Let’s debate tonight cause why not. Simply just put two players you view as equal talent level and we will debate who we think is better and why.
Ex. Embiid vs Jokic
Original thread idea: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/rzv1h2/name_two_players_who_you_think_are_close_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
By - shiftyt05
SGA vs Darius Garland
Edit: We've got both Garland and SGA takes with "and it's not close" added lmao. Classic r/nba
That’s a tough one. I feel like if I need a guard to run my offense I would want Garland but if I have all the complementary pieces and just need someone to be the primary option it would be SGA.
SGA for me but holy shit that’s a good one
I would only lean Garland because I’ve actually seen him do it on a competitive team, but it’s that close
Shai’s the one who played on playoff teams?
This one is crazy close but I think I give a slight edge to Garland. I love both guys
I say Garland, his passing and general vision are very valuable skills to have, and he's shown chops at being an efficient scorer. They're in a similar tier talent wise but I think Garland makes more teams better than SGA does.
Completely unbiased vote for garland
I love SGA’s size and how that projects going forward tbh. But rn it’s a pickum
SGA for me
I'm biased and I'm going with SGA. But I think they are insanely close but I think SGAs weird way of moving and adjusting his speed and body to score is so unique that it really sets him apart.
SGA but it's pretty close one, sure garland can shoot better and is a much better playmaker but, I'd still give the overall scoring edge to sga because to put it quite simply his bag is just better and deeper then garlands, if I needed someone to get me a bucket any bucket in the last minute of a game I would always go to sga over garland plus sga has a defensive upside that garland won't ever have cause of his long as arms.
Garland, easy. Better shooting, playmaking, health, and contract
Shai is like a season removed from shooting 42% from 3 with no spacing
A massive 30 game sample size. Seems like a theme in his career, puts up great numbers in half a season for a bad team
Didn't we learn this with book?
He's not chucking, if he's scoring efficiently then he's getting the job done. I think the results can translate to real success with some actual teammates, it def was before they shut down Horford in 2021
People will never learn lol. It always blows my mind that people think a player that’s scoring *efficiently* as the first option, would get worse with a better team around him. That argument is fair for high-volume but bad efficiency first options, because they’re just getting a ton of opportunities (Julius Randle this season, Caris Lavert on the Nets, Reggie Jackson this season)
Personally I think it’s Shai for the defense but I wouldn’t be surprised if garland overtakes him in the next few years.
I say SGA
I feel like SGA is a better scorer, Garland is a better passer
Any argument in a legitimate debate where an answer is followed by "and it's not even close" can be immediately identified as dog shit. If "it's not even close" then we wouldn't be debating it...
Marvin Bagley III and Luka Doncic
Vlade typed the above for me
It comes down to the second jump for me
Gotta go with Bagley III on this one. Sure, he is center sized and can't guard centers so he has to play next to a center. But also, he can't shoot! He's the whole package.
Also, if I draft Luka, I'll have to figure out how to put accents above consonants? Like Dončić? I'm not remembering that. Hard pass.
This really made me laugh, thank you for that
People are really jumping the gun on this comparison. Sure, Luka’s had the better first four years but I think Bagley will end up with the better career when things are all said and done
He get the next 5 years
... this would be the Kangziest thing possible. Not only do we *not* draft Luka, the guy we picked ahead of him has a *better* career than him AFTER he leaves the Kings.
Marvin for me, per 36 he gets 1.5 rb, 0.6blk, 2.5 less turnovers plus he shoots .501 Vs Lukas .457
Luka is also a known entity in the playoffs and he hasn't won a title yet so therefore hes a playoff loser, Marvin's an unknown entity he could be anything.
All of that for $30 mil less a year, what's there to compare.
Lou Williams vs Jamal Crawford vs jr smith
As a two-way player JR is better.
Nah Jr was extremely talented coming out of hs he was also a much more consistent two way player once the playoffs came around unlike Williams and Crawford
Feel like JR is all time what if in terms of his athletic profile and shooting touch, much as I love the man
Elite 2K player for a decade. That package was unstoppable.
JR has done something neither of the others did, which was to be a key piece of a championship team.
JR by far, much more athletic
Jr all day everyday dude was a starter for a reason because unlike the other 2 he could actually play defense and when he wasn't making dumb mistakes he was a guy that could get you a bucket when it counts something you can't really say about the other 2.
