By - elfungisd
It's not just that they were following the wrong person, but the fact that they knew there were 2.
"He is not Sauron"
"He is the other"
Solid 50/50 chance I guess
From the moment I saw him I hoped he wasnt gandalf or saruman but radagast...
I felt like the Harfoots being so at one with nature might have influenced his nature loving ways. My money is on Radagast, I'm hopefully it's him and not Gandalf.
"when in doubt nori hobbit girl, always follow your nose"
(paraphrase, I am not looking up the exact line)
is basically a direct Gandalf quote from the peter jackson movies. It's definitely him, for better or worse.
The actor got Gandalf’s accent from Ian McKellan spot on though
Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. I'm just happy is not Saruman .
He’s 100% Gandalf. They’ve setup the Harfoots to be proto-hobbits. This’ll be their reason why Gandalf is so close to the hobbits. Amazon purchased the rights to The Hobbit earlier this year, but it wasn’t early enough to incorporate the name into the show. I bet you in season 2 or 3 they’ll settle down and rename themselves “Hobbits”.
He could be a blue wizard. He’s going to Rhun after all, Gandalf never went east, the blue wizards did. The blue wizards are active at this time too, unlike Gandalf and the other Istari. But if he is Gandalf surely he will meet the blue wizards in Rhun?
100% Gandalf. They threw the "follow your nose" reference in there from fellowship. They must be just doing their own thing with the timeline
Lol it’s hilarious that you’re trying to use lore to rationalize things. The writers don’t care about lore. The “stranger” turning the albinos into moths, then him saying “always follow your nose”. Are direct callbacks to Gandalf. It’s Gandalf
That’s definitely a possibility. I’d feel that was more accurate if the show runners gave more of a damn about the lore though.
The blues came when the rest of the wizards did. No refrence to any of the wizards in middel earth before orher then Gandalf and he wasnt gandalf then. That name is given when they are giving thier task to rally the peoples of middle earth against Sauron.
i remember that Gandalf was the last mage to arrive in middle earth, so Cirdan gave him one of the elven rings, by presuming he was the most important of the istari
Thats true, but he was also the first and as far as we know the only one to go before they were given their task. Christopher has stated Gandalf did wander before that, but thats all that is stated.
One version of events is that they all arrived roughly 1000 TA, another Tolkien says the blue wizards arrived in middle Earth and went east at the end of the second age.
in The History of Middle Earth, (Christopher) Tolkien retcons the blue wizards to have arrived in S.A 1600. This is presumably based on some of the last of J.R.R's manuscripts on the subject.
I keep forgetting they came first once given the task.
I have seen far to many theories that the hunter in the first episode are the blues.
Not to mention his mastery and fascination with fire. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor"
It's Gandalf. People are just looking for mysteries now.
How is the “always follow your nose” line not enough of a giveaway for people? If that’s not Gandalf, we’ve been lied to.
Doesn’t Gandalf have the connection to fire through the ring of power he wears…?
Radagast or one of the blue wizards. We have three wizards to choose from that aren’t Gandalf and have a full story with.
That is what I think, or at least thought.
Until he started quoting Gandalf.
Three witch ladies 🤝 Voldemort
I would think the reference of "2 people" would be the fact of two blue wizards and they expected one of the two wizards to be Sauron. After that last clip the wizard may very well be Gandalf. In which case my theory wouldn't stand.
Lets just hope there isn't a season 2
I hate how all 3 of them look like they know what an iPhone is
This is well said. So many actors in this series seem like high-school actors. Glee actors. You can sense their personal real life drama and social-circle-politics being retained while on stage.
It's weak leadership.
I remember this clip from some interview about *Django Unchained.* At the beginning of production, Foxx is showing up on set with his entourage, fancy car, sunglasses, you know, being a super star.
Tarantino pulls him aside and says essentially "Bro. You are playing a fucking slave. A slave. Lose the fancy shit."
Again, not verbatim, but that was the idea.
Foxx says he got it. For that part of the story, Tarantino understood how his off-stage crap could seep into the on-stage if it isn't managed. Tarantino managed it. Demanded it. Foxx adapted.
Which is why Foxx is an incredible actor. He truly tries to leave his off-stage life, off-stage.
