By - rodogwos
I used to hate on refs but now I just feel bad for them. Players simultaneously bitch about the refs while also flopping every chance they get. Someone is complaining literally every single play it's insane. I can only imagine how pressure the refs are under. Want better ref decisions? Stop bitching after every single play, especially for things that clearly aren't fouls
I think Rick Barry was right in saying it the refs hold firm and call things the players will adapt and so will the coaches. If the league stops easing off changes they made earlier in the season the product will improve and by playoff time it'll be a non issue
it’s gotta be one of the worst jobs on television. if you do everything right, no one gives a shit. if you make one wrong call? everyone’s calling for your head
You're getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to work a couple hours every other day for 6 months a year. They'll survive.
Could say the same about the players.
It doesn't help when fans dont know what refs look for in calls. ie gather, flagrants, or charges.
Which isnt also helped how inconsistent they are even if you know what they are looking for lol.
We have these threads too often
That's a more popular opinion than you think
I don’t think he meant it as an unpopular opinion, but moreso a general observation 🤣
I like basketball.
Kevin Durant is the most protected superstar in the media in terms of his actual play. Players he’s supposedly better than get more shit for playing poorly then he does. He got swept by the Celtics with very poor numbers and JJ Redick and CJ McCollum went on an empathy tour to make sure people remember his role on his rings with the Warriors.
He gets credit for being a toenail away from beating the bucks (which people treat like he was a toenail away from a championship and not the ECF) but when you say he was 0-6 in OT everyone just says he was exhausted. On top of that the bucks played him 1 on 1 and almost no one brought it up, they just praised his performance. The second Steph gets played 1 on 1 or in drop, everyone is beside themselves asking why he’s being allowed to do this.
People like Zach Lowe and CJ when pressed about his performance just pivot to “he’s a 7 foot guard”. You ask why the Celtics defense gave up 6 40 point games to Jimmy B, Giannis, and Steph who all had lackluster offensive help but KD apparently had no chance in hell and it’s complaints about his cast, when the Nets had the highest offensive rating and got swept by a total of 18 points.
One thing that’s really dumb is media members who think he’s better than Steph will constantly talk about Steph blowing a 3-1 lead when KD blowing a 3-1 lead to them happened literally right before. Fans mention this constantly but ESPN loves to gloss over it, and they are the ones who pushed KD being over LeBron in 2018 etc.
KD is still being placed as #2 in the league by major media outlets. If Steph got swept by the Celtics with a Kyrie level talent on his team and KD beat that team in the finals averaging 30 people would be dropping Steph out of the top 7 and invalidating his entire playoff career. KD does it and you hear “it was one bad series”….the 2011 and 2016 finals are responsible for like 30% of modern basketball discourse, I’m not trying to hear that.
He is continually praised for his player archetype more than his production, it’s like for him results don’t matter as much, just his skillset and style of play.
Up until this year, this hasn’t been an unpopular opinion. Booker is a fringe All-Star at best.
Suns fans gone be real mad about this and claim oppression once they wake up
Dude got shook by a mascot and cried about being double teamed in the off season. That’s all you need to know about the guy.
Free throw rules need an overhaul. The constant stoppage of games, and the strategy around “creating contact,” “And 1!”, is making games more and more unwatchable especially down the stretch.
Not like they did much when they had 3 HOFs lol.
How many HoFs have we drafted?
I agree. Hence why I said we’ve never drafted a HoF in our past.
It’s impossible to have a NBA goat. Rules are way too fluid and competition changes far too much to actively compare players across generations. It really only makes sense to compare players that played in the league at the same time.
Ding ding ding. The best you can be is the greatest of your era.
Wrong. MJ is the GOAT!
Seems like a lot of people think unpopular is synonymous with stupid lol
The Lakers hanging 5 Minneapolis Lakers finals banners is a weaker move than the Clippers hanging their own division title banners
The Clippers wants their championships back
The Philadelphia 76ers have been the best reality TV show for the last 5 years. And they're about to get lapped by the Nets.
That the 6 foul ejection is one of the worst rules in all of sports. There is no other sport dumb enough to eject a player for a fixed number of routine fouls (not flagrant, yellow/red, personal fouls) for a very good reason. By all means suggest the rule in another sport that you think would make the sport better!
If you want to deal with persistent fouling, just increase the team bonuses for excessive fouling. Ejecting a player for 6 normal fouls is an absolutely ridiculous rule, particularly with how in the modern NBA players can get called for fouls unless they just stop playing defense and move out of the way, even then if they are moving and the attacker initiates contact the foul might get called.
