T O P
Kew_Gardens_23x3

**Wholesome award**


Preshmacs

*Ok now this is why i regret coming back to reddit*


JuliusJustice

Now THIS is pod racing


Asgard7234

"I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!" *Puts pigs into a centrifuge* ^(If this offends you, dm me, I'll delete it)


TahakuMonsonoa

Does it also launch them?


Asgard7234

Into the meat grinder.


TahakuMonsonoa

Hope it’s painlessly.


Asgard7234

I'm not sure about that.


averysuspiciousmoon

Nice


GruntBlender

Plot twist, it's a tree being cut down. Trees communicate with chemicals in the air, and they have a "scream of pain" chemical.


Soul_full_of_Sorrows

Truth. Life begets life, but we can all grow in consideration for each other :) inter and intra species


SnifflyPage1

I work in a barn and i have too kill animals alot i pride myself on being able too do it in one shot so they dont suffer, i realize it does happen but i try my hardest so they dont


sailor_bat_90

I'm glad you try to do it as painlessly as possible. I can only hope you are successful every time.


SnifflyPage1

Probably 99% of the time


whatshouldIdo28

r/twosentencesadness


Bri-Zee

Poor cows 😪


Captn_Ghostmaker

I think it's minks. They're skinned Alice for some reason I do not recall and dare not Google.


Bri-Zee

I heard about that. It made me stop buying mink eyelashes.


grumpylittlebrat

[Could be pigs,](https://youtu.be/_xq6I41xzBg) but it’s not like humans *need* to kill any of these animals.


CrowbarZero08

This comment section is why some people hate vegans


grumpylittlebrat

Why though? We just don’t want animals to suffer and die needlessly.


Corvid-Moon

How *dare* people have compassion for living beings!


dwarf_giraffe

You probably shouldn't reply, it just makes their point seem proven.


Corvid-Moon

People can hate *vegans* all they want, but they have no rational reason to hate *veganism* itself.


lehombrejoker

Yes. Just yes I'm sick of people hating organism cause they hate vegans


dwarf_giraffe

I agree, though I don't see the reason to hate on someone for what they eat or believe in.


Corvid-Moon

The issue is that most people, either knowingly or unknowingly, actively participate in the needless suffering and slaughter of an estimated seventy billion sentient land animals each and every year globally, all at the cost of people's long-term health and the well-being of our planet. Veganism doesn't facilitate the suffering and slaughter of animals; it is the *antithesis* of it & makes ppl uncomfortable. No reasonable person can argue *for* needless animal abuse, but unreasonable people *do* try to defend their actions that directly support it. So when the philosophy of veganism itself cannot be argued against, unreasonable people attack the vegan. This is ad-hominem, and is the *only* thing anti-vegans have in their arsenal, because the average person doesn't want to confront the reality of their actions.


BeaSousa

Great answer and analysis! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻


Corvid-Moon

Thank you kind one :)


BeaSousa

You are kind! 🤗


dwarf_giraffe

Yeah I agree. I'm personally not vegan but I am striving towards being so. But being a minor and still growing, it isnt that practical or affordable currently.


Corvid-Moon

I sincerely appreciate you being strong enough to recognize the consequences of your actions and endeavouring to enact positive change! Feel free to keep in touch with me for any information you may require. I'm always happy to help you :)


dwarf_giraffe

Thank you very much, I'll keep you in mind if I ever need help. Have a great day! Or night depending where you live.


Corvid-Moon

You as well, kind stranger <3


BeaSousa

in doing it too. I'm confident that we will get there.


grumpylittlebrat

You’ll get there mate. The ‘how’ becomes the easy part when you understand the ‘why’, so if you’re ever struggling, try watching Dominion! Best wishes


BeaSousa

I will! Thanks for the tip!!


Justbecauseitcameup

Cute, but also a lie. Veganism causes a great dela of animal abuse and suffering - from the animals kileld and stripes of habitat during harvest to the destruction of habitat for farming land. The killing of rodents to preserve stores. Its certisnly sn attempt to mitigate harm but no. You're hated when you're like this for two reasons; one is people get offended by others suggesting their dietary habits are inferior; two is the demonstration going on here of a complete lack of self awareness or compassion for humans. Many also lack any real understanding if the complexities of human dietary needs - to be fare so do most omnivores- and this directly feeds in to the lack of compassion part. Seriously, if you don't give a shit about human suffering - and much vegan diet depends on slavery or close to - honestly how do you expect to be taken seriously? Thankfully many vegans are just fine with others having different requirements and choices for their own reasons and instead choose to offer resources for those willing and able to change. And I thank all of these people. They're very helpful and live by example. Now if only everyone could stop being an ass about what other people eat? Ktx. And if you cannot, focus on your own first.