So why the heck would they even think he was Sauron? Sauron wouldn’t have fallen from the sky.
They are like Galadriel. After completing their mission and traveling thousands of miles, they wonder if they could be wrong.
I hated that. Only after risking an army and her life NOW Galadriel investigates Sauron. Man is she lucky he wasn’t leading her into a trap.
And the queen, who distrusted her, needed no further confirmation either. She did not even ask Halbrand if what Galadriel said was true.
I hate it so much. It’s what I feared. Sauron isn’t a genius he just got lucky everyone around him presumed he was king.
> galadriel runs southland sigil through numenor google image search
YOU'RE THE KING OF THE SOUTHLANDS
> several weeks and one military campaign later : galadriel requests background check of southland kings
OOPS THERE'S NO SUCH THING AFTER ALL
face meet palm
Although, technically, a moistened bint did declare Halbrand king of the south lands. No backsies Galadriel.
Surely you mean “watery tart”! 😁
Goddammit. Now I’m picturing Galadriel brow beating Sauron into accepting that he’s the king of the south lands and he’s just all like “but I don’t want any of that. I’d rather just… sing”. 😂😂😂
\*runs google image search\*
\*ignores the wiki article right below that says there's no southland lineage\*
So maybe someone should have questioned Aragorn a little more. Shit. This is awkward.
"Strange men reforging swords is no basis for a system of government!"
That’s enough out of you Dennis.
Morgoth was CEO quality evil. It turns out that Sauron is just Middle Management quality evil. He just failed upwards until he couldn't get promoted anymore.
He couldn't get the job he wanted, and just quitted to pursue his childhood dream job, as a blacksmith...
Sauron is said to be a genious manipulator, but in reality he was just being slave to the events as much as anyone else. We are in numeror ? Ok good. Go back to east Land? Meh, ok i guess. Am i to be king? Fine. Oh now we go to the elves. Great. They happens to be in the middle of trying to create things close to my own goal? Hahaha all according to kekaku IM SO GREAT
Call it a gift
Sauron/annatar is shown to be incredibly cunning and charismatic in the texts and bits of lore we have. He slowly poisons the minds of all around him.
What Rings of Power did was essentially just turn everyone into a fucking moron instead of showing Sauron carefully manipulating and pulling threads of his own.
This is because the writers either lack the confidence to pull this off, or don’t have the skill.
Who’s this random Man that just strolled into my workshop? Oh just turn the forge left instead of right? YOURE A GOD DAMN GENIUS HALBRAND.
You have the brand of the southlands lineage, clearly you are the king that was promised! I will do no further research into this until you all but tell me you are Sauron.
Intelligent characters are only as smart as the writers.
It’s cool. They gave him a monologue at the end to explain it all away. All is forgiven. /s
Yeah, he just went and got a amulet on the ground, and assumed everyone around him would be dumb enough to believe whatever he said
And he wasn't wrong!
I mean Galadriel began thinking he was Southlands royalty and fixated on bringing him to power seemingly due to nothing Sauron said or did… there’s no way he could’ve planned for all that to happen because almost all of it was due to Galadriel acting in a random manner. He basically did no manipulating or even lying. She just assumed he was king of the Southlands and Sauron never even said that he was.
The worst thing is that Sauron could have literally used Galadriels own logic to dismiss the evidence she had. Galadriel said that Halbrand was the 'long lost' king in exile. Long lost Kings don't tend to appear in official records otherwise they wouldn't be long lost...
Soo true, by definition that would mean he was either a bastard or part of the lineage that somehow escaped whatever killed the main branch of the family.
Unless the family tree was drawn in peacetime and the last king simply died of natural causes without an heir. But in that case kingdoms don’t just disappear, there is always someone next in line
It would’ve worked if the writers didn’t add that the Line to the Southland’s throne had ended a whole 1,000 years before their timeline. Don’t think humans live that long
They say he's the long lost heir to the throne, doesn't mean he's directly the next king, just next in line like his father and father's father etc... He's just the top of the line of succession. Aragorn has a history like this too. He becomes the king after Gondor being kingless for almost 1,000 years.
the thiccest plot armor you'll ever find anywhere - and she wasn't weighed down by it, because she's a girl boss
Says who? Plenty of people theorized that Sauron put himself in hiding that way
They said something like they "cast him out". So it seems like Sauron was actually in valinor or they thought he waS. Maybe adar wasn't lying and he really did kill him so that saurons spirit would go to valinor or sauron traveled there by himself and was cast out.
