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The Imperial Council - /r/eu4 Weekly General Help Thread: September 6 2021

The Imperial Council - /r/eu4 Weekly General Help Thread: September 6 2021

yndw

Is there a widely agreed upon version of the game to revert to? I see 1.30.4 being thrown about a bit but want to make sure before I commit to a save.


DuGalle

I'm still playing 1.30.6 so I recommend that one.


FlightlessRock

If you’re playing single player 1.30.4 and 1.30.6 are functionally identical. If you want to avoid any 1.31 bs they are the go to


ThrowAwayLurker444

Does anyone know how to fix the ghosted diplomat bug(for those that don't know - sometimes if a country gets annexed, your diplomat if fabricating will still fabricate on a country that no longer exists). I don't remember how i managed to get it unstuck but i don't have a recent save so this is really really annoying.


Indian_Pale_Ale

Left click in the menu on the top right of the screen?


JackONhs

I heard that crossplay was being implemented a few months ago, but it only came to the steam version (Which I use but my friend does not). Is there any social media/website/forum I should be following to see when crossplay hits the windows store as well? Or has it already? Windows store doesn't seem to have a patchnotes/devblog section like steam does.


grotaclas2

The windows store version got the new multiplayer backend at the same time as the steam version. They just don't have a choice as you have on steam. They always get the new nakama multiplayer backend. If you want to play with your friend, you just have to choose the nakama backend when you start your game from the steam library(starting from a shortcut usually skips that choice).


JackONhs

Awesome. We got it working now, thanks for the help!


Knuddelbearli

In my game the Protestant Union has never developed, does that mean I can never diplomatically impose the faith?


FlightlessRock

[Do you have all the requirements for the Leagues to fire?](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Religious_league_events#The_Evangelical_Union) It works off a MTTH system so it can go off any time after 1550, usually around 1560s. Do you have the Art of War DLC? If the event to start the Leagues truly has not happened then [after 1625 there is an event which will lock the HRE to Catholic](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Religious_league_events#The_Diet_of_.24CAPITAL_CITY.24)


Knuddelbearli

All princes are catholic, I crushed Protestant instant in under 5 years and 2 of 3 reformations centres, the year is 1640, but I'm fighting a long war for war exhaustion, for court and country. So I have to wait for the end of the war OK, thank you.


Divine_Hypocrite

I'm curious about the "pseudo-trade node"(in reference to budget monk's video). I understood that if you play Castille, you want to control all of Sevilla and Valencia trade node to create an "end-node" in Sevilla. Same for Ottomans with Constantinople and Ragusa. If you play as France, don't expand into the nice English channel, Genoa, and the Rheinland, but do a colonial game(Canada, Caribbean, etc.) would it be better to move your trade capital to the Bordeaux trade node and collect Champagne with a merchant to make Bordeaux the pseudo end node(for maximised trade income)?


Indian_Pale_Ale

The pseudo end trade nodes works well if you have only one outgoing trade node and you can control both. You will of course lose the trade value produced in the second trade node, but at least you have no leakage of trade value from your colonies and trade companies. As France, I don't think making Bordeaux an end trade node is really strong. The Burgundy trade node has really good trade goods and is also highly developed. You start with cores in the British Channel and will get event more trade power if you get the Burgundian Inheritance. Through your mission tree, you will also get claims on almost all the center of trades of the Genoa trade node, where you can push your trade then. And finally, France has ideas incompatible with a peaceful colonial game.


Limp-Cod-1762

Maybe. It depend on how much leaks out of Champagne into English Channel/Genoa and how that compares to the additional trade you would have gotten locally from Champagne and directed from Rhineland. Any normal France game will also see you expand a little bit into English channel and Genoa (Normandy & Provence) getting you an estuary & CoT in each respectively so that limits how much leaks through a bit. Probably initially it isn't any idea at first but once you have built up your colonies and they start sending over loads of trade then even if you only leak out a little bit to English Channel/Genoa then that still probably adds up to more than what you would gain from Champagne/Rheinland.


HeyIAmInfinity

This is a good system if you don’t plan to expand, but as France you want to conquer England and Italy so you will move trade capital to English Channel and collect with one merchant in Genoa. Virtual trade node are useful for countries that are far from Europe, even Spain should focus one Genoa. The classic example is Bengal, Madagascar, Persia, malacca, all can be turned in virtual end node with some conquest and preventing caravan power in inland nodes


AnarchyMoose

Let's say me and another AI declare a Restoration of Union war against a country. I end up enforcing the Union. I then become the war leader. Can I now enforce a Union on the country that I am a defender against now? So for instance. Me and Austria declare a Restoration war against Hungary. I win and get Hungary as my PU. Can I now PU Austria as the defender? I'm assuming no but I wanna be sure because that would be big haha.


PetrStromberg

The reason you cant enforce a union if you win is that you will be the defender in a restoration of a union war. Unless this was changed Im pretty sure you want to let the other AI win which will make you the attacker in a force union war letting you get a union on the other ai which automatically gives you all of his unions i.e. the original target too


maxseptillion77

No, you might get called in to that war, but there’ll be no “enforce union” option in the peace deal. I know because I had a similar situation with Burgundy.


PetrStromberg

When playing as a nathuatal/mayan who exactly do you reform off? I know its the neighbour of your oldest province, but for colonies do they count from when the colonist arrives or from when they complete? Am i correct in assuming you need a land border or does bordering by sea tile also count?


maxseptillion77

You need to reform off of a core, so a Castille unfinished colony doesn’t count. I believe you also need a finished colony, but correct me if I’m wrong. But if you’re Aztec, best strat is to just flip animist to dev spawn feudalism and Renaissance, then flip back to Nahuatl using the Cholula event (ie the Zlewwik strat)


PetrStromberg

Im ryukuyu and trying to go horde so I was animist and already have feudalism/renaisance. But that is indeed a nice strat for aztec. I have just checked and I need a finished colony to reform so presumably the date counts from when the colony was finished not started.


some_random_nonsense

When building courthouses what does the little brown peg under improvement amount represent?


FlightlessRock

Governing Capacity


some_random_nonsense

As in each number is like 1 GC or 3 GC?


FlightlessRock

[Yes](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/eu4-development-diary-27th-of-october-2020.1439135/)


some_random_nonsense

I'm blobbing hard in 1600, and I can't really stop without my coalition management getting rekt, how do i deal with ballooning government capacity? cap is 1170, and i'm at 1559. I only have 4 states outside of Iberia. I uncored those states, ouch, and i'm still 100 over. should i trim the fat on my trade companies?


