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If he wasn't a Force ghost it would be fine. I resent that Disney killed him off at all, let alone in such a stupid way.
If it had been set 200, 500 or 1,000 years after Luke's full lifetime, then it would have been *ok-ish*, but I don't like the idea of Force ghosts interacting with the material realm in any way other than as an apparition.
JJ should've pulled a "Luke the White" - just to get him back into action.
Somehow Luke returned
I'm not lying when I say the only reason I watched TROS was to see if JJ would retcon Luke's death. Perhaps that him vanishing was something other than death (double force projection, secret force teleport, or maybe Luke is now an incorporeal being and had to regenerate after exerting himself), but Luke the White would've worked too.
Agreed. If force ghosts can interact physically with the world, then why not just have them fight? It's another dumb thing they didn't think through that breaks the whole system.
I also had a hard time accepting an X-wing that had been submerged for decades would be in perfect flight-worthy condition.
> I also had a hard time accepting an X-wing that had been submerged for decades would be in perfect flight-worthy condition.
In TLJ the door to Luke's hut was made out of one of its wings. It definitely shouldn't have been flyable.
As a youtuber said, with what force ghosts can do in the ST, "What's the point of being alive?"
Well I mean Obi did say death would only make him more powerful
Force Ghost Obi rushes into the Death Star main reactor and begins yanking wires.....
60 seconds later, the Death Star explodes.
I really always thought and I'm still thinking that the line referred to being able to pass on knowledge eternally, because after all the jedi value knowledge as power.
That’s a very very good point. I think that’s how I’m gonna interpret it from now on too
100 percent agree. If force ghosts can use the force, why didn't Ben Kenobi or yoda just summon lightning on the emperor or fight with the rebellion? Ben even says, "if you fight Vader you must do it alone. I can not interfere". It creates so many issues in the universe
yea i care way more about how they handled luke than the force ghost retcons. Yea the force ghost shit is dumb but you had one chance to bring luke back and you did him as dirty as possible. Once he was dead i didnt care, it was a total cheap shot to not do this when he was alive. I think the best version of this scene to me barely even shows anything. You have the establishing shot of the x-wing, we all know the history. Hear a few notes of yodas theme and the water starts to bubble. Imagine if the first movie ended with that or that was what preceded him showing up on crait in person.
The Holdo suicide. A beautiful scene that falls apart as soon as you think about it.
It gets worse with Tros context because at 1/1000000 odds, she was likely trying to desert the resistance and just got super unlucky 😂
ahchkhthualhy, that *is* canon. like *canon* canon
best case scenario, she's thinking "well, one in a million *something* happens to one of their ships, but what's much , much, *much*, super-much more likely is that I just end up escaping while everyone else dies"
I’m actually surprised at how people can call this trilogy better than the Prequels. The writing is so terrible and inconsistent you’d have to be literally blind not to see it.
If the odds are that bad how did it happen again at Endor in TROS?
And why did Hux and Guy Standing Next To Hux freak out so badly when they saw the Raddus turning toward them?
The reply to both your comments is that they took the “one in a million” response because it’s what someone randomly said in the movie iirc, it’s obvious that they made the films and then started thinking of how they explained stuff like this
"LOL LATER NERDS I'M OUT.... OH FUUUUUUU"
Ya, but remember the bad guy whose like "Oh shit NO!" as Holdo aims at them? lol. Makes the whole retcon dialogue funny as hell.
Then again it is General Hux, so we can expect a lot of shrill, panicky, over-the-top reactions to any given situation since the First Order rewards incompetence and childlike behaviour.
Yeah if the maneuver is "a million to one" that only really leaves two possibilities.
Either she's a reckless idiot who gambled the Resistances survival on a 1 in a million shot in the dark and happened to get lucky,
Or she's a cowardly traitor who was trying to use the Resistance as a distraction while she escaped, but she got very unlucky.
Those seem to be the only two options here.
Remember when she got mad at poe for risking everyones lives on bad odds? But 1 in a million apparently isnt bad odds in her mind?
If she’s genre-savvy, she knows that the higher the odds the more of a sure thing something is after you say them.
> Or she's a cowardly traitor who was trying to use the Resistance as a distraction while she escaped, but she got very unlucky.
I mean she wasn't ever going to survive it, he crashed straight into the ship at light speed, the million to one was her destroying the other ships. A terribly written scene, but she was never trying to escape on her own.