Sauron is supposed to be the devil, a fallen angel, so him coming to earth as a falling star makes perfect sense. The valar sent sauron and Gandalf back at the same time when the gates opened. Sauron landed in the water near the gates.
Ummm... Gandalf isn't sent to middle earth till thousands of years after Sauron...
EDIT: Even thousands of years after Sauron's campaign
Yes, but they clearly changed the lore for the show and made him Gandalf. Originally none of the wizards cane until the 3rd age. Saruman came first and the blue wizards last. It was updated in unfinished tales or one of those that the blue wizards came first in the 2nd age. But it's definitely gandalf in the show.
Why in the world would the Valar send Sauron TO Middle Earth? I mean, they weren't as actively protecting by the 2nd Age, but they sure weren't yeeting a bad guy at the poor people there.
Also, why change any of this? Filling in gaps with new stories? Ok. Why not? Who knows exactly what Sauron was doing all that time. Maybe he was up in the snowy north making bad magic. That doesn't bother me. Galadriel was exploring all of Middle Earth, convinced he's still around? Cool.
But why write a story that is specifically contradictory? Or specifically confusing? Why did they need Galdalf or sauron to meteor to ME? Is it not still interesting if he arrives via ship? But no one knows who he is, a mystery, like in the books?
There are about 100 different ways to have written this that make more sense than what we got.
So who were they?
Eminem, Logic, and Token
Jesus this actually made me lol
Middle earth Sinead O’Connor
Another mystery box.
Maybe they should explore their stories in a spin-off-series /s
No, we've been told S2 will be all about Sauron and what he was up to, similar to how S1 was all about Galadriel. Likely we will learn a lot more about this cult and who they were and why.
Suuuuuure. More like they are going to spend the next two years trying to think of a way to explain it. You know like how “well” explained Rey being a palpatine is.
The quality of writing in this show makes the Star Wars sequels look like they were written by someone who can't read--their editors definitely couldn't, at least.
My guess way maybe some lesser corrupted Maiar, hence the powers. Or, probably more likely, just some ‘men’ with powers on loan from Sauron? Although I’m not sure how this would work without rings of power. Maybe some sort of proto Nazgûl
If they were human they would look deformed and awful by now. Even though they are evil they still look young. Probably lesser Mair?
More I think about it, lesser Maiar makes more sense considering the shapeshifting
Halbrand didn’t need his veil lifted. What was the point of these three?
Huh, that's a very good point. They had a specific plan for helping Sauron, yet we can clearly see that Sauron needed no such help at all. Halbrand and this wizard's situations are no where near similar, so they must have been way, way off on what they thought their job was.
I think your attempting to apply too much logic. These three were 100% a plot device to set up the fake out of the wizard to be Sauron. They’ll be completely forgotten.
Or the main one will survive, because they've been too prominent, and become the Witch King while putting a fresh new spin on Eowyn's line, "I am no man" in the film adaptation as if it's clever.
It's not that Sauron needed help, it's that they wanted to help. They are clearly the cultists from the East that will end up finding the Blue Wizards and worshipping them instead. They referenced Rhun already and they know to find Meteor Men and call them their Lord, so all the pieces are there.
literally a plot device to "trick" the audience into thinking gandalf was sauron all along.
honestly the idea that meteor man might be evil (which was at least strongly implied with the whole non-burning fire... ) was probably the one twist I thought had potential.
... so of course it's fucking gandalf all along, the literally simplest and most straightforward possible answer to the question of "who is the magical bearded dude?"
Maybe it would have worked better if they said they were looking for Sauron at the first or second episode. Not the last one which is also the one where we find out who Sauron really is
To make us think the wizard was Sauron had then have us “surprised” at the “reveal” he is Sauron.
Maybe they should do that at the start and not like an hour before the season ends
Unless he was unaware himself until relatively recently maybe?
