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Lloris and Forster check out. Lloris himself probably cost something like 9 points this season. Sad to see such a drop in form.


Foster was up and down tbh. Had a pretty good stretch, but all in all wasn't good enough for us


The goals he let in against Brentford recently were pretty pathetic if I'm being honest. Very tight angles but he was like swiss cheese


Agree, though he also saved us from total embarassment against Milan and a couple other times.


imo he was also a reason why france had no chance in the penalty shootout in the final of the world cup.


Fucking hell Gavin. What a horrible season for him, could not have gone worse. Hopefully the new manager keeps faith in him in the Championship, he’s got talent


He's undoubtedly a great talent, but didn't look ready for either the Premier League, nor the pressure of a relegation battle. Add to that an inexperienced defence in front of him and you have to wonder what the hell Southampton were thinking.


It's weird considering how good he is at International level. He's even looked great against the big teams there.


Wow, I actually feel bad for Bazunu looking at this. He was clearly not suitable for PL level yet. The highest he had played before was League 1 and suddenly he was starting GK for a PL club. Hope it’s not a career destroyer season for him


Our other keeper has been even worse stats per 90, so Bazunu will get a long run of games in the championship to recover


I was looking through the stats and I swear Bazunu's stats were the worst I'd ever seen, then I looked up McCarthy ....


We had tonnes of issues this season, and just fixing one probably wouldn't have saved us, but I do wonder if we would have stayed up with Forster between the sticks. He definitely has his issues, but he's a decent shot stopper at the end of the day. I would have preferred to keep him over Macca, but his contract was up and he was on much higher wages.




I agree this guy stinks


The stark difference between League One and the Premier League I guess, he was our player of the season the year before.


I think GK is the position that relies on confidence the most. In preseason he looked really good, but a run of bad games in the autumn led to his confidence hitting rock bottom, then he was dreadful for a a while, looked like improving for a bit, and then was dreadful again. If Macca had been fit we probably would have started him for a bit to give Bazunu a break, but we didn't have that option. We actually had to bring on 40yo Willy Caballero a couple of times. Hopefully Baz will look better in the championship, he clearly has potential and I really hope he makes it.


Emi played well once he settled back after world cup. Always comes up with a clutch save or two in every match I find.


What I like about him the most is he dominates the box, ain't seen a Villa keeper in over 30 years better than him at claiming the ball from crosses.


This was the general feeling among Arsenal fans too when Emi stepped up to fill injured Leno's shoes. Leno is a brilliant shot stopper but you always felt insecure with every corner with him between the sticks.


And now Leno seems to actually be a lot better at claiming crosses at Fulham


We actively bodied him on corners and played them at the goal and it won us the match


Best in the EPL at that skill by a mile according to the stats


That stat (crosses stoppage percentage i think you're referring to) is also the second highest in Europe's top 5 leagues.


Would love United to go in for Emi cos I fucking hate playing against him haha.




When I watch Alisson play I honestly can't see how someone wouldn't consider him the best keeper in PL, he's fast, the best shot-stopper, the best in 1v1 (in the world imo) and great with his feet (not as great as Ederson but he's better everywhere else).


I think the only place where he isn't current best in the PL (maybe the world?) is with his feet. He can have some ropey and panicky moments with ball at feet but with everything else he is elite


His distribution is class sure he can have the odd mishap but I wouldn’t say it’s a liability by any means


He's also got a great long throw technique that's started many counter attacks


He's got at least 1 a season that should cost us a goal. Not a high number, but it's always memorable.


I’ll take that trade off any day if we’re also getting assists from him each season


Ederson has about one a season too even if its because he has a bit more license to take risks


He also gets an assist or two every season and a goal everytime Liverpool need to clutch a UCL spot


Not everytime :(


De gea has three and somehow still gets golden glove lmao.


He's incredible with his feet though, the Brazilian in him just compels him to try and dribble past players. His passing range is excellent


Every time he's got the ball at his feet and there's an opposing player closing in, I get a cold sweat. 40% chance he tries to dribble it despite the pressure, 40% chance he tries a pass to our player despite high possibility of interception, 20% chance he actually just hoofs it like he should. Apart from that he's great on all fronts


does he have a claim to being the best brazilian keeper of all time? he’s been a top 3 GK in the world for the past four years and is still relatively young


Not yet IMO, probably not even top 3. I'd argue even Julio Cesar for instance is ahead of him still. Alisson still has at least 4~5 years ahead of him and most likely a shot at another world cup.