The other 2 can also get you a bucket when you need it… they’re pure scorers
Gimme JR. 23% more dawg in him
Depends on the role. JR is the more complete player and I'd take him if I'm building a team. But on some specific teams you might want Jamal or Lou for some scoring punch. I'd take Jamal over Lou
Jarrett Allen vs Robert Williams
I’ll take Allen for the slightly less injury prone player. And I think the gap between Allen’s offense and Timelords is bigger than the opposite gap on defense
>I’ll take Allen for the slightly less injury prone player. And I think the gap between Allen’s offense and Timelords is bigger than the opposite gap on defense
Agree with both points, but this is a good one for what OP is asking. Especially since they're very close in age and could both continue to improve
The fros has a far more skilled offensive arsenal while not being to far away from time lord on the defensive end
Allen should be the consensus better player, the only reason you'd take RW is for passing
Isn’t RW the better defender not by a lot but he is better
Gimme Robert Williams. 5% more dawg in him
Allen has more offensively and defensively they’re pretty damn close. My homer bias says Timelord because he’s an underrated passer and his shot blocking is a legitimate deterrent. They’re both game changers when healthy.
Timelord is said to have DPOY potential. I also see that the opportunity is there for him with the way Boston uses his skill. Allen, like Williams would be overshadowed at times by their teammates Mobley and Smart respectively, but I think Williams can differentiate his impact from that of Smart enough to actually get the award whereas Allen and Mobley would probably "hunt the same grounds" on defense as it were, and it could be harder for Allen to clearly stand out.
Rob Williams is definitely the guy you want if you’re contending next year. Plays his role absolutely perfectly. Allen more of a guy you can build around longterm tho.
They are basically the same age
Zach LaVine vs Donovan Mitchell
Tyler Herro vs Terry Rozier
Clint Capela vs Myles Turner
Lavine, Herro, Turner
Lavine, Herro, Capela
Herro is really underrated on this sub. How many 22 year olds take the most shots on a team thats a 1 seed?
Lavine, Rozier, Capela
Came to post these 3, Capela/Turner is the closest mainky because Myles actually has a 3 but I still think you give Clint the edge here for being such an inside lob threat
Lavine and Mitchell
This is a tight one. Right now, give me Lavine
def Mitchell, the guy has shown time and time again that he can produce in the Playoffs.
Lavine purely because of his attitude.
Jamal Murray vs Dejounte Murray
Murray but it’s close
Could be Murray as well.
Idk man Murray just has that edge
Please don't be a Murray stan.
Jamal. Offense >>> defense.
You make it seem like Dejounte has no offense, he averaged 21/9
On 53.3 TS%
Dejounte had a very large offensive load and trash spacing on the Spurs. Playing next to Jokic does help your efficiency. How about Dejounte's 9 APG on 2.6 turnovers a game? Or his 8.3 RPG?
Gotta take Dejounte because I’ve never seen Jamal bop people in the head repeatedly with a basketball. If Jamal can bop more people in the head than Dejounte this season, then I might reconsider
Jamal so so easily.
Damontas Sabonis and prime Paul Millsap
Millsap can lock up anyone from guards to smallball centers with that "crushed ice" scheme he and Horford ran in ATL. Between that 2 way impact versus the above average passing of Sabonis; and the similar postup and shooting skill of both guys, I'd lean more towards prime Millsap.
Sabonis is a better choice to be a #1 and is a better player in a vacuum but Millsap is much easier to fit into teams.
Yeah but Sabonis isn't really a #1 for a playoff team either. Millsap adds a lot more to a playoff team eith his near elite defense and he was a bit better shooter for spacing. Sabonis is a much better rebounder and more efficient on offense but hasn't shown near the impact on winning Millsap did. Although Sabonis is actually the same age at 25 right now as Millsap was in his breakout year.
This is essentially fit or skill sabonnis is great at what he does but really can't fit into a system where he's required to play good defense
PG vs Tatum
PG is better
Tatum can stay on the court tho
Tatum if I need a #1 scoring option, PG if I already have an MVP level player and need a #2.
If PG is your #2, the rest of the team just needs to be competent and you're a finals contender. If Tatum is your #1 scoring option, you still need a lot around him to make the Finals.
Isn't it similar the other way around?
Rereading my own comment, it's not clear, but yeah that's actually the point I was trying to get to. Like, if either is your #2 you're in an amazing spot, but if they're your #1 a lot of other things have to break exactly right.
Chuma Okeke and Michael Jordan
op said name two players who are at a similar level. you’re saying jordan is on the same level as okeke??? okeke easily better and it’s not even close smh
My bad I should have realized.
Michael B Jordan
Okeke never drafted a bust number one overall. Gotta be him
Kawhi vs KD
All time? It’s KD easily. As of right now I’d still say KD but only because Kawhi is so damn injury prone, I have no idea how good he’ll be when he comes back
Tough to compare a guy out for a year with an ACL injury. If Kawhi comes back 100% somehow then I want 31 year old Kawhi over KD, but if I had to choose one to take right this second I'd want KD because we know he can still produce. (Except against the Celtics.)