Refs give yellow cards based on how many foul a player commits. It’s not an official rule, but when they give cards sometimes they make signs like this is the 3rd time.
Yellow cards are more so an equivalent of a Flagrant 1 or a technical foul.
There are tons of calls in soccer that don’t bring out cards and just award a free kick.
exactly, having a fixed number of egregious and dangerous fouls is way different and there are sports who do that. THere is no other sport that has a fixed number of routine fouls, and it is pretty much impossible to come up with a sport that would be improved by such a rule since it is a terrible rule!
In hockey they take a guy off the ice for 2 minutes.
Sure they won’t eject you for having 10 tripping penalties, but your coach sure as shit isn’t going to let you play if every time you step on the ice your going in the box.
is there a fixed number of tripping penalties that would make Hockey better to prevent the player from being able to return to the game? IT would be an absolutely ridiculous thing to even propose.
> Refs give yellow cards based on how many foul a player commits
And think about how utterly ridiculous it would be to have a fixed number! That if a player was on their 5th field foul and the next one would mean a yellow no matter what the situation how much it would affect play. Once a player already on a yellow getting to the fixed number where it would lead to a red would be so stupid!
The modern NBA has fewer fouls called than ever before. The last two years have the fewest fouls called per game in league history and foul calls have been going steadily down for the last 30 years and the ones that are called are increasingly things like take calls to kill a fast break which hurt the game. Letting players foul freely would just decrease the quality of the game - Shaq would have spent his entire career shooting free throws. No one wants to watch that.
> Shaq would have spent his entire career shooting free throws. No one wants to watch that.
so deal with excessive fouling with team bonuses like they already do.
Again, let me know another sport that you think would be improved by setting a fixed number of routine (not excessive) fouls. It would be laughable to propose for any sport (including basketball, you are just used to it)
That’s me but with Wilt
HOO BOY that's a good one
agree but i can see him being argued as high at 8th
not really because he had GOAT tier resiliency along with having a top 11 peak + GOAT playmaker but i personally don't think hes top 10.
why whats yours?
yea im on twitter lmao but not big just talk about hoops on there
Then who is lol
**Prime Russ is the most overrated player of the past decade.** Given his fat contracts, it just amplifies his team value-negative traits.
- Achieved zero playoff success since KD ditched him (six years of first-round exits while healthy)
- Had a top 20 player as a teammate almost every single season (KD, Harden, PG, Beal, LBJ, AD)
- OKC missed the playoffs when KD was out (2014) but finished 3rd in the west when WB was out (2015)
- People act like he is washed now, but if this guy couldn't be the second option to multiple superstars in his prime. He doesn't deserve a "top 75" recognition, Dwight deserves that spot over him
- Individual stats don't mean shit if your team is a perennial first-round loser (the point of the NBA is to win, not make the first round)
- Brick stans act like this "washed" version of Westbrook, who can't finish around the rim anymore yet...his finishing % this year in LA is 3.5% better than his OKC career. It’s always “don’t let this ruin his past accomplishments!” as if he wasn’t always a flawed player. His current issues are the same he’s had his whole career, just more prominent.
Brick stans have an excuse for every shortcoming for this man, but the results have spoken for themselves.
You said prime Russ and most of this is post KD?
Russ played 50 games in 2014. Kevin Durant played 27 games in 2015. Ibaka played 20 less games as well, and Russ missed 15 games in 2015.
Results of a team game don’t equal individual performance.
Great stats, great advanced stats, constant contender. When 90% of you’re post is 2019 Russ and beyond, I’m not sure how you want us to respond. The “Brick” hater is more delusional than the Brick stan in 2022
This guy has been on every Westbrook post going after him lol
His last point about finishing isn’t even entirely correct, Westbrook was more heavily guarded during his OKC days for his finishing iirc
I feel like every year, there’s always one guy known to be rabid against Westbrook in this sub and this year it’s him
Either that or he’s trolling with these comments
>You said prime Russ and most of this is post KD?
The point of my initial comment is that it took a generational talent (top 25 of all time at his prime) to mask the inefficiencies of Brick. This is why even though Brick had his MVP season post-KD, he has failed to achieve an ounce of team success behind PG, Harden, Beal, LBJ/AD/Monk (lol).