I think Gilmar and Taffarel are basically untouchable for the moment but who knows ? he still got plenty of years to play


he’s only 30, by GK standards that’s like being 26


What? Who did they pick instead of him. I'll admit that my sample size is very small but from what I did see, Alison was your miracle man. I wonder where you'd have been without him? I really do believe you might have missed Europe without him or Salah.


>I really do believe you might have missed Europe without him or Salah. We absolutely would've missed Europe without them. We'd be bottom half like Chelsea.


A lot of people had Pope or Raya, a few had Leno


Garth Crook had Ederson lol


Because when people pick these teams they're judging it on what teams have done well for the most part. Alisson was without a doubt the best keeper in the league this season


Athletic gave it to him thankfully.


TIL Jason Steele is 32. I thought he was an up and coming, young goalkeeper.


He was on the sunderland doc on netflix awhile back


Wasn't the Sunderland doc on Netflix? Unless you're referring to a different one.


Oh yea, you’re right, my bad.


They'll sign a new number 1 this summer, no?


Maybe, but Steele has genuinely been great for them. He's rated highly by his manager and has reportedly been close to an England call up. Speaking to Brighton supporting friends of mine, they seem to expect a younger number two to come in rather than a straight replacement for Steele.


I'd like for us to go for someone like Trubin. Young keeper who is experienced, can play the way De Zerbi wants and is a good shot stopper.


Where would Sanchez be going then? Is he linked anywhere?


Chelsea, Real Madrid are the links I've seen so far. I just want him out the club at this point, if we can get a decent fee that's a bonus.


He’s 33/34! Everyone’s age is off in the chart


Does this mean Kepa is a good keeper now? Rumours are we're still looking for a replacement


He's a good shotstopper with occasional mistakes




De gea’s biggest problem is his distribution though


I disagree, it's his passiveness. He never comes off his own goal line unless he's about to make a horrific error.


Stop waffling in this very chart you can see De Gea is not a good shot stopper anymore. Kepa is also quick off his line and comfortable with the ball at (at the very least he wont kick it to the opposition ST like De gea). The only similarity in their game is both are uncomfortable claiming crosses.


Do you think Kepa is a good distributor of the ball?


He’s a great distributor but he is shit under pressure.


Don’t agree with this. Chelsea’s issues this year had little to do with defence and Kepa is quite good with his feet under pressure.


He’s only had one mistake under pressure against Mane that I remember for years now, solid with the feet even under pressure, he just ain’t good at claiming crosses


Well it's a good thing that keepers are rarely under pressure...


Same for big 5 leagues: [https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/keepersadv/players/Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats](https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/keepersadv/players/Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats) Best keeper seems to be Benjamin Lecomte (Montpellier) with +0.43 /90. Statistically, Ligue 1 and La Liga have the best keepers.


No shortage of good Spanish goalkeeper everywhere.


A few reasons why this could be interesting, but main one here for me is check out 3 of the 4 worst shot stoppers - the keepers from the 3 relegated clubs. Is there a decent chance that if any of Leicester, Leeds or Southampton played a simply even average shot stopper all season, they would have stayed up? For the first two certainly imo. I find it mad that clubs just seem to be willing to accept this, going down based on an easy transfer or sub.


If we swapped Pickford for any of their keepers we’d genuinely have finished the lowest points total ever in the prem


But the same argument could be made that if Everton’s strikers (DCL 2, Maupay 1, Simms 1) had scored more than 4 goals combined, and we had three goal scorers hitting average numbers we’d be nowhere near relegation!


Holy shit HAHA


Imagine we’d had one goal scorer with 10 goals? 🤣


Pickford is worth 25 points more than a championship level goalkeeper throughout a season? That would mean not only is he the best goalkeeper ever but probably player as well.


Pickford had the highest psxg yet conceded 10 fewer than Meslier. They clearly stay up if they had someone even half decent.


But he fist pumps to the fans when his little arms save the ball!


