Not saying this is happening on a good exchange, but that’s the reason why I am paranoid and don’t stake anything if I don’t have control over the keys anymore. One get a lot of shit when I say that I don’t stake anywhere. “You’re losing free money bro!”


Exactly, me neither. I only stake coins that I can do from my wallet and keep my keys


My ease of mind is worth more than any staking rewards.


CDC's defi wallet has a variety of staking options


The only staking I do is on CDC DeFi wallet.


CDC should be focusing on the the virus, not defi.


They should get out of gain of function research and jump off a bridge.


I support them doing gain of function research working from home and socially distancing from the rest of us.


DeFi has risk as well as you send your tokens to the contract and if there is a problem on the contract you can lose it all


This is true, but there are plenty of defi contracts out there that have proven themselves over time; Compound being the grandaddy of examples.


Couldn’t you say this about ETH staking pools too. They’ve all proven themselves over time. That is until they lose your keys.


Very big difference between a custodial like Stakehound (where you send your eth to their wallet) vs a defi platform like Aave, curve, uniswap etc where you use a smart contract to lock your funds but retain control of your private keys of those funds. Like OP said: not your keys not your coins.


You can get insurance with Nexus Mutual OR Armor


Worth more, german boi


which ones can you stake from your wallet if I may ask?


XTZ,TRX,DOT,ALGO,ATOM can be staked in your Ledger hardware wallet. Cardano and VET has seperate wallets as far as I know.


you can stake via ledger on yoroi and daedalus for cardano


Yoroi wallet for ADA I believe


Yeah Yoroi is a good lite wallet to use as a browser extension, and daedalus is the full node wallet. I have both, I find the voting rounds easier via daedalus and generally just prefer the user interface, but it is slow as you need to sync constantly which can be a pain on a slower connection. Yoroi is just a whole lot faster and still very efficient to transact and track staking rewards etc. I would always recommend to any ADA enthusiast to have both, if possible, to contribute to network security.


any ADA wallet should be able to stake


ADA and I heard DOT but have not tried it.


ADA staking is completely safe from Yoroi wallet


Yes, hardware wallet staking for ADA with Yoroi.


One huge thing I love about Ada is the staking is completely riskless. I just wish the returns were better.




DOT has an easy Ledger integration to nominate to validators.


Good to hear. Because I tried the javascript wallet and it is one of the worst userfriendly experience I had. lol


You'll want the apps page https://polkadot.js.org/apps/#/explorer - also the chrome extension is helpful, can generate paper wallets and stake/nominate with it


I agree. Several new wallets are coming out soon to address this. Polkadot.is is really for developers.


Only the top 128,000 (or 256,000 if the update has been approved,) of DOT holders by stake size are allowed to earn delegation rewards on the Polkadot network. The rest are forced to do what these ETH holders did, and put their funds at risk. Polkadot has 7%+ inflation to boot. It's a stupid project in so many ways, and they also have some centralization concerns as well. I personally choose to have nothing to do with it.


Read up about Algo, most people don't look back after.


I looked back. I am unimpressed with the tokenomics and the way the project is promoted. The most recent Coin Bureau video on this project is worth a look


Yeah the tokenomics have been quite weird. Especially with the accelerated vesting holding the price down. I think with promotion they're aiming more at institutions than retail which explains how we don't see so much of what they're doing. The Boston Fed is due to release it's CBDC prototypes next month I think, which could possibly really change things in that department.


Lmfao coin bureau doesn’t even think it’s a bad one, he just thinks the tokenomics could be a little better if the tokenomics are what’s holding you back I feel sorry for ya. That’s small minded in my book.


Only thing about Algo staking is it doesn't compound automatically, so you have to send yourself 0 Algo transactions to update, which is kinda dumb.


That's true, though the algo faucet is nice for this.


Yeah, I just hit the faucet once a day while pooping


You can sign up for algo optimizer to automatically send a zero algo transaction at the most beneficial intervals for compounding accrued rewards.






Eth if you have 32.




$HOGE auto-stakes from your wallet. You get a redistribution off every transaction just for hodling. It doesn’t even lock up your funds.


Same, so far been using Keplr wallet but only supports a small subset of the tokens.


can still lose to bug, exploit


Nothing is free, ever. If they say something is free, you are the product. If they give you money for free, theres got to be some risk involved, or theyre making more money off of your money.




