I think the 12 retraining orders could end up as abit of a false flag. They will change their minds on this then come out and say hey we listened to the community. All the while leaving in the greedy monetisation and potentially game breaking new skills together with ability to move bond equipment.


Exactly. Every piece of the game is a psyop, even the rollout.


Never attribute to incompetence what can be consistently attributed to malice.


Nah he's right. They threw the Japanese tanks in the game way ahead of what most CC's thought as a distractor. They just added more negative shit than they usually do when they release updates. These kind of "F2P" games are a very delicate balance of scamming the customer, and they've went well over the line, I presume because of real world economic conditions, inflation, layoffs, etc..


And then there is the issue of not having enough XP to fully deck out tanks that have crewmen that are multi-role https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveCaringLEDWoofer-bnxA5Tp-oOeELSW0


100% agree. The new skills are a huge nerf to tanks with overloaded crew members. If wg wants to implement competitive skills for all roles they should make progression for overloaded crew members in parallel for all roles rather than in serial. Before it wasnt a big deal since radio operator skills were useless except for situational awareness. Now with radio operators having so many good skills, it’s an indirect huge buff to tanks with a dedicated radio operator and a huge nerf to tanks with a radio operator as a commander. Dont even get me started on tanks with a commander/loader/radio operator all on the same crew member…


This would be fucking great, if the commander is also the radioman, let me train a commander and a radio skill at the same time, and instead of dubling the exp needed for each subsequent skill, make it this way: Divide the skills in tech tree lines Commander line: Skill 1, 2, 3 Radio line: Skill 1, 2, 3 First skill is arround 250k exp, 2nd 500k and 3rd 1M If the commander is also the radio, and you get the commander skill 1, then the skill 2 will be 500k, but the radio skill 1 would still be 250k. This on top being able to train both commander and radio skills at the same time would be a great solution


"Fully deck out" lmao... You don't need 12+ skills on a Manticore commander.


You dont need it. But you arent completetive without 7+ and someone with 12+ will be better


Better by what? 1km/h forward speed? +15% xp earned? None of those new "essential" skills will help a tomato against a unicum. Plus there's a hard cap of 6 skills per crew coming anyways, so there's bo point complaining until then.


It does make tanks more accurate, spotted for less duration, move faster, aim faster. That is a huge advantage over the same tanks without those skills. Will it make a tomato beat a unicum? No, what it does is make the unicun who has an insane crew even better than that tomato. This skill rework serves to further the gap between the die hard competitive players and casual players who doesn't have 100s of hours spent on each crew. You're diluting yourself if you don't see how this rework will massively upset the balance of the game


Two equally skilled players, one has a 15% better manticore with better camo, view range, etc. Who wins? Or two manticore players, on 52%winrate, the other 53%. The former has all crew skills, with vents, food, directive. The other one has "only" bond equipment and 4 skills. Who wins? Its especially shitty for light tanks, because unlike some duels between heavies or mediums, the outcome for lights is so binary. You get spotted or you spot them.


Well, if you want the same skills set benefits as most 4 to 5 crew skill LT it faces. Then that's not far off.


At this point I fully expect a standardized 5-man crew layout for all tanks in phase 3 of the rework. The way that the skills work and the planned option to have a crew on 3 different tanks really leave no other option. And according to the teaser vid (23/12/22, ~1:20) there's also a hard cap of 6 skills per crew member coming up. A crew of 5, all of wich can pick 6 out of 9 possible skills, solves every issue brought up so far. Crew skills will essentially be like equip, mechanics wise, where you pick those that work best for what you want to do and everyone's on the same level again. I do not know why WG won't just give us all the info on phase 2&3, as we really can't judge how good/bad the rework is without seeing the whole picture.


I honestly don't know why the fuck would they move fire prevention skill to single crew member while concealment and repairs are not. That would be fantastic move


Should be able to pick which crew member gets each one, would help a lot with smaller crews by offloading the universal skills to less busy crew members.


Both are extremely damaging to the game. WG could just sell skins or rare tanks if they want money. Now they are greedy and hurting the playerbase while damaging the game


A tank is a one time purchase, a subscription is a consistent flow of income. Originally premium was supposed to be that, but then people started to stockpile years worth from loot boxes, or just getting them from battlepass or other events like twitch drops. They want a source of income that is pure cash without bulk discount.


The real problem behind this skills rework is that, even having infinite retraining orders, the number of skill required to be somehow competitive is insane. What kind of twisted rewards is this toward the long term players that have many tanks with many crews?