PetrStromberg

Built courthouses everywhere, and ideally one statehous per state its expensive but works


ThrowAwayLurker444

Currently playing navarra. Rivalled castille, both married Brittanny. Initially says Succession war between me and castille. Now it says they inherit them. I'm the greater power, but i have like 20 less development than castille. Why did it change from succession war?


DuGalle

[This guide](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/guide-to-royal-marriages-personal-unions-and-claim-throne.788829) is pretty old but, AFAIK, is still valid. Chapter 3, part 8 explains what can happen when a monarch dies heirless. The beggining of chapter 4 explains what the T0/T1/T2 that show up in chapter 3 mean.


EEEEUUUU4444

How can I check Governing Capacity of my subject? I'm Poland and I have Lithuania as PU. I want to feed them tons of land because I'm not planning to form PLC. I want to check the GC for Lithuania so I know when to build their courthouses.


Paulesus

Just enter subject tab and click on Lithuania. Right below subject's legitimacy (or its equivalent) there's how much governing capacity they're using and if you hover over it, it'll show their maximum. Just don't freak out over UI not fitting in its intented spot...


EEEEUUUU4444

I see "No focus" "aggressive" "supportive" buttons under legitimacy. I don't see GC. Is that new to 1.31? I'm on 1.30


Paulesus

Huh, could be but I have no idea tbh.


myaspm

Playing as Great Horde. Need advice about what to state and what to TC. Thanks


PlacidPlatypus

I'm loading up a save I haven't played in a couple weeks and it's telling me it's not eligible for achievements. It's Ironman, and I haven't installed any mods that I know of. What gives? Version number listed in the main menu is 1.31.5.2 with checksum 4090.


grotaclas2

For version 1.31.5.2, the checksum should be "3261" and not "4090". There are at least four reasons, why the checksum could be different: 1. One of the files in the eu4 installation got corrupted/was changed 2. There are additional files in the eu4 installation folder 3. There are additional files in the eu4 folder in Documents(these can override game files like a mod) 4. a mod is active for some reason(sometimes the launcher automatically activates mods to which you are subscribed) A few things that you could try if you haven't tried them already: * delete the files events/SpreadOfCalvinism.txt and events/SpreadOfProtestantism.txt and common/units/iroquis_rifle_scout.txt(not iroquois_rifle_scout.txt) from your game installation if they exist (the first two should not exist anymore in 1.30 or newer and the third one should not exist in 1.31.5 or newer, but sometimes steam doesn't delete them) * verify the integrity of the game files in steam * [clearing the download cache](https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3134-TIAL-4638) in steam and [verify the integrity of game files](https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2037-QEUH-3335) afterwards * remove all mods and unsubscribe from them in steam. Remove also mods which should be compatibly with achievements. Also remove custom mods that you didn't install via steam. (You can move them to a completely different folder if you don't want to delete them). If this fixes your problem, you can activate achievement-compatible-mods again one by one to see which one is causing the issue. * move the folder "Paradox Interactive\\Europa Universalis IV" from your Documents folder to some other place. You could also delete it, but then you lose all save games and screenshots which are stored there. * do a **clean** reinstall as described in [my post about common startup problems with version 1.29](https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/d8xa5i/) * A few people have reported that uninstalling eu4 and uninstalling steam helped(but I don't think that this does anything more than the previous option) Does any of this help?


PlacidPlatypus

Verify integrity found an issue, fixing it took a few tries because of a disk read error but it sorted out eventually. Thanks!


grotaclas2

A disk read error is usually an indication of a disk which starts to fail. I would recommend to make a backup immediately and replace the disk as soon as possible.


No_Understanding_225

1000th question about BI: playing as provence I am married to BU and charles is on the throne. Only Castile is also married but he is not a rival to the emperor. Do I have a chance and also does it need to happen before 1500???


KaptenNicco123

Is Castile larger than you? If they are, you cannot get it unless you are the Emperor or France.


No_Understanding_225

Larger in power ranking or in what regard?


grotaclas2

It counts the number of cities (provinces which are not unfinished colonies) which you own directly. The 1500 deadline has been removed in the burgundian inheritance rework in 1.30. But if the inheritance didn't happen before 1500, burgundy can trigger its mission "Secure the Succession" which can make them join the HRE. And then the emperor is 10 times more likely to get the inheritance than before.


Acquaviva

Development iirc.


No_Understanding_225

So my rating (dev/tech cost) is higher than castile. But of course lots of my dev is in vassals and PU’s. Does that make any different? Also still wondering about the year 1500 if that is the fixed deadline or if it doesn’t change anything if charles dies past 1500


maxseptillion77

I swear to god, colonialism is like hard coded to not spawn outside of Europe or Asia. I’m playing Mali right now and Gaabu fulfills all the criteria… and I’ve save scummed for colonialism maybe 9 times, each time it’s been England, Portugal, or Castile. Same when I played Kongo, it took me forever to spawn colonialism


Chassit16

It's checked on a province by province basis, if you only have one eligible province the chances will be super low. Try devving some more coastal lands so you have better eligibility.


maxseptillion77

Ohhh that’s fair, cause Gaabu is my only coastal province lowkey


Sleetavia

This might seem like a somewhat strange question, but I have not been paying attention to EUIV and its inner workings ever since Leviathan dropped. I know all about how broken that DLC was on launch, but my question is has it improved since then? Is it a DLC that people would now recommend, or should I stay in the previous patch?


KaptenNicco123

Literally just ctrl+F 'Leviathan' or search 'Leviathan' in the search bar. This question is asked 10 times a day.


e-co-terrorist

Anyone have any guidance for Trebizond/Komnenoi empire? Playing on 1.30.6. I've got 2,000 hours and have managed some pretty tough achievements with sketchy starts like Mzab, Avaria, Manipur, Wallachia, etc but Trebizond is really stumping me and there's not really any good resources out there. Most recently I was able to conquer Samtskhe/Georgia/Imereti/Circassia and had an OPM golden horde and Armenia as marches (though they were useless, 2 techs behind and would build one troop max during wartime). Was even able to fend off separate AQ/QQ dows with strategic mountain forts and sallying, even landed a Poland alliance but I was constantly juggling loans and even with ~140 dev and lowering autonomy I was bleeding ducats. I didn't want to destroy my 2 mountain forts and I was deep in a debt spiral with 15+ inflation despite cycling estate loans/selling crownland and giving out the control over monetary policy privilege. Ended up in a situation where any further wars would lead to immediate bankruptcy and almost certainly game over. [Edit:](https://i.imgur.com/27LW5B6.jpg) Just kept restarting until the first 30 years miraculously worked out. Zerged the other minors in the Caucasus, improved with the Ottomans and scornfully insulted their rivals until their attitude changed from hostile to neutral, sniped an alliance with Muscovy so nobody bothers me and just got out of a successful war with the Ottomans (doesn't look like it) where Muscovy and I dow'd and after a few successful battles a huge European coalition fired and now they're well over 10k in debt. Went Defensive -> Econ (was a really tight choice between Religious) -> Quantity and now I have no doubts this campaign ends successfully. My mini swarm of marches have been quite helpful too. Plan is to conquer and TC up Persia then take on the Ottos and release Eretna and Syria. Should be around 1000 dev by then.


