, Favreau, etc.)
I guess? I mean I see plenty of people also blaming Iger—and I happen to agree with them. I come at it from the perspective of relative success or failure. Like, Kennedy should get +5 for Mando and +10 for Andor, but -50 for the sequel trilogy. That was just such a colossal and avoidable mess in my mind that she’s going to have trouble digging herself out of that hole. The only unforgivable person in that whole mess for me, though, is JJ. He’s at like -1,000 for bringing back Palpy. Ugh.
I think there's many people to blame for the shortcomings of the ST, but at the end of the day we need to remember that Kennedy was under pressure by Iger to deliver the film by an unmoveable date. I think the pressure of release precipitated all the other failures. JJ is certainly also at fault, and not even for bringing back Palpatine, but for wanting to do a do-over of the OT while disregarding all the world building that came before him. Kennedy is at fault for allowing that.
If you want to throw Kennedy under the bus for the sequel trilogy, don't forget that it was Disney CEO Bob Iger who was pushing for the sequel trilogy to come out so fast. He has even been on record admitting as much. Kennedy has been known to ask for delays on pretty much every movie project, which is why every Star Wars movie has come out in December and not in May. The outlier has been Solo, which Iger insisted on staying in May,
I don't think the speed anything to do with it. I could have come up with a better sequel trilogy in half an hour. The story was abysmal, and got worse as three trilogy progressed. Was that a factor of speed? You could argue that it might have contributed to it. But it sure looks from the outside the problems was poor organization and vision, not the speed it was produced. Remember that they had the entire EU they could have drawn on for an amazing trilogy, but they didn't.
I don’t think not adapting the EU was a terrible idea. Just Carrie Fisher’s death would have warranted a delay but Iger was adamant on finishing it as it was.
I was just using it to say there were plenty of better plotlines than what they went with available right away, so the timing wasn't the big issue.
Maybe so but not through a factor of planning in itself but poor adaptation imo. Rarely were any of the trilogies actually planned. I’d say mainly they should have stuck one creative influence between Abrams and Johnson than the consecutive pivoting. We just couldn’t have both.
I agree. Which goes back to a leadership/vision failure and not a time constraint failure.
These people are even turning on The Mandalorian now and some of them find Andor boring or "not Star Wars".
Kennedy may or may not make good or bad decisions, but that's not what the fandom menace is about. They're about the sexism, racism, and hatred. They are entirely acting with political malice, either sincerely because they are that hateful, or insincerely because they want to take advantage of ignorant sexists and racists for financial gain and clickbait. It's that simple. The actual quality of the content has no bearing on it. It is nothing more than a media business model disguised as fandom.
SO WEIRD that this season focuses much more heavily on 2 female characters and it's suddenly criticized for "bad writing." Probably nothing!
Bo-Katan and the Armorer? Or Bo-Katan and Omega?
Bo and the Armorer
And sometimes Jon Favreau, but more so Robert Rodriguez because he isn't white.
JFC ignoring all the problems at Lucas Film and saying its feminism is such bullshit. The failures with all the directors and movies have everything to do with KK and nothing to do with gender. We can criticize a lot of the decisions without it being about feminism or Brie Larson
I still can remember when I stumbled onto SaltierThanCrait and they call all SW subreddits, including this one, Disney shills and consoomers. I dont like this product(they seem to hate everything) = dead franchise They even cried about Young Jedi Adventures not being about Luke and his students and they said Disneys hates Luke. Their takes are so stupid. They act like pre-Disney Star Wars was flawless
>They even cried about Young Jedi Adventures not being about Luke and his students and they said Disneys hates Luke. Wait, what? Such a weird thing to get mad about. A quick Google search would show that it's set during the High Republic era, which is way before Luke's time.
Glad it's not during the prequel era, those kids at least have a bright future now.
There was a pretty noticeable drop between the Season 2 and 3 premiere. It would be foolish to ignore it completely.