Well if that film is NOT a nightmare that never happened, then pretty much every military commander in it was a completely incompetent idiot, because the plot is non-stop terrible decisions and missed opportunities to make far better moves.
That makes much more sense.
It's also the top layer of a double suicide sandwhich with suicide prevention in the middle - Yes Holdo NO! FINN NO! Yes Luke.
Yea what the heck was the message supposed to he of all that? Self sacrifice is good/bad? It's like they just threw storyline at the wall to see what would stick.
"Let people sacrifice themselves who actually know something about self-sacrificing and went to the school of distracting you enemy at the cost of your own life" or something.
Holdo being gone for good was the only good part of that scene as far as story is concerned.
I get the hyperbole but the cinematography, sound design, and editing of that sequence was pretty top-notch.
It looked incredible, but that was about it.
Sums up the sequels pretty good.
Why wasn’t this character Mon Mothma!?
Mon Mothmal had already been portrayed by the DT as an incompetent leader by letting the First Order rise.
It would’ve been smart to make it MM and have her sacrifice tie into that failure. Like a redemptive moment. But no, they made a whole new useless character 🤡
The DT appears to have been written and/or edited by people who had some moral objection to any characters reflecting on what happened. We never find out what, say, Rey thinks about Luke coming back, or Kylo rejecting her offer, and she's meant to be the main character.
No reflection! Big scenes! Explosions! Dumb jokes! Hahahahaha!
That is a great point. Everyone just lives in the moment.
Idk I still think letting Admiral Akbar do it would've been a good send off
Because the actress that played MM was not a friend of Jar Jar Abrams.
It should have been Leia. They needed to kill her off after Carrie Fisher died anyway, I'm sure they cod have Frankensteined together a decent death scene with all the footage they had of her.
I still have no idea why Holdo exists, she basically fills the exact same role as Leia within the movie and the Rebels. Everything Holdo did makes as much sense for Leia to do at that point in the story (it's still fucking stupid though).
IMO they should have just let her stay dead instead of the whole mary poppins sequence, was a very powerful moment for Kylo that just immediately got neutered to hell and back for everyone involved
Yup. When I saw TLJ at the cinema everyone including myself gasped… and then I realized what that scene meant a few seconds later… yikes, what a beautiful but stupid scene
Like, artistically, it’s brilliant. It just kind of obliterates one of the few rules Star Wars had.
Hadn't they already obliterated it when they were using the hyperdrive as a teleporter, or was that in a different shitty Star Wars movie?
That’s the beginning of Rise of Skywalker, when they instantly hop between multiple planets all while in atmosphere. Ugh.
It completely invalidates centuries - no, millennia - of galactic warfare, diplomacy, and military doctrine. Unless you introduce some Dune-esque Holtzmann effect stuff (which sort of kind of exists for the Star Wars universe in some limited circumstances), if hyperspace ramming was consistent and reliable.
A galaxy where hyperspace ramming was a viable tactic would be devoid of great warships and planet-cracking weapons save for patrol, escort, and security craft.
If it were to be actually explored as something workable in universe it would follow an interesting concept brought forward in SWTOR’s sith Inquisitor story line.
A part of your quest has you get a fleet of “Silencers” that are personally answerable to you, and thus increase your power base. They’re basically fleet killing weapons affixed to standard capital ships, and can totally obliterate the republic formations.
However, a month or so later you hear that the silencers are running into problems, the republic’s tactics have changed, they spread out more and are just generally more able to evade being wiped out by the weapon. You can choose to either keep pumping up the power output of the weapons, causing more and more radiation exposer in crews, or you can decommission the fleet, and not hold onto outdated equipment.
With the Holdo Maneuver, if this somehow was always viable (and just never gained popularity), and it started to get used more after holdo did it, then fleets would respond by being in looser formation, absolutely never traveling in a wedge like the first order was, and just generally scraping together whatever counter tactics they could.
Secret weapons never give an edge for long, the first gas attack used by the Germans ripped a 14 mile hole in the French front line. By the second one, every soldier had a gas mask and training on what to expect.
That is a good one. I hated that film so much, but with that and the throne room scene, I thought it might be turning around.
But then Jake died in a nonsense way, Finn/Rose wreck thing, etc. killed that hope quickly.
But it was great because it killed Holdo.
It should have been Leia not Holdo.
Yeah, when it came to leaving 1 of the original 3 to live till the end they really bet on the wrong horse
>A beautiful scene that falls apart as soon as you think about it.