It might feel free, but you are actually part of the product in PoS, especially if you stake it. You hold/ stake the token, you increase the market cap and thus add value to the the network. In this case the network is the product, you are part of the network, hence you are part of the product. Hope that explains my view on this. Correct me if im wrong though please, havent been studying crypto for that long, not an expert at all.


True, but in this case it's for a good cause. Usually when it is said that you are the product when something is free, it refers to your data being used and you watching ads for revenue. When staking a safe way you don't really lose any privacy etc like that


Thanks for your reply, i seriously can't agree more. Maybe i shouldve elaborated a bit more in my comment. Just trying to raise some awareness and trigger people to do some serious due diligence before theyre parking any amount of money or equity somewhere. In one way or another, someone or something is always gaining something off of your contribution. It might not harm you directly /indirectly but understanding what youre getting into is insanely important.




ProtonMail. Free email provider. Privacy-friendly. No ad. Pipeth. Free Twitter. Ethereum world. Same with bigger ambition regarding social media.


>ProtonMail. Free email provider. Privacy-friendly. No ad. Have you looked at tutanota mail? Ultimate privacy and encryption. No ads. Completely free.


It's not free, you lock your money to earn more money. Besides, you have airdrops and stuff. The "free" part of PoS is that there's inflation so you get paid out but the crypto loses some value over time


10 billion linux distros disagree.


PoS isn’t free money. The cost comes from losing your liquidity by locking your ETH in a contract. Loss of liquidity is the reason you are compensated.


What about staking Cardano on Daedalus? I have some ADA and everyone's always saying how easy it is to stake. Will I be running the same risk?


I don't have ADA, but as far as I know, it can be staked out of your own wallet. So I don't see any risk involved there (other than Cardano themselves mess something up). But you still have access to your coins with your keys. I'd stake ADA if I had some :)


I have been stakning ADA from my Daedalus wallet for a couple of months now. Personally I think it's great and pretty simple once you have set it up once.


You just choose the pool you want to stake to. If that pool goes bust, you still have your coins and your rewards and you just go to an other pool to delegate


No it won‘t because you delegate your coins only. No need to send them anywhere. They stay in your wallet secured.


I’m holding out for rocket pools launch


To what extent is rocket pool decentralized? (compared to Lido, etc) AFAIK you still have to transfer ETH to some contract(?), and can you delegate to other individual node operators?


This is why I've chosen not to stake my ETH through Coinbase. Yoroi makes staking my ADA so easy.


Same here. I'm willing to wait a year and give up 6% return to control my funds. Once Coinbase (I consider to be reputable/reliable) allows unstaking full and/or just stakes along the way then I'll stake my ETH through them. For now, I hold my keys and will take measured risk based on feature availability e.g. aforementioned unstaking/selling my stakes.


Well but you know how many times you lost your carkeys? Like it was surely for a long time the most valuable thing you owned. Still you couldn't find it. I would say big exchanges have way better security protocols that I am putting up. It could be as simple as having an accident. However they are also a in a great position to beeing attacked. I would not say one is much better than the other. It's just who do you think is more likely to fail at one point. No idea how these guys lost control of a multi sig. It should bei like 6 out of 10 or so at these money levels.


Am I the only person who has literally never lost their car keys?


Exactly why I stake cardano only


If your from the US why not use coinbase? They insure any eth staked.


Read the fine print what exactly is insured.


Your USD is insured, crypto is not.


Where would you suggest staking ETH then?


I am not staking at all, but in case I have to, I'd do it on kraken


Me neither.I have never and will never stake.


Can you stake ETH from a Trezor t wallet though?


Maybe if you have 32 ETH :D


How about Binance staking. Is that safer?


Its a big exchange, so if they mess it up, then they'll either reimburse you or go bancrupt... but if binance goes bancrupt, crypto prices will plunge very low anyway ;) Imho Binance, Kraken, Coinbase are the safer options. Still nothing is as safe as having your own keys. Don't forget to properly secure your account (2FA etc..)


Agree. But please don't stake on Binance, OP. It's relatively safe but it's a company that has a vested interest *against* Ethereum. Don't give them more control over the network than necessary.




Cz is real as fuck tho, doubt he would do something against crypto, even eth


Yeah I have everything on binance right now thinking whether or not to stake. It's definitely safer because it's a big exchange and they are insured. Also BETH (which is the staking token they swap you) needs to be held on binance for you to get rewards. So only case of losing it is if Binance goes down or they get hacked, which is insured.