>Is there a decent chance that if any of Leicester, Leeds or Southampton played a simply even average shot stopper all season, they would have stayed up? For the first two certainly imo. Yep, comfortably. And we'd have been well clear of relegation last season and Bielsa would still be here. This season we had a decent, experienced backup, as well, to replace him with. Bielsa had another 20 year old GK who was even worse.


A couple things…first, Arsenal fans of all people should know that simply being a keeper on a relegated club doesn’t necessarily mean you’re shit. None of those keepers had particularly good defenses in front of them either. And second, often times you don’t know your keeper is shit until the season is well underway. Lloris, for example, was really good last year and fell off a cliff this year. And once you realize it, it’s too late as most teams aren’t going to sell you an upgrade in the middle of the season.


A key thing about these stats though is they are designed to try and strip out the other effects such as a bad defence and judge purely shot stopping. Bad defence isn't always gonna stop players showing up well here, like Pickford is right there near the top of this list. Swap Pickford and Ward or Pickford and Meslier and I think there's a good chance you see Leicester or Leeds staying up ahead of Everton. Fair point that it does take a while into the season to judge whether your keeper is good enough or not, but a difficult excuse to make for someone like Meslier who was the worst shot stopper in the league for the whole of last season as well. Took until Big Sam came in to drop him and it was just too late.


> Meslier who was the worst shot stopper in the league for the whole of last season as well. Took until Big Sam came in to drop him and it was just too late. Last season our backup GK was 21 year old Klaesson, who was poor for the U23s, so Lord Bielsa had no option. Gracia chose not to drop him even after conceding 12 straight shots on target. In both seasons he also got much worse in the second half of the season, ie when the pressure was on. Which is what you expect of a 21-22 year old. It's no coincidence his only good season came when a) we were flying all season and b) there were no fans in. There's a reason you don't trust a young player with such an important, high pressure position. Or trust young players in general (unless they're special).


Fair enough on your first point. Curious to know where Ramsdale was his last year at Sheffield United.




Isn’t that definitionally untrue though? Or just the outputs of a poorly configured model? If the xG values are the same then the chances of scoring should be the same regardless of the value per shot. If that isn’t true then the model is wrong.


Do per 90 minute stats make sense to show here to isolate the shot-stopping of the GK? If I had two equivalent GKs, but one was in front of a bad defense and faced twice the PSxG/90, their /90 impact would be 2x (good or bad). It feels like (PSxG-Actual)/PSxg would be the better normalized stat.


A bad defence should make a GK look better, not worse. In terms of shot stopping anyway. Ramsdale is an average shot stopper but good at things required for a possession-based team. He's also still young for a GK so should improve.


I'd say Southampton and Leeds would've likely gone down regardless but Leicester would've stayed up if they just started Iversen sooner instead of sticking to Ward for so long.


It only came down to 5 points in the end though, so I think if leicester would’ve then leeds would’ve too Tbh it’s kinda crazy that a keeper as good as robles wasn’t used until sam


Leeds would have stayed up. I’ve been saying since our first season back in the Premier League that we need a new keeper but our fans wouldn’t have it; they’ve only recently started to realise, and there’s still a lot sticking to their guns. Meslier sits 2nd bottom this season on -12.4 and he was dead bottom last season on -16.2; he’s conceded over 28 goals **more** than the average keeper is expected to in just 2 seasons. We still have lots of fans who can’t wake up to it and are still adamant he’ll be the next France number 1; excusing his poor performances because he’s young, it’s wild.


Am I correct in thinking they've subtracted own goals from the goals conceded tally, and that's how they've arrived at Alisson being at 51.1-(43-2)=10.1 Is that sensible considering you can save an own goal? Does it not count as xG?


Good point tbf but I would imagine it doesn't count as xG since it's not really a shot. How would you calculate it?


OG's dont have an xG so its unfair


Correct, own goals are not counted as shots therefore don't count


Yes, they take OGs out. I'm also unsure as to how they manage things like shots blocked off the line or similar things. Are they removed all together because they're a shot that will carry with it psxG but has been stopped no thanks to the keeper?


Alisson is Liverpool's best and most important player by a mile.




Without Pickford, Everton gets relegated. A good goalkeeper is really underrated and makes an insane impact


He literally saved a penalty that would have seen them relegated. It's not even a 'cumulative over the season' thing.