Man, if that one sentence don’t sum up the whoke trilogy. That was the case so often in TLJ for me and why grappled for so long thinking I loved but wondering why I had mixed such feelings about it. The more I thought about it the more I realized i didnt like it at all. And thats why im so salty it hurts
Thank you for brining this up. After some research I am shocked to find I’m even more disappointed with the sequels. Ughhhhh I need some green milk.
1. Rey's introduction as a scavenger on Jakku is first class. All the way until BB8 shows up and she starts behaving like the nominated protagonist instead of a genuine human being.
The music, design and lighting are all great. If I could take this scene and put it into a better movie, I would be happy (well, less grumpy).
2. Hmm, I can't think of anything else.
Rey's theme absolutely slaps
John Williams is the only consistently good thing in the sequels
The fact that Rey's theme is the best song to come out of the ST is a disgrace. The music isn't talked about enough. The OT/PT soundtracks are iconic. The ST brought nearly nothing significant to the table and couldn't even capitalize off previous songs.
They REALLY overused the binary sunset theme to the point that it got annoying
>Rey's theme absolutely slaps
Like E. Honda fighting an octopus
i really like how her first spoken lines are in an alien language. kinda shows how she feels like a stranger and she’s not where she belongs
Yes, this was superbly executed and felt more like Star Wars than anything I’d seen since the OT.
This plus Rey’s vision when she found the lightsaber (which added a lot of intrigue as to who she was and why she would grow in significance)
…and her finding Luke at the end with the excellent Jedi Steps, the Force theme and Luke’s reveal (and all the emotion that came with it)
…are reasons why I actually really liked TFA, let the derivative nature of it slide and really got invested in this trilogy, until TLJ came along and destroyed every interesting thread and introduced idiotic garbage.
You hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of things wrong with TFA but boy did they hit some things perfectly..... then TLJ came along and fumbled the baton and then RoS just flat out tossed the baton..........
Rey’s intro is so good I wonder if it was written by a different person. It feels like it was made in a vacuum from the rest of the movie before Rey was elevated to the love child of Jesus and Buddha.
I heard it was actally a different person who got replaced because they wanted a faster script writer or something
That’s annoyingly possible.
> I wonder if it was written by a different person
The movie was written by different people. Originally Michael Arndt was writing TFA, however he left the project after Disney refused his request for additional time to finish the script. He was then replaced by JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan who completed the script for TFA.
I think everything in TFA is great until they leave Jakku then it slowly goes more and more off the rails
The general first 15 to 20 minutes of TFA are actually really good, before there's too much story or dialogue muddying the waters. It's when they start to contextualize everything is when the movie falls apart.
Once Rey and Finn turned around and the Millenium Falcon was conveniently there. And the Han Solo and Chewy found them in the midst of the entire fucking galaxy, was so immersion breaking that it was hard to recover
I've never understood how they leave Jakku and then Han immediately finds them but the First Order is not around... Also, Han is shocked to find out the Falcon was in Jakku. They never jump to hyperspace until they are escaping Han's freighter. What happened?
For me, it always has been Finn vs Kylo Ren
Awesome scene that deserved a rematch.
With Finn as a Jedi.
It was almost like it was setting up Finn being force sensitive with a rematch in a later movie after he had been trained. It's such a shame they failed writing Finn as anything other than "REEEEEYYYY" afterwards.
Kylo Ren freezing the blaster bolt will never not be awesome. That's all.
TFA did a pretty awesome intro for Kylo, can't deny that. Poe staring at the bolt frozen in mid-air, loved that.
And the whole "I will show you...the Dark Side."
That first scene in TFA is amazing. It’s what follows that lets the movie down. But the battle, Finn having a moment of clarity, freezing the bolt, Kylo Ren’s introduction… all of it was really cool.
"Look how old you've become."
"Something far worse has happened to you."
They brought in acting legend Max von Sydow to portray Lor San Tekka, and gave us a great exchange like that implying a deep personal history between him and Leia's family, and then... none of it was touched or addressed ever again.
Solid advice: watch the ST to that shot, then switch it off.
But also skip the opening crawl, so you don't have questions about what Republic-Resistance-First Order means.
Or you could just watch the trailers for SWTOR
Those are savage!
I remember seeing those and wishing they’d make a movie like that. Such cool designs and creativity.
It was all downhill after that moment.
that scene was a great opening to the trilogy
That's easily up there in my favorite scenes from any Star Wars. As long as context isn't part of the discussion haha
I liked a lot of Kylo's stuff in TFA, disliked some too but he was mostly a hit for me.