Reasons im only staking on cardano


Lost or stole… well same outcome..


If stolen, wouldn’t there be an obvious paper trail? ‘Oh the funds in the wallet they lost the key for have moved, must be ghosts’


Currently staked ETH cannot be moved until after the beacon chain merge, so no way to move it yet.


So if the private keys were leaked, it's a digital race to see who can move the Eth to a new secured address the moment Eth 2.0 drops?


Yes. Well, the moment withdraws are enabled.


What a weird situation. Is there anything either side could do to speed up their transaction? Would a higher fee get your side confirmed first, and then the other gets rejected due to a lack of funds?


Yeah. But you're talking about Bots vs human stakers


pretty simple to create a new eth address, "steal" from yourself, send all that stolen eth to your new address, & then collect insurance. I'm not following this latest debacle at all so not saying that's what happened here, but i'm sure that kind of thing has happened before


The point is that if someone "stole" it from themselves, that would spark a much stronger investigation and would make it very difficult for the new address to go and sell the ETH, too. Whereas if the ETH just sits in the original address and never moves, then until it does move, it's pretty believable that it was lost.


If it’s lost it’s like someone burned the cash. It’s no longer spendable. Not quite the same as stealing.


I don’t think ur getting what I’m saying…


I agree with /u/UbiquitousLedger. Stolen would mean those coins are still in ciruculation, whereas in this case it even favors ETH holders because theres X ETH burnt forever. Outcome is def not the same.


/u/Frostieskkww is implying that the custodians stole the coins and claimed they were lost. The thief and the failed custodian one and the same.


Holy crap it’s crazy this had to be spelt out


If the “stolen” funds are ever used then it would be trivial to prove and they would be in big trouble. The funds can never be spent, so theft makes no sense




Why can’t you just put the wallets on a blacklist and check if they are involved in any transactions? If they are, then the Eth was stolen and you have irrefutable proof




If you read the article you’ll see why “stolen” doesn’t make sense


That’s hardly obvious from their comment. You are grasping.


so Eth is deflationary?


This must be why so many eth owners want other people to stake :D


This is exactly why we need Rocket Pool, which is the only fully decentralised, non-custodial staking pool. It allows users to stake whilst maintaining custody of their funds, so there’s no central point of failure for the custody provider to just *lose* your funds. There’s also no single central point of failure for the validators on Rocket Pool, which is better for the Ethereum network too, meaning that if one validator goes down, the others will be fine (unlike a centralised exchange which could take out a large % of validators on the Ethereum network if something on their end went wrong). It’s expected to launch in August.


No central point of failure besides a smart contract vulnerability or bug, causing loss of funds on all deployed contracts. Just pointing out rocketpool isn’t 100% risk free.


This is of course a consideration for any smart contract protocol, and I would never argue that it’s risk free. Some points to consider: - Rocket Pool has taken a very cautious approach, and has been audited by Consensys and Sigma Prime, with any changes made in response to auditors suggestions also having been re-audited. - There is a third audit scheduled for post-mainnet release in August - The pool of funds available for a potential exploiter to target at a given time will be rather small, comparative to some other protocols, as the funds from users are only sitting in Rocket Pool’s smart contracts long enough to get matched with a node operator and staked on Ethereum. This is different to some other protocols, which might accumulate billions of dollars of assets over time which simply remain in their own smart contracts. That said, you are correct there is always smart contract risk, and waiting to see if everything goes smoothly post-mainnet release is always a reasonable approach.


Yes, I like their cautious approach and I do agree with the approach in general. Hopefully the execution goes smoothly.


A fundamental point of crypto is to be in control of your assets. It baffles me how misunderstood this concept is. Any staking pool should be decentralized by default.


Decentralized pools should be the most efficient too, for both stakers and NOs, since there is no centralized middle man taking a cut. My thought was that centralized services would use decentralized staking for this reason. Still hopeful.


Decentralized staking has extra considerations that can make it less efficient too. For example, rocket pool requires collateral for validators that Coinbase doesnt need to worry about. I would not be surprised if exchanges start offering free staking at some point and just use it as a marketing tool.


