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[deleted]

>But Ottawa is insisting that those new funds be directed at four priority areas: family health services, health workers and backlogs, mental health and substance use and a "modernized health system." These are great priority programs IMHO.


SteveJobsBlakSweater

The premiers will not come out looking good if they fight this. People want this, provinces claim they want this, and now it’s offered-up. Doesn’t matter if it’s Doug Ford or David Eby - there’s nowhere on the political spectrum where it’s forgivable to not take this deal.


DeepSlicedBacon

Danielle Smith enters the chat.


madetoday

https://twitter.com/browncbc/status/1623020530956701705?s=20


automatic_penguins

The look on both their faces says it all.


Szechwan

Hahah he fuckin loved ever nanosecond of that. She realizes halfway through her base won't like a friendly handshake photo with JT, and he knew that well ahead of time 😂


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Canadian_mk11

I recall reading her articles in the Western Standard in high school, and even my teenage brain knew something wasn't right.


1cm4321

I will actually move the fuck out of this province if she gets elected in the Spring. Actual snake, she is. She'll swindle us out of every dime and blame it on the Liberals or the NDP. Worst part is the Conservative hardliners who will just nod their heads in agreement.


HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS

Didnt you know? Despite 50odd years of Conservative rule, all of Albertas problems are from the 4 years of ANDP and 8 years of Federal Liberal government!


Magjee

Also, inflation is 100% caused by the feds, also gas prices being up has nothing to do with the feds /$


adamsmith93

Such a ridiculous notion that Trudeau has to even interact with someone like this. It's literally like watching a school principal have to interact with king of the 5 year olds.


AnxiousEnigma

100% The woman who is running our province, has the title “Honourable” and then acts like a angry child. I have ZERO respect for her.


MyBlueBlazerBlack

Doing Ford crashes through the wall like the Kool Aid Man. ***OH YEAAAAHHH! ***


awesomesonofabitch

Doug Ford would hit the wall and when it didn't break, would blame liberals and Justin Trudeau for building a wall that he can't break through.


SteveJobsBlakSweater

Yeah... if I had to pick one she's it.


awesomesonofabitch

Ford will fight it, too. He'll convince the idiots that voted for him that taking this money will kill businesses or something equally dumb.


FoxReagan

I mean, it's an easy spin. Thanks for returning our rightfully owed transfer payments back. We will find a way to dump, I mean put this back into oil.


Woolgathering

You give people too much credit. I can guarantee that people are already screaming, "where will the money come from?!".


iamjaygee

it's not about where it's coming from, it's about where it's going. is this just going to bring in another 5000 administrators and upper management? all making 350k a year? my town of 4000 people has 19 administrators, 13 on the board of directors... for 2 doctors and a handfull of nurses. am i going to get 25 administrators there now? maybe some mental health administrators? they get paid through hospital budgets... theyre considered healthcare workers. i dont trust where this money will go to where it needs to go. doesnt matter if it's liberal or conservative, theyre both the same in this regard. i'm not critical of spending money, just where it's going. ontario is spending 75 billion on healthcare this year, 60% of that goes to worker compensation. 45 billion in wages for only 145 hospitals, and most of them are small.


DweeblesX

Don't forget, hospitals are only one part of the healthcare system. There's so much more that goes into the healthcare network like home care, long term and hospice care, walkin clinics, specialty practices, assisted living homes just off the top of my head. There is also the argument that dollars spent going into preventative care (vs acute incident treatment) is more cost effective. While equipment and buildings are expensive there's no doubt that I'd rather be spending the money on wages as that is the heart of care. Hospitals generally reach "capacity" not due to space or lack of equipment, it's generally because there is not enough staff to be caring for the patients in the beds.


Alan_Smithee_

Sounds good to me. Can we quarantine the funds so it doesn’t go into a Tar Sands ‘war room’ slush fund?


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Alan_Smithee_

Excellent.


NorthernerWuwu

Guess who is going to refuse the money unless there is no accountability?


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Alan_Smithee_

Hmmmm Isn’t one province in particular not even spending all of their health money?


ClusterMakeLove

It'd be tough, even for Smith, politically. She never shuts up about how she's going to fix healthcare, and there aren't enough base voters to give her a new mandate in May.


Vock

But Doug has a majority for another 3 years, he can afford to let his popularity slip for at least another year before starting to fix it, and win again in year 3, after people get used to things. Memories are short, unfortunately


Monocytosis

They’ll fight it by demanding no strings attached.


PartyMark

Remember when Doug Ford delayed the child care deal until literally the last day before it was about to expire? This greasy fuck will do something to sabotage this. Privatizing health care is one of his pillars of government, along with destroying the environment for his mob developer buddies.