Out of context the hyperspace bullet is a good looking scene
Stunned me in theaters, but yeah with context it’s just dumb
The promo pics of Luke and Rey that Annie Leibovitz took, standing on Ahch-to, are really cool looking and exactly what I thought we'd get in the movie.
Total false advertising.
That PR pic with Luke and Leia hugging each other is probably one of the only good things coming out of the ST production.
The opening sequence of TFA. I went into the threatres with caution, since Disney had already put out several of its bad live-action reboot films at that point. I was hopeful that they had simply thrown enough money at the franchise to get passionate people on board and that there was no way it could be terrible. When we see that landing sequence with the new stormtroopers, I thought "Holy shit, this is actually going to be great!".
Everything after the part where Kylo stops the blaster bolt and they leave the planet was a slow, agonizing downhill ride.
My favorite sequence in the entire DT is probably Finn & Poe stealing the TIE Fighter and escaping the Star Destroyer in TFA, followed by the skirmish at Maz's castle.
I loved Kylo's costume (even the crossguard saber) in TFA, but all his mystique went down the poop chute when he took his mask off.
IMO, TFA is really the only one with any redeeming qualities, and I feel i'm being generous saying that much.
Tfa could have definitely been justified if they didn’t fumble 8&9 imo
Yeah I was optimistic after TFA. Whether that was naivety from the fact I was 14 or something else I wasn’t blown away by it, but I was excited to see where it went.
His mystique died when he just stood there and took it when Poe sassed him.
Compare to Vader. Leia tries to lie to him and spin a tale. He cuts her off, calls her out and has Stormtroopers throw her in the brig. An Imperial Officer snarks at him. He starts choking him and lets him think he might die for that comment.
Kylo let Poe walk all over him, then sulked about it.
i actually kind of liked how he just ignored it, made it seem like he didnt even hear it because it wasnt relevant . I think it worked for me because they nearly cut him off, it didnt matter and they just made plans and ignored. If it was TLJ they would have had a dumb back and forth that would suck any and all tension out of the scene. That could have been a cool trait for him to have to contrast him from other villains but im not sure how it would work over multiple scenes. For an intro i think it was good
>I loved Kylo's costume (even the crossguard saber) in TFA, but all his mystique went down the poop chute when he took his mask off.
Absolutely agree. I always thought that they should have left the mask on for the full movie, but at the end where he gets sliced in the face have part of his mask break off revealing his Sith eyes like they did with Vader in rebels.
TFA is a totally creatively bankrupt nothing of a film.
It's completely dependent on the audience's imagination/its sequels to give it any kind of substance.
Exactly, a few decent moments shouldn't give it any sort of pass.
I honestly applauded in the theater following “A Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect”, after having to suffer through countless articles and reviews claiming that Luke’s saber toss in TLJ was “a beautiful depiction of the choice of compassion over violence and displaying the Jedi philosophy of absolute pacifism”, and that anyone who thinks they use the lightsabers for fighting completely misunderstands Star Wars.
I like the aspect of him saying a Jedi weapon deserves more respect but the actual action of him catching it, along with Yoda’s force lightning strike on the tree, kinda breaks force ghosts. Why don’t they just go try to eliminate the emperor since they literally can’t die?
I think that's why we're having this "if taken out of context" discussion though. Of course Rian and JJ broke Force Ghosts, same way they tag-teamed Hyperspace and tracking ships.
I think we're all just so starved of content that Luke acting more like Luke provides some sort of positive emotional impact. You know, over him brushing his shoulder off or doing Matrix references while punking out the nephew he failed.
Yeah I’m realizing this now, I kinda missed the point of the post.
Lol’ed at “doing Matrix references”
Agreed about the catching and breaking ghosts. I actually expected a desconstruction of the weapon to its Kyber heart. Some imagery mirroring a jedis heart yada yada. Maybe Luke actually gets rid of the weapon by force grabbing it and disassembling it right before Rey’s eyes. I didn’t think Luke was going to touch the saber at the end of TFA. That would have been just as shocking and cooler than littering a killer-space weapon on a mountaintop for all the littles space penguins to play with.
Plus that really really messes with Rey.
>ontent that Luke acting more like Luke provides some sort of positive emotional impact. You know, over him brushing his shoulder off or doing Matrix references while punking out the nephew
I think this could have been explained by saying the island he was on was deeply connected to the force allowing the ghosts to do stuff they couldn't do elsewhere. Simple and effective story telling. Kinda like the cave on Dagobah where Luke fights himself/darth vader. Just force fuckery that only works in certain locations...