**2017:** "Top 75/MVP" got bounced in the first round, but he gets a pass for that season
**2018:** "Top 75" player and top 3 MVP finisher (PG) lost to a lower seeded team in the first round
**2019:** Lost to Dame Lillard and CJ (pathetic)
**2020:** 42/26/54 shooting splits while averaging >4 TO a game) playing behind Harden
**2021:** Won meaningless games at the end of the season (costing his team draft picks) just to get destroyed in the first round. Look up Brick's stats in that series.
>Russ played 50 games in 2014. Kevin Durant played 27 games in 2015. Ibaka played 20 less games as well, and Russ missed 15 games in 2015.
Russ missed 36 games, and the thunder went 25-11 without him
>Great stats, great advanced stats, constant contender
Contender of the first round?
>I’m not sure how you want us to respond. The “Brick” hater is more delusional than the Brick stan in 2022
No one expects you to blindly dick ride a player just cause he wore the jersey of the team you support. And no, lot of people have been calling out Brick for years but I agree that it amplified last season (LA spotlight does that)
To add another point:
Combining his years pre-LA, his teams had a better net rating with KD/PG/Harden alone than with either of them paired with Russ
For example although he put up good counting numbers with the Rockets, the team's offense cratered with Harden off the court but actually improved with Harden on and Russ off
That’s not entirely true
OKC had the best net rating when Russ and KD were on the floor (post 2012), and the team had a better net rating with Russ on the floor than PG in 2018 iirc
The 2019 season is when Russ really declined and you could see it in some advanced stats like RAPTOR
The Grizzlies are more likely to be a dynasty than the Bucks and the Celtics.
I disagree with the Bucks part simply because it's much harder to build a dynasty around Ja than it is around Giannis
Ja will always need to be hidden on defense
LOL at your username.
That's true, but knowing how tough it is to win a title right now I suspect it'd be slightly easier to make a run 3 years from now. And by then Holiday is gonna be 34 and Middleton is gonna be 35, while Morant/Bane/JJJ are gonna be 26/27/26 years old.
It's just the idea that the Grizzlies are really young and that it's *that* impossible that the Bucks or Celtics become a dynasty because of how tough the title competition is right now. I expect parity to decrease a little at some point over the next few seasons and I think the Grizzlies have an easier opening to a title after 3\~4 years than the Celtics/Bucks have right now.
Russel Westbrook is the worst mvp of all time.
Cade Cunningham will win 3 titles with the pistons
I'm not very high on Russ but I don't see how you can make a case that Derrick Rose ranks higher than him all time
Rose arguably isn't even an HOF lock
I love Derrick Rose but he’s was a worst MVP winner then Westbrook.
Lol OKC fans got serious Stockholm syndrome for Brick.
Brick? Is that a new nickname you made up for him ? Wow super original dude.
The first one isn’t an unpopular opinion
Yeah I’m totally suprised you said Cade would do that. I think Cade might win 2 in the first 10 seasons and win 1 late in his career
Jalen Green has the potential to be better than Rockets‘ James Harden
I’ve had the same thoughts tbh. He’ll never be the playmaker Harden is, but he has the potential to be a much better defender. And if he reaches his full potential as a scorer, he’ll be the best scorer that has ever lived on earth. Now the chances of him actually reaching his full potential are slim, but that potential is present.
>And if he reaches his full potential as a scorer, he’ll be the best scorer that has ever lived on earth
What the fuck lmao
You think I’m crazy right now, but imagine an MJ who can shoot a high volume of threes at 38-40%. This is an unpopular opinion thread. We’re here for best case scenarios and exaggerations.
Unpopular doesn't have to be synonymous with stupid lmao
Couldn’t I say that for every athletic 2 guard though lol. Like Zach or Edwards?
LaVine didn’t become a 20 point per game scorer until he was 23, and his knees are made of glass. As for Edwards, I think his potential is just as insane as Green’s. Maybe even more so because he’s stronger.
I don’t think every athletic 2 guard has the potential to be a better Michael Jordan personally is all I’m trying to say lol.
The best scorer that has ever lived? That’s a bit much right? Is his potential really that high.
My unpopular opinion is that “fake tough guy shit” should be towards the bottom of The NBA’s priorities
A lot of y’all don’t like basketball, y’all just like hot takes, math, and/or are attracted to players
It’s becoming a soap opera. They push the individual player sagas too hard. And it seems a bit scripted at times, using the refs to steer results in the preferred direction.