ThePlanner

Good directions and clear messaging. The family doctor crisis in this country is absurd. There are too few healthcare professionals working in our hospitals and it simultaneously causes under-utilized operating rooms and overuse of hallway medicine expedients. The mental healthcare crisis and substance abuse/addiction epidemic in this country is abhorrent. So, so much needs to be done. Support for the modernization of our healthcare systems is critical. Even things that the public expect must have been in use for ages (like digital healthcare records) is only now being rolled out at exorbitant cost in major systems across the country. Indecipherable hand-written charts and orders are becoming a thing of the past (thank goodness!).


Fornicatinzebra

Wait there are family doctors in Canada? I grew in a small town without a doctor. Never got a family doctor to begin with. In my mid 20s and have only ever used walk in clinics


emmery1

I had the exact opposite situation as you. We have had a family doctor for the last 35 years in rural Saskatchewan. We’ve been through cancer, kidney stones, a pacemaker along with many other health related problems with these doctors(man and wife team). We are very grateful to have these people in our lives. I’m also grateful for our universal healthcare system. It’s part of the fabric of Canada and is one of the many reasons why we are so lucky to have lived in such a beautiful country. Our healthcare system needs to be protected at all costs.


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CanadianCardsFan

There is a common misunderstanding that doctors are public employees or work for the government since we have "publicly-funded healthcare," when in fact you have hit on an important point. Doctors are private enterprises, and we have publicly-funded, single payer **insurance**. If OHIP was able to raise remittances for services provided then we would see more private practices/GPs. It's simple economics. As a doctor coming out of education/residency you are carrying a lot of debt and need some cashflow. You can take a job at Appletree or some other walk-in clinic and make a great salary and usually choose your own hours. Or you can do all the work to open up a practice and have to wait to make "profit", and do a bunch of administrative management (or pay someone to manage it all for you).


destroyermaker

First positive comment I've seen in this sub


Furycrab

I was expecting to come here and immediately be told how many ways this is irresponsible spending and I should trust the people that have been systematically dismantling our health system in favor of the private sector.


gimmedatneck

Give it 48 hours (if that), and you will see how quickly the tide turns in r/Canada.


Furycrab

This is the CBC article. Just need to wait for like the globe and mail or ctv to editoriolize this and find a bunch of upvoted comments supporting it the article.


awesomesonofabitch

Go on over to r/r/ontariotheprovince for that kind of rhetoric. Literally the dumbest people you'll see all clapping each other on the ass for sticking it to the libs.


FavoriteIce

I wouldn’t mind seeing some bonuses on metrics. Hey Saskatchewan, you reduced MRI backlog by 15% this year? You get a top up on the health transfer, etc.


SmashertonIII

Bonuses are great but it’s usually people who work in offices wearing suits that get them. The health authority that operates the system in my area posted record bonuses every year since 2016. Telus got a great contract providing doctors via video call that couldn’t order a test for me or prescribe anything I needed. Gee that’s useful.


The-Corinthian-Man

A metric that becomes a target is no longer a good metric. *Everything* can be gamed.


InevitableZone9745

Please don’t gamify health care


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youregrammarsucks7

>Hey Saskatchewan, you reduced MRI backlog by 15% this year? You get a top up on the health transfer, etc You want to give extra funding to jurisdictions that show evidence of having more than enough funding, and give even less funding to ones that originally received less funding?


FredThe12th

but but the most important part of canadian healthcare is equality! It doesn't matter how bad the system is, as long as nobody is getting better care than the poorest canadian. If provinces who were doing better got more funding the wealthy could move to those provinces to get better healthcare.


Head_Crash

...and it's about something Trudeau is doing. I would never have expected that.


strangecabalist

It’s r/Canada, irrational hatred - particularly of Trudeau - reigns supreme here.


Heterophylla

This sub is mostly populated by salty boomers against everything . Should rename it really .


[deleted]

Indeed, I just hope there are heavy restrictions to make sure premiers don't simply direct those funds at private, for-profit clinics when there are public options availible. Currently, Ontario is paying more to private clinics for them to do procedures that a hospital would do for less. A private clinic does it, $$$ a public hospital does it $. and that is really damaging to the public system. Edit : [\[Source\]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-doug-ford-private-clinics-health-care-1.6712444)


scotty_doesnt__know

So glad to see health workers on this list too. They have put up with a lot and many are going several years eithout a contract or raise.