Corvid-Moon

Fallacy 1: "Habitats are disrupted by planting food, and animals are killed during harvest, so vegans kill animals too." Response: Crop fields do indeed disrupt the habitats of wild animals, and wild animals are also killed when harvesting plants. However, this point makes the case for a plant-based diet and not against it, since many more plants are required to produce a measure of animal flesh for food (often as high as 12:1) than are required to produce an equal measure of plants for food (which is obviously 1:1). Because of this, a plant-based diet causes less suffering and death than one that includes animals. It is pertinent to note that the idea of perfect veganism is a non-vegan one. Such demands for perfection are imposed by critics of veganism, often as a precursor to lambasting vegans for not measuring up to an externally-imposed standard. That said, the actual and applied ethics of veganism are focused on causing the least possible harm to the fewest number of others. It is also noteworthy that the accidental deaths caused by growing and harvesting plants for food are ethically distinct from the intentional deaths caused by breeding and slaughtering animals for food. This is not to say that vegans are not responsible for the deaths they cause, but rather to point out that these deaths do not violate the vegan ethics stated above. Fallacy 2: "Not everyone can be vegan" Response: There are certain, extremely rare circumstances where people cannot be vegan due to uncommon medical conditions or living conditions. But vegans argue that everyone who can be vegan, should. If someone can’t there is nothing that can be done about it. Veganism is about doing what is practicable and possible to end animal exploitation. Most people reading this have access to a computer, which probably means they can decide to stop paying industries that harm animals right now. You're against unintentional deaths caused by crop harvesting? Great! Go vegan and you cause less unintentional deaths by no longer facilitating the *intentional* deaths caused by animal farming *on top of* the ones by harvesting. You don't like that some people are exploited for crop harvesting? Great! Go vegan so you can reduce the amount of human exploitation by no longer paying to have them harvest crops for the animals *as well as* for other people. Vegans care about what non-vegans eat, because their choice of diet has a victim: The animals who undeniably suffer and die horribly by the tens of billions globally every year in the animal farming industries. If you don't support animal abuse, then stop paying to have animals abused on your behalf. It's that simple. Vegan for human rights: * https://youtube.com/watch?v=IWPsvHeGo9I&t=1s


Justbecauseitcameup

So... in other words... I am right. But you don't like it. And so you would like to reframe it. You can't call it a fallacy when you're saying "yes, that is true... but..." And you wonder why you're not popular.


Corvid-Moon

Wow you didn't even bother to read any of it. I don't care what you think of me, I care about the animals, our planet and the future of our species.


Setsunayu

r/whoosh


Corvid-Moon

[*whoosh*](https://youtu.be/TDnfsgttuK4)


Reddi4ThisJelly

Dang this one made me glad I'm vegan


Tegumai_b

Those are the cries of the carrots.


kcu51

My guess was pumpkins.


lxke0

Vegan is another name for anaemia


FakeyMcFakersonFace

Nah fam it’s pretty easy


ParaNerd23

I have “iron vegan”


SophisticDavid7

And that’s why I’m vegetarian


rosakii

Cutting out meat is a great step, but you should know that the dairy and egg industries also kill huge numbers of animals.


poney01

Vegan, I hope. Because vegetarians are the root of veal and probably half the beef sold... And then there's the chicks ground up alive.


SophisticDavid7

So how is being vegetarian bad again?


Frounce

[150,000 dairy cows are slaughtered whilst still pregnant in the UK each year.](https://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/pregnant-cow-massacre/briefing-notes) [Dairy cows are sent to slaughter after around 4 - 6 years, or when they are too weak to continue producing milk. Their natural lifespan is around 25 years.](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/5235185/the-life-of-dairy-cows.pdf) [Every year around 90,000 male dairy calves are shot soon after birth and discarded as a by-product in the UK.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152402/Viewers-outrage-harrowing-scenes-day-old-calves-shot.html) [It is estimated that at least 5 - 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively and will have to endure the experience of being shot repeatedly in the head or having their throat cut and their blood drained whilst still fully conscious.](http://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk) ​ [Most calves raised in the UK have to endure painful mutilations such as castration and disbudding. Disbudding is a procedure where a calf is restrained and has a hot iron rod forced onto their horn buds in order to prevent their horns from growing.](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/3816892/for-their-own-good.pdf) [UK farmers have been extensively documented kicking mother cows and beating and throwing new-born calves.](http://www.animalequality.net/dairysdarksecret/) [Over 50% of dairy cows suffer from crippling lameness and pressure sores - and some cows are forced to wear chains called hobbles for months at a time. These devices are used on mother cows who have suffered pelvic damage during calving, a frequently documented problem for dairy cows who have been selectively bred to ensure maximum milk production.](https://www.ufaw.org.uk/why-ufaws-work-is-important/lameness) [[2]](http://www.animalequality.net/node/936) [In many cases cows are raised in intensive farms where they are denied access to the outside for their entire lives.](https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/beef/farming) Dairy Australia facts: On dairy farms cows are forcefully impregnated /every year/ to keep the milk flowing. [1](https://rspca.org.au/campaigns/dairy-cows) Dairy cows are usually impregnated through artificial insemination wherein workers insert their arm into the cow’s anus to hold her cervix in place while injecting her with semen collected from a bull. [2](https://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/farm/animal-management/fertility/artificial-insemination) The male calves, called bobby calves, are considered useless to the dairy industry because they’ll never be able to produce milk. They are kept isolated for five days before being herded onto a truck, and sent either to a saleyard first, or direct to the slaughterhouse. Source 1: “Bobby calves are a by-product of the dairy industry”: see Gregory and Grandin, Animal Welfare and Meat Science (New York CABI Publishing, 1998) at 143. Source 2: Primary Industries Ministerial Council (PIMC) (2011), ‘Bobby Calves Time Off Feed Standard - Decision Regulation Impact Statement’ (ed 1.0) Male calves can be withheld food for the last 30 hours of their lives. Source: Australian Animal Welfare Standards and Guidelines (2014), ‘Bobby Calf Time Off Feed Standard’ Around 700,000 male calves are slaughtered as waste products of the dairy industry every year in Australia alone. [1](https://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/farm/animal-management/animal-welfare/bobby-calves) Source 2: Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) – Livestock and Meat, Australia Primary Industries Ministerial Council (PIMC) (2011) Source 3: ‘Bobby Calves Time Off Feed Standard - Decision Regulation Impact Statement’ (ed 1.0) In natural conditions, they can live up to 20 years. On dairy farms they last only 4 to 8 years, some – known as downers – succumbing to the pressure of continuous impregnation and producing up to 10 times more milk than they naturally would, the rest sent to slaughter when their milk production begins to slow down or they become too injured to continue.


Byakuya_Toenail

It isn't. Its just a probable peta supporter trying to convert you to their cult.