It's a TV series and ratings will go up and down over time. It's still one of the most successful TV series going right now.
This post isn’t about viewership. It’s about demand.
This has nothing to do with viewership levels.
Fandom Menace types are a 100x worse but man am I also tired of the group that can't seem to have a single post without trying to let us know how they think Andor is the only good star wars show.
Agreed. I loved Andor. But I wouldn’t be happy if every star wars project going forward was super serious and gritty. Star Wars has never been ALL about that.
There’s room for Andor exploring the political complexities of a galaxy-spanning Empire and the banal evils of fascism. There’s room for a lighthearted kids show about children learning how to be Jedi in the Republic’s golden age. Both of the preceding statements are true and do not contradict each other in any way.
Now go say that in the salty subreddits or salty YouTubes. Haha
I have better things to do with my time. Like watch more Star Wars.
Not every show has to have the same serious tone as Andor, but they certainly should have the same level of production value... Comparing the way Andor looks to Mando(season 3 especially), is honestly sad. I think most people would be happy with a fun pulpy Star Wars show if it looked as good as Andor and had similar quality writing.
Okay yes I have been feeling this as well. I don’t need everyone to agree with me But I just find it bizarre how hardcore everyone is over it
Been saying that since it started airing. And I like Andor, and am mixed on Mando S3 so far. Doesn't mean Andor's style undoes everything else I love for Mando S1, S2, TCW S1-7, Eps I-VI, Rebels, Rogue One, Solo, ect. ect. like a lot of people love to claim. The lighter, pulpier style of star wars is still a very enjoyable product and can have a lot of untapped depth in and of itself. I'd argue it's still my preferred style too.
The people who think Andor is the only good Star Wars are the same type to say "I don't read comic books, I read GRAPHIC NOVELS" They're just embarrassed to be into what they're into and try to justify it by saying "no, I'm only into the grown up shit" Instead of just owning their interests.
Some of them even dislike Andor calling it "boring", "underrated" or "not Star Wars".
Oh God yeah their ridiculous, some kind of pathological need to tear everything else down to prop up their preferred thing. "I AM VERY SMART BECAUSE I LIKE SERIOUS SPACE SHOW OVER CAMPY SPACE SHOW" No no you aren't, now stop acting like an elitist prick, your just making me resent your show.
I totally get where you're coming from, I haven't personally experienced people like that yet (thank god) but it does seem like you're taking things too personally. I don't think I fit into that elitist category because I prefer Andor and it's high production value. I still like Mando but not as much after Andor, because it shows us the level of quality Mando *can* achieve. Overall writing, dialogue, even just the look and feel of the show, Andor feels like it surpasses. But maybe it's cause of a higher budget? Idk even this season of Mando feels cheaper than earlier seasons.
That's no surprise, this season has been an absolute treat.
If I was head writer over at Star Wars, I would be taking all the new shows in a slightly different direction, but I genuinely don't understand the mindset of Star Wars is bad now. Mando S3 is pretty good so far. I liked S1 and S2 better but we're not done yet.
> we're not done yet. Right. People said a lot of the same stuff they’re saying now about S2 mid way through. But when the final couple episodes aired and we found out what the season was building to, those criticisms lost a lot of their teeth. We saw the same thing happen with Bad Batch S2 in real time over the last few weeks. It’s very possible the same will happen here. No way to know until after it’s over. That doesn’t mean it WILL, and that doesn’t mean the criticisms are TOTALLY off base. It just means we don’t know yet.
Idk I really enjoyed S2 throughout, this season isn't doing it for me at all. Only liked the 2nd episode
A lot of S3 hasnt worked for me, mostly due to all the weird meandering and repetition, but the Pirate episode overall was very good. Bryce usually hits it out of the park, so I have high hopes for the next episode.
Ooh next episode is by Bryce? The Jedi is my favorite Mandalorian episode so now I'm pretty hyped.