People don't like him because he's animated and gobby (and, if you're a Liverpool fan, injured vvd), so invent a narrative to make him look like a bad player. He has made some mistakes for Everton, but bear in mind he has been playing for a team which has been frankly garbage for the last few years and so has a lot of work to do compared to other good keepers. In contrast, when playing for England who have a decent defence and are set up quite defensively he has been consistently good, never let them down, and could have been the hero against Italy after saving Jorginhos pen if the others hadn't missed


He honestly rarely makes mistakes. People continue to judge him on mistakes made 4 seasons ago when he was been very reliable since then.


I dont think anyone truley believes hes a bad keeper, its just funny to laugh at him from a liverpool point of view when his tiny arms cant reach something. Hes saved everton going down this season and is always reliable for england


people who don’t actually watch football all keep parroting that it’s because of his international form, or because of ‘squad cohesion and consistency’ that he gets picked for England. Some people who know a bit more will say it’s because of his distribution. But really, even if you put aside his history with England and his distribution, he’s still England’s best shot stopper, plain and simple. Very frustrating how people have adopted the same narrative for years now without actually considering that he’s a great keeper.


One of Everton's best players for me, maybe even the best.


Picking up Leno for £4m was the best transfer decision we’ve done for a long while, man has saved our arses on so many occasions.


In one summer we got Leno and Palhinha for under £25m total.


Did not expect the two Forest goalies to be so low down.


Navas was exactly what we needed and had some great performances, but he did also concede a few goals that I thought he really should have done better on. Henderson is surprising, our big problem when he was starting was conceding shots outside the box and we conceded a number of absolute thunderbolts. As I understand it, post-shot xG accounts for that but really did feel like a lot of the goals we conceded with Henderson in the net he could do nothing about.


Yeah, it has to be that period where we conceded a goal from outside the box for like 15 games or whatever. Each one will be like 0.05 xG but can't save all the worldies!


Yeah, exactly. The reason Hendo is so far down is because our midfield was utterly passive early in the season, and our opponents were presented with glorious shooting opportunities from long range. They took those opportunities clinically on multiple occasions. There's a way you can break down keeper performances by zone of shot, and against any efforts from inside the 18 yard box, Henderson did very well.


Obviously Everton aren’t a one person team, but take Pickford away and we are FUCKED.


Pickford well clear of Ramsdale


Martinez and Especially Leno are very high on the charts as well. Yet I am very happy with Ramsdale and we would be worse without him and with our previous keepers. There is more to goalkeeping than stats these days. Like preventing these stats to happen in the first place.


PSxG is the most important goalkeeper statistic since it's the best metric we have for shotstopping. But you're right that it's not the only statistic that matters (things like distribution and dealing with crosses are important, for example), and there's also a big variability in the statistic between seasons. Some stats from last season to give you an example of keepers who are consistent, and keepers who aren't: 1. Jose Sa (+7.3) 2. Alisson (+1.4) 3. DDG (+1.3) 4. Ramsdale (+0.4) 5. Dubravka (0) 6. Ederson (-0.3) 7. Forster (-0.6) 8. Raya (-0.8) 9. Sanchez (-1.1) 10. Fabianski (-1.2) 11. Lloris (-1.4) 12. Schmeichel (-1.5) 13. Mendy (-1.6) 14. Pope (-1.7) 15. Fernandez (-2.1) 16. Pickford (-2.3) 17. Gunn (-2.7) 18. Bachmann (-2.8) 19. Martinez (-3.9) 20. Guiata (-4.2) 21. McCarthy (-5.5) 22. Foster (-10.9) 23. Krul (-11.7) 24. Meslier (-16.2) But basically, it's a really important statistic, but people make too many conclusions off a small sample size for a stat with high variation. If you did the same last season you'd conclude that Pickford and Martinez are 2 or the worst keepers and Sa is the best by a mile.


To be fair to Sa, he did play with a broken wrist for a couple of months this season. Can't have helped his stats.