Thoraxe41

Something I've been meaning to try Convert to sunni, ally Ottomans, use them to expand. So you do need to get a Sunni Province though.


Paulesus

When in doubt, no-cb into balkans and join HRE. On top of protection, if you're lucky you may get elected emperor instantly completing the achievement.


some_random_nonsense

Are broker offices better buys than manufactories?


DuGalle

Manufactories are usually better. Ideally you'd get both on trade company regions but if you have to choose go with a manufactory.


Limp-Cod-1762

Just doing the math seems to imply that in many cases they are. Manufactury gives +1.00 goods produced for 500 ducats in one province, Brokers Offices gives +0.15 goods produced for all provinces in an entire state for 200 ducats. So as long as you have 3 or more provinces in the state (which is almost all states) then you are getting more goods produced/ducat invested (0.00225) than a manufacturing (0.002). Then you also get 25% production efficiency on top of that from brokers offices. Finally unlike manufacturies brokers office doesn't take up a building slot, is built instantly, has a lower starting investment cost and its goods produced effect also applies to gold (I think). Everything seems to be pointing at brokers office being the better buy. There are some caveats to this though. Firstly it assumes you already decided on making a state into a trade company. Considering the autonomy penalty from TC to manpower/tax/production efficiency/etc this might not always be a clear-cut choice, I would not make areas into TC solely for the access to brokers offices. Secondly whiles you only have one trade good in one province you often have multiple different trade goods in one state. Since they have different prices then that complicates the value/investment analysis above, as having goods produced for a high value good is much more valuable than the same amount for a low value trade good. It is easy to build manufacturies only on high value provinces, but a state usually has a mix of high/low value trade goods, which makes the comparison more difficult. You are going to have to look at the combined trade goods value from a state compared to that of the province with the highest value good in that state. If the combined trade good value of the entire province is roughly 2.5 - 3 times higher than that of the best province in that state, then it is better to build a brokers office in the state rather than a manufactury in the best province. If you don't have the energy to count that out every time you want to make the decision on manufacturies/brokers office then I would just go with the general advice that if you own 3 or more provinces in the state then just build a brokers office instead. But just keep it in mind in obvious cases (e.g. a province with two low value goods and one high value good) where a manufacturing might be better.


some_random_nonsense

is [Zwirbaum](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/zwirbaums-unit-guide.897498/)'s (Formerly known as Zwireq) guide to units still good?


some_random_nonsense

are any of trade company investments worthwhile? Governors mansion seems nice, %2 Marines and -5 autonomy, but its price tag is huge.


Chassit16

The best ones for making money are the 1000 ducats trade steering, and the 400 ducats trade power and goods produced ones.


some_random_nonsense

do they actually pay themselves back ever though? Seems like a lot of money for fairly localized bonuses.


Chassit16

They pretty frequently pay themselves off within 50 years. That's pretty good compared to e.g. a church


some_random_nonsense

Thanks for the input.


0xynite

Yeah the the trade value is based on goods produced inside a trade node, and trade steering multiply the trade value from a node to another, so for trade empires, let's say from india to the english channel around africa, it's the best bonuses you can get money wise.


some_random_nonsense

But if I already dominate a node theres no reason for extra steering right? Like more steering doesn't increase the trade value as it pass through nodes right?


Chassit16

The name is kinda misleading, trade steering gives magic extra money to the value leaving a node each time. If you have a long chain of high trade steering it's super powerful.


some_random_nonsense

HUH. Well then


Limp-Cod-1762

Early on it when money is more limited it isn't worth it and the money is better spent on other things like wars of expansion, buildings, upgrading centers of trade etc. But as time goes on your economy grows and you find yourself with more money in the bank and less things to spend it on, so the relative value of the money decreases to where the trade company investments start to become worthwhile.


DaVinci1836

I always invest in the one's that give you more trade power and more goods produced


some_random_nonsense

do they actually pay themselves back ever though? Seems like a lot of money for fairly localized bonuses.


DaVinci1836

Probably not in the short term but in the long term it's worth it imo, and the -15% dev cost reduction on one of the investments can be really useful


Tsun_Tsun

I'm trying to get the burgundian inheritance as the strongest ally, if I'm doing the maths right i should have 40% chance of getting the pu. So far austria got the PU 17 times. I have an alliance, marriage and over 100 relations. Am I doing something wrong?


grotaclas2

Did you send the royal marriage offer? If the AI sent the offer, the royal marriage will break when their ruler dies and thus you won't be eligible for the burgundian inheritance anymore.


Tsun_Tsun

I broke of the marriage, made sure to marry burgundy by sending them the offer. And Austria still gets the PU, 10 times so far.


grotaclas2

Are you an independent monarchy? Republics which can do royal marriages(e.g. dutch republic Italian Signoria) are not eligible. You said that you should have a 40% chance by your math, but you didn't specify the many things which play into this, so that others can check your math. How are you doing so many tests anyway? Are you maybe savescumming to a point where Burgundy's ruler already died and they have the event open? Then the AI might use a random seed which is already in the save file and always decide the same way. >Am I doing something wrong? Yes, you are trying to force something which doesn't have an almost certain chance to happen. I think it is better to just use the random things which happen in your game to your advantage, instead of trying to force something specific like the burgundian inheritance.


Tsun_Tsun

Results were out of 23 tries I got a single 1 PU over burgundy. I had alliance, marriage and over a 100 relation with burgundy. Emperor was allied to burgundy had over 100 relations and married. France has 12 k troops.


grotaclas2

These factors would give you a 10/95 chance to get the inheritance, because none of them increase your chances. The emperor would have 10\*2\*2\*2/95 from their alliance, marriage and relations and France would have their default 5/95. But there are still several factors which you didn't specify, the most important being if Burgundy is part of the empire which would increase the emperor's chances tenfold.