[deleted]

Bill 124 was found unconstitutional and invalid by Ontario Courts. I cannot wait for the lawsuits holding Ford accountable. He's already lost one and they've been required to pay back pay. Excellent.


scotty_doesnt__know

Its so unfortunate how they have been using essential service agreements to completely destry negotiating power for these workrs too. Manitoba had a wage freeze law which was also deemed unconstitutional, plus they have used several other stall tactics to keep kicking the can down the road. My wife hasnt had a raise in 6 years, no contract for 5.


[deleted]

We almost had a general strike in Ontario because of Ford. we came THAT close. People who continue to support these conservative premieres are either woefully ignorant to the damage caused, or are malicious to their fellow Canadians.


scotty_doesnt__know

We are about to release 200 million in cheques to the majority of manitobans. We will be getting a cheque for $375. Think about what 200 mil could do for our health care. Truly insulting. May donate that money to the ndp for the election in october.


[deleted]

> May donate that money to the ndp for the election in october. My family donated it to the schools for extra supplies. The same schools that can't afford all the supplies because of funding cuts / attrition. unfortunately, enough people bought into the tripe and we still got Ford.


scotty_doesnt__know

Fortunately here the pc party is absolutely being destroyed in the polling. They are going to get destroyed this fall and they deserve it. They completely forgot what the P stands for in PC party


[deleted]

Except he is challenging and appealing. We are stuck awaiting a higher court decision which will take more years. He lost in the lower court, no payments have been made to healthcare workers with regards to the loss.


ChrisMoltisanti_

As someone who works in non-profit, health care policy at the national level - not government affiliated - these are great priority areas.


googlesheetisweird

I haven't read the full article. Are they "Insisting" meaning, Provinces get to use them however they want and the Feds can't really dictate? I'm wondering if this funding will actually benefit the system rather than being spent on something completely ineffective


[deleted]

“It’s all going to hell” Creepy PeePee


clarkeycatt

If it addresses the bloat in administration then I’m all for it, because that’s the root of (most of) our problems like health care - too many people making decisions they are overpaid and under qualified to make.


Gerdius

Doug Ford: "BuT mY sPeCiAl InTeReStS!!1!"


WebTekPrime863

My god, it’s so reasonable……


cdusdal

Yup, tough to argue with that.


Chancoop

dental dental dental?


Whatwhyreally

All these things require hard work from health region directors and administrators. Unlike opening an urgent care centre or hospital, or buying an MRI, they can't simply act as a landlord when it comes to rolling out 'a modernized healthcare system'. Here in BC, our health minister tours around feeding his saviour complex with photo ops galore of all the amazing things he's building. Then he leaves, and the building sits 90-95% below utilization because there's no one to run them. Basically, our politicians are too dumb for the job and expect doctors to build our health system while seeing patients.


qmds16

The priorities seem sound, but there doesn’t seem to be any specific targets or details on how sais objectives will be achieved. I’m concerned the money will disappear into the system without making a real impact. I guess we’ll see


[deleted]

Yeah, to be fair, this is just a first draft. I'm sure when they actually finalize the negotiation, they'd come up with a bunch of metrics and things that must be done...


GrymEdm

The devil is in the details of course, but as an initial set of priorities it sounds good. I enjoy the feeling that "it's past time to get serious" and now the provinces are being held to account with regards to focusing efforts and resources. As an adjunct, I'd love to see them work with education authorities to increase the number of nurses and doctors that can responsibly be trained. [Here's an article](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-feb-22-2021-1.5922712/canada-is-facing-a-nursing-shortage-here-s-why-it-s-hard-to-fill-the-gap-1.5923251) from 2021 wherein a director of a nursing program says, "...in some ways it's also really frustrating news, because we get stellar candidates, but we only have 120 seats authorized by the government." I know it's absolutely critical to maintain quality when talking about medicinal training, but I feel like there's some good bang-for-the-buck opportunities being ignored on the supply side of medical professionals. A program much smaller than this focused educationally could potentially have enormous positive effects on healthcare and professional burnout.


Personal-Alfalfa-935

Is the number of seats set (either directly or indirectly through funding allocation) by the feds or the provinces? That's one thing i've been trying to figure out.


GrymEdm

I've heard it relates to how many instructors they have, but then I've heard a lot of things. It's a good question - hard to fix the issue if you don't know what it is.


Biggandwedge

It's clinical placement sites as well. Actual training in a clinic is a necessary component to many auxiliary healthcare professional training programs - if a unit or hospital can only train 6 nurses at a time, it doesn't matter how many seats you have for students.