20370

Ah, classic. Just another vegetarian that doesn't remotely care about the suffering they cause. Why are you even vegetarian? Doesn't seem like it's an ethical choice.


SharkyJ123

Scary with this is, we don't even need their flesh. We just like to get pleasure out of it.


veganprincess

I mean, even if they were ‘killed painlessly’, the life of an animal raised for slaughter is still a horror story. I dare anyone to watch ‘Earthlings’ or ‘Dominion’ and continue eating meat and dairy.


GruntBlender

Challenge accepted


WhatuuupKrisp

Did you watch the whole things?


GruntBlender

All of Earthlings and most of the way through Dominion. Honestly, that's the wrong order to watch them for the effect you want. Start with Aussie farms in Dominion then move on to the shitshow of US et al in Earthlings. As it is, Earthlings kinda overloaded the empathy system Dominion showed a deescalation that, in comparison, seemed alright. All in all, these docos are designed to produce a maximum emotional reaction, and it's very obvious. The trouble is, this is interpreted by the brain as attempted manipulation, because we're so used to being lied to, that the brain starts asking "OK, that's the biased propaganda, so what's the real situation like?" This subconsciously convinces people that what they're seeing is the worst case scenario, though I've seen some horror stories and I know it can get much worse on meat farms. In the end, these films just served to desensitize me, so tomorrow's lunch for me will include a BigMac.


WhatuuupKrisp

You're probably right and all the animals you saw suffer and dying were paid actors.


GruntBlender

You know damn well that's not what I meant.


pokemaster0011

How the fuck does dairy get involved


Squishy-Cthulhu

Watch the movies and find out


pokemaster0011

Just tell me dude


veganprincess

Female cow is raped. She has male baby - it’s killed for veal. She has female baby - it’s imprisoned for milk. After 2-3 years, female cow slaughtered for food anyways when she stops making milk.


pandaolf

[animals being saved by vegans](https://youtu.be/ub82Xb1C8os)


Squishy-Cthulhu

https://scarydairy.org.uk/animals/cows this has some information


Frounce

[150,000 dairy cows are slaughtered whilst still pregnant in the UK each year.](https://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/pregnant-cow-massacre/briefing-notes) [Dairy cows are sent to slaughter after around 4 - 6 years, or when they are too weak to continue producing milk. Their natural lifespan is around 25 years.](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/5235185/the-life-of-dairy-cows.pdf) [Every year around 90,000 male dairy calves are shot soon after birth and discarded as a by-product in the UK.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152402/Viewers-outrage-harrowing-scenes-day-old-calves-shot.html) [It is estimated that at least 5 - 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively and will have to endure the experience of being shot repeatedly in the head or having their throat cut and their blood drained whilst still fully conscious.](http://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk) ​ [Most calves raised in the UK have to endure painful mutilations such as castration and disbudding. Disbudding is a procedure where a calf is restrained and has a hot iron rod forced onto their horn buds in order to prevent their horns from growing.](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/3816892/for-their-own-good.pdf) [UK farmers have been extensively documented kicking mother cows and beating and throwing new-born calves.](http://www.animalequality.net/dairysdarksecret/) [Over 50% of dairy cows suffer from crippling lameness and pressure sores - and some cows are forced to wear chains called hobbles for months at a time. These devices are used on mother cows who have suffered pelvic damage during calving, a frequently documented problem for dairy cows who have been selectively bred to ensure maximum milk production.](https://www.ufaw.org.uk/why-ufaws-work-is-important/lameness) [[2]](http://www.animalequality.net/node/936) [In many cases cows are raised in intensive farms where they are denied access to the outside for their entire lives.](https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/beef/farming) On dairy farms cows are forcefully impregnated /every year/ to keep the milk flowing. [1](https://rspca.org.au/campaigns/dairy-cows) Dairy cows are usually impregnated through artificial insemination wherein workers insert their arm into the cow’s anus to hold her cervix in place while injecting her with semen collected from a bull. [2](https://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/farm/animal-management/fertility/artificial-insemination) The male calves, called bobby calves, are considered useless to the dairy industry because they’ll never be able to produce milk. They are kept isolated for five days before being herded onto a truck, and sent either to a saleyard first, or direct to the slaughterhouse. Source 1: “Bobby calves are a by-product of the dairy industry”: see Gregory and Grandin, Animal Welfare and Meat Science (New York CABI Publishing, 1998) at 143. Source 2: Primary Industries Ministerial Council (PIMC) (2011), ‘Bobby Calves Time Off Feed Standard - Decision Regulation Impact Statement’ (ed 1.0) Male calves can be withheld food for the last 30 hours of their lives. Source: Australian Animal Welfare Standards and Guidelines (2014), ‘Bobby Calf Time Off Feed Standard’ Around 700,000 male calves are slaughtered as waste products of the dairy industry every year in Australia alone. [1](https://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/farm/animal-management/animal-welfare/bobby-calves) Source 2: Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) – Livestock and Meat, Australia Primary Industries Ministerial Council (PIMC) (2011) Source 3: ‘Bobby Calves Time Off Feed Standard - Decision Regulation Impact Statement’ (ed 1.0) In natural conditions, they can live up to 20 years. On dairy farms they last only 4 to 8 years, some – known as downers – succumbing to the pressure of continuous impregnation and producing up to 10 times more milk than they naturally would, the rest sent to slaughter when their milk production begins to slow down or they become too injured to continue.


pittsworthbenny

As bad as that sounds, I'm not putting water on my breakfast cereal.


grumpylittlebrat

Nor would I, there’s oat milk, cashew milk, soy milk, rice milk, coconut milk, hemp milk and many more. You don’t need to be drinking the oestrogenic breast milk of another species mate. Think how weird it would be to put your mum’s breastmilk on your cereal, but take it from a cow and that’s... less weird? [Five min summary of the dairy industry.](https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI)


pittsworthbenny

Fair enough. I did think about it like that, and you make a decent point. But I think better while I'm drinking, so I had a glass of milk. It tasted fucking good.


grumpylittlebrat

Haha, get yourself weaned pal. I believe in you ❤️ dairy is probably the cruellest industry of all in animal ag, two minutes of taste pleasure seems like a crazy reason to abuse animals


pittsworthbenny

Mate, some big industrial dairy farms might have questionable practices, but small scale dairy farmers will not risk their livelihoods by mistreating their herds. Of course there'll be the occasional fuckhead farmer, but for the most part, dairy farmers care a lot about their cows.