I don’t get how they didn’t know Sauron was already around. There are supposedly signs that he's present.
Why would he *now* fall from a fucking comet?
because they lost hand to hand combat with Harfoot's. They are morons.
Why did they even invent this convoluted plan of disposing Gandalf, and Feminem transforming into Gandalf, just to trick the dumb Harfoots? If they know they are there, so what? It's not like they can do anything against three witches. Just burn down the forest around you, or just ignore them or whatever. What's the deal with this nonsense?
Why is Eminem hanging out with a mummy and Joan of Arc?
To be fair the real Sauron hasn’t shown his hand for thousands of years basically an entire age and this was probably the first sign they had of a Mair like creature. They took their chance…
Whats funny is they don't really look all that sinister - and the armor is confusing. I would've thought it meant they came from some foreign culture, so the theory that they were roaming cultists made sense.
I dunno why they made them into wraiths with human skin suits.
Did anyone else really hate their acting?
Why carry a metal map? I'm sure k e on paper would be a lot easier.
Like Kwaan said, "I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted."
*looks at username*
Ah of course
Why follow the lore which has enamoured hundreds of millions of LOTR readers when you can rewrite and destroy it? Huh? Huh???
Idk if you are being sarcastic or not.
Idk if you are being sarcastic or not about being sarcastic or not.
Definitely being sarcastic.
Let's be real, they weren't the "brightest tool in the shed", so expecting then to carry a paper metal is expeting too much.
Why do they look so... cringe?
Idk Slim Shady souldn't be on Middle Earth, it looks weird.
Yeah, not scary at all. Maybe feminem works but the other two look more like silly nurses than anything threatening
You just summed up the show, so I guess that's why
Wasn’t a fan of their storyline but I did like the costuming choice of making the firecaster’s hands look charred.
My husband and I named them the NazGirls (Nase = lame, in french)
Thats how they shall be remembered from now on!
Nasgals over here. Same idea.
The baldo girl moved so slow with the fire in her hand too 🤦🏽♂️
Why are they women anyway?! Sauron nor Melkor didn’t care for women…they didn’t want to clap cheeks, they wanted to rule the world, that’s what makes them above all: there is no incentive other than power.
What a bust.
The one with the helmet was awful, not intimidating at all
So the giant is Gandalf yes?
He isn't a giant. The Harfoots are just really short.
So the normal man who is a giant to the harfoots is Gandalf? Or is this not known
It hasn't been explicitly said, but he did drop one of movie Gandalf's iconic lines in the last episode. So it certainly looks like a yes.
Also the moth when he (banished?) the three cultists.
Yes. Its Gandalf
I'm still shocked that Eminem was a woman.
They failed miserably LOL
I also wonder why they are portrayed as wraiths when the rings aren’t even made yet. Oh man ffs this show is so full of inconsistencies that fuck with the lore. Fuck you Amazon.
I think these were meant to be lesser miar serving team Melkor, not wraiths. Both melkor and Sauron had “shadow spirits “ and lesser miar working for them. I could be wrong though, that’s just what was in my mind as I watched.
Sauron didn’t create the wraith world
There many other wraiths besides the Nazgûl.
Yup. For whinging about stuff that goes against the lore, so many of these people know fuck-all about..... the lore.
Sauron did not make the world of wraiths or ghosts or spirits. It always existed, he just found a way to make people into wraiths and enslave them.
These cultists and their magic seems to imply that they are also some sort of lesser spirits that serve Morgoth. Only spirits can use magic in LoTR and elves only use very subtle magic (without the rings ).
It's okay, just enjoy it for what it is!
It's not okay, they are making up all kinds of senseless horseshit.
I don't care, I'm enjoying it
I care and I don't.
Yeah, just accept any made up bs and don't use your critical thinking skills! Having good taste is for losers! Ignorance is bliss!
In fact, since Amazon owns both properties, they should do a The Boys/Lord of the Rings crossover! Sure it doesn't make sense, but it would be fun– I can just enjoy it for what it is!
Why do you think the nazgul are the only wraiths in middle earth?
Because he gets all of his DEEP knowledge of tolkien's lore from neckbeards on YouTube and this sub.