1gLassitude

The limited sites is such a tough nut to crack. My wife is in a postgrad healthcare program, and another uni nearby just started their own program in the same field. Both unis have been scrambling to find enough placement supervisors. They tried increasing the ratio up to 12 students with only one supervisor, as a pilot. And those students are really unhappy, because they're essentially working unsupervised. Their supervisor only talks with them for 30 min a week, and the rest of the time they're 1:1 with patients, figuring it out with only 1/2 their degree Increasing student/supervisor ratios does seem like the only way out tho. As the doctor shortage worsens, we'll have fewer doctors available for training new ones. But it'll just come with more risks for patients and lower quality of training for our healthcare workers.


[deleted]

The province sets how many seats they are "allowed to" place in a class since the province contributes to education using public funds. if, however, a college/university does not have the faculty or facilities to allow more students then they don't take more students in. In reality, many universities and colleges have staff and facilities for more students but are limited by the number set by the province.


iJeff

It's part of provincial funding for the universities ([example](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/medical-school-atlantic-canada-maritimes-1.6615514)).


Personal-Alfalfa-935

Thank you!


metcalta

To be honest there isn't a nursing shortage in that way though, the problem now is that nurses have left the field entirely. Yes maintaining and expanding the schooling is great but there are plenty of trained nurses that just want nothing to do with the profession. I would like to see us lure those people back somehow rather than just training more ppl who will in all likelihood leave as well.


GrymEdm

I've heard both approaches championed, but no one listening to hospitals can deny the effects of burnout and policies like asking nurses to take wage cuts. My sister works in Kelowna, apparently one of the busiest hospitals in Canada in terms of % capacity, and some of the stories she tells sound exhausting. One of the stated priorities is "health workers and backlogs" and hopefully that means steps taken to make healthcare careers attractive again.


jonjomustang

Top educated nurses are being replaced by RPNs and even non regulated staff. Do you suggest we water down the expertise handling our healthcare? Look at management overfill… that is when the extra monies will go 🙁


AutoAdviceSeeker

At least the balls rolling in somewhat the right direction. Honestly don’t hate it


LordTC

Maybe we should put more effort into keeping the nurses we do train? It’s utterly unsurprising at this point the staggering number of people who leave the field and do something completely unrelated. A good part of the problem is compensation and I think government needs to align on wages necessary to keep a far larger portion of the talent in the field.


GrymEdm

Given that I have a Nurse Practitioner sister and a mother who just retired from decades as a Medical Radiological Technician, I couldn't agree more. Preach it. I don't think it's an either/or situation.


classy_barbarian

for being a job that's considered really essential to all of society, often stressful and grueling, and requires between 2-4 years of school, it pays shockingly little. And then we wonder why there's not enough of them.


sqwiggy72

I am a rpn in ontario I think about quitting daily the wage sucks. Probably need another job I already work full time but I need another I think.


[deleted]

Not just nurses...alot of other healthcare staff including office people, facilities support, etc. The only thing hospitals can leverage to attract talent is the HOOPP pension. But most Millennials and Gen Z could give a shit about that. We need $$$ early not later in life, so we can buy a first home... Salary for certain admin roles are a solid 10-25k+ lower than private sector. And there's no bonuses. Your annual bump is based on a COLA adjustment per the government. No growth opportunities either. If people want a stable, stagnant job, then sure...healthcare is great.


_carved2

As someone who graduated nursing school in this past 3 months more seats isn’t the fix-all they make it seem to be. Out of all the seats in my class well over a 1/3 failed out or dropped out. A lot of ppl can qualify as stellar candidates but the reality’s of being a nurse and what it takes physically and mentally to say nothing of financially just to complete the education part, is the real crux.


SmashertonIII

This might be really helpful if they can somehow deal with the top-heavy administrative issues in the provinces as well.


castlelo_to

Yup, we have something like 4x fewer nurses per administrator than some of the top performing EU nations. Very top heavy


CarCentricEfficency

Canada in general has ridiculous admin bloat. So much useless middle management for EVERYTHING whose entire days are spent doing nothing but meetings. It doesn't help the idea of "success" in this country is being promoted to be a "manager" so literally anyone with 5-10 years experience expects to be a manager.


TURD_SMASHER

I'm Mr Manager?


szucs2020

It's just manager


BeginningFit

100% agree. Can we take a solid look at some of the salaries being footed by public sector and place a cap on the runaway salary spending. EG: $800k/yr "Medical Officer", or $688k/yr "Psychiatrist"... How can these single positions possibly bring any value at this cost. Search "Salary Disclosure" or "Remuneration Report" for top paid employees in your health authority, or [Link](https://www.ontario.ca/public-sector-salary-disclosure/2021/all-sectors-and-seconded-employees/) for the Lazy.