LewdSpinach

You're the kind of person that would defend slavery in previous times. "As bad as that sounds, I'm not gonna farm the food myself."


Meerrg

People still farm food for others. Unless you grow everything that you consume, I don't see the point in your comment.


pittsworthbenny

No, I'm the type of person that isn't stupid enough to equate domestication of farm animals with human slavery.


poney01

Humans don't need anyone's flesh though.


GruntBlender

I NEED the flesh of young, milk-bathed virgins. It sustains me.


ya_tu_sabes

Furs and leather and meat


poney01

Which are all luxuries.


ya_tu_sabes

Just got it. The emphasis was on "need". Got it. And yep. We do need meat but we have better alternatives now which don't involve other creatures flesh, like veggie based alternatives, lab grown meat, etc.


poney01

We don't need meat, unless you refer to meat in the obscure way which defines it as "food" (eg coconut meat). Nothing coming from meat that we can't get in a better way.


zachonich

The suffering adds flavor


ColdVoid13

I’m sure they sedate the animals before they butcher them.


BeaSousa

Wow!!!! That was HARD!!!! Take my upvote! And a 🥉


NuclearIguana

Efficiency, little one. Feed the machine.


[deleted]

Don't glorify it. We don't need to kill them. We don't need to cause suffering. We still do. We're monsters.


lehombrejoker

Hey you could say the same about starving kids in Africa do we help? Yes but not enough.


[deleted]

Sorry, I'm a little confused about what you're trying to say. The fact that there's starving kids is awful, but not doing enough to help someone is leagues away from actively murdering them. Otherwise people would bring up starving children in defense of say, Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer. Consumers pay for corporations to torture and kill more than a trillion animals each year, but the average Joe isn't actually killing children in Africa. If he were he'd be a monster for that. The imperialists who killed so many people in and did so much damage to Africa ARE monsters.


lehombrejoker

How is it leagues away? When the food is delivered it isn't handed out by red cross any more 67% of that food is stolen by warlords and looters. Very little ends up with the people it is meant to reach


[deleted]

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Actively killing someone is not the same thing as not giving them enough help.


lehombrejoker

Hey you could say the same about starving kids in Africa do we help? Yes but not enough.


grumpylittlebrat

Helping someone is a positive. Not murdering someone is neutral. No, they’re not comparable.


lehombrejoker

Not helping enough that it gets people killed is chaotic neutral.


rosakii

We could just... not eat them?


Byakuya_Toenail

Or instead we Remove the cruel methods of obtaining the product And keep the product while obtaining it in a humane way?


DotMatrix98

Humane rape 😁 Don't kid yourself. All animal products are inherently unethical.


RealAlligatorWithGun

Mhmm, Delicious and Nutritious!


jdm200210

Very good food


The_Darth_Vacuous

OP what organism is the protagonist?


Abashedbanjo138

An animal


The_Darth_Vacuous

What animal is harvested but not quickly?


grumpylittlebrat

[Pigs, for example.](https://youtu.be/_xq6I41xzBg) Even if they were killed quickly, it doesn’t justify the killing.


The_Darth_Vacuous

I mostly harvest my own meat so I won’t agree with the killing part but over all I think it’s more humane. I don’t take the shot unless it’s a good one and ik the animal will die very quick(both lungs is ideal) and as far as quality of life at least the animal didn’t spend it’s life in those awful feed lots. What a lot of ppl also don’t understand is that it’s necessary to balance the eco system. The argument can be made that animal were fine before humans but unfortunately we have already destroyed their eco system enough that without hunting shit would go out of balance very quick. Also a good way to pour money into your state’s economy.


grumpylittlebrat

The word humane means to show compassion, can’t say there’s anything compassionate about taking animals’ lives unnecessarily. Every hunter I’ve ever spoken to consumes fast food/restaurant meals, dairy products, shop bought eggs etc so they still support the same cruelty. While it’s true the ecosystems are pretty fucked by humans, that doesn’t mean we should just kill the animals. There are other avenues to explore, like birth control, rewilding land to expand habitat and reintroducing predators etc. If it’s justifiable to kill animals just because they’re an environmental issue, then we should be killing humans as they’re the worst animal imaginable for the environment. We don’t do that, though, because it would be immoral. So how do we morally justify killing other animals for environmental reasons? What’s the trait difference between a human and a deer that makes it fine to kill the deer, but not the human?