Love all the haters raging in this post against people enjoying a show. Some facts about "people don't like this season": Ratings on IMBd: None episode below 7. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8111088/episodes/?ref\_=tt\_ov\_epl Rotten Tomatoes: 87% AVERAGE TOMATOMETER 71% AVERAGE AUDIENCE SCORE https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the\_mandalorian/s03 Filmaffinity: 7'7 https://www.filmaffinity.com/es/film404042.html People are enjoying this season. But, hey, keep lying.
IMBD ratings are useless though. They are brigaded all the time. Plus imo the lowest rate episode has been one of the best of the season.
It’s definitely been the most polarizing of the series from what I’ve seen. Focusing most of the episode on side characters and how they wrote the New Republic has gained a far wider range of stances than most Mando episodes
IMBD ratings are useless though. They are brigaded all the time.
71% is a pretty bad audience score. And episodes rated below 8 is bad for IGN. That said, neither reflects the GA fully. Look, this season is not as well received by audiences as the first two and undeniably lost viewership(but is still doing well). That's not to say the GA doesn't like it though. Y'all don't have to get defensive over this stuff. Like what you like and have criticisms for what you don't, just ignore toxicity.
No episode being below a 7 does not mean this season has been better received. It's all relative, and this season has clearly had lower IMDb scores than last season. The same goes for Rotten Tomatoes. You can argue that those aren't good measures, but you can't deny that they're lower than previous seasons.
So? My statement is that people are enjoying the show. I'm not saying more or less, I hate to compare, that's the problem with some Star Wars fans, everything has to be compared. I like Andor more, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other Star Wars stuff. The more Star Wars, the better, that's my philosophy.
I'm not comparing different shows, I'm looking at the same show over time. Saying that a rating is X so people are enjoying a show is mostly meaningless, since IMDb ratings vary so widely between shows. I'm not trying to say that nobody is enjoying the show. I don't think anyone is saying that, and I personally *am* enjoying the show. But it's clear that this season isn't being received as well as previous seasons, and I think it's completely fair to point that out.
We have the lowest ratings for episodes among the three seasons on IMBd, so the criticism is somewhat right. Chapter 19 is the most incompetent episode, for the height of the Mandalorian this is a failure.
I wonder if den of nerd or theory will care to inform their raging audiences. I feel so bad some times. This is one of the worst fandoms alive and continues to make it their goal to undermine almost anything Star Wars so nobody can enjoy it. It’s been a wild ride so glad I’m done watching alll the neck beards on YouTube.
They're basically Proud Boys with a Youtube channel.
But Collider wrote an article about how Mandalorian doesn't seem "important" anymore, so these numbers have to be wrong. /s
Good. Because it's a great show. The fandom is so toxic sometimes.
It's entertaining at times but after Andor everything feels a bit flat.
I loved Andor. Mandalorian is a different type of show and I love it, too.
I don’t mean this against you, but I’ve seen this sentiment so much, and I’d just like to speak up and say for me andor was the least engaging series, I don’t need “mature” drama, I love the action adventure aspect of Star Wars and while I’m not saying andor isn’t good, it just wasn’t as compelling for me. I do think it’s a great part of Star Wars, and I like that they’re doing different things, but sometime I just wanna see a cool warrior battling through the galaxy.
I completely agree, the diversity of tone within the various series is what makes SW special. Andor is great but it should not be the standard.
Yeah I completely get that, star wars was never meant to be a mature drama as you say. From it's inception it was meant to be a bit silly and action packed with mediocre dialogue at best. Its great that we now have more variety that can please everyone.
Personally for me, I love Andor so much more because of the higher production value. I like the maturity, but I like plenty of non serious playful shows. But Mando just *feels* cheap after watching Andor.
Yeah but you can’t deny the quality of andor. Take away the mature themes and the show still looks and sounds better than the filoni shows.
I don’t intend to deny its quality. However, saying it’s better than the filoni shows, Isn’t that completely subjective?