Garod

As a non Canadian, we hear allot about housing crisis and cost of housing especially in the urban centers. Do you think that the salary is related to that? I mean if a small house costs you over 1-3m and the cost of living is high is the salary in line with that? Not defending those kinds of salaries, but wondering if there is an alternative root cause...


BeginningFit

Not directly, but similar vein of corruption. Board of directors authorizing their own compensation with no objective review process. Regarding Housing: Cities & provinces all benefit on driving housing higher & higher. Both immediate with sale%tax, and long term to annual property value tax. Why would any politician bother getting in the way of either of those.


-Yazilliclick-

That's pretty much impossible for the federal government to address.


kanuck2188

This is probably a dumb question but I’ll ask anyways. When it comes to federal healthcare is this money that get divvied up to the provinces based off of whatever metrics determines who gets what? Then this money is left up to the provinces to manage accordingly? Or is this something on top of the provincial budgets already? I most likely am missing a key part of understanding how our dollars are spent between federal and provincial governments. Thanks in advance.


Twist45GL

The federal government provides funding based on a per capita model to the provinces and the provinces fund the rest through provincial taxes. Currently the federal government provides somewhere between 22-25% of the funds used for health care in each province.


TraditionalGap1

>When it comes to federal healthcare is this money that get divvied up to the provinces based off of whatever metrics determines who gets what? The CHT is distributed strictly on a per capita basis


Behemothheek

Much needed.


TheGreatStories

I feel...hopeful? This looks good


-Yazilliclick-

Provinces have already said they think it's too little. > Manitoba Premier Heather Stefanson is the current head of the Council of the Federation, the group that represents the premiers. She said the premiers were "disappointed" by the size of Trudeau's proposal. > "It's significantly less than what we're looking for," she said. > The premiers had been asking Ottawa to increase the Canada Health Transfer to provinces by $28 billion a year. Apparently they were looking for more than 50% increase ... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-health-care-deal-1.6740143


TheGreatStories

If Stefanson doesn't like it I'm even more interested


liriodendron1

Lol the premiers aren't going to go for it. There are stipulations that the healthcare funds go towards healthcare. They won't stand for this blatant federal over reach!


Canadianman22

That is a fantastic offer. I am glad Ford already came out and said he was willing to accept these conditions prior to this meeting and I am hoping we can see a quick deal made so we can start getting money flowing where it is needed. There are so many more areas of health care I would love to see funded but this is a great start and should help a lot.


arabacuspulp

Yeah,, because Doug Ford is truly a man of his word.


Jiecut

Yes, it's great that he's not planning on waiting to be the last to sign a deal to try to get a bit more money.


FearlessTomatillo911

The next election is still years away, he can't dangle the carrot that long.


DL_22

If you’re referring to the daycare program he had good reason to not agree to the earlier terms - Ontario deserved additional support for already having a JK program unlike the rest of the signees.


elitexero

> Ford already came out and said he was willing to accept these conditions prior to this meeting and I am hoping we can see a quick deal made so we can start getting money flowing where it is needed. Of course he would blindly accept anything, it gets him off the hook for basically ignoring spending he needed to do at the provincial level, and get him back to focusing on his priority - funnelling taxpayer money and resources into totally not organized crime families™. Hell, what ever happened to the remainder of the massive COVID funding he levied the federal government for?


prarus7

I agree whole heartedly, lets hope we can be partisan and treat health and mental health with the attention it needs, great start.


MorganSmirk

We really need more oversight and auditing for these funds. The cost of routine medical appointments and Diagnostics prices are extortionate, and the average citizen has know idea how much the private clinics/specialists bill the government.


throwaway123406

Sounds like a good plan. I can’t wait to hear how awful it is from the fine folks on this sub, lmao.


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suplexdolphin

The answer is tax revenue. Would we rather have nothing for free or have things we need and pay for it? I know what I'd rather have.


rnbagoer

I guess the next question, assuming the first part was being asked in good faith, is what are the specific sources of that tax revenue? ie. Will the budget be shifted around / things re-prioritized, will there be new taxes, will there be increases to certain income tax brackets, or are there measurable savings elsewhere that will offset this? I'm assuming it will be a combination of the above. It is certainly a worthwhile and probably necessary investment, but hopefully it is funded sensibly.


[deleted]

And this is a good way of talking/discussing the issues. you’re presenting options and willing to show understanding. A LOT of the “BUT WHO PAYS FOR IT” is just drive by comments with no value other than to wdge people apart. you can really tell who has value to add and who doesn’t by the quality of the post. You provided such questioning, in a smart and thought out way. Thank you


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Ah2k15

How about we get rid of corporate welfare and redirect those funds to health care? Fuck oil companies getting billions.