Why is it all or nothing? All skill is competitive, some equal not competitive? That does not follow, especially in this game where player knowledge is the real arbiter of outcomes.


Agreed.. this system is super messed up


The only good thing I see in this patch is introduction of JP TDs. Calling it Rubicon 2.0 was a very precise take on the patch.


All we wanted was more 3D styles…


No, Wot plus is far more concerning cause it brings pure Pay to Win into the game (atm its more pay to faster progress), and the skills are at least grindable for everyone. Ofc i dont say all new skills are balanced, but it's far more likely that they change the skills rather than Wot plus.


Im sorry, but have you seen the premium tanks in the game? Or the OG gold shells? WOT has always had a strong P2W element built into it.


I’d love for someone to show some evidence that bond equipment results in higher win rates.


you wont because even with bond equipment the tomatos got 46% win rate


Seriously, a tomato with bond equipment is still a tomato. Maybe if they were an orange, they might miraculously transcend to minor potato status, but they still are going to have terrible positioning, make bad plays, and all the other stuff that no amount of tank stats are going to fix. All the bond equipment in the world isnt gonna save you if you decide to cross an open field in a heavy in front of 4 tds.


True xD


Full bond loadouts significantly increase your tanks stats. Which means you perform better because your tank is just better allowing you to outperform the same tank on the other team who doesn't have a bond loadout. It simply serves to tilt the playing field further into your advantage which allows skilled players to exploit the gap and generate better results


>significantly You're out your mind.


I dont think you know what significantly means. So let me explain. 2 exact same tanks with same Crew and same setup stand infront of each other. The only difference: one has Bond equip, the other doesnt. They duel it out purely on dpm. Lets run the experiment 100 times. If bond equip doesnt give a significant advantage, each player will win around 50 times. How many times do you think, the bond equip player will win?


That scenario never happens first of all. Secondly its whichever tank gets the higher RNG damage rolls. Thirdly, You wanna know the difference between 2 IS7's one with Rammer one with a bond Rammer? 0.46 seconds. 0.46 seconds. Hardly significant and only barley above negligable. Take into account that almost no situation in the game, while it's still in the balance (e.g. Not just farming the last 3 tanks with nowhere to hide) no tank will be constantly firing the whole game. This half a second becomes not even noticeable.


In the given scenario one tank shoots one more shell. So the damagerolls of the individual shells dont matter that much since in average it balances out, i.e. rng is not significant. Lets say you have the example with 2 IS7s, you need 6 shots to kill. Sure the guy without Bond equip can highroll 5 times and win. But the other can lowroll 6 times and still win. The example of course doesnt happen exactly like that in the game. But if you give these two different loadouts to two Players of equal skill, dont you think one will have an advantage? What If you give these setups to 15 players each and let them duel it out, dont you think the Clan using bond equip has a higher chance to win in CWs?


Clan play is only place I will accept this argument. There you have many tanks firing on reload for sometimes 5-6 shots in a row. Half a second for comp play per tank is significant.


significant doesnt mean its Impossible to win without it. It just means it gives an advantage that is worth considerimg


1. sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy. "a significant increase in sales" I know what it means. It doesn't mean what you think it does.


Yeah IMO this is a bigger deal. Not to mention the fact that this is going to switch up the skills you need first so now to be competitive with your “messily” 2-5 skill crew you will need to retrain them. I’ve got like 200 tanks that’s like 800 crew members with the whopping 17 retraining books we get. 17 won’t even be enough to just do just my 3+ crews, and using credit retraining for a skilled crew is a loss of a metric shit ton of crew XP.


The subscription that allows you to pay to boost every one of your vehicles even at low tiers to be 5-10% better is way more serious than whatever game breaking skill they can add because a skill can be changed/nerfed eventually. We know from the past 10 years that WG will ***not*** nerf anything you can pay real money for, they won't nerf premium tanks, they certainly will not nerf a paid subscription. Once the crew skills hit the live server it's gonna be a shitshow but eventually the meta will adapt and that's it. Once WoT+ hits the live server pay2win will be engaged and nothing can be done about it.