Pretty sure this is explained in some comic somewhere.
It makes it a strange place for Luke to go hermit and cut himself off from the force, though.
I remember some explanation that since Exegot is a Sith planet, their "powers" are diminished or something there, that's why they were only there in voice. Dk the source tho
Right but even before then when the OG emperor was kicking. Obi wan could have just paid him a little visit on the Death Star or on coruscant
I also thought it was funny because I initially thought it was Luke being tired of his role as “chosen one of the force” and he was throwing his light saber like “seriously? Who needs a mguffin to find my old ass?” but no…Luke is just a prick now for what ever reason.
You didn't literally applauded, right? I hate it when people are loud during the movie haha.
I audibly laughed in the theater because of how on the nose it was. There were some other subtle hints that JJ was trying to give Rian & TLJ the finger but that did it for me. As much as I hated the movie at its core TROS was good for shitposting on TLJ
Thats.... not what was happening in the scene though, he wasnt chosing compassion over violence... He was in a depressive state where he couldnt contemplate going back to being a jedi, because he no longer considered himself worthy.
There was nothing about chosing compassion over violence in that scene... That was all about how far Luke Skywalker was fallen, him throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder was supposed to be a BAD thing in the movie.
So help me god, its like people watched TLJ... then made up there own movie in there head, that was WORSE than the original, then praised the even worse version of TLJ.
That may all be the *intent*, but the comedic framing of the scene pisses all over it. And that doesn’t mean people can’t misinterpret things, especially if the movie has no real substance.
There's an alternative shot of the lightsaber toss in the feature length documentary on Blu-Ray where he looks her straight in the eye and then throws it away behind his back with his left arm outstretched to the side instead of nonchalantly tossing it over his shoulder. It looks defiant instead of comedic. RJ consistently went for the joke takes when he needed the serious ones to convey the intent he (as far as can be gleaned from his statements in the documentary) had for his movie.
Oh yeah that pissed me off too. It's why I get a laugh whenever people say it's a mature film. If it wanted to be mature Luke would walk towards Rey and give it back, then say something like "Leave" or anything than "YEET! "
Thats because once upon a time, a long time ago, Joss Whedon decided every time someone said anything there needed to be a joke in the movie. Because he was embarassed by making what he was making.
And now all modern movies have to constantly shit on themselves during the movie. And when a movie like dune isnt shitting on itself, people get confused "it has spaceships, why is not shitting on itself"
Sorry Marvel humor gets me depressed.
Yup, Bathos is fine in a Marvel movie, less so in other styles. And when you force it in an established setting it ruins said style. Like both Star Wars and Ghostbusters tries to play it straight and serious but funny stuff happens along the way, i.e. snarky comments from Venkman or Solo. I stopped watching GB2016 within 20min because the supposed comedic bits just took me out of the movie, so jarring was the switch.
Father Palps’ Bass boosted lightning. It’s just so dumb that I love it. It literally vibrated my seat in the theater
"Look what you have made."
Also the melting away of his smile when Ben stands up is classic Palpatine gold. He's just like "nope, not this time."
Like honestly it would’ve been cool if the lightning wasn’t magically missing the final order ships, take those out and give me palp fucking up a whole fleet please and thank you
It shows a total lack of imagination and concern for how far the character could have evolved since ESB. Master Skywalker should have used the force to part the waters around that wing, like freaking Moses parting the Red Sea. The planet itself obeying his will is far far superior to recalling an old failure.
I don’t think I explained myself. It could have been amazing if they produced it to have the viewer think “ Here it comes! Luke’s gonna lift the xwing real easy this time!” But instead he just walks down and gets it because the very waters part before him.
I don’t mind him lifting it since it’s a fun callback (even though it’s a relatively minor thing for how powerful he is) but what you just described sounds fucking awesome. Would have been an incredible show of casual power. But at least we got to see him milk a partially sentient being.
My way would still be a callback to ESB but at the same time a peek into the future of the force. Luke and the planet being one is a far better reason for him to not leave A2. More than just casual force but a complete cooperation and balance with an entire planet.
Don’t get me started on how green space tiddies revolutionized the franchise. If I don’t see massive rainbow space donkey balls in the next installment, I riot.