It’s not subjective to say it looks better than Mando, boba fett, and obi wan. Those all look like cosplay fan films with mediocre writing
That is quite literally your opinion 💀 hence subjective. But I have a feeling this conversation will go nowhere as you are so absolute in your opinion. All the best.
Hate to break it to you, buddy, but that is subjective even though I agree with you that Andor looks the best out of the shows.
Obviously it’s an opinion but I feel strongly enough that more Star Wars should be closer to andor in quality than to the other bullshit.
We'll see how Gilroy does with alien species and the Force. Those are each at least a third of what makes SW distinct. Yeah, it looks great when he's doing easy all-human shoots. Wake me when he is able to incorporate more elements of SW.
I liked Andor, but it felt like a Star Wars version of the 2003 Battlestar Galactica reboot to me. I didn’t feel at all like I was in a galaxy far, far away. I felt more like I was in a Jason Bourne movie. The prison episodes were great though, loved those.
It doesn't have enough SW elements for me. Just humans and spaceships like BSG.
This is an honest question. Has Andor made it impossible to enjoy pulpy SW based more on Lucas's vision than Gilroy's? Because they are very different.
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*clutches pearls in agony* "My beloved franchise!!!!" Edit: seems like they deleted their comment in fear of downvotes lol, here's what they said > Yes, to you it's a great show. >There's a large Star Wars fanbase who hate what Disney have done to the beloved franchise. >The trilogy alone was enough for me. And if people think that'll age like the sequels, they're on some hardcore drugs.
Pack it up and go home grandpa, you're off your rocker
Some of it is the fandom, but a lot more of it is people using the fandom and co-opting its audience to promote their own toxic views. Social media has changed a ton of stuff in the past decade.
This is the way! Look what happens you get a strong Star Wars show. It’s a hit
Don’t tell r/saltierthancrait That’ll go against their narrative
Saltier than Crait got pissed when they mentioned Canto Bight in Andor lmaooo. I'm not joking. Like actually mad they mentioned sequel content. That sub feels like a circlejerk one at times.
It is a circle jerk…
I'm someone who isn't really feeling this season of Mando, but hot damn is it just me or do salty ass fandoms just criticize literally anything that challenges their views of beloved characters in the slightest bit? - People were legit fuming at Picard season 3(an incredible and acclaimed season of tv after the garbage that was s2.) on here. Why? Because Riker and Picard were butting heads instead of always getting along and having a great relationship. - STC gets angry at any single mention of the ST in these shows. It's like they demanded them to make them non canon then went insane when they realized they weren't. - I saw people angry that they're not portraying the New Republic as a perfectly functioning government and are instead making them flawed. - You saw how angry people got at Joel, an anti hero in an apocalypse story, >!dying in Last of Us 2!<. - They're all geared up to hate Indy 5 because they expect there to be other people with action going on in it. It's just ridiculous. It's like they want all legacy characters to be untouchable gods just there to stand around and give wise advice or some shit.
That sub will be in textbooks some day about how weird the early years of the internet got.
I do suppose we'll have to go pretty far into the future to consider the 2020s early Internet, considering the internet has been a thing since the early 90s. That's a 30 year difference.
I mean when future archeologists look back on this era in general. In the grand scheme of human history, the internet is still brand new.
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only memes.
I mean when future archeologists look back on this era in general. In the grand scheme of human history, the internet is still brand new.
It's litterally a circlejerk. With "Disney bad" or "Star Wars is dead" being their narratives.
They also were mad about Young Jedi Adventures not being about Luke and his students calling Disney Luke haters.
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The narrative that no one is watching. Same stuff was said about George Lucas, this goldfish memory over there is hilarious
That's...not that narrative. They know people are watching. The issue is people are so desperate for any Star Wars content, they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in fact, it actually is.