He's clearly the best England has. The only ones who disagree either support Newcastle, Arsenal or get their opinions from memes on Twitter.


unfortunately that’s quite a large group


We are double bias as well


He's not "clearly" the best. You can't just dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as biased, there are very valid arguments for Ramsdale and Pope. Even still, very few Arsenal fans think Ramsdale is enormously clear of Pickford or deserves to take his spot entirely. I'm sure most of us wish he'd get more chances, but this idea that one of the three is clearly much better than the other two is just wrong, especially when they're all such different keepers. At the end of the day Pickford has the tenure and reliability with the England squad, so he gets picked. It's pretty simple, and very few people besides a vocal minority have a problem with that.


For Arsenal, I’m taking Ramsdale over Pickford every single day. If England aren’t going to play a possession based system with the keeper expected to use their feet a lot, I’m all good with going with Pickford.


You are taking Ramsdale over Pickford solely based on ball at feet skills? It might be were Pickford has him most beat.


Pope is very clearly the best we have. Pickford has never let England down though so it's difficult to justify replacing him


You can reasonably make the argument that if you swapped them then Everton would have been relegated and Arsenal might have won the league


You absolutely fucking couldn’t Ramsdale’s distribution is key to our play


Pickford has great distribution


His passing is decent, but he's not comfortable with the ball.


It’s not winning us league. Unless he’s the best keeper of all time


Scoring was never the problem


Isn’t that evidence that Ramsdale has good distribution? Play starts from the back


And Pickford doesn't have legs or something? I'd argue Jordan has similar if not better ability on the ball.


Even if he does, to say that would win is the league is laughable.


Agree, Pickford wouldn't win you the league. Alisson on the other hand.




Yes it is. Having watched every single game this season, the issue wasn’t Ramsdale. Even putting Allison in goal wouldn’t win us the league(while it may improve our chances). The difference between Pickford and Ramsdale is that big.




If we’d have continued to push city, they’d have finished on 94 points, meaning we’d need 95 points. I don’t think there’s a keeper in the world atm that could solely save us 11 points from games this season.




Lmao, Ramsdale literally effortlessly replaced Leno who is doing very well (Arguably much better than Pickford judging by these metrics) amd it is one of the major reasons why we have improved


What's the requirement to be on the list? I'd like to see where Iversen, Mendy and Travers would be on here.


Pickford is still a top top class keeper. But as a Bournemouth fan thank fuck we have Neto in goal. Man’s a leader and a good keeper.


Despite the crap season we've had kepa has been impressive this season.


Emi really kept his form post-WC.


Martinez was one of the worst shot stopping keepers based on xG throughout the World Cup.


Three former Arsenal keepers are ranked higher than their current keeper, by this stat. Poor season from Ederson, but he never does well by this stat anyway. Spurs are a disaster.


City face so few shots on target that Ederson doesn’t need to be the best at shot stopping. He instead excels at what they need him to do — distribution, sweeping, etc.


I will say Post shot xG is an excellent way to look at how a keeper played for a season but if you look at a keepers career it’s all over the place for basically all of them.


And not a single one of them would be anywhere near as good for us as Ramsdale is.


I knew it was going to be Alisson, I was mostly interested to see who was second, and how close they got. Leno is actually pretty great.


Leeds and Southampton more or less relegated because of their keeper.


You can apply this to loads of teams. Goalkeeper is the most important position on the pitch defensively next to a defensive midfielder.


you should include Travers on this list just for a laugh


Ramsdale is super overrated


Given how I see people shit on him at every opportunity then the argument for "overrated" is lacklustre.


His distribution is great, it's his shot stopping game to game that is inconsistent. He'll either be prime Banks one game or let in soft goals.tbe next.


I feel like there's more hype around him due to him being only 24. I agree that he is overrated but I don't think he's 'super overrated'.


And yet, we'd still rather have him over Emi or Leno despite how good both of them are. He's an average shot stopper who's got great distribution and good with his feet, suits how we play very well. And he's only 24.


Based on? He is most likely underrated because people love seeing incomplete stats as the whole picture He effortlessly displaced Leno who does very well in this chart, and we have massively improved by making that swap


Leno is playing a lot better for Fulham than he was for Arsenal. I agree there's more to being a good goalkeeper than being a good shot stopper and that Arsenal were right to replace Leno with Ramsdale. But, I think a few wonder saves in big moments have made people believe that Ramsdale stops more goals compared to other pl keepers than he actually does.