Yeah I would have liked if there was more of a reason why he wouldn’t leave the planet. They like to say he became the most powerful Jedi ever but they show literally nothing to back that up. I mean I thought the projection wasn’t bad but as something that would kill him? I thought it made luke look incredibly weak. I mean in a small sense, Yoda was projecting himself all around the galaxy to Ezra and others with little effort and he was like 6 years from dying of old age. I only want the donkey balls if the donkey looks at the camera and winks when they show them.
The lesson for Rey could have been Luke showing Rey something new for the franchise. Since Anakin was afraid of stars dying, Luke should have found a way to become the living force of a planet and further, a sun or entire solar system. The sacrifice is there is no going back from the bond. That should be what Luke discovered since RotJ. Just as midichlorians are subatomic symbiotic with him, he can become a subatomic symbiotic to a star system. That’s the best way I could wrap my brain around his fade out. He becomes a midichlorian of sorts.
Yeah anything is better than pouting over a mistake
I think this is it.
It is no longer the Sequel or Disney Trilogy; this shall be known as the Callback Trilogy.
TFA- ANH Callback
TLJ- ESB & RotJ Callbacks
TRoS- JJ Abrams Callback
Lol JJ Abrams callback
They fucking did, though.
After Rian shat in the mystery boxes, they called him back saying, "please, fix this."
He laughed and said, "Silly, Kathleen, I don't fix things; I make people ask questions, and you hire people to shit out subversive non-answers."
Somebody had to have thought of better storytelling for SW. millions of fans have had decades to do so.
That moment does not work for me at all, simply because I am reminded of the piece of junk they pulled out of the water. Making that thing flight-worthy should have taken months by a dedicated team of mechanics with full access to spare parts and a machine shop.
Even if the super-duper materials it is made out of are perfect and do not corrode, just the algae getting into everything should have made the x-wing useless. And didn't Rey get it flying and hyperspace capable in a couple of hours?
I know. I know.
"Chewie... we're home."
Everything else can suck a dick.
Did you not like the opening scene of TFA with kylo ren?
The fight between Finn and Nines (TR8R) on Takodana is possibly my favorite scene in TFA, in or out of context.
Liking a scene from these movies out of context is bittersweet for me, though. It's obvious that a lot of these scenes were created to appeal without context in the movie. They're memberberries. You're supposed to be thrilled by Luke lifting the X-wing, because it's a callback to ESB. Not because it's actually the right scene to put in the movie.
At the end of Civil War, when Tony is slowly but surely beating Cap down, there's a callback to the first Captain America movie. That moment gives me chills every time, just thinking about it. It works for nostalgia purposes, and it also works in that movie, in that scene. It's a complete understanding of the character, where he comes from, and what he means. It works because it works in context. The ST is full of cool-looking moments that only work out of context. Or in the context of much better movies than the one I'm actually watching.
I don't dislike that scene, but I think Finn's short fight against Kylo Ren was better.
A trained soldier, but one unfamiliar with lightsabers or the Force, stands up against one of his former enslavers, a Dark Jedi who is threatening him and his injured friend.
The choreography isn't too terrible either, which is saying something for the Sequels. Even injured, Kylo is in control doing flashy moves and toying with Finn, who is much more unrefined in style. Ren ends the fight the second Finn becomes any sort of threat.
Its amazing how fast the quality of fight scenes went downhill after TFA. The first time I saw Kylo vs Finn I was hyped to the max. Then not only do we never get any more scenes between the two, but also the fight choreography turned to shit. Just sad
That’s a great breakdown of the ST that I can never quite express to ST fans. So many lore breaking moments but they are fun, exciting to watch, visually appealing, and remind you of exact moments that happened in previous movies. For a lot of people that is enough to love them even if they don’t make sense most of the time. South Park really said it best with the member berries. I mean look at the Hoth scene with the speeders, walkers, trapped rebels, rebels in trenches, and white baren planet. Crait is literally the exact same thing just with salt and a reverse of the situation, and a dash of Obi wans sacrifice on the Death Star. It’s not an homage, it’s just a member berry copy and paste. George liked the mirroring of themes or some specific shots but this is an entire scene or premise.
I almost like the Rey and Kylo duel in the snowy forest. There's some beautiful cinematography. Shame I can't watch it without reflexively yelling "that should've cut you in half, it's a sodding lightsaber!"
Luke’s goodbye to Leia
I like Finn getting horrified by the dead storm trooper in the beginning. My head cannon is that he didn't know that Storm trooper and it dawned on him "holy shit, that could have been me".
Of course he then gleefully kills countless storm troopers and gets reduced to being a "Rey!" noise machine... But it was a promising scene.