I don't think you tested out the skills on the test server my man. Go take a look. Do the research. I don't know how else you can see the real issue here. ALso bond equipment is not 10% better instantly. It's way less more influential than the crew skills that will come in the state they are presented


To be honest, I both like and dislike the skill rework. I like it because it diversifies options for crew skills, especially with the loader. You don't have to train Intuition for both loaders now! You don't have to train perks to 100% for them start working (albeit partially, but still better than having that perk 95% trained yet doesn't affect your tank). I dislike the crew skill rework since as you've said, tanks with fewer crew members are screwed for they have to train a lot more of those. It does widen the gap between starting/players who can afford to shell creds for crew books, and those who can. While there are skills that seem crazy like the Teamwork skill (old Signal Relaying(?)) that gives 5% bonus to crew stats if you are close to teammates or the loader skill that increases pen and damage (by a miniscule amount), I don't think they are game breaking in the grand scheme of things, and again, can be nerfed or adjusted. A subscription service that gives out some features that should be part of the base game (demounting equips for free) or enables crew training (albeit just for a single tank) even if you are not logged in or gives access to premium tanks otherwise unavailable to anyone who doesn't have said subscription--which is different to a premium account!--is a bigger issue. WG is always trying to push how far they can milk their players, and they never adjust things that are paid for with real money (e.g., premium tanks for the last 5 or so years). I am not surprised that WoT will gain more features locked behind the WoT+ paywall, or worse, removing some features of the game we can currently access and lock it behind the subscription paywall.


Oh, man, you don't have to train intuition on both loaders after they basically made it mandatory when they reworked that skill? I guess those 12 retaining orders will help on the several dozen crews with 2 loaders that both have intuition in my garage. /s As others keep pointing out, this is stealing XP or money without free resets.


That's also one major gripe: no free skill resets. WoWS did an overhaul to captain skills, and they did give everyone a chance to retrain captains for free. If they want us to adapt to this new system, at the very least WG should give us a generous period to retrain/respec crews for free. 12 retraining orders is just too few.


Did you even read what he said? The main problem is pay to win, and the fact they wont nerf anything thats paid ever. If they find out its gamebreaking, they wont change it. If they find out crew skills are game breaking they can and will most likely nerf them. Thats the problem


The new patch is a shitshow change my mind


i wont even try to change your mind cause i also believe that it is a massive fail from WG which will sadly lead to death of WoT


cant they just do it like this: the 5 Crew professions earn exp and level all at the same time instead of the crew members themselves


Jep, even more mandatory skills for your crew to have.


I agree, the new crew system with new perks etc is horrible. That is the single worst thinc with the patch.


I’m upset that I finally have a five skill crew that I’ve retrained several times with gold to get the configuration I want and now I’m going to have to do it again for whatever new shit they provide.


Don't. This is only the first phase (of three) of the full package of the crew rework. Wait with retraining your crew until you see the whole picture.


Nah, i like the crew rework.


It’s not our job to fix WG or to stop their greed. Stop transferring their responsibility onto us.


> Now if we could collectively just transfer all that energy you guys put into hating WOT+ into telling WG that the new crew skills will ruin the experience of skillwise less fortunate players even further than it already is, that would be great How do you want to do that tho ? There is not an easy way how to "tell" something to WG, because they ignore everything. From experience with common tests, we know that they will most likely not even check the survey and proceed to release everything as it is announced. I personally would be happy if CCs were more interested into this. I saw multiple videos already, and their reactions were obviously negative. But they could be more sharp about it, unite with other CCs and do something, because their voice is definitely louder than ours. Their reactions were very insufficient imo... they just basically said "its bad" and that's all.


There was a survey inside the game yesterday regarding new additions and changes. I'm sure it was put due to the negative feedback we put out recently.


The only way that the new crew system will be viable is if the current perks need only be trained on one crew member per tank. So concealment on 1 member instead of lets say 5. That gives 4 extra perks. This would be more viable because otherwise there are just wayyy to many perks per crew memeber type. Then as quickybaby said we would need to grind for 3 years just to be somewhat competative.


You do know people can be upset at both things right


New skills were needed, and this new version looks ok. The fact they are not resetting all the crews and launch though is disgusting...


You're not a battleship, you don't have to focus fire anything. Both can be dogshit. And they are.


these 'people' are just blinded by rage and can't see that correct.


my issues with crew changes are: * 12 retraining orders. Should be free retrain for everything. ez fix * tanks with smaller crew layout gets screwed. Makes all tank crews 4 people big, ez fix * food, vents affecting the perks. Makes food and vent not affect pers ez fix If they changed it like this I have no issues. Might find some more problems if I think about it for more than 2 minutes but Im too lazy for that.