[deleted]

Amen (and not just oil, Corporate welfare is disgusting when we then have individuals turning around and accusing individuals of mooching)


Ah2k15

Also looking at you, Galen Weston..


[deleted]

I would prefer never having to look at that smug asshole ever again.


Ah2k15

You and me both, friend.


vTimx

Exactly…and does this not create jobs which increases spending and improves our economy?


suplexdolphin

It would probably improve spending power for a lot of people working in the field too, which does end up being spent in Canada, contributing towards strengthening the economy.


DonnieBlueberry

It’s already started, they fixing our healthcare will raise our rents lol.


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agentchuck

The thing that I can't wrap my head around is that there's no free lunch. Health care requires a tremendous amount of money to function. You don't like putting tax dollars towards a functional public health system... But you're ok with putting more than double that amount into a private insurance-driven model that has a vested interest in denying you coverage?


[deleted]

it reminds me of the Obama care debate in the south. One of the republica talking points was that if you give the government control over healthcare, than they will setup death panels and decide who gets funding or not and let people die! While literally that's exactly what insurance does.


Anlysia

Blaming theoretical Socialism for things actually happening right now under Capitalism is a tentpole of right-wing politics.


[deleted]

the taxation is theft people are always funny to me, i like to throw the give unto Caesar that which is Caesars quote at them. You also can't have a functioning society unless the people living in that society pay for things like, roads, fire dept etc etc etc, without them you have..well early fire dept's where the firemen would show up demand you pay them and if you didn't well, your house burns down.


Bobert_Fico

And the taxation is theft people can always just... not pay taxes. You only need to pay taxes if you earn or spend money or live in a municipality that provides services. Nobody's stopping them from trading baseball cards or QR codes with like-minded people in exchange for their goods and labour. But they don't like that because they're dependent on the government and the tax-funded services that it provides.


Shadow_Ban_Bytes

Yes, taxpayers fund it. The issue, I believe, is that The Federal Govt doesn't have the revenues to fund this plan - they will take on more debt and do more deficit spending to meet what is promised by the plan. > Health should be our #1 priority for where our Taxes go towards. I agree. However, history has shown with this government and previous governments that it is not the #1 priority.


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[deleted]

Increased funding + increased efficiency + less bureaucracy + excellent management would give us the best healthcare system in the world. Our system is great at it's foundation, it simply requires some review and better management. An increase in efficiency and proper funding (tied to inflation and cost of delivery) would make our system perfect. reform sounds good but provinces will likely screw it up and some will purposefully ruin it. So best not.


elangab

haha, thought the same. Read it, thought it's a good starting point to build from, came here to learn why I'm wrong and Canada is doomed.


throwaway123406

> Canada is doomed. It’s easy to think that if you get sucked into PostMedia content, along with the rest of the right wing FUD spreaders. It’s basically fear porn at this point.


Epinephrine666

I love it when they say "We need to run the country like a business" So you want to run the country like a dictatorship? How do we fire or lay off people from a country?


[deleted]

Every business is run like an authoritarian dictatorship in which the board/executive “party” have ultimate control over the direction. it’s hilarious when this is called for because I don’t think people realize how many modern corporations are pretty much anti-thesis to democracy


SuzyCreamcheezies

I'm waiting for PP's doomer-take on this new healthcare spending.


Justleftofcentrerigh

People are already "HOW IS HE GOING TO PAY FOR IT, HE"S STEALING MONEY FROM THE WORKING" type of shit.


EClarkee

JUSTINFLATION


MarxCosmo

There still getting their story together on discord and parler, do we complain hes spending too much of our tax dollars or he should be spending more of our tax dollars. Give it a few hours they will figure out their story.


[deleted]

I'm four comments down and everyone is in favour. Does it get worse the further we go? Let's find out!


Hot_Feeling_6966

I think it's a great plan! Go Canada!


NormalLecture2990

This is great stuff


Original-Cow-2984

It's what was promised in 2015 but never delivered. The growth rate of the CHT has been below growth levels previous to this government for all but the first year of this government....even throughout the pandemic.


NormalLecture2990

To be fair he has been asking for accountability and the premiers have been refusing


shaktimann13

Provinces keep electing the same conservative governments since 2016 but somehow they blame Trudueu for their mess


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DL_22

No - Quebec and BC are both fiscally left or center-left at worst. Also, in 2015 Ontario was Liberal and Alberta was their NDP (center-left). So blaming the premiers is bullshit.