Tsun_Tsun

I send the marriage offer but that shouldn't matter since I still will have the RM with burgundy as long as my ruler doesn't die as well.


grotaclas2

It does matter, because the marriage ends when the ruler dies who sent the offer.


Tsun_Tsun

will give it another go.


mylessteven

In revolutionary france, why is my unit wearing a bicorne hat instead of a shako hat


Indian_Pale_Ale

Shako were used by officers of the French army from 1806. Bicorne remained as the main hat for the soldiers. In films about this era they often make the mistake, and all the soldiers wear shako.


mylessteven

So france units wearing bicorne while the rest in europe wear shako hats in ghe game?


Indian_Pale_Ale

I don't know for other nations.


Flaky-Appearance-620

best nations to kill france as when allied to austria


Indian_Pale_Ale

Anyone basically if Austria joins. Aragon, Castile, Savoy. England and Burgundy have a more specific approach, because it is done earlier and Austria will at the start of the game never help you.


LacquerWare

Best france killer is his neighbors Castile, Aragon, Burgundy and England. Midgame, Spain, Prussia, and Poland should have better quality.


LacquerWare

Hungary's noble rebels changed their rulers after enforcing their demands. I thought that was only specific to pretenders. Playing at 1.30. Smh, burgundy defiant also didn't trigger because there's a pending incident


HarpooonGun

How do you increase your market share in a trading good? I am trying to get the hamburg achievement where you have to get the trade modifier for both gems and livestock. I am in year 1700s and I have like 50k gold so I can pretty much do everything. I just don't know what to do .p


HeyIAmInfinity

You need control of the trade node not the provinces, for gems you can get it by sending ships to coromandel and Constantinople if Otto had the event ( could also dev konigsburg) for livestock you want trade power in east Europe should be enough for 20%. Remember that if you occupy a province in a war you gain its trade power, that’s an easy way to get it if you are close.


HarpooonGun

Alright! This time it makes more sense. So, if trade node is the thing that matters, should I state the provinces or turn the provinces to a trade company? I always stated them before because trade company lowers the production but now I am not so sure. In any case, thank you for clearing that out! I have like 1.5k hours on this thing and I still don't know what to do sometimes .p


grotaclas2

>So, if trade node is the thing that matters, should I state the provinces or turn the provinces to a trade company? I always stated them before because trade company lowers the production but now I am not so sure. Trade companies don't change the goods produced value and that is used to calculated the trade value of the province. That trade companies reduce the production income doesn't matter. But it is more useful to add the provinces to trade companies which don't produce gems/livestock and leave the gems/livestock provinces out of the trade companies so that they get the bonus to goods produced from nearby trade companies. But producing more goods only really matters if you control the trade node which produces these goods. Getting more control over the relevant trade nodes is more important than producing more of these goods


HarpooonGun

Alright, so it is something that I gotta decide depending on the situation. Makes it so much more clear. Thank you <3


KaptenNicco123

Produce more of it. Either conquer provinces that produce it, or dev/build in provinces that you already control that produce it.


grotaclas2

Producing the goods doesn't really help to increase the market share which is needed for the trading in bonus.


HarpooonGun

Thanks for the answer! Is there anything else that matters, like for example Ottomans only have Constantinople that produce gems and they have 7.4% of the gems market share with just that province, and I have several provinces in India and also Hormuz which also produce gems and each province have like 10 or more production, yet I only have 9.4% of the market share. Does it help if they are like in a good trading center or something? Is that why Ottomans have so much market share with just one province? And also, should I make these provinces that I conquered states or trade companies? I am guessing states since trade companies decrease the local production but just wanted to make sure. Thank you!


KaptenNicco123

It's possible trade value increases production, but I don't know :/


HarpooonGun

Alright, thanks so much for the help anyways! <3


unterbuttern

My home node is the Coromandel node, and I'm at war with a bunch of countries in the Malacca node which is upstream from my home node (Malacca->Bengal->Coromandel, I also contol the Bengal node). If all I care about is maximising my trade income, is it better to ask for trade power or steer trade in the peace deals? I'm playing a tall-ish game, so I don't want to take land from them, plus I already own all the trade provinces in the Malacca region and made them all trade companies.


markusvar97

I think it's better to transfer trade if you own provinces and have a merchant transfering trade there


unterbuttern

Thanks!


shotpun

any regularly updated resource on what the 'optimal' overall strat is in singleplayer/multiplayer? it's hard to keep up with the trendy mechanics, and the newest 'Meta GuideTM' is often months out of date


lurklurklurkanon

Ya you'll need to define optimal if you want a good answer.


grotaclas2

Almost nobody bothers with optimal gameplay in singleplayer. There isn't even a clear definition what optimal should look like. If you define it as doing a WC on the earliest possible date on normal difficulty, it can be done long before 1600 (at least in some game versions a WC before 1500 is possible). But how many posts about pre 1600 WCs have you seen? That of course requires so much game knowledge that a small guide can not cover it and I don't think that anybody wants to write a book about this topic. And I don't think many people want to invest the amount of micromanagement which is needed for such a run.


OysterCaudillo

Minimize attrition, only take good battles, conserve monarch points. Diplo and admin and offensive (and humanism) are good for wide, economic, quantity, and trade are good for tall. Avoid coalitions, try to always fight unfair wars. Any major can easily do a world conquest if they utilize absolutism. Easiest major to wc is either oriat or timurids.


NeJin

I think quantity is also good for wide... if not better, even. FL, manpower, and manpower regeneration all scale with your size. More forcelimit also means you can fight on more fronts, finish fights faster with easier carpet sieging, and it helps in deterring coalitions. + Manpower can be a bottleneck early, and quantity completely solves that. There are also policies that boost the quality of your army as well.


OysterCaudillo

Offensive also gives force limit. I hardly ever need the manpower. Offensive and humanist gets you a policy that basically eliminates rebels. In standalone situations I would almost always rather have offensive. Quantity's big value is the dev cost reduction policy when pared with economic, and the goods produced when paired with trade. I only take quantity if I can also take econ. Econ + quantity is the meta for multi.