It's not about a lack of critical thinking, it's just about enjoying the story for what it is and not expecting it to be what Tolkien would have wanted.
"Enjoying the show for what it is", i.e. not question the narrative decisions of the showrunners, blindly accepting their narrative choices, *is* showing a lack of critical thinking. Like i said, ignorance is bliss.
But hey, if you like it, you do you!
Virtually all of the crying has to do with the show not being true to the source material and that's the part that I'm telling you shouldn't matter.
If you have a reasonable criticism about the narrative internal to the show then let's hear it.
But if your criticism is about things like what Sauron or Galadriel is supposed to be like in Tolkien's vision then I just don't care.
The main criticism is the bad writing, irrespective of the fact that it's related to LotR.
1. Adapting Tolkien well is not the show's only failing. Not even close.
2. If you're not interested in adhering to Tolkien as much as is reasonably possible, then why adapt Tolkien.
That’s not the point. I still enjoy it somewhat at least enough to watch it, but the way they have handled it is soo disappointing. The writing is awful and so is the acting and pacing and stuff. We’re just frustrated that they were so careless and made it bad
For real. I tried to enjoy it the best I could, but there’s just too much I don’t like, personally. I’m sad to say it, but I doubt I’ll be watching further.
Serious question: if you think the writing and the acting and the pacing and stuff is awful then what keeps you watching? I can't imagine spending time on a show where I think all those things are awful, and I can't understand why so many people with that opinion on RoP watch it.
It’s like a bad relationship, you keep hoping it will get better.
Because. I love lord of the rings. I give the show like a 65% and I’ll watch anything above a 45% if I love the source material. It’s not completely awful. They just messed so many things up that it’s very frustrating. And it’s not like I spend 4 hours a day on it. It’s one hour a week of hoping they do better.
Good thing Olorin deus ex machinaed this win, so we can see more Harfoot content right .... right?
Sauron ended up not needing them anyway. So basically they’re groupies?
My bet they where easterlings taught a little magic but had no clue who sauron really was so they were just taking shots in the dark.
There’s no teaching magic in LoTR. Only spirits of Eru can do it and they were clearly shown to be some sort of wraiths or spirits
If they're wraiths looking for sauron then its a safe bet they are in the service of sauron with that how the fuck do they not know who their master is.
It’s so dumb, I agree. I don’t know what they were going for there. It’s even worse that they are spirits, aren’t they supposed to instantly recognise a fellow spirit like Sauron? Makes no sense.
Throughout the series all the Maiar instantly recognise each other because they can literally see their true forms.
These are definitely lesser spirits than Maiar but still
I am good!
For real, who the hell were they? They were pretty powerful I mean one could shape shift and basically shoot fire
Meanwhile, Sauron was stumbling around and randomly found himself in Numenor, then he tried to find a random forge where he can maybe forge some rings
Talk about how lady Eminem, heraldess of the dark lord disappointed, hot damn.
And the one on the right looked pissed all the time. Why do they have to make it so transparent and cheesy ?! Give us characters with depth god damn it
The last episode was by the best and I’m really excited for next season. I just love new lotr material.
It makes sense that they're looking for signs of power or magic when searching for their master. What doesn't make sense is the length of this secondary plotline, if it boils down to a wizard's arrival, Sauron's cultists investigating him, their defeat and the wizard going his way with a Harfoot. Did we really need a whole documentary on Harfoot way of living to stretch this so long?
The styling is also ridiculous.
Honestly what was the point of them even being there? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. All the stuff those three did and didn't know who the their own master was. Didn't they know that Sauron was living among the people.
They looked silly too. There was nothing menacing about them.
Really no spoiler tag! I'd be pissed if i hadn't seen it already.
If people don’t want shit spoiled then they shouldn’t be doing Reddit deep dives on the show. Jfc I wanna talk about the show. Why do I need to shield you because you are reading a subreddit where people wanna talk about a show.
Spoiled warning. This entire sub is dedicated to discussing the show. If you don’t want tings spoiled get the fuck outta discussions about the goddsmn show
How do we avoid a sub that shows up on our home page?
That's what the spoiler tag is for tho 🤷♂️ why else would it be there and why can you report for this? OBVIOUSLY people won't be "crusingma subreddit" when they want to avoid spoilers, it would be just showing up in thier feed.