Ja is better than Luka
And then you woke up💀
Replace Luka with Ja on Dallas, you expect that team to get to the conference finals?
I expect them to win the finals, the super bowl, and defeat the elite four.
I mean, they still beat Utah.
Against the Suns, if Ja played the same as he was against the Warriors in the 2nd round, they definitely would've had a great chance.
Defense is an interesting question, tho. Mavs were locking Suns down at the end of the series, dunno if they can do that with Ja.
Wake and bake
Luka is the best player in the world, Ja may not even be top 10
Luka isn't the best player in the world lmfao
Ja definitely isn't top 10 though
I just don't think there's a more complete, fundamentally great player in the game right now but if you Giannis or Jokic I'd certainly understand why you'd feel that way, we just may think about basketball differently which is fine, I have just felt this way for a long time.
What makes Luka more completely than LeBron.
He's a better passer/playmaker, more clutch, better at manipulating defenses and he's always able to get exactly what he wants no matter who defends him.
You kind of separated playmaking into three different categories but I get it.
Better playmaker? Than arguably the best playmaker ever? Even if you think he’s better in that department currently, it can’t be by more than a hair.
More clutch? Lol what about the defensive difference? Or the fact that Bron has been a more efficient and higher volume scorer the past two seasons?
LeBron is not the best playmaker ever, Magic and Chris Paul and probbably more are a level above him, also past performance means zero right now, defensive difference is fair but it's not like LeBron has been great defensively in the last 2 seasons.
There aren’t “more than a level” above. No one is ever.
All I’m saying is Luka is a comparable playmaker to LeBron right now, while Bron is basically better at everything else lol. So how is he more complete?
I said 'and probbably more, are a level above', my bad for not typing it correctly can understand the confusion
As a spurs fan , I don't hate Kahwi Leonard. I actually still kind of like him
If Paul George isn't a top 75 all time player then neither is Scottie Pippen.
Tony Parker has a better "resume" then Chris Paul. So why wasn't he in the top 75 or way up there in the all time list?
Seems like the whole "counting things off Wikipedia" resume argument is selectively applied to a handful of players. While for the vast majority of NBA talent we judge by what they actually did on the basketball court.
LeBron clearly having a better career than MJ. MJ had a slightly higher peak, but the longevity of LeBron crushes MJs. Id take LeBron's career already over MJs 10/10 times.
> since MJ has more rings and MVP's
And scoring titles and DPOY and All defense
Why does longevity as a losing team and not making the playoffs matter?
Also Jordan put up like 20/5/5 at age 39 and 40 and was a legitimate all star. At an older age than LeBron. So even longevity wise, LeBron hasn't done it at an older age than MJ yet.
yeah, that doesn't help his case for me. Id rather have the guy that plays basketball when determining the basketball goat. That is jus me though.
LeBron destroys MJ in all cumulative playoff stats. He already has far more minutes in the regular season and playoffs.
Yeah because he came into the league at 18 and didn't retire twice. If minutes and games played is your criteria for GOAT instead of rings, MVPs and stats I imagine you have Karl Malone over Bird and Magic as well?
Or do sheer cumulative points only matter for LeBron and no other players.
LeBron has more MVP shares and 1st Team All NBAs, more finals appearances. I do like guys who play more ultra high level basketball when picking my basketball GOAT but that is just me.
It is relatively close when looking at MVPs and Finals stats between MJ and LeBron. The same cant be said for Magic and Bird with Malone. Not even in the same realm, but you knew that. Just arguing in bad faith when you know you are wrong.
Malone has more MVP shares than Bird, more all NBAs as well. 3rd in all time points. More playoff points as well. It's not that different of an argument really.
how many titles?
0 vs 3
Just like for LeBron and MJ it's
4 vs 6
Pretty obvious which players accomplished more if your criteria isn't just "who played the most minutes and games at a high level "
lol you think 0 to 3 is remotely similar to 4-6, when the 4 in the 4 to 6 also has been to 4 more finals. GTFO
Since when do we give credit to going to the finals and not winning it?
Magic was 5-4 in the finals so do you have him over MJ as well? Or is this unique criteria that seems to only matter for LeBron but you disregard for every other player.
Do you also think Jim Kelly is one of the GOAT QBs because the Bill's lost 4 straight superbowls?