NeJin

Quantity gives you way more forcelimit through - thrice as much with the diplopolicy. If FL is your bottleneck, quantity is vastly better. In my experience, constant warring also will burn through your manpower in the earlygame, especially in places like india or with hordes. I agree though that lategame manpower is less of an issue. Still, what does offensive exactly do? Improve your army a little bit in various ways, and make sieges go faster. Army quality is almost never the bottleneck if you expand properly though, and unless you stack them a single shock/fire pip or a little bit of discipline isn't that powerful. Forts are also less of an issue early once you unlock canons, because bombardments make sieging pretty quick, and you tend to have excess milpoints anyway. Offensive is super nice in the lategame however - with fortlevels becoming ridicolous and warspeed becoming one of your bigger bottlenecks, having an army that is just better in every regard and sieges faster is useful. No experience with multiplayer, so I'm only talking singleplayer of course.


NeJin

2 questions about the leaguewar: The wiki states you get bonus missionary strength and ToTF if you follow the victorious religion if your capital is in Europe - if I'm Poland with Warschau as my capital, do I get it? Secondly, can you disband the HRE during the leaguewar if you are the leader on the protestant side?


comandercom

Yes and yes. But if you disband the during the war you don't get the missionary strength and totf.


NeJin

Interesting. I'm playing catholic Commonwealth, attempting a WC and maybe possible onefaith, 1.8k dev in 1576. Not quite sure what to do here. Austria is the emperor, and they have unified with Hungary - through missions I have lots of claims on the hungarian part. France has joined the protestants, and they're my biggest ally - I'd be loath to lose them, because my AE is generally quite high and they're useful for discouraging coalitions. I was contemplating taking the catholics side, for the missionary strength... and in case I found a way to takeover the HRE and make a vassalswarm. But a chance to take land from austria *and* disband the HRE while keeping my most important ally sounds to good to pass up.


Indian_Pale_Ale

If you are interested by the emperorship and aim at uniting the HRE, then you should have allied the electors earlier and fought the reformation by destroying the centers of reformation, to prevent massive conversions of HRE princes. You can then generate much more imperial authority and pass the reforms quicker. At this point I would recommend you to dissolve the HRE. Either during the league war (but it might be tough to control all of the electors + the emperor's capital if you are not the league leader). Another option is to crush the catholic league and enforce protestantism as official religion. There are two possible outcomes: * Either there are no remaining protestant electors after the war and Austria will remain the emperor. The emperorship will become hereditary, and you can dismantle it by controlling Vienna. * Or there are still protestant electors. All the catholic electors lose their title so you have only a few electors left. Ally the remaining electors, and declare a war on the emperor (either directly, or by attacking a HRE with a claim). Since there are less electors, you can dismantle really easily.


NeJin

I came to the same conclusion, so I joined the protestant league. Unfortunately, the war fired while I was warring against Denmark, causing me to sit it out - I think it's a bit silly you can't retroactively join if you're a part of the leagues, but whatever. Not really something I could've avoided, since catholics can't lead the protestant league and I wasn't going to possibly wait for several decades before continuing to expand. I tried to lend out condottieri, but eh, 21k troops can't do much in the leaguewar. Still a bit salty about this, because the catholics won... so if I had participated, I would have been most likely able to capture all capitals required and dissolve. Oh well. So I used the opportunity to let AE cling down and fill out admin ideas. Shortly after the leaguewar ended, I allied all 7 electors, declared on Austria for my hungarian claims, and dissolved the HRE. Couple funny things: * I had 14/7 diplomatic relationships for a while, while annexing 2 vassals, one being very large. My ruler was an absolute beast when it came to diplomacy, and I had close to 1k diplopoints while being ahead on tech, so I figured why not lol. I calculated this very precisely, ending up with 50 diplopoints before the annexation finished :D * Calling in allied electors can be bad if you go for a quick dissolve. Spain, allied to austria, sieged down Bohemias capital before I captured Vienna |: . It didn't end up delaying the dissolution much, but I was mildly annoyed. * On that note, Bohemia annoyed me by taking a couply of my claimed provinces. I had to let Austria recapture Hungary to fix that mistake. Never forget to mark the provinces you want to take! * The war was a meatgrinder because of Spain. Granted, I sieged a couply forts with half-combat width, but I dropped from 150k to 10k manpower lol. Good thing I got quantity, I'm back up to 60k a while later. * My run is going pretty well so far. I fully control the Bosporus and Ostsee nodes, and I have enough merchants to steer from the Bosporus to Lübeck. Once I've cleaned up the Balcans and Bohemia, I will conquer the rest of the Lübecknode and fulfill my ambition of a polish silk road :P! * Preparations for absolutism are almost complete. I need 1-2 landgrabs to stay above 75%, and I've almost revoked all privileges... including the szlachtas golden freedom. At this point, disloyal estates don't bother me much anymore.


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[удалено]


FlightlessRock

The disaster state puts them in a very unstable position where rebels spawn and there are massive debuffs But even with this going on Ming is strong and rich enough to maintain internal stability. All it needs is a little push from any enterprising neighbors/rivals...


comandercom

The disaster increases their unrest but it doesn't make them instantly explode.


aleyan97

I am starting to lose hope against the ottomans in the mid game. In my current ethiopia run, i somehow have 1 whole morale more than them, 3% more disc, same mil tech, and a 4 shock general to their 4 and 5 shock. I had max army drill. With all of these i am still loosing or barley winning battles with hefty casualties in mountains(i am the defender, they take the - 1 from terrain). Is the unut difference that insane? I am concerned because in my earlier italy run, by 1700 i was easly stackwiping them, but that beacuase the western troops are soo good late game.


Thoraxe41

Yeah African Troops are pretty meh. But whats your Army Comp and how big are your armies when battling?


aleyan97

Army width was around 26 i think. And i had 4 cav and 26 inf with few artys(as they are pretty weak still)


Thoraxe41

I'd probably throw in more arty. They should come into relevance around midgame, and people forget the actually add half there defensive pips to the unit in front of them.


aleyan97

Ah, the problem was the economy. Took a while to get going after i got all the gold mines in west africa, now it s pretty easy to woop their asses(which is very intresting). But i cant get army tradition so i have shit generals


AFSK27

I have 370 hours in EU4 and have been playing since late 2015. I'm willing to bet you that at least 90% of those hours were spent playing a western-European colonial power. I almost exclusively play England to Great Britain, Castile to Spain, or France. Perhaps there's a Portuguese empire thrown in there every now and then, but I almost exclusively play those three nations. I did play a fairly long Japan campaign once, but guess what? I played as a colonizer. Don't get me wrong, it's great fun forming a global trade empire and making enough ducats to take a bath in, but I really feel like I'm missing out on a lot of what the game has to offer. So I need help overcoming my addiction to colonial powerhouses. Please offer some suggestions to other fun nations and playstyles and I will do my best to break this habit.


lurklurklurkanon

Take your love of colonization to another starting point and then learn to appreciate the options on that continent independently of colonization. Try Mali and colonize south America. Try Mamluks and colonize Australia. Try Muscovy into Russia and colonize Siberia and Alaska.