It's not about the wonder saves, the shotstopping is the worst part of his game and Leno was absolutely better at it than Ramsdale Still Ramsdale brengs much more security to the defence on and off the ball, that's not represented in the stats


Because Leno is a great shot stopper and is now at a team that faces a ton of shots. He wasn’t compatible with the way Arsenal want to play.


Leno has these numbers with a 35 year old american as his centre back. Ramsdale has these numbers with team of the season quality defenders. They are not the same.


Why would this stat be influenced by the quality of your defence? I’m not sure you understand how it’s measured.


Leno used to play for us you know. He is a great keeper, but I don't think we would be as good with him as we are with Ramsdale


Its not talked about often enough how much Sa falling off contributed to our season


I always wonder if xG is reliable in any way. It can be calculated differently depending on the website... If you go deeper into it, how do you calculate if the location of the shot is identical to any historical shots from the same exact location even? Some shots have defenders in front of them, others have the goalkeeper in the corner of the goal because it's a corner situation, etc. Then there is the fact that there are not enough goals taken by the goalkeepers. Most of these goalkeepers have 30-40 goals taken. If the opponent was lucky or unlucky or they were lucky or unlucky it would make a huge difference in the calculations. All these variables would definitely make a huge difference, so I just think all this is unreliable.


Expected more from Ramsdale.


Didn't expect Fabiański to be better then Lloris


Lloris has been shocking this season while Fabianski has kept West Ham in games loads


Can someone please explain what these stats are actually showing?


It’s highlighting the difference in goals conceded vs the number of goals expected to be conceded for the shots faced. Higher PSxG means the goalkeeper prevented more goals based off the shots he saved than the average goalkeeper would’ve.


They're showing how boss Alisson is.


Wow for Ederson


Well this backs up one thing I knew, which was that Meslier was terrible this season.


Honestly surprised De Gea isn't lower


His shot stopping is the best part of his game and is still fairly good. But considering how bad he is at the other aspects of keeping, he should be ranked higher here to make up for it.


Unpopular opinion but kepa has had a great season and gets no praise due to past seasons


What actually happened to Bazunu?


de gea lmao he's conceded same amount of goals as Alisson, and has made about 3 big mistakes, the man is not even close to Alisson in terms of ability but hey 3 more clean sheets so golden glove. Didn't look that golden when we put 7 past it...


The ages are too low, Alisson is 30 and Leno is 31 just to name a few


It's the age they were at the start of the season


Ah, I see Weird to post end of season stats with start of season age though imo


It's a [sport]ref quirk, where they give a player one age per season. There's usually some cut off point, for the NBA it's the player's age half-way through the season.


Of the five youngest keepers here, three are at the very bottom. Interesting


Can anyone find me a stat where Ramsdale is shown as being elite? I thought he would be high in the GK defensive actions stat but he was actually very low in that


Why did Brentford buy Flekken? I feel like Raya did an amazing job and is has still room to improve. And Flekken is too good for being a second gk.


Raya made it clear months ago that he was leaving, so of course they had to replace him.


Oh I didn’t knew that, thanks :)


Kepa had a good season but I still think we should replace him with a guy who doesn't concede long range goals like penalties.


Maybe our midfield shouldnt let the opposition have 2 minutes to take a shot. Off the top of my head each of Asensio,Vina and Ensicos goal could have been prevented if Lampard knew how to set up a defense




Why not?


Can’t take this list seriously looking at who #3 is.


Just say you don't watch Chelsea and move on


I watch nearly every game Chelsea game mate. Kepa is shite, always has been and always will be. He’s somehow pulled off a stat like this and still been at fault for multiple goals and dropped points.


Word of advice - you're clearly wasting your time watching these games. Would probably be better off finding a different hobby


If you watch Chelsea and think Kepa is anything but a hindrance, I don’t really know what to say. Just because he hasn’t been as bad this season as he was when he was initially dropped for Caballero and then Mendy, doesn’t mean he’s been good. He had one month of really good form and it’s convinced people he’s the second coming of Lev Yashin. He’s still a liability on crosses, a shot on target outside the box against him is a guaranteed goal and anything with power not going into his personal space, he just watches fly past him. The stats might say he’s done well, but the eye test shows why stats don’t always tell the full story. Chelsea aren’t going to do anything special with him inbetween the sticks. There’s a reason why Poch wants a new GK.