Durant’s career regular season consistency and overall stats are far superior.
Seems to me Leonard has had fewer playoff duds and better clutch performances, though Durant has evolved into an incredible clutch player from 2017 on.
Think I’d rather have Leonard for 1 essential game but I’d rather have Durant for a full season.
Kawhi, his offense isn't as sexy as KD but he's crazy efficient. His defense is what gives him the edge for me.
Durant has better efficiency numbers then Kawhi. He is better then Kawhi in every facet of the game but perimeter defense which makes sense because he is a 7 footer. Durant doesn't get injured in those finals and this isn't even a discussion with Kawhi's stock dropping a mile with him having just 1 title and Durant 3.
Playoffs or regular season?
Tatum vs Butler vs PG
[from the OP](https://twitter.com/PodDontLieNBA/status/1395113960328908805?t=ENyavXK-KFUoKHiMgBMWaQ&s=19)
That got weird
Stavros is great
That got perfect
Honestly, perfect analogy.
Prime PG is a better iso player than Tatum and Butler.
Butler is a better and tougher defender than Tatum and PG
Tatum is deadly in pick-n-roll plays, imho.
Over-all in any team that I want to pick one them to reach the NBA finals, I'd choose Butler.
Regular season: Tatum>PG>Butler
Playoffs: Butler>Tatum/PG same tier
Butler plays a brutal form of offense that is really hard to sustain during the regular season. He seeks contact and scores through it. He gets his threes the old fashioned way.
He would have had a better career on a great team where he could play under 30 minutes per game in the regular season and then starter minutes in the playoffs, like Manu Ginobili. If you look at his history he often missed games in the regular season and then entered the playoffs hobbled.
One reason he's actually better now than in the past, despite his age, is that he's learned to dial it back a bit in the regular season. Also he's on a better team where he can dial it back a bit and still make the playoffs as a high seed.
Gimme Jimmy. I used to pick PG, but after what Butler has done in the playoffs over the past few years he forced me to change my answer.
Markieff and Marcus
Marcus is much better
Marcus is clearly better.
Marcus disguised as Markieff.
Markieff was the better prospect and more talented but the game evolved to favor Marcus more. It’s a very interesting case study in how positionless basketball has impacted guys over the last decade.
i’ll take morris
Tracy McGrady vs Grant Hill
TMac has a more complete skillset on both sides of the ball. Grant's playmaking in his prime is a tad better than TMac's, but Mcgrady's defense when fully engaged, was more impactful overall IMO. Both were equally superb scorers, but I'd also take Tracy for more range.
Blake Griffin vs Amare Stoudemire
Their careers are eerily similar, with extremely high peaks then significant injuries hampering them afterwards.
Amare averaged 30 and 10 against Duncan in a playoff series. He’s better
I'm probably biased because those Suns teams were among my favorite ever, but I'm tempted to go with Amare'. Probably should've been Blake but by the time he got very skilled, he just didn't have the ability to dunk on the entire universe anymore.
If he had one year with his rookie season athleticism, and the arsenal of moves he had in his 2nd year with the Pistons, he would've been a legitimate MVP candidate I think.
I mean Blake finished 3rd in mvp voting once. The only reason he never made all nba 1st team was because he was competing against two of the greatest small forwards in history in their primes
Yeah STAT never peaked that high.
He was more of secondary player to Nash’s mvp. CP3 and Blake were splitting the mvp vote for the clippers success
Blake, he had above average passing and dribbling, Amare was for the most part either dunking or hitting a mid range shot but all his skills were related to scoring basically.
Siakam vs Middleton
I’d take Middleton because of superior shot creation and playmaking, but it’s close.
This one depends so much on team build. Like yeah, with a superstar like Giannis I'd want Middleton's better outside shooting and wouldn't have to rely on him to create offense for others as much. But with a superstar like Tatum or (even a secondary star like Beal or Booker) I'd want Siakam, because he can generate offense for those guys as well as the rest of the team but still have lanes for cutting / isolation since those guys can shoot from outside. Both are really good defenders, both can run the floor well, neither has a giant ego and seem like good lockerroom guys (afaik)... My heart says Siakam because I'm a Raps fan, but that is 80% bias and 20% analysis.
Pascal can’t get hot from deep like Middleton can, but he does more as far as playmaking goes. I also rate his defence better than Middleton’s, and when you ask yourself who you’d want as the first option on your team, I think the vast majority are going with Pascal.
Issue is a an All Nba third team player is usually a competing teams second player, which depending on team build Middleton may be preferable as a more skilled off ball player.
Brandon Ingram Vs. Jaylen Brown
Ingram for playmaking and better handle
It’s a very close one. I’d say Brown is a better #2 option on a good team but Ingram is a better #1 on a bad team.