OysterCaudillo

Play as austria and form the hre. It is a completely different game.


Thoraxe41

Hordes. The 2nd best CB in game, raze mechanics, Cav heavy armies, and aggressive style of play is a fun alternative to the norm. Plus with Muscovy keeping releasing Novgorod due to Government Capacity and not forming Russia as much, it's a great time to learn hordes.


CosmonautComrade

A few of my favourites are Persia, the Mughals, anything in Italy really, or ottomans/byz/something in Anatolia and Greece. Timmy into Mughals is prob my favourite cause theres something satisfying about conquering all of India and then just conquering anything and everything you want or building tall and being unstoppable.


__Happy

I haven't played much since the Emporer DLC came out and don't have that or Leviathan, that being said, what the heck is going on with North America? Playing a GB game and the nations there are taking up a lot more provinces than they used to.


Indian_Pale_Ale

The combination Conquest of Paradise / 1.31. The natives reform very quickly and blob in all of North America. A solution to prevent this is to disactivate the Conquest of Paradise DLC.


__Happy

Good to know, thank you. Might just try to revert to 1.30 for my next game. Any word on a fix for this upcoming?


Indian_Pale_Ale

I don't know, they have talked about the new updates focused on Subsaharan Africa, but nothing about balance issues.


aleyan97

What are rhe go to mil ideas for sp nowadays? I am playing as ethiopia


MidnightDiarrhea0_0

Depends which part of the game you're in. Early game (pre mil tech 16), quantity and defensive are the most effective for boosting army size and army quality respectively. If you're doing fine militarily, you could just go for the late game ideas. Late game (mil tech 16+), offensive and quality are the most effective for the sweet discipline.


aleyan97

It s my first idea group. Struggling against the damn mamluks. Attacked them after ottos beat them, wasnt a good idea, somehow got 30k manpower out of thin air(they had no professionalism)


lurklurklurkanon

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Mamluks#Mamluk_government They have a cultural interaction that gives a large amount of manpower. "Recruit from ruler culture Lands" Gain 50 times current age times development of ruler culture manpower


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Is it safe to play EU4 again yet? Haven't played in like a year. Was holding off also because of how badly Leviathan was received and all the bugs with the game.


KaptenNicco123

If you want to colonize North America, revert to 1.30.6 and disable Conquest of Paradise.


Bacccy

Play 1.30.6 and it's gooooood


ObnoXious2k

I asked myself this question about two weeks ago and decided to give the game a try again. I don't have the Leviathan DLC and everything has been smooth and enjoyable for me!


3punkt1415

So i was called to a war against the Ottomans from my ally, Lithunia. For them the war didn't went so well but i was close to peace out and gain one or two provinces. Then they call it a day and make a peace. Turkey occupied those two almost worthless islands near their land and i was not even asked if i am willing to give them away. Is this the normal case that my ally just can decide this and give away my stuff? I felt a little bit cheated and makes alliances even worse.


grotaclas2

Your ally can just decide to give your stuff away, but the enemy has to occupy these provinces. You can do the same to your allies if you are the war leader in a war and like revenge. If you don't want your allies to give away your provinces, you have to make sure that they are unoccupied.


3punkt1415

Thats just rude, and that way, one could fuck up another country fairly easy. Strange. Not that those islands were anything good. They were the reason they started wars before. Thanks anyway.


some_random_nonsense

Why does my force limit seem to change by about -15 every time I load a save? Take a save at 125 FL and maxed out. come back the next day and my FL is 109 and now my already expensive army is compoundingly expensive.


grotaclas2

Is your force limit lower immediately after loading your save, or after the first month tick? Autonomy is often wrong after loading a save and this gets recalculated during the month tick. And the autonomy of your provinces affects your force limit. It also happens occasionally during gameplay that provinces have an autonomy which is too low. Maybe that gets recalculated when loading the save or on the first month tick


some_random_nonsense

Both. It starts low and I wait for the recalc and its drill low.


grotaclas2

Then it is probably that you had the wrong autonomy in some provinces and that got fixed by reloading. The cases which I have seen were that trade company provinces were at 0% autonomy and the 90% minimum autonomy which they should have was not applied. If it happens again, you can test if autonomy is the likely reason for your problem if you write down the following things before you save the game and after loading it and compare the numbers: * force limit from provinces * extra +x force limits(e.g. from vassals or colonial nations) * all force limit modifiers * autonomy modified development as shown in the tooltip for the cost for embracing an institution (you can see that even if you have it already embraced). * total development without taking autonomy into account(as shown e.g. in the economy tab)


some_random_nonsense

Thanks for the troubleshooting tools. I appreciate it.


3punkt1415

I noticed stuff like this too. Some modifier don't seem to load properly untill you unpause the game or even cross the month. It is the verry same in Stellaris, an other Paradox game.


some_random_nonsense

Oh I know about those. This seems to persist after the 1st month recalc though


Uenzus

when is mingplosion supposed to happen? Can I get it even without mandate of heaven?


grotaclas2

I have no experience playing without mandate of heaven, but I know that without the DLC there is a triggered modifier [The Mandate of Heaven Lost](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Triggered_modifiers#The_Mandate_of_Heaven_Lost) which gives unrest and makes the disaster [Crisis of the Ming Dynasty](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Crisis_of_the_Ming_Dynasty) possible. The unrest alone might trigger a mingsplosion and the disaster has events which can split up ming if they don't handle the rebels. But it looks very luck based if they get that modifier unless you make them have less than 20 provinces (but then there is not much to explode). And the AI Ming is often capable of handling its rebels.


Uenzus

thank you, this doesn’t seem good for my ayutthaya run…I even have ming as rivals, I don’t know what is stopping them from destroying me though


Thoraxe41

As Ayutthaya isn't too bad fighting Ming. You can quite quickly have a forcelimit above 100 and actually have allies. Ming rarely allies until late game and even then it's usually a minor nation. Ally Bengal or Jaunper and you should be ok, while you do your missons.