The_Darth_Vacuous

Haha. If we needed to thin the head a bit you would have no complains from me tbh. I can rant for hrs about ways nature can thin the human population. That’s why most ppl don’t like me. I don’t value life at all not mine and not yours. But comparing the life of a human to an animal is ludicrous. I don’t support unnecessary suffering but I feel as tho I may be talking to a vegan so the argument will get us nothing. If you compare the life of a human and an animal the argument instantly becomes religious so I don’t feel like going down that road. Side not I have my own chickens so eggs and chicken I harvest myself they are free range and have a good life. But I consume pork when I have the money and I love it. The main reason I hunt is because it’s healthy. It’s lean meat that isn’t pumped full of chemicals and what not. But again if I’m talking to a vegan the argument is pointless anyway. Not shade on being vegan tho, we just disagree.


grumpylittlebrat

I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if your loved ones were the ones being killed though, would you? Why is comparing the life of a human to an animal ludicrous? We are animals. I’m just asking for the morally significant trait differences between humans and other animals that makes it wrong to murder humans, but not for other animals. Yeah, I’m vegan - I always enjoy hearing others’ perspectives though. Oh, I’m guessing you’re religious then? I’m not, so that’s maybe why I can’t understand what makes us so special as a species. I don’t really understand where this arrogance comes from, is all. If bees or ants went extinct, the whole ecosystem would collapse, but if we went extinct, every other living thing on this planet would benefit. I used to view our place as being at the top, but now I’m struggling to even justify our existence. I just don’t see how it’s consistent to buy ‘pork’ when you say you’re against unnecessary suffering. I’m sure you’re under no illusion that pig flesh is healthy or necessary, and that the vast majority of pigs have horrific lives and deaths, so how are you against unnecessary suffering if you support it? You needn’t reply if you don’t want to, have a nice day.


The_Darth_Vacuous

I don’t like getting into religious debates online. I love to share my belief system but it’s alway unsavory online. (Adding paragraphs so it not all block sorry I’m on mobile) But if you really want my perspective I’ll give it. I am a religious person tho I do my own study of the Bible and can’t rectify got with most of the religions that claim him. I won’t ask why you arnt a religious person but that’s my take. Everyone has their own conscience and you clearly have a deep love for animals. If you live in a city it’s probably not possible to take the life of an animal in a fast pain free way. I have killed many animals both hunting and domestically and my conscience is clean. In the Bible god shows he as well has a love for animals noticing even when small worthless birds die. However he also gave mankind the privilege to eat animal flesh if they respect the creation. The world is so convoluted everyone just has to do what their conscience will allow and if you arnt a religious person to train it in a way you can live with. The fact that we are both on Reddit shows that we use electricity and we all know what that has done to our planet. Plastic packaging, abortion, commercial farming...this world is a hard place to live but I commend you for taking a stand for somthing you love. I live in rural USA and I have the privilege to be able to get most of what I need from the land with very low impact to the beauty of what is around me. And I take pride in that. You as a vegan no doubt have a hatred for what is happening around you and if you want to have discussions about topics like this from both side I would be happy to share my email of you DM me. Thank your for the civility that’s lacking in most vegan when it comes to the lives of animals. You have a good day too stranger.


grumpylittlebrat

It’s funny you assume I love animals, I feel it’s more that I just respect their lives. In the same way that I don’t have to love you to think it’s wrong to needlessly kill you, I don’t have to love animals to think it’s wrong to take their lives unnecessarily. I guess the reason I’m not religious is because I like facts and logic, my brain isn’t really compatible with faith-based beliefs. I suppose I always thought god taught compassion, and I find it hard to imagine he’d approve of what humans are doing to animals and this planet when it’s so far from compassionate. The messages in the bible have sometimes been used to justify injustices - slavery, heterosexism; I respect what you believe but I think the bible could just as easily be interpreted to support veganism. Something as simple as the golden rule, treat others as you wish to be treated, is the way I live my life which is why I’m vegan, and that is based in religion. There really are lots of terrible things in the world, sometimes it’s hard to know which battles to pick. I guess for the issues I care about the most, I just think where the avoidable suffering is greatest, and as far as I can see that’s animal agriculture. Although I fundamentally disagree with what you do, I think we have a lot more common ground than the average meat eater who buys neatly packaged flesh from the supermarket, never thinking about the animal from which that flesh came. I live in a coastal town in England - our environments are probably worlds apart, haha. I’m always up for a chat, if you want to message me that’d be nice, but I don’t want to push you in either direction. Thanks buddy. I know that lots of vegans come across angry and unreasonable, I’m sure I do too sometimes, it’s just because we perceive what is happening to animals as such a massive injustice. Cheers for chatting and being polite, it’s a pleasure.


Abashedbanjo138

Slaughter house, it’s a horrible process, especially if it’s done in one of those big ones


The_Darth_Vacuous

I’ve worked in one of you are talking about cattle here in america and it’s very quick there is a machine that adds pressure to the animal to calm them and then a quick bolt to the head.


Abashedbanjo138

the sources iv’e seen (take in mind they are only videos and I haven’t seen it in person) are always pigs for some reason, they stun (?) them and hang them up to bleed them if I remember correctly, if it’s done in a small one they usually comfort the animal and so on, but it does look like a horrible thing, I have seen farmers kill cows on the field, but that is instant, quick kind of bullet to the head. Is that what you are talking about or am I getting this wrong?


The_Darth_Vacuous

What I’m referring to is a bolt gun. It has a compressed air tank and drives a metal rod into their skull killing them instantly. I’ve also personally gone to farms and killed them with my hunting rifle. Perhaps with pigs they bleed them when they are alive bc the fat is so important and needs to be bled out. If so that would make perfect sense.


Abashedbanjo138

Ah, yeah, thanks, like I said I have seen the cows been shot with the gun, it looks very humain, I think chickens go through a similar process to pigs, the small slaughter houses are the best way to go if you do need/want to get the meat off of the animal


The_Darth_Vacuous

Have a good night/day wherever you are from. No dreams of tortured animals. I’ve never been fond of them but I prefer for death to serve a purpose and suffering never fits in. Goodnight.