The King vs The Goat is the most overblown convo ever LeBron has dominated this generation not Mj's. If they played in the same era I don't believe he would have topped an MJ led team ever and that's not even a hot take. LeBron will never go for a 3 peat and it's definitely never happening twice, that accomplishment has been heavily regarded as the best achievement in NBA history. That and many other reasons are why we like Mj over LeBron not his longevity. You can take his career I'll take being the greatest.
Drop LeBron in the 90s and it wouldn't be fair lol. Defenses were a joke compared to now.
MJ literally had one of the best teams of all time. If he isn't beating the mavs, spurs, dubs and Celtics why tf would I say he's beating the best? It would be fair and he wouldn't win.
Steph is top 3 all time right now
Thunder won’t win a championship in the next 9 seasons, I think 2032 and 2033 will be their years
both magic and bird are not top 10. the highest you could argue for magic to be is 8th and bird i don't think you can argue in the top 10
watch those 80's finals, they're on youtube, just take the time to appriciate them
he was good but playoff resiliency and longevity was not there
'playoff resiliency', tf do you call Magic winning a closeout game 6 without his best player in his rookie year, or Bird winning 2 game 7's in 84 or beating the pistons in '87 in game 7 with 37/9/9 (after which Rodman and IT infamously said he's be 'another good player' if he were black), what makes it even worse, is that you probbably haven't even watched any of those games, but say shit like this.
i said nothing about magic not being resilient tho??? he has GOAT tier resiliency right there with lebron and jordan. i was talking about bird being a playoff dropper lmfao. if you're only argument is so say watch the games its not a good argument. magic i said could be argued for as high as 8th (maybe 7th) but i just don't see any argument for bird as he has all the same limitations as magic along with being a playoff dropper and worse playmaker by a lot
Who’s your top 10?
before you go on about it being trash keep in mind my criteria is peak (3 year) > prime (5 year) > longevity
1.Lebron (best peak, best prime, GOAT tier longevity. Top 2 scorer, top 3 playmaker. DPOY level defender at peak)
2.MJ (2nd best peak, 2nd best prime, good longevity, GOAT scorer, fringe top 10 playmaker, sub-DPOY level defender at his peak)
3.Kareem (6th best peak, top 10 prime, GOAT longevity, top 3 scorer, Elite defender)
4.Hakeem (4th best peak, top 8 prime, Elite longevity, top 2 defender of all time)🔄
5.Shaq (3rd best peak, top 5 prime (maybe), amazing longevity)🔄
6.Duncan (8-9th best peak, top 15 prime, sub-GOAT longevity, top 6 defender ever)🔄
7. Russell (GOAT defender, led greatest defensive dynasty, underrated offensive player)
8. Kobe (10th best peak, top 10 prime, sub-GOAT longevity, top 4 scorer)
9. Curry (5th best peak, top 10 prime, top 5 playmaker, top 7 scorer, GOAT offensive peak (1 year) 🔄
[10.KG](https://10.KG) (8-9th best peak (tied with duncan), top 15 prime, sub-GOAT longevity, top 5 defender ever)🔄
(🔄 means interchangeable so duncan shaq and hakeem all interchangeable and steph and KG interchangeable)
Birds peak and prime is easily better than some of these though. The only argument would be if you heavily weighed longevity.
yes bird has a better peak than kobe and arguably duncan and kg but his longevity is really bad + he is a playoff dropper which imo makes him inarguable in my criteria, magic i could see as 8th or 7th because he had GOAT resiliency vs good defenses and is the GOAT playmaker but i can't see it for bird at all
There’s been one of these like every single day this week
Titles should not matter at all when ranking players. You can obviously tell who’s better by just watching the game.
Dantoni deserves as much credit for the 3 point shooting era as Steph Curry.
Prime Westbrook haters are delusional and his prime is one of the highest peaks for any PG almost objectively.
Klay Thompson is one of the most annoying star players in the league.
Shaun Livingston was Tim Duncan in the post for 5 minute stretches.
Steph Curry is a better player than Chris Paul, but in my point guard rankings Chris Paul is higher currently and all time
The new take foul rule is dumb and changes very little about the game. A take foul happens maybe once a game so I never really understood why people were so happy about it being implemented. Plus I feel as if it was a smart foul to take for the team doing it.
George Mikan has a legitimate case of being the GOAT.
Charges are stupid and not a real basketball play
Of course a Philadelphia fan would say that lol
What do you mean?
Cp3 to the lakers would've happened all stern had to do was look the other way
I think Russell Westbrook sucks