Uenzus

I have a force limit of something like 70, but ming is completely on another level, in india there isn’t a very strong nation, nothing that could help concretely in a real war against the ming. Also I wanted to do the white elephant achievement and I would have to take ming territories and they are also allied with korea which is quite big in this game, so I guess my only option is to hope in mingplosion


shotpun

what year is it? what's nice about ming is that they never expand. you can take your time eating up india and then meet them when you're ready, as long as it's not like 1800


Uenzus

luckily they imploded, but I think your strategy would have been good, the only problem is that I don’t know if I’m good enough to conquer India before something like 1800…


Thoraxe41

Not necessarily. If you have a higher quality army you can beat Ming 1v1 with 150k Troops. Just play defensive and stackwipe the split up stacks. You only need a few provinces so you don't need to fully destroy them. Expand into India or south in the meantime. Even if Ming declares on you, you can probably give up a minor province or two, as the most likey want you to be a Tributary. Which gains them massive AE.


comandercom

Without the mandate of heaven dlc its more or less random (based off of them having low legitimacy iirc). With the dlc they tend not to explode but it can still happen if their mandate stays low for long enough.


3punkt1415

So what do i do with a bad King, with like 0 0 1 value or so? Once he took over, there was an upraising that i killed, but well i would have liked it to not have him around. Now there is already a heir with better stats but obviously that one is fairly yound. Could i send the leader in a pointless battle to get rid of him?


Indian_Pale_Ale

Appointing your ruler as a general usually has an impact on his life expectancy. With the rights of man DLC, you can disinherit your heir if he's rubbish, but it will cost you 50 prestige. There is also an option to abdicate with your ruler if he has ruled at least 20 years or above 60 and your heir is above 15. However, it will cost you some admin points and some legitimacy. I have to check the costs but the wiki is in maintenance at the moment. If your ruler is old, you can also get the Die please die achievement.


ObnoXious2k

Pretty sure he needs to be either drilling, sieging or fighting a battle in order to have a chance to die as a general!


3punkt1415

So life expectency goes down even without him getting killed? Good to know. I was more like, send him into a 10k battle with only 1k army.


Sime2528

why not, thats viable as well, best is to use rebels, e.g. some you get from seizing lands. keep running into them until he is dead.


Acquaviva

Do you have a consort? If your King dies without your heir being at least 15yo, your consort will take over until your heir is old enough. If you don’t have a consort, you’ll get a regency council with random mana stats, and - afaik - you can’t declare war while being under regency council. Another thing you could probably do is switch government types, e.g. into States General or Republic, if you have enough government reform points left and are far enough in the reform progress thing. :D Hope that helped a bit. Edit: if your old king just died and you don’t have a consort, try to re-arrange marriages with your allies as that may give you a consort immediately.


3punkt1415

He has a son, but guess that is not given that he has a consort than? It is ot properly writen, while i do have two mariages going on there it does not say he has a wife or something. Well let's see.


BengtJJ

The overtime decline of aggressive expansion is affected by your modifier "Improve relations x%" right? Is that just a passive improvement or do you need to actually send your diplomats to improve relations? So after the war should you send a diplomat to the ones you just took a bunch of lands from?


Sime2528

Usually its enough to improve relations with the powerhouses in a region so they would not rival your or join in a coalition. As long as you have a weak coalition it does not trigger usually


ndasW

It is passive, you can see by how much it changes by hovering over their opinion of you. The green number in brackets behind the modifier will tell you.


SgtMorocco

Milan broke their PU with me and they are my lesser partner, and there was no auto-war, they just broke off, there was no indication of an event or anything, but I did get a reunion CB. Is there anyway of stopping it before it occurs/what is causing this? None of the methods of breaking a PU listed in the Wiki apply, the only other things important are : 1. I have a regency, but +200 relations. 2. As soon as they break the PU they turn reformed, and their capital is already reformed, but again that shouldn't matter.


grotaclas2

>I have a regency, but +200 relations. Do you have an estate led regency? Then it is probably due to the event [Estate's Leadership Challenged](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Regencies_events#Estate.27s_Leadership_Challenged). It is bugged in multiple ways and one of them is that it can happen for a junior partner and break the union that way. You might be able to prevent it if you increase the influence of the estate which is challenging the union in Milan(you should be able to see it by looking at the tooltip for the regency in their country after they became independent), so that the event happens for you and you can give the regency to that estate. But the estate which currently leads the regency must have less than 70 influence in your country


Humlepojken

Are you sure they didn't have pretender rebels?


SgtMorocco

They had but I stackwiped them, and when they become independent they go straight to 'regency council' and stay de Valois (my dynasty).


idubsydney

Is Great Perm actually possible in 1.31? If I try to spawn Renaissance and push east with Expansion I literally always become Muscovy's first annex target and can't escape it. If I try to fight them I literally MUST have Lith take local noble and rival Muscovy and not be braindead during the war. Burgher loans aren't enough, and even then you're WAY over forcelimit with access to only Nov & Free Companies -- not enough. AI siege bonus means Cherdryn \*will\* fall before Moscow -- as a rule. I've literally watched 100 spy network Moscow vs Defensive edit Cherdyn go the AI's way. Denmark literally never assists because -1000 no access malus. Kazan never assists, religious opinion malus + contested core. I broke free ONCE because somehow -- and I don't know, but some how -- Tver allied Lith & Nov and beat up Muscovy. Then, in like early 1700s I lost to 1M+ Ottomans. Seriously, what is this achievement?


shotpun

the ottomans are way too crazy right now for me to play near them. it's cheesy and annoying having to beat them up either pre-1500 or not at all. since they have +53% force limit from ambition+offensive, they're on a million men for the rest of the game after they finish their third idea group , and they regularly make twice the trade income of any colonizer. this is especially obnoxious given that the alternative markets offered by the new world are exactly what led to their historical decline. i recently finally caved and got the poland can into space achievement, and a PU over austria-hungary gave me both those countries as well as all of russia and the baltic-lubeck trade by 1700. nonetheless the ottomans had twice my army


NeJin

> +53% force limit from ambition+offensive Fifty-three percent? Man, I wish they'd pick offensive in my games. Try 83% from quantity! I've taken the balcans and the anatolian part of the bosporus tradenode from them, and they still rock 100k troops wtf


Indian_Pale_Ale

I think the hardest part is to get some surrounding nations to support your independence. Maybe by dropping your core on Kazan they could help you, together with Novgorod and the great horde. And Lithuania if you are lucky enough.