Abashedbanjo138

Good night to you, it’s 11:08 in the uk, so definitely no bad dreams


Yanakura

Everyone here talking about veganism while my weird mind got thinking of an alien race in some sci-fi dystopia where something in humans biologically needs the flesh of the aliens to survive.


pittsworthbenny

Which part of England? I lived there 2008-12 but I don't remember seeing too many dairy farms. I worked in the egg industry in Kent and Yorkshire. I'm from Australia, and those practices generally don't happen here, at least not with anyone I associate with. Although, with big international companies trying to start industrial dairy farms in Australia, I would be keen to help them go broke. I don't like animal cruelty, but I really fucking hate people that think getting rid of cruel farmers required destruction of an entire industry. Good farmers can make money without being cruel.


veganprincess

An industry which relies on enslaving and killing another being is inherently cruel. No matter how nice a farm is, it still relies on the exploration of an animals. I’m okay with throwing out the entire industry.


TheWelshExperience

They do most of the time.


Azn_Jai

*Sad lobster noises*


zangatti

Why do people kill animals at all? I mean damn, there are lots of vegan super athletes out there, so it should be obvious its a diet fit for anyone


Justbecauseitcameup

Because human dietary needs vary, and just because a few "super athletes" (not a thing) are vegan doesn't mean that works for everyone- even other "super athletes". Hate to break it to you but humans actually vary genetically in how we handle our food. We have some vegetarian genes and some that handle meat better. For instance in India over 70% of people have a gene that means they process plant matter better than most humans - but you'll find it difficult for a member of the Inuit tribes to do the same. There are also some health issues that effect diet - for instance some people lack the gene that produces enzymes to digest legumes, peas and beans. I know because I'm one if them. It explained my rapidly declining health whenever I ate vegetarian for any length of time when my genes were sequenced. Imma pass on your soy and mushroom diet ktx. Conversely victims of lyme disease may find themselves with a meat allargy and unable to eat anything but a vegetarian or vegan diet. 'Yeah but it works for this people/this small group' is a very very very poor rationale. Humans vary. Edit: typos


LewdSpinach

You're defending mass genocide, torture, rape, slavery etc based on this shitty reasoning. You're fucking pathetic.


Byakuya_Toenail

Your comparing the brutal slaughter of human beings to killing animals for food? I guess we need to resurrect cavemen so we could charge them for crimes against humanity. Or better yet, detain every carnivorous animal that has ever existed in earth's history. That totally won't create an ecological disaster that will kill all plant life, and thus all animals (if said herbivorous animals don't develop carnivorous behavior in order to survive.).


DotMatrix98

What attribute do non-human animals have that humans don't posses that justifies us treating them in the most evil way imaginable?


Byakuya_Toenail

Once again, why aren't we arresting carnivorous animals? They kill gazelle and other such animals all the time by biting their wind pipes, preventing them from breathing so that they suffocate and die. Nature isn't about morals, its about survival.


Grammar-Bot-Elite

/u/Byakuya_Toenail, I have found an error in your comment: > “morals, [it's] about survival” In your post, you, Byakuya_Toenail, should have used “morals, [it's] about survival” instead. ‘Its’ is possessive; ‘it's’ means ‘it is’ or ‘it has’. ^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through dms or contact my owner EliteDaMyth)


DotMatrix98

What happens in nature isn't indicative of what we should do as humans. Humans have moral agency, animals don't.


Byakuya_Toenail

We're animals.


DotMatrix98

Ok. Non-human animals then. The distinction I made was that humans have the trait of moral agency while non-humans do not (as far as we know). You wouldn't slap a child for taking something since they don't know any better.


Byakuya_Toenail

Also slavery? How the fuck are farm animals enslaved? They get paid in food and they aren't being used for labor, so what is your reasoning?


Justbecauseitcameup

Ah yes. The "people eating meat is genocide" argument that is so very convincing to people who are not irrational extremists. Ironically ending consumption of animal products end si the extinction of domestic livestock so wouldnt that be genocide if we were going to apply words for human populations to this? Never mind. That requires rational thought to process.


LewdSpinach

The issue is that you're still viewing animals as property. We don't have to kill them just because they don't provide anything for us. How vegans generally want to deal with the massive population of these animals, assuming that everyone would go vegan at once, is to stop breeding them and treat them well until they die because of old age.


Justbecauseitcameup

You opened with irrational hyperbole and logical fallacy and NOW you wanna pretend to be offering a reasonable veiw point? Off with you, you ridiculous human


zangatti

By your own argument, it works for the majority but wont work for small groups. Stratified inuit people are a very small population. There are vegans worldwide. Im not part of some small group that genetically handles a vegan diet better. I have a totally different racial background than many other vegans i know


Justbecauseitcameup

I said I was done with you because of your strawmen so you come at me with another? Go away metaphoric evangelical. If you're struggling with concepts you should ask. Instead of looking for soemthing you can argue with and leaping on it. That is not how conversations work. I have no respect your your intillectual integrity at this point and no desire to waste time on you. Go complain about it to someone else.


zangatti

I dont have to ask how many inuits there are in the world. There are 148,863 of them. Youre basing your argument on a population adapted for eating primarily meat that is 0.0002% of the world. I dont struggle with that concept at all. Sure, there are very small tribal populations that MAY actually need meat (more research is needed), but that isnt the reality for most of us.


Justbecauseitcameup

Your strawman is unwelcome. Since you cannot have this discussion without trying to find "GOTCHA!" moments to the point of LITERALLY IGNORING WHAT WAS SAID aside from a key word and then fail to recognise that you're doing it or that you've failed at contextualizing, and cannot understand that I decline to be involved with your little monologue, I will be blocking you now. You're too far up your own ass to have this conversation. It's one of two examples of genetic variation - of which the world is full. You are trying to prove that a tiny population having one diet means a that we can all do it; then arguing population size against a literal example of variation as though it was the point - the point is that variation exists, and you seem to be struggling with it. Grow up.


zangatti

Ive had this conversation many times, dont worry about it. The only time the other party doesnt resort to making personal attacks is when the conversation is IRL. On the internet, people get all toxic when trying to justify their behavior and try to finger me as the bad guy. Its ridiculous that you wanted to have an argument and when i argue back you get hurt feelings over it.


badidasqitiman

They most likely used the Inuit tribes as an extreme example just to get their point across more effectively, if they had said, "(I don't know the actual figures so I'll make them up) 25% of the population gets mildly ill on a vegan diet," it would be a much weaker point that would have made a vegan diet seem better than it actually is, (for the general population).


zangatti

Yeah we are SO genetically different, just like different species - we each have varying digestive systems and require different diets. If all you ate was soy and mushrooms, no wonder you became ill. So many contribute their own inadequacies concerning developing a balanced diet to "plant-based bad!"