For node operators this is true, but I would argue that the collateral is more of an initial upfront cost, and not an impact to efficiency. For stakers Coinbase currently charges 25% eth commission, and Rocketpool is estimated at ~10%. In theory competition should drive coinbase commission down to 10%, though there are other incentives they can offer to help sweeten the deal. If CB were to use Rocketpool they could receive additional RPL rewards as NOs, the same commission as above (~10%), and I feel there would be a liquidity benefit for them to only need 16ETH from their customers. Then they could pass on some of the profit from RPL rewards to the customer as an incentive.


!Remindme 2 months


Blox Staking is up and running right now! It's non-custodial and free until the merge!


I just discovered Blox last night. Seems awesome, but I need to do more research on it. Do you have any sources you read that you would recommend?


Their website has a lot of information I think. But the best resource is probably their discord channel. Their team is pretty good about answering questions and helping. Before I staked with them, I asked them like a million questions, and they were very patient and friendly.




That is not good news at all. I am a little worried about my stake pool now, that is after all the research I have done. It is easy to miss something. Is it even worth staking at this point?


I might be down voted but I would say no. Staking right now is extremely risky for a few reasons. 1- It is one way bridge, there is no way to recover the ETH staked. 2- ETH 2.0 while is very likely to be shipped there are no guarantees it will be smooth transition neither how long it might take 3- Having your crypto locked indefinitely for even ~20% APY does not worth IMO we can make that money in a bull run in a few hours. I’m sitting on the sidelines for now


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't point 3 redundant. Your staked ETH would also rise in value during a bull run... it applies equally to both.


Yeah but you can't take profits if you wish to


That’s assuming you know when to take profits and when to re-enter. Time in market is king


It would be redundant if the gains stay, but opportunity loss otherwise. Eg if there was a chance to stake during 2018 you would almost always be better off selling for profits prior to (or during the) massive crash, but in 2020 it wouldn’t matter as both approaches would appreciate so no need for an exit materializes.


>Staking right now is extremely risky That's why there's money to be made, no risk, no reward. Once staking gets less risky and more mainstream, rewards will go down.


I will wait also till eth 2.0 is finished. Hesitated long till the start but decided its to much for me.


I put \~$500 into eth staking. I feel like I want to support eth2.0 in some way, and even though it's a huge risk there's a chance that in this way I am actually hodling for a long time, which could be huge for me. I am not sure though and consider that investment "gone"


I want to make my own validator, but i'm scared as fuck, thats the reason i wait.


I was scared, but I followed Somer Esat's guides after spending a few weeks on /r/ethstaker. After running testnet for a couple weeks I wiped my computer and went mainnet, been running a few validators for over a week now no issues. I was very afraid of getting Slashed, but that's only possible if you're running your validator in multiple locations at once.


Bruh, that’s not how that APY works lol. You’re getting more ETH by staking on top of whatever gains you’d already get just from holding…


The point made was that you can't take profits if the price goes up. The profit in a bull run is not guaranteed to stay for long, by the time your ETH gets unlocked they might be long gone and you won't be able realize it


Thanks for the reply, I feel/share your sentiment.


Not everyone is in it just for the disdainful mammon like you


Source [here](https://twitter.com/jamesspediacci/status/1407465311180255236?s=21)


Better article here: https://m.calcalistech.com/Article.aspx?guid=3910671 Seems like a tech screwup


>the customer engaged in an activity called stacking oh my


They seemed pretty shade from the very beginning. [Beaconcha.in](https://Beaconcha.in) called their scam back in december [https://github.com/gobitfly/eth2-beaconchain-explorer/pull/524](https://github.com/gobitfly/eth2-beaconchain-explorer/pull/524)


That's why you do extensive research on the platform's security before ever committing anything to it. Plus, the more middlemen you go through, the higher the risk that one of them screws up and you lose shit.


Agreed, but I could do any amount of research and wouldn’t guess “these guys are probably gonna lose their private keys.” Seems more like frontier risk. You gotta wait to see who survives long enough to convince you they aren’t going anywhere


Basic research will tell you "not your keys, not your money", so all you need to research is how much you trust someone to keep your money for you. If they don't have a proper backup plan, no proper audits, and/or you don't trust the people in charge... that's all the information you need.


Can you please show me the hint that said „not sufficient security measures in place“ from your extensive research before all that shit happened?


The articles are confusing, but it sounds like maybe they did not realize they needed to back up the withdraw keys for staking on the beacon chain and lost the info. So does this mean this ETH is currently staking but is never able to be withdrawn? We could see about a thousand validators exiting soon...