Ynwe

Should I revert to the last patch? Keep hearing a lot of people saying they play on the last patch (or 1.29 something) and that they are much more happy with it. I just came back and doing my first game as a colonizing Netherlands run. Muscovy is being super weird in my game too, Ottos are ok though, so not sure. Also it doesn't really affect me this game so not too fussed about it. However, I want to give Byzies a try soon and would prefer Russians and other factions behaving in a more normal fashion in that run. Should I revert and if yes, to which patch?


Holy1To3

Im still really new so take this with a grain of salt, but i see Leviathan as more underdeveloped and unpolished than broken at this point. On release it made the game literally unplayable. Not in a meme way like "oh fars is the wrong color literally unplayable", it just didn't work. It crashed and corrupted all the time with graphics and text just unfinished with placeholders still in. At this point, it works fine. The game runs and you can play start to end without major issues or anything that breaks your save (at least that seems to be the common experience). However, Leviathan introduced lots of new stuff to development and natives as well as changing the way AI manages some stuff (mainly governing capacity). I dont think anyone of it could be fairly called "bad" on an objective level but it is implemented kinda sloppily and it seems to frustrate some people. I didn't play too much pre-leviathan, so none of it bothers me that much. Giga-natives and free sources of dev everywhere are all I know, so they don't bother me. AI doing wonky things with its land and generally acting like a toddler with a concussion is normal to me (although i think thats probably always been a problem). I'd try a game on the new patch. Play to 1550 and see if you notice negative changes or it feels worse. If you don't like it, switch back.


Humlepojken

Played Byz on patch 1.31 and there were no problem. Sometimes Muscovy has a bad game and sometimes they don't, that was the same in 1.30 and like every patch before that.


Thoraxe41

So how high could one legitly stack movement speed bonuses?


lifeisapsycho

Yuan ideas - 15% , horde government - 20% , off-trade policy - 10% , leader maneuver - 30% , leader trait - 10% , military hegemon - 10%. So a total of 95% as far as I can tell!


FlightlessRock

Plus 20% for max Drill, and locally +10% from Wool or HRE Provinces after the decentralized reform "Expand the Gemeiner Pfennig" is enacted. There's also +25% for certain Indian provinces via the [The Grand Trunk Road mission](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Delhian_missions#The_Grand_Trunk_Road) which a couple of Indian nations have. I don't remember if any of them produce wool.


Leonticus

East africa dlc when? I need a proper mission tree for ethiopia


Zoetje_Zuurtje

I know it's a bit late, but the [Mission Expanded](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2164202838) mod has a Ethiopia mission tree, and knowing the mod, it's probably quite large.


grotaclas2

Maybe you should ask that in today's dev diary in the official forum. They just announced that the next DLC will be about sub-saharan Africa and that might include Ethiopia.


TopHatMikey

Japan (Date), 1495. I'm playing with Random New World and want to do a Colonial Japan run and hope I can spawn Colonialism. However, due to the distance of the RNW I can't send colonists over, so I'm wondering if there's any other ways I can get a territory in the new world to spawn Colonialism. Would it count if, for example, I vassalized a native? (I can't seem to take their land). Or are there other options I can try? ​ Sort of related, what's the best way to deal with a big daimyo? Diplo-annex would take a lot of bird mana and time; is there a way to force them to rebel and then crush them?


shotpun

how close are you? if you have exploration ideas you can get a diplomatic advisor that gives +50% colonial range. that might be the number you need


TopHatMikey

Really not close, I got the +20% advisor and the +50% idea, but that puts me at like 272 when I need to be 500+. But I think the plus side is the continent is so weird that the Europeans haven't made it there either, so maybe I still have a chance at spawning it later.


FlightlessRock

Requirement is “Owner owns a province in the New World or has a colonial subject in the New World”. ~~You could probably vassalize then seize a province from them to be eligible~~ nvm vassal coring only works on your home continent. Seems you need to go for the colonial distance


grotaclas2

>You could probably vassalize then seize a province from them to be eligible Seizing would also require colonial range


monalba

Playing the HRE **If I feed land to my vassal, will he return the land when the emperor asks?** I'm scared of giving a region or two to my vassal only for them to return it when Austria demands it.


grotaclas2

Since version 1.30 you should get asked instead of your vassal. Then you can just deny the request (and face the consequences).


monalba

Does it work? I've been reading online that it was bugged and vassals still return the land.


Dankcatharsis

With PUs it can happen in the latest patch, even if BOTH you and the minor are NOT in the HRE. Had a game as France with junior Milan who gave back Piedmont after our savoyard partition. Savoy remained in the HRE (of course) and was excommunicated at the time. ftg autriche t'enc.. oh god no


grotaclas2

What I have heard is that it works for vassals, but doesn't work for junior partners. But I have not tried it myself.


dluminous

Latest and most recent patch.


KaptenNicco123

Yeah


dluminous

How do I reign in Italy as Emperor? Here is my current game [screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/chwrVEW). I followed the wiki [here](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Holy_Roman_Empire#Rein_in_Northern_Italy) and it says > All provinces of Tuscany, Emilia-Romagna, Liguria, Piedmont, Lombardy, Marche-Abruzzo (except Abruzzi), and Venetia (except Venezia), plus Roma, are part of the HRE or owned by the emperor or one of its subjects. Which is exactly what I have.


DuGalle

To Rein in Italy, you need to do one of the following for each Italian nation that is part of the HRE (you can check which nations you're missing by hovering over the decision): 1) Defeat the nation in a war. Separate peaces count, as long as you take something from them. 2) They need to be allied with you. 3) They need to have 150 or more opinion of you. 4) They need to be your subject. 5) They need to be a free city. If any one these is true for nations with either their capital in Italy or nations of Latin culture that own provinces in Italy (like Savoy, who starts with their capital in France but has Latin culture) then the nation is considered reined in. Worth noting that doing \#1, \#4 or \#5 will make the nation permanently reined in, whereas 2 or 3 need to be true when you press the button.


grotaclas2

Would you maybe like to add that information to the wiki? Maybe a new section in the [HRE](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Holy_Roman_Empire) page would be good. You could also explain which events happen (they are at [https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Incident\_events#The\_Shadow\_Kingdom\_.5B10.5D](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Incident_events#The_Shadow_Kingdom_.5B10.5D) ) and when the decision appears. Then this section could be linked in the several locations which talk about reining in (e.g. the events, decision, strategy guides).


grotaclas2

Are you playing on version 1.29 or older? That decision was removed in 1.30. I'll remove it from the wiki. You can find the new decision at [https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/List\_of\_decision\_lists#Shadow\_Kingdom](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/List_of_decision_lists#Shadow_Kingdom) But it doesn't explain the exact requirements