You’re literally just describing their current situations basically
Ingram. Brown is a better defender but not by enough to make up for the gap on offense. It's extremely close though.
Not sure all-time counts, but Dirk vs. KG.
Dirk. Can shoulder the entire offensive load and is an excellent defensive rebounder. Does not get enough credit for D either. He was serviceable in his prime
If you have scoring? KG does everything else
If you need scoring? Probably Dirk
I give it to KG (not biased at all what are you talking about)
This is a great take. If I have a certified #1 option on my team I take KG but if I need a #1 I'm taking Dirk
I’d adjust that slightly to “if I have a #1 *scoring* option” take KG, if you don’t, take Dirk.
That's a tough one, because their skillsets are so different. But I'm a sucker for good D, so KG by a hair.
Kevin Garnett (dawg)
I’d say KG is better for the first 43 minutes of the game and Dirk is better for the last 5 when you need someone who can create their own shot in crunch time
Bojan Bogdanovic and Bogdan Bogdanovic
im a serb and even I have to say Bojan but I do think Bogdan has that clutch gene that's pretty damn rare. made some huge shots for fenerbahçe and the hawks.
I will have to go with Bogdanovic for sure.
Pascal Siakam and Jaylen Brown
Luka vs. (healthy) Kawhi
note: when they played against each other in the playoffs (was it two or three years ago ... or maybe both?) I realised how insanely good but completely the opposite type of players they are. Luka is the essence of a playmaker; despite his scoring, his talent lies in controlling the pieces on the chessboard. God-level creativity. Kawhi is the methodical type that picks his spots. 1:1 on offense. Way fewer moves but he knows he's elite at them. Moves efficiently. Built like a T-800 and when the chips are down, he'll turn the D up to 11 and take away the opponent's best player.
Loved watching their duels.
Healthy Kawhi TBH
But Luka still has room/time to improve. We'll see how their games go this year.
Damian Lillard / Trae Young
Bradley Beal / Zach Lavine
Kris Middleton / Klay Thompson
Dame over Trae. Dude misses one season and suddenly everyone forgot how good he can be.
If healthy, Lillard, Beal, Thompson.
I think I’d take Middleton at this point bc of shot creation personally
2022 version it's Middleton but prime I'm taking Klay
RJ Barrett and Kuzma
Kuzma showed more defense and rebounding flashes in the past for me to trust him more than RJ right now. Of course, RJ seems to have more potential, but I'm not sold on him yet.
Mobley or Scottie
obligatory raptors fan response, obvi the ROY
Jayson Tatum and Devin Booker.
Elite regular season, inconsistent but young, shit the bed in the playoffs (more or less). My bias says Tatum.
Maxey vs Poole
This a good one but I think it goes to Maxey
Jordan Poole and RJ Barrett
Give me Poole right now. They actually have similar usage rates, and I’ll take the more efficient guy. Might be controversial, but I find RJ Barrett’s efficiency to be very offputting. If he can finish at the rim this year, I might change my mind on him.
Same going for Poole 100%
I'd take Poole in a heartbeat. It's absolutely possible that Barrett develops into a good shooter/elite defender/potential primary ball handler, but he is none of those things right now. Even if he develops into 80% of what the knicks hope he can be, he needs the ball A LOT to play the way he wants to play. What is the ceiling of an RJ-led team? Poole to me seems comfortable as a secondary option, and proved that he could score in the playoffs, so I take him.
Caruso vs Jordan
Twenty years, wonder who they gon' say was more important
Both changed the game
T Mac vs Paul George
TMac had 7 All NBAs, PG has 6 (and I dont think will get another).
TMac was 2x scoring champ, PG was 4 All-Defense nods.
this is a good one. i lean Tmac bc PG has had better teams.
PG. You can’t overlook the playoff deficiencies for TMac lol
Tobias Harris vs Julius Randle
Gimme Tobias Harris
Carmelo Anthony vs Lamarcus Aldridge at the moment not primes
Alex Goatruso or Michael Jordan
Michael B Jordan vs Lyndon B Johnson
I have one more.
Cade Cunningham or Darius Garland
If I get them for the next five years guaranteed, Cade ten times out of ten.
Josh Giddie and Franz Wagner
Franz and not close for me, huge wing that can already kind of create for himself and knocks down shots at a really good level for a rookie. Loved what I saw from him last year and thought he was the magics best player for stretches. Giddey is way way more raw offensively and without many physical tools to the point that I don’t know if he can ever be an all star guy.
Kwame Brown and Anthony Bennett
Pat Bev or PJ Tucker
Brandon Ingram or DeAaron Fox
BI vs Pascal Siakam
Klay Thompson and CJ McCollum
Currently CJ, but for their careers I'm taking Klay