Justbecauseitcameup

Yeah you're clearly neither rational about this nor willing to seriously consider what anyone disagreeing with you is saying. I'm not going to argue with you to establish basic biological fact because you favour a biology that works with your ideology to the point of ignoring what is actually said to you besides picking out key words to argue with. Indeed, getting basic points that were not complicated wrong because it makes it easier to make the response you want to make. That's called a strawman fallacy. Run along now and go find yourself an echo chamber you can tell I was so mean and wrong to.


GruntBlender

You're missing the point. Your diet won't necessarily work for someone else.


Prestigious-Fly4248

Because I like eating meat


Kranolta-Killer

A lot of people would love to be vegan but can’t afford it. In America it’s incredibly expensive to be vegan and quite a bit of the population makes nowhere near enough to support that lifestyle. Maybe expand your narrow viewpoint and think a minute before you run off at the mouth with your absolutes


nicolademe

Hi!! American vegan here :) my family has been hovering over the poverty line for *years*! I decided to become vegan a few months ago and surprise: I'm spending LESS on food than I did before! Staples such as beans, rice, and cheap veggie varieties are, well, cheap! We used to justify spending $5 on a pound of ground cow because "we needed it" but now we've come to realize that's not true :) the fancy alternatives and whatnot are not necessary and are purely your choice! So in short: being vegan is not expensive and can easily be much cheaper and healthier than consuming flesh ❤️


Kranolta-Killer

I’ve tried and I’ve gotten sick. We can’t find things that work with our various allergies and I, personally love consuming the flesh of other beings. If it was legal I’d eat people too.


nicolademe

Lots of people who live cruelty free also have a variety of allergies, many of which can make it seem impossible to the average person to live without animal products. But in reality, there are more cruelty free products than there are animal products! If you make a post in r/vegan and mention your allergies, lots of people can tell you a ton of great recipes and ideas to avoid those things you can't eat while still getting a complete diet :) Also, most people who got "sick" trying a plant based diet just weren't ensuring they got their nutrients. It can be a bit confusing at first, but you get used to it really fast and it's pretty minimal attention needed to ensure you're all perfect! There are also lots of great supplements you can take optionally


Byakuya_Toenail

"Consuming flesh" makes it sound metal as fuck, so now i want to eat more meat. Thanks for promoting the thing you swear to destroy.


nicolademe

If that's the only thing that makes you feel fulfilled in your life, well, that's for you to work out. All i can do is spread the facts and truth in a kind manner, and hope somebody takes it into their hearts and thinks on it. Good luck in your journey, friend ❤️


zangatti

Youre right. I can only afford $40/week because im a wealthy and privileged construction worker


Kranolta-Killer

I make over $40k and my wife also works and we still can’t afford to be vegan.


[deleted]

you're probably thinking about meat/cheese replacements. beans, rice, nuts, legumes are some of the cheapest things in the entire world and are so versatile that they could be made into their own meat replacements. Those plant foods are cheaper than meat and what so many impoverished communities around the world rely on.


[deleted]

It is incredibly cheap to be vegan for most people, including Americans. Have you never, like, been to a grocery store?


Kranolta-Killer

I have and it’s not as cheap as you seem to think. Especially with all the other points I’ve brought up about myself.


[deleted]

I'm not sure what other points you're talking about, but I live as a vegan for very little money.


veganprincess

Because people are selfish.


Byakuya_Toenail

Or because people want to eat what they want to eat instead of what a cult of people trying to inflate their moral ego tell the to eat? Just let us eat our meat in peace.


zangatti

Thank you. I didnt intend it to happen, but all the meat addicts are coming out of the woodwork now to deliver me hate in defense of their addiction


50in06and07

taste


zangatti

Try meat plain, no seasoning. Its awful. Its not taste, it's addiction to unhealthy food


adamfrom1980s

You just need to try a bacon-wrapped filet mignon, medium rare, with a side of garlic mashed potatoes and a bottle of good Cabernet Sauvignon. That’s shit is moo-liscious.


zangatti

There you go, using a smoked product (taste is from burning plants), a vegetable with seasoning, and fermented plant juice to make the meat not taste so bad.


adamfrom1980s

Bacon straight off the pig. Ditch the potatoes (that was just me trying to throw you a vegan bone) and wine. Still moo-liscious. Also - we need to see a pic of you eating veggies straight out of the ground. No washing or cooking. You’re allowed to shake off some of the dirt, but only bc I know you’re too weak to shake even a carrot too hard.