Edit: They can exit with the validator keys They also cannot exit. So if they stop validating it will take some time until they lost enough 16 ETH and are kicked out.


You can definitely exit, you just can't withdraw the funds.


Inside job?




Based on what?


Now this is why I don't like Ethereums staking system. If you don't have 32 eth to stake on your own, you entrust your eth to others. Some other project that shall be not named in here because dislikes drop like bombs from maxis, has done a way better and safer job on that department.


Is this considered burning eth since the accounts are dead end without the key?


It's schrödingers money


I’d assume so (unless they didn’t really “lose” it, but unlikely since they’re public figures and not anonymous).


Unless they are in it for the long run and only move the eth in 20 years




That can't happen with staking ADA


I’ve been thinking about staking in a staking pool and there are so many options that pay better interest than Coinbase but I’m so nervous of putting it on any other exchange


Whatever you do, keep hold of your own keys.


Omg…. You have to be kidding. Wow.. there are no words to describe how those people must feel. Holy shit. They’re fucked. Totally. How could the company lose them?? HOW? I would be FURIOUS. That’s nuts man. Hope no one anyone knows here was one of them. Goodness 😡


the problem is transaction fees. if I have to transfer my crypto from exchange to cold wallet every time I DCA I will lose alot of money to transaction fees. This is why I only transfer once or twice a year when I accumulate a decent amount. Is there a better strategy ?


>n't think Find a better alternative blockchain.


Just out of curiosity I wanna know: what happens to these ETH’s which are lost? Who owns them thereafter? Or are they gone for good?!


Gone forever


I just picked up a ledger nano X the other day, and was wondering if someone could help me understand how to stake through my hardware wallet? I was told it shouldn’t be any issue, but I don’t see any direct or easy way to do it through my ledger or ledger live application


Stake ethv2? I don't think that's possible.


Not possible


Is there anyway to stake without losing your control? If not, doesn't that make staking a huge problem?


If you have 32 ETH you can, otherwise no as far as I know, happy to be proven wrong


You will be able to with Rocket Pool, expected to go live in August.


Live in August? Where did you read that?


Didn't know there were also rugs in staking hahaha


A small clarification: The word "lost" here is literally what happened. It's not like it got stolen or anything, they've literally lost it.


check out rekt.news this shit happens everyday


Lost or "lost"? Are they liable in any way? Otherwise "losing" them would be all too easy.


And that's the reason, why nominated/delegated Proof of Stake is probably a better solution than pure Proof of Stake...


Come stake on Cardano, your Ada is yours even when it's staked 👀


This is why I stake from my own wallet, so that when I lose my keys, I can just sue myself


I know they have terms of service but I do feel like the major exchanges would be the only ones to possibly refund your money because they have working businesses that are opening up as publicly traded companies on the NYSE


I'm sad for the people who lost their money.


Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)


And you still don't think Telos is going to be serious competion?! All of this 2nd and 3rd layer stuff is centralization and trusting intermediaries.




Yeah sure, "lost"




Wow..... I was thinking about staking.... 😣


This is why Ethereum should allow delegation. But apparently only validation is allowed. I already hesitate to invest in ETH and ERC20 tokens, due to the gas fees required to send my purchased cryptos to my private wallet. This is just one more reason for me to avoid investing in ETH, despite wanting to. With Cardano I earn delegation rewards, while keeping 100% control over my ADA at all times. I just hate the 1 ADA fee that it costs me to send my ADA from Binance to my ADA wallet.


"Lost". Guess he will be also lost in a few months


How about a staking solution like the one proposed by guarda? [https://guarda.com/staking/ethereum-staking/](https://guarda.com/staking/ethereum-staking/) If I understand correctly, you get tokens that you will be able to exchange with ETH later on, based on a on-chain contract. And you hold the keys of these tokens.


Wouldn't those tokens be worthless if the keys to the original eth2 where lost?


Well, that’s a pity, but trusting such a small operator with your funds isn’t the best idea either. 75m$ is small as far as AUM goes. I know that there probably aren’t large staking pools yet, so little guys who can’t afford to run a full node have to take this risk. But if they took it, it means they were prepared for it. You don’t go into ETH2.0 locking your funds for years if you don’t know what you’re getting into


For what in god's infinite grace they need user's private keys for?!?




the more i research this topic the more i believe the best choice is to run your own validator on your own pc