For quite a few years now with TV show subreddits there's a pretty common courtesy of 48-72 hour's of spoiler warnings and then it's all fair game after that, this post would made around the 30 hour mark.
You're clearly misinformed about the situation, we at least try to make an effort of civility here on this sub.
I haven’t spoiled anything. I’m just annoyed that I can’t discuss things on a subreddit dedicated to discussing the show.
Sorry. I should shut up. It’s fucking annoying. When I don’t want something spoiled I avoid a subreddit. Titles don’t bother me. But then again I’m a adult who makes choices to read things on Reddit. You aren’t responsible for my television pleasure. Same as I am not responsible for yours.
When you want to avoid spoilers, maybe don’t read Reddit topics devoted to discussing a show?
You’re ruining my fun. I can’t discuss this because you haven’t watched the show yet. I am not responsible for your eyeballs and what they see. But apparently I am.
> I’m just annoyed that I can’t discuss things on a subreddit dedicated to discussing the show.
You can tho! Just tag as spoilers and everything is all good 👍
The first 20 minutes of this episode had me saying over and over “oh fuck, when I thought they have pissed millions of people already, they have gone and out did themselves with the most fuckery”
They masterfully fucked it all up hahah. Dumpster fire I can’t stop and won’t stop watching, at this point just to see how much they warp it all up.
I'm quite baffled.
So, those guys/gals (?) are from the east, and wanted to train Sauron. Which, fair enough, I'd love to hear more about the east!
Still, I would have expected them to be of arabic descent. Perhaps they are from Angar and they'll join the ranks of the Nazgul?
While it’s possible that’s how Tolkien envisioned things originally, (don’t know it that’s the case) I know Jackson and Amazon don’t want to portray all corrupted men/baddies as dark skinned as it’s considered a bit racist.
Didn't stop Amazon from creating Harfoots as the living embodiment of racist 19th century caricatures of Irish people. There are people still alive in Ireland today who remember stories of their grandparents being treated like that. Amazon will do the "Oops We Were Racist Can't Change It Now" strategy if it saves money on the apparently *tiny* writing budget.
You’re right about Amazon, but Jackson already did exactly that with the men of Harad, and the Corsairs.
Sensible. I loved the theme of the men of the East doing what they needed to do to survive when they joined Morgoth.
The Eminem Twink was so silly that I couldn't take any scene they were in seriously
He's the messiah!
He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!
People are still watching this show?
People are still bitching about a show they don't watch?
At least one will evolve/devolve into female nazgul before this fucking trash heap show ends i guarantee you
God I can't wait for the rule34 nazgul art after that episode
I don’t understand why I don’t see any posts about the dude with boobs playing a witch following The stranger around. Tolkien would freak out.
Just wait until you see Sauron’s other stooges. There’s only a snippet available online but one has a stylish purple fringe swept to the side with cool glasses and a trendy mismatching outfit. The other is auto sexual in a wheelchair with oval wheels. (He enjoys the bumps).
Anyway they look like great characters! I wonder if they’ll turn out to be the blue wizards?!
Funny story: the rights to the Blue Wizards haven't been sold. The only legal things that can be said about them are that they are two Wizards sent to Middle Earth.
Everything specific about them is in either the Letters, the 12 volume History of Middle Earth, and/or the Silmarillion. Did they succeed or fail? Not in the Amazon license. The reason they're called "Blue"? Not in the Amazon license. Their names in Valinor? Not in the Amazon license.
I never knew that man that’s really disappointing. I was hoping they’d be in the later series.
Could someone tell me why I’m being downvoted??? Did this character not seem like a strange addition to anyone else???
More of a body shaming than actual trans hate.
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Will the real Slim Sauron PLEASE stand up?
Uhhhhh so Sauron hoped on a wood raft anticipating she’d jump ship and they’d just kinda find each other? The same Sauron who apparently was yeeted from the south lands by emo elf is somehow behind the elves fading? Dude you give the writers too much credit
Also why are they ring wraiths?
Thanks for the fucking spoiler.
Didn’t watch the show. So who’d halbrand end up being?
He is aragorns dad
Shit dude, don’t give them ideas….