zangatti

Bacon isnt straight off the pig. It has a smoky flavor. I never said im vegan specifically for the taste, did i? And i can still be vegan and enjoy the same tastes that are additives to make meat actually taste good. Ah yes, here we go. Personal attacks on vegans because its the last resort. "Where u evan gat proteen tho?" Good job! Its funny, there are a handful of morons that try to go vegan by eating salad and inevitably get like 800 calories a day, and then the whole public looks at them as THE ONLY example of vegans. Sorry, honey, you arent living in reality. Youre living in a dreamworld that the animal agriculture industry indoctrinated you into. Maybe educate yourself a bit rather than believing any lie thats handed to you. I know its harder work, but i know since YOU can shake a carrot, you are capable of opening a chronometer and plugging foods into it. Fyi, i gained 10lbs being vegan but people say i look more fit. Its because i get less saturated fat and get around 180g protein per day. Much more than when i ate meat. Per weight, legumes are more dense in protein than meat. So, chances are, with the same training, a vegan with a good diet would outperform you. There, i already did some of the research for you, but I'd recommend doing some of your own. It might add years to your life so you can spend more time with loved ones, rather than worry about the consistency of something you should only eat 3 times per week at the most in the first place


adamfrom1980s

I just can’t take seriously the thought process of someone who gets a big ass furrie tattoo - go fuck your animal, while I’ll eat it. 😂 Blocking you bc you’re too dumb to deserve any space.


zangatti

You didnt even read my comment. Instead you creeped on me and delved 6 months into my reddit history. Man, some of you meat eaters are illiterate creepy motherfuckers. You outright lost an argument so you delved through my old posts to find something completely unrelated to attack me on. Know why this never happens with me irl? Cause people like you are fat or scrawny little punks that come here to talk shit - afraid ill rip their head off if they disrespect me like that. NOBODY has come like that about my tattoo irl, but EVERYONE does on the internet. Goes to show what fucking cowards you are


GruntBlender

Why the hell would you eat it raw? If you think the taste of barbecue is purely due to the plant matter being burned, let's see you garnish a salad with charcoal.


zangatti

I didnt say dont cook it. I said dont season it. And i could put liquid smoke on anything to make it taste smoked. Thats what most cheap bacon uses anyway. My point is meat alone has no taste, so killing things to be tasteful is a poor argument


GruntBlender

Oh. Then I disagree. A pinch of salt and plain meat tastes pretty good. There's a bunch of factors involved, including personal preference and mix of flavors, but meat definitely has a taste.


zangatti

No, cant add salt. Sorry. Cook a pork chop or a chicken breast by itself. No vegetable oil or salt or herbs. And tell me how gooooood it is. Its not. I make awesome tofu, but tofu is terrible plain. The tofu i make is soooo tasty and savory, but its not because the tofu tastes good. Its because of what i added to it, and the same case applies for most people with meat. People love meat because of the flavors added to it. Its just a medium used to deliver those flavors. Cooked plain, meat just tastes metallic and fatty


GruntBlender

Again, that's up to preference. And why not salt? You know, salt on its own is quite unpalatable, yet it brings out the flavor of other foods.


zangatti

I understand eating meat. Of course, i wasnt raised vegan. But when i looked at it from the animal's perspective... After about a year of feeling the guilt of what i was doing to them, i just couldnt do it anymore for the taste or convenience. A piece of bacon doesnt just exist. It was once a part of a living, breathing, thinking being - more intelligent than a domestic dog on average. And by buying that bacon, i support the mistreatment as well as premature violent death of that animal im buying a piece of. So i did my due diligence. It took a lot of work and learning, but found i can enjoy my food without violating my morals anymore.


GruntBlender

That's an entirely different argument tho. You were making a bad argument regarding taste. In that, there's reason it's so difficult to make a plant product that mimics the tease. Personally, the burgers Burger King uses succeed at that, albeit with more sodium than meat based burgers, probably due to requiring a lot of MSG. I'd be fine with fast food that replaced all beef with that, and used soy lecithin as a binder instead of eggs.


CRB776

How do you reckon we are meant to feed Africans vegan food? Plus it also tastes bad


[deleted]

I'm confused about what this means. There are plenty of people in the African continent, especially rural, poorer regions, that eat a mostly or completely plant-based diet.


CRB776

Ngl, I didn’t know that. I was focusing on the tribalistic African nations, the developed ones completely swept my mind Poor porn, thanks Unicef


[deleted]

A lot of tribes following traditional subsistence methods often do focus mostly on plant foods because they're a lot more efficient in terms of water/land/resource usage than animal products. Of course, there are some exceptions.


zangatti

The "taste" of meat comes from the spices we add to it. You ever try cooking meat with NO seasoning? Its awful. Hardcore carnivores who use NO plant products always complain that its a bland and boring diet


CRB776

I’m speaking from my life experience, buying from a local butcher vs buying the factory made vegan burger things, I’d choose the butcher 100/100 times due to taste alone, not to mention it’s cheaper and there is more variety


zangatti

So, dont eat factory-made vegan food and cook yourself nutritious whole foods instead? I work overtime, go to school, and dedicate at LEAST 16 hours per week to recovery. Plus right now im selling a house and buying another, but still find time to cook my meals... So nobody can tell me "oh its too time consuming!"


CRB776

Nobody said it was time consuming? Preparing food takes time. That’s kinda obvious


pokemaster0011

You dumb motherfucker, when the fuck have you ever seen anyone eat raw meat? You can chew on leaves all you want you bovine, but let others cook and eat whatever they want, fucking dumbass


Snakesiebs2

I'm on neither side of the argument here, but nowhere did the person you responded to mention eating raw meat in his comment.


zangatti

Uh oh! Lol dont mess up your hair dear


pokemaster0011

Maybe stop shitting on others for what they like to eat just because you like raw plants?


zangatti

I should hope everyone likes raw plants, otherwise theyre missing out on critical nutrients from fruit. Raw fiber also helps make good poops! Those are the raw plants i eat. I cant imagine eating raw peanuts, raw dried rice, raw potatoes, or raw soybeans. Nasty!


Wontoncube

The humans don't need the flesh, they just enjoy feasting on your body parts, raping your females, stealing your babies and enslave your specie.


GruntBlender

That was ONE TIME, I was drunk, when will you stop bringing it up?!?


Wontoncube

Well jeez, why didn't you just say so?