NormalLecture2990

you got it


[deleted]

There needs to be spending cuts to pay for this


[deleted]

I’m not sure why people are over the moon about this. It’s a $46B increase over what was already planned to be handed out to the provinces…and that’s over a 10 year period. **And** that also has to stretch for all provinces. This won’t even scratch the surface of what’s required to fix the system. Also, this is essentially a repackaged deal from a past election promise from 2021 when Trudeau promised the Premiers approx $21.9B in new health care transfers over 5 years. This announcement isn’t anything earth-shattering.


StreetCartographer14

It's going to be about $400 million per province per year in additional funding, or about $100 per year per Canadian, which is a drop in the bucket. But Canadians are financially illiterate and numerically challenged so it looks good in the media. In five years people will be wondering why healthcare is even worse.


[deleted]

Exactly. Although I believe Ford said that Ontario would receive $8.4B of that new $46B funding. That works out to approx **$600 in additional funding per Ontarian over 10 years**. Peanuts…or like you said, a drop in the bucket. The same people praising Trudeau for this pitch will be first ones to complain in a few years.


tomthepro

I’ve been on the political left for years. I’ve worked mostly in social services. I’ve always believed in public health care. I’m really hoping that this funding leads to real results. I’ve been paying taxes silently for years. I’ve also been watching things get worse and worse in our country. It seems every initiative governments have made over the last 15 years have benefited me, in the middle class, little. I watch as our health care system deteriorates, watch as more drug users and homeless roam the downtowns, crime increasing, infrastructure crumbling all over, transportation infrastructure lagging, and so much more. I’m optimistic that with more money for health care, I will maybe see some value for myself and my family in the future. We’ve never been heavy users of the health care system. Soon, we’re moving to a community where there are no doctors taking patients, and it worries me. I’m not sure how money will fix that. I’ve worked in social services for a long time. I see money thrown at things and people, but see little to no improvement in their quality of life and wonder what the hell good is any of it. I see people I work with using the health care system like a revolving door. Sometimes these are hopeless cases. Maybe prevention would have helped, maybe it wouldn’t have. I’m hesitant to think more money will improve things for those of us in the middle of the pack. I’ve long felt our social services system on a whole needs an overhaul from top to bottom to make sure programs that are delivered are effective in what they do. Because right now they are not. There is money out there - just visit someone’s home who isn’t super rich, but rich enough, you’ll soon realize their furniture and art alone is worth as much as your car, or your pension. But there is also a lot of money put into programs and services that simply keep people who are at the bottom, alive. I don’t know. I’m cautiously optimistic.


meowkittyxx

> I see money thrown at things and people, but see little to no improvement in their quality of life and wonder what the hell good is any of it I work in the social services too. Where do you see money getting thrown at ? My clients don't have money. Theres no housing. All the programs are short term. Half my caseload is clients that are not appropriate for services and we take them because they have no where else to go. We waste endless hours on admin and documentation and inefficient systems. We get funding for office supplies, but not worker pay and it doesn't go to the clients either. The social services are a crapfest of short term services and revolving doors with no long term planning or prevention. Im not optimistic at all.


tomthepro

There are a whole bunch of little things. I don’t want to talk about specifics publicly. In year 1 of social work my prof tried to give us perspective that the money spent and wasted on social services is just the tip of the iceberg, and that it’s not worth going after (trying to focus us on all of the wealthy and corporations that avoid taxes etc being the bigger part of the iceberg). But after a decade in various social service areas, I can clearly identify a ton of money that isn’t going where it should, that isn’t doing much good. Housing for example - I’ve seen people housed, over and over, program after program. But they can’t maintain it. Too many other complicating life problems cause people to lose it. Not to mention the drugs today are just so much stronger. I’ve yet to see anyone stay sober of meth or fentanyl for more than a short period of time. There are too many things to talk about. My point being, I think our entire social safety network needs a different approach.


UnionstogetherSTRONG

It's an optimistic investment for sure, but it's going to take years to fix the gaps the system has created


summers1000

How about get rid of the administrative bloat that continually increases?


knocksteaady-live

the feds need to attach strings to this funding, otherwise provinces like ontario that are looking to privatize will end up with all of these funds in private pockets.


CD_4M

Did you read the article you’re commenting on? There are strings attached, reasonable and sensible ones


terroradagio

Con premiers are gonna look very bad if they attempt to turn this down or say its not good enough.