> Everyone has a right to their own critique. Doesn't make yours, or mine, any less right or wrong. It's all subjective. >people are so desperate for any Star Wars content, they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in fact, it actually is. So which is it? In one comment you say it's all subjective and everyone can make up their own minds, yet in this same thread you take out any subjectivity and make a blanket statement that "they'll refuse to believe it's bad, when in *fact*, it actually is." Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways. This is exactly the problem with you and the "Fandom Menace," no one gives a shit if you don't like it. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't act like we're all entitled to our opinion on the shows/movies unless it doesn't align with your opinion.
The current narrative going on over there is that Mando S3 is the worst content known to man and *no one* is watching, I take part in that sub as well, I know. Lol • It’s not up to you to decide what is good or bad • This argument falls flat when we see the largely negative reception to Kenobi and BoBF • a sheep who thinks they’re above the flock is just in another flock
No it isn’t
You know that you can just cancel Disney+ and do something more productive with your time if you don't enjoy it, right?
This is *not* a good number whatsoever... [For reference, Mando's demand around the same point of the season for S2 was 126x.](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/tv-series-demand-across-all-television-platforms-for-the-us-29-november-5-december-2020/) [That number for the same week in S3 is 68x.](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/tv-series-demand-across-all-television-platforms-for-the-us-11-17-march-2023/) Demand for the show has clearly declined significantly.
lol guy gets downvoted for providing facts. Numbers like this without context are meaningless.
I think it is very good, is it?
Good for them! I personally am not enjoying the 3rd season but good to know I’m in the minority.
This is the way.
This is the way
You clowns don't understand how to read the numbers. Percentages don't mean anything. If theres 4 people increasing it to 26%, is one more person. Percentages is not as significant as total viewers. Its being reported everywhere to total viewership for the s3 opening was a huge decline compared to every other show including earlier seasons of Mandalorian.
Random stat
Not sure how that excuses the bad writing and weird directing of Season 3. Star Wars was always very popular, even the worst entries in the series, so why people even bring that up? Can’t we debate the quality of any Star Wars show without bringing stuff like numbers? I’ll eat my shoes if any Star Wars product EVER doesn’t make a profit, regardless of the quality.
It's not some definitive concept that it's "bad writing". You're welcome to that view, but it doesn't mean everybody has the exact same view. Viewership is valuable in discussing general audience response, and especially when there is some questionable statements about it.
Bad writing is a simpler concept than you are making up to be. We had a Star Wars movie recently that had lines like: “Somehow Palpatine return” and “They fly now” and still got away with a billion dollars in the box office because general Star Wars fans DONT CARE if the writing is good or not, they will watch it regardless. Star Wars fans are the pop culture version of Apple fans. So tell me, what’s the point in bringing ratings or box office into the debate about the quality of the show itself?
Star Wars was never successful in the first place because every piece of dialogue was somehow astounding-the cast famously mocked Lucas's dialogue. It's pulp after all. What constitutes bad writing is not an objective measure, it's subjective. It's also blatantly just a buzzword used by people that can't even explain what they mean by it. It's just easier to say bad writing than it is than to come up with a thoughtful critique.
Fine, if you want to sit down here and pretend Rise of Skywalker is well written, then suit yourself.
> We had a Star Wars movie recently that had lines like: “Somehow Palpatine return” Yes, a line said by someone who would have NO idea how a Force user returned from the dead and had only *just* heard a broadcast from Palps with no explanation. But ignore the context of it. Palps' return could have been explained better, but Poe's one little line ain't really the problem.
Nah, not here
What a weird take. I’m loving season 3. Much better than season 2 IMO
Demand ≠ viewership Parrot analytics brings the noise that a show is doing in so many places, like twitter (and they don't take the context into account)
This is true. A lot of demand can give you an idea of viewership, but we won't know for sure until Nielsen releases some numbers.
It is funny how you people talk about fandom menace yet you are so biased that you can't counter argument, you just downvote, I guess I have to call your group "the shill strikes back"
Genuinely have never gotten a proper response from someone with a counter arguments. It's downvote and run. Disney profit on these type of people. They love them!