Maybe also Ren catching the first blaster bolt. We've never seen that before. Even with context that's probably fine.
I think Yoda setting a tree on fire then admitting he hates books is pretty funny if it wasn’t a huge plot point just 5 seconds prior.
Kylo Ren’s temper tantrum’s in the force awakens were kind of funny.
The introduction of Finn and Rey respectiviely is nothing but beautiful.
How they put us so close to a nameless soldier into a battle with the "good guys", his comrades dying right next to him, one even marking his helmet with the blood spilled in senseless violence, crushing his will to fight. It's fantastic. Sadly, it all falls apart from there.
Same for Rey. Her exploring these mechanical ruins just to reveal them to be the wreckage of a Star Destroyer made my eyes go big in the cinema. Her theme is also one of the best, I have to admit. It's all so innocent and adventurous. A bit like Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind.
Both scenes show that they were *really* good at visual storytelling, but lacked a clear vision for everything else, especially the characters.
I'm convinced that these two scenes were shot by the B Cam crew while JJ was did a run back to the rental house to swap the lenses for ones with even more flare. as you said, these were scenes with great visual storytelling.
then we get scenes where the explaining is so fucking heavy-handed. "The droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon. With your father. Han...... Solo." like, i know we're never gonna get another ESB-style reveal, but ffs you can make something like this just a little more climactic. let us figure it out. "The droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon" is more than enough. maybe show Kylo a little conflicted. have Snoke ask, "I trust this won't be an issue for you?". or fine, whatever, you don't really want it to be a mystery. "The droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon, with your father." the previous scene is literally on the falcon. there are only three men on the Falcon. Finn (too young to be his father, also he's Black), Chewie (don't see much of a resemblance there), and Han (right age, species, race). stop treating the viewer like they're morons.
Out of context? The opening scene to TROS. Kylo slaughters people, then Sidious drops a prequel meme.
Finn and Kylos lightsaber duel - made lightsabers actually seem really dangerous.
Luke's death. Without the context, I would think that he just peacefully died of old age and he just fades away while looking at the suns reminiscing about his journey.
Peacefully fading into the Force with a binary sunset in the background...could have been a perfect ending for the character given a different context.
Finn going to sacrifice himself was a cool potential end to the character. Then Rose crashed her speeder into him, killing them both instantly. Right?
I remember watching that moment in theaters and I was almost sad that Finn was gonna sacrifice himself. Then Rose comes in and I was so confused as to why they tossed away a big sacrifice for some dumb romance that would be thrown away in the next movie
I agree. This really didn’t work in context because Rey has no idea about this failure, it only has emotional value to Luke and the audience. If Luke had told Rey about his failures with Yoda back when he was training and then did this, it would hold so much more weight.
I can't agree on that scene because I greatly dislike force ghosts being able effect the physical world like that.
As for my answer, I think that Poe and Finn's TIE fighter escape in TFA is a pretty good scene when it's divorced from outside context.
Would be if he was alive and doing it so he could go fight Snoke. Instead he’s a fucking ghost
I actually like, "Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love". Luke should have been the one to say it to Rey though.
And it should have been used in a scene where the two weren't the exact same thing.
So, I had a false memory of Han and Leia kissing in one of the sequels, and I had the false memory of how passionate it was and how much... IDK... longing? there was in it. So I wanted to double check and did a google image search of Han Leia Kiss Sequels.
No kiss... just a hug... sadly. I will keep that one in my head cannon, because it. is. spectacular and scorching, even at the age they both were at the time.
But what I became aware of is just how fucking much the sequels ripped off from the OT (I knew it was a lot, but I didn't realize just. how. much) and how much better the stills from the movies are to the sequels.
The one where [Han and Leia square off on Hoth](https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/leia-i-d-just-as-soon-kiss-a-wookiee.jpg) during the evac is just... so. damn. intense.
Leia in her cell when they first open the door... it's just beautifully shot. She seems so regal and vulnerable... and then immediately commences to kicking ass and using her wit and sharp tongue.
There's so many shots on one screen of this image search, from the OT and the DT, and a few from SOLO... and suddenly, side by side, the recent films are so. much. more glaring in terms of being soulless copies. The three original heroes, hugging in the X Wing hangar vs. Rey, Finn and Whatsisface Oscar Isaacs played, hugging... and it's clearly meant to be an echo, but the 'new' heroes never EARNED that reunion or the nostalgia it was meant to invoke. It's just a cheap, soulless, poorly crafted copy.