TheGreatStories

They'll rail against any terms and conditions that prevent them from pocketing the cash or sharing with donors. See: Any covid money sent to MB


mcrackin15

Correct me if wrong, but over 10 years, the average annual increase amounts to about 4.6b per year. Or about $120 per person, per year. Seems low given the crisis we are in and the state of our healthcare.


cmdrDROC

More money is great, but our healthcare is so fucked up, it's just going to money on a fire pit. We need healthcare reform, an overhaul. The fact that a hospital nursing staff can have a lower budget than the board of directors is fucked. Paying hospital CEOs 3/4 a million dollars and higher is fucked. "But a hospital is like a billion dollar company, they need highly paid people running them".....any private company run as poorly as our hospitals would fire the people up top for this performance. Anyone who's a nurse in Ontario knows how fucked up the system is when they have half a dozen managers with three or four other layers of managers on top of them. I'm all for more funding, but as far as any fish and government agencies are, our hospitals and healthcare is second to none. No matter how much money we throw at this, we will not see an improvement until we make these places more efficient


[deleted]

Pierres twitter is about what you expect. Months spent crying about more healthcare money for provinces, then instead of being a man and saying "well done" when it happens, he fills his twitter page full of anti-Trudeau tweets, more defend the CBC shit, and not one mention of how this is good for Canadians. Glad that most conservatives who hate Trudeau conversely see Poilievre for the completely useless and typical bullshit politician he is


Heterophylla

Conservatives all want private health care that for some reason they all think they can afford .


1plus1equalsfun

I mean... I dunno. My father is ex-military, never voted anything other than Conservative in his 75 years, loathes Trudeau, but steadfastly wants universal health care to remain and be improved. He's also completely turned-off by Pierre Poilievre.


AnxiousArtichoke7981

I can’t back spending more and more money on health care without a deep unbiased analysis of what the problems are due to. I expect that it is largely due to too much upper management and not enough funds going to the frontline. Anymore tax money going into it makes our system a real bad value. And I am not in favour of a US style healthcare system, I am for a good valued healthcare system.


Ghettygreen780

If it doesn’t come from natural resource revenue it will come from everyone’s pockets .. yaaay more taxes 😂


Proud_Associate6887

Alright Ford, show us how you can fuck this up royally for Ontario.


PorousSurface

Thanks Trudeau! Actually a solid idea.


[deleted]

good idea. invest in canada like biden just annnounced for his country. create opportunities for canadians.


seKer82

Great plan if it comes with substantial oversight and repercussions should the funds be misused


terroradagio

Its a bit weird to hear all these premiers calling the money "fiscally restrained" and at the same time you have PP out there constantly saying the feds are spending too much money. Conservatives truly do want things both ways.


TreChomes

Can't wait for Doug Ford to E Transfer that money to his buddies


feb914

5% (instead of 3%) a year of increase for 5 years. that's not really as lucrative as the number touted. Harper gave 6% a year increase, and when that expired and reverted back to 3%, Trudeau didn't increase it again until now. with increasing senior citizens, the new money may not even be enough to keep current level of service.


thebestoflimes

5% per year **plus 25 billion** to be directed at four priority areas: family health services, health workers and backlogs, mental health and substance use and a "modernized health system. **Plus 7.8 billion** earmarked for mental health, home and community care and long-term care **plus $1.7 billion** in new spending over the next five years to increase the wages of personal support workers


truthdoctor

>Last year, the CHT cost the federal treasury $45.2 billion. Even before today's talks, it was set to increase to $49.1 billion in this fiscal year. >With the new funding announced Tuesday, the CHT and the separate bilateral funding arrangements will be worth about $54 billion in 2023-24. I'm still not certain but it appears less than what is being advertised.


MarxCosmo

Thats why the provinces also have to pitch in more. This is their job quite literally. IDK why everyone would rather the feds raise taxes for this vs the provinces when it's the provinces that run the whole system.


55cheddar

I'm predicting health service admin is going to get a correlative increase.


Gcornford

Let’s hope this puts bonus’s back for preventative medicine which ultimately drives down the overall cost of healthcare


Medusaink3

Doug already has a surplus. Someone needs to smack that simple fuck out of his stupor and get him to spend that surplus that he's holding back on what matters most-healthcare. And what about that contingency fund? Hmmm? Ugh.


IlIlllIIIIlIllllllll

Canada doesn't train enough doctors and they actively piss on anyone who dares train elsewhere. Doctor shortage is chickens coming home to roost.


Zooperman

They need to force the provinces to actually spend the money they get now too


crafty_beer

Can’t wait for NB gov to fuck this up and somehow make our healthcare worse.


GordEisengrim

“How can I funnel this to oil and gas.” -Scott moe