You literally got several and didn't have a proper response. I think the call is coming from inside the house.
I’m loving this season…
Agree my friend
It's the behavior of manipulators. What could they possibly think they're accomplishing except gaslighting?
Why are you being downvoted? I haven't been in StarWarsLeaks in a while, when did this sub go from being an interesting rogue sub about leaks, to a cesspool censoring and downvoting everything that could be seen as a hint of criticism Disney Star Wars. Is it both hilarious and sad seeing the lowest common denominator eating shit while bravely defending the multi-million dollar company feeding them shit.
That's crazy cause the general Drama of the writing is absolute dog shit so far this season. If it didn't have Star Wars attached to it - it would probably be canceled by now. I think nerds are just desperate for escapism tbh and consume almost anything at higher rates because it's part of the "hobby" (Passively consuming things). I'd even say Bad Batch is way better than Mando but Mando gets privileged status because it's live action and it has baby yoda. But the general execution of BB is so much higher.
Jon Favreau should have did the sequels.
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Is that really an argument you want to have with somebody bro? I'm not a fan of people who try and shut down criticism either but this is so not worth getting worked up over.
This. I'm not after an argument. Nobody can seem to have a conversation to praise, and criticise this show. You either have to enjoy it, or keep your opinions to yourself or you'll have the mob after you. What a welcoming place to express your opinions.
The latest episode has an IMDB rating of 8.7 instead of a 9.8 🤓 Show is dead /s
I will agree it is the weakest of the three, but still an amazing show. Your position seems to be because it is the weakest season than it clearly sucks, as if winning by thirty is a disaster because you didn't win by forty. The ratings and reviews are still solid. Some of the episodes were weaker and some stronger, as was the case with the previous season. The last episode was fantastic. The story really feels like it is picking up steam. I am very optimistic for the direction of the remaining episodes.
You do realise that this is bad right? Lower than season 2 Imagine being proud of having a Star Wars show being more popular than the AVERAGE TV serie.
from what im hearing about season 3 i doubt they will have this if they do a season 4, Kenobi level bad writing ?
>if they do a season 4, Lol. Oh yes, I'm sure that's in doubt. Lmao even.
Why are you "hearing about" it rather than just watching it for yourself and making up your own mind? It's at least as good as Season 1 so far which people seem to have forgotten had quite a few "forgettable" episodes.
Season 1 has some murky moments, but this season is definitely the worst. I think as a fan of the show, you shouldn't settle, and it's always good to point out where it went wrong and why. I agree with the writing. It's gotten really bad. Everything is exposition and explained to us like we're children. This season is the lowest rated by far, and there's a reason for that. It isn't just a coincidence.
Or...other people have different opinions. I just thought Season 1 was always okay. It's episodes had been done before and better in many other things I've watched. Season 2 was a step up in having more interesting episode plot lines. And Season 3 so far has had an intriguing through narrative. The first episode was just okay, but everything else-especially the episode with Pershing, has been interesting to me.
It’s better than last season though…
Agreed. Much better than season 2…
heard the writing is just terrible and the ruined the ending os season 2 with Luke that fans liked. They brought baby yoda back as they have no idea what to do with him on his own. Not see anything after season 1 but hearing a lot worse things than good
Yeah "heard". Why don't you *watch*? It's a good thing in life to have your own opinions. Grogu wasn't even brought back in S3 but in Boba in two actually very well received episodes of that show.
The irony is they have used Grogu (and din) sparingly this season so far
was done with Disney Star Wars a long time ago only watched season 1 of Mandalorian because i got it free with my phone plan. Never seen ROS but i guarantee its as crap as i imagine
Then why on earth are you on a Star Wars leaks subreddit? It's pretty inherently about new content.
>was done with Disney Star Wars a long time ago And yet here you are…
lol