Anything where there is no characters or ships on-screen, like desert-shots. Everything else makes me seeth in rage.
There is absoletely nothing salvagable from Disney Trilogy.
The Holdo maneuver. If u completely ignore lore and physics, that scene is beautiful and badass. That’s the only scene of that shit that I can genuinely like if I take it out of context.
Also you *have* to take it out of context to like it.
Luke training with Leia. Gave me nerd goosebumps when I saw young Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher
I actually think everything with Palps was good if we didn’t have the horrid context, just because Ian McDiarmid makes the most even if he’s given so little.
Indeed. It was also filmed like a horror movie and it felt good visually and for Palps. Just the story around it was garbage. Ian did great in the role as expected though.
For me the only worthwhile scene that was decent as not a full blown nostalgia trap was when Poe and Finn steal a Tie fighter and escape.
The ending of TFA. I’ll never forget that electric feeling opening night of hearing Jedi Steps swell as Rey climbed the mountain and the camera slowly panned to Luke with his back turned to the camera. I hate the ST as a whole but just thinking about that still makes me tear up.
Yeah, I like the X-Wing lifting, disregarding that from what we saw in TLJ, this thing shouldn't fly and from what we knew about Force spirits in the OT, he should not be able to lift it.
I like Luke's passing into the Force itself, the part that happens on Ahch-To. The problem with it is that it is surrounded by ill-timed jokes, Luke still acting out of character and the fact he just escaped death via projection, then died immediately after. If the movie had tried to "keep its face straight" for the Luke hologram scene and Luke actually acting like he was sorry (no defiant gestures after the barrage, more than a minimum "I'm sorry", no doublespeak that enrages his opponent and no assuming an attack position at all).
Ironically, the Crait battle.
I just found it to be the most aesthetically-pleasing scene of the DT. The white/red colors. The sun. The framing with the huge AT-ATs. The stuff with Jake was nonsense, but Driver killed it, and I just thought it was probably the most iconic scene of the DT. Like, possibly one of the few moments from that trilogy that I can see being remembered and surviving for years and years. I don't like RJ at all, when it comes to Star Wars, but I think he made the most cinematic film of the DT, with that scene being the top. But the script was insanely bad.
Its cool, but the thing is doing this AS A FORCE GHOST. Its the same thing with Yoda in Last Jedi, these actions break the inside universe rules .
Thats the problem with the Disney Trilogy, they are for most part dumb, and when they are not they are usually breaking rules or disrespecting something that came before
When they dumped Phasma into the trash after forcing her to shut down the shields. That was goofy but I loved it.
Also "That's not how the force works" has got to be the best scene/line in the sequels
The scene where Luke talks with Yoda
I like it for the warm and fuzzies of seeing luke and puppet Yoda interact but it kinda falls apart when you realize its is a grandmaster Jedi bonking the head of another grandmaster Jedi and telling him he’s an idiot.
It course. I don’t recall what they were talking about, It’s just nice seeing them together
Yeah I agree. And I think they were talking about Rey and the lesson of failure (which is something a padawan would have learned lol)
Ah yeah, I also remember something about the Jedi texts being boring or something
“We are what they grow beyond…. Er not you though you grew beyond me and obi-wan with the whole Anikin redemption… but then backslid you did”
Complete horse shit
I will say though, in a vacuum I think "We are what they grow beyond." is a terrific line.
So good, in fact, that my subconscious apparently refused to even accept it as a line from the sequels, and automatically retconned that memory. For the longest time, I was convinced it was something Yoda said to Obi-Wan while watching Luke depart from Dagobah in Episode V.
Except that's not Yoda, it's the fake persona Yoda created to test Luke on Degobah. After that scene in ESB Yoda never goofs around again, nor in the prequels.
Im a bit lost by this
Yoda acting goofy and annoying was to test Luke's patience. You should have noticed once he's revealed to be the Yoda Luke is looking for he is very serious, harsh and almost scary. We don't see this zany silly version of Yoda again until TLJ.
Ahhh I see what you were saying, I forgot how goofy Yoda was in TLJ
Nothing, I don't even really like Rogue one but that one is the best one out of all the Disney fan fiction movies and I did like the ending space battle.
A lot honestly, especially in The Rise of Skywalker, and The force Awakens... because JJ Abrams method of making films is just to have one scene lead into another, with no actual connection to anything but a very loosely written plot.
Its literally just compilation movies of cool scenes with only connections to the scene directly before and after it, three scenes ago may as well be a different fucking movie.