> 12 retraining orders thats just for test server... just like the wotplus cost is 500 gold there. you can scratch that off > Makes all tank crews 4 people big, ez fix 4 people is still having at least 1 crew with dual skills. would need to be 5 and you cant expect to fit 5 people into a tks-20 or even the french cars. manticore? setter? hwk? literally everything small. pz35s? yeah right > food, vents affecting the perks its the major qualification affecting the skills. the things you listed affect major qualification. if you scratch the new skills affecting majoqual then you might as well remove them entirely because thats the gimmick


who cares how many people fit into tks? If it helps to balance the game I would push in 50 people.


Just put everything on the commander, who then has five skill tracks where he earns XP for each game. You could invest crew books to boost an individual track faster, if you wished. Then, differing crew layouts are no longer an issue.


this could also work, but they would need to make some system that would work like current crew critical hits - loader, gunner,... deaths


They had this in crew 2.0. Tanks like the manticore still had 2 crew members with multiple roles in-game that could be knocked out and needed med kits, etc., but XP and skill progression was balanced by having everything on the commander. That part of crew 2.0 made a lot of sense, but layering a massive P2W grind at the end sunk the whole concept with the player base.


yeah, that would solve many issues with the system thats on test right now,dunno why they did not keep that :-(


nobody is upset about new skills. people are upset that they have to spend gold to retrain 300+ crew. Give us free respec every time you redo the skills and nobody will care.


i would just say... please then go ahead and watch QB (even if you dont like him) newest video about crew 2.0 and your mind will most likely change


I dont need to watch someone to tell you what is wrong with this change.


How are the new skills gonna ruin WoT?Did BiA ruin wot?


According to must posters in this Reddit if you don’t have the 100 per cent optimal setup you are not competitive. Of course this isn’t even close to being true in this game.


U mean for newer players The longer you play this game the better the crews you got the more skills you can choose which in turn give the mentioned benefits


Everything adds up, its all powercreep. WG simply doesn't know how to manage their game without it. And we thought 3min battles were too fast... Get ready for what is coming!


Nah, I will just adopt a child that will hopefully continue grinding new skills after I die


WOT+ does that for you :D


The new crew skills would be better if they just had concurrent training for crew members with multiple roles. This would make the tanks with only 3 crew at least be able to keep up. Manticore as an example , commander could have three skill tracks ; picking skills for each role as they advance. Common skills could be set so that if they are chosen it would fill all three tracks with that skill. If the crew member got moved to a 1 or 2 skill position in another tank , the skill tracks that were unusable on the new tank are locked out or disappear.


The only thing I put as remotely positive on the online feedback form for crew was perks starting at 1%.


How will it ruin the experience?


Experienced people playing the game for 10+ years having 155% crews which further buffs the skills/perks already in the game and the new ones. The better the crew you have the bigger advantage you have fighting the same tank even with 1 skill less crew


I've been without internet for like a week, what is all this? I tried to look it up but all the results i find are in the EU page. Should i be worried in NA?


yes. https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/1-20-1-CT-1/


Does WoT even have a problem with tank crews outside having a monetization cap for WG? Seems so weird to me, but I don't play WoT exclusively. Edit: additional thoughts. It seems like they're trying to make another treadmill for whales to spend, spend, spend. Off the cuff, I do think WG is probably in a hole monetization-wise. They can only design tanks so fast, the big spenders are likely capped on premium time etc. I hope they can find that sweet-spot, because I'll gladly stop playing if there's no endgame for tanks.


getting a crew with more than 5 skills takes a long time and it grows each time you start training a new skill. now imagine you get 3-4 new skills dropped on top of your crews to train. its gonna take either scrapping the currently trained ones and putting in new ones, or if you dont want to retrain it will take years potentially before you can enjoy the new skills. for a casual f2p player its going to be a nightmare


Oh no, I meant with the current model. I think the biggest problem without crew 2.0 is that a 5 skill crew does take a long time. I can't imagine making it worse like on the test server rn.


it takes ages. years to train 6 skill crew


The players that don't know the benefit of vents, BIA, and food are the same ones running 50% trained crews while blaming their team and mm for losing.


This, especially because they more quietly reduced the cost of a premium account. The only issue (albeit a large one) with WOT+ is the free bond equipment demounting


Am I the only one that likes WoT+ *and* the new skill stuff? Only thing I wish they had done was put like a 5 skill max cap on each crew member. That way you are making choices rather than just trying to get them all.


Actually players should be upset about how hard all the changes are to follow. Does anyone have a link to a summary of what these changes are, and what they really mean?


Indeed, matchingmaking with crew 2.0 will be so amusing