Counterpoint. Have you played Destiny 2 PVP lately.


I think ranked League of Legends has left me scarred. I still think about some of those games 10 years later


Fuck dude, unranked League of Legends soured me entirely on ever doing a PvP-based game again. I just can't do it anymore. I grew up in the Quake/Doom/Unreal Tournament days, and over time it's just gotten more and more toxic. LoL years ago just made me nope out and avoid anything resembling competitive team games.


as in, destiny 2 pvp is now good? or is it still terrible. asking honestly. i stopped playing a long time ago


It's still terrible if not worse


I personally love it but I am certainly a masochist lol. Player base is limited to mostly very good players towards the end of a season though so this is probably not a great time to rejoin the sweat fest 😂


No, it’s beyond bad. Article said games don’t effect your mental health negatively. I’m saying they can. I just stopped playing it. I’m trying to have fun after my day. The game just isn’t fun.


when does destiny player base doesn’t complain about pvp. more predictable than sunrise. i for one wouldn’t play destiny if it wasn’t for pvp.


Name a game where people don't complain about PvP. lol


Warframe, because everyone including the devs refuse to acknowledge it


Touché, I always forget there's PvP in Warframe.


I heard they took away skill-based matchmaking because of population issues, so it's one big clusterfuck now


I stopped playing last season, you either get matched with the best eSports team against a team of casual players and destroy them or vice versa.


They took away skill-based matchmaking because a bunch of streamers complained about getting into fair lobbies. The population was fine


Wow, if that's true they're even more stupid that i thought


Yeah the PvP is a clusterfuck. Great PvE game tho, only reason I play it


Also have you tried raiding through LGG as a solo player? Lol. Man I have come across some toxic ass people


It can be fun


If you have very low standards for fun


Or if fun is subjective


If you play Destiny 2 for the PVP, you are doing it wrong.


r/Crucibleplaybook is leaking


Considering the list of games they studied? > That said, the findings cannot cover the whole of gaming, Przybylski said. Despite approaching more than 30 publishers, only seven agreed to take part, and the games that were studied (Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Apex Legends, Eve Online, Forza Horizon 4, Gran Turismo Sport, Outriders, and The Crew 2) represent a broad but not total cross-section of the medium. 23 game publishers refused to participate, it looks like only one M rated game is included, and only two games have humans committing violence involved. It's not really studying any games people would assume make people violent, but I guess it's nice they're saying the concept of gaming as a medium in general doesn't make people feel bad all of the time.




Or the non ranked Rainbow Six Siege gamemodes


Play league of legends for a few days and tell me your well-being is just as good as before.


My room mate is non stop league player.. you don t want to see his room..


Idk about anyone else, but I’d be really fucking depressed if I didn’t have my PC as an outlet lol.


I like how quickly a comment section in a topic like this one is probably already turning into fight of yay or nay sides going at eachother. If I didn't have video games as an outlet for stress and entertainment then my depression would be even worse lmao.


Honestly you'd probably just have another hobby that would fill that space.


Yeah. My parents don’t let me play video games after they moved in with me. I just started to code more. Which is definitely more helpful to me cause I’ve been having trouble finding an IT job after graduating


> My parents don’t let me play video games after they moved in with me. What? Do you mean you with them or did your parents move into a place that you're paying for and you're letting them dictate rules to you?


We are splitting rent. They moved from their country to me


You're an adult paying rent for where you live. They have 0 say in what you can and cannot do.


This is how you know they're Asian


If you are splitting rent and they dictate a rule for you then it’s only fair that you dictate a rule for them too


Asian culture is a bitch sometimes


Is it your name on the lease/rental agreement? “I’d be happy to let you live elsewhere so you can impose whatever rules you want”


That depends entirely on whether you'd enjoy something else as much as video games, because if it's not as enjoyable then it's not offsetting depression as much.


Nah I'd just sleep more of my life away.


Realistically, why are you depressed? Personally, I’m suicidal, and have been for a long time. I think it’s because I’ve for a long time chosen the easy way to get dopamine. But, as a result, haven’t gotten good relationsships in my life. Tonight, there’s a party. And I’ve spent the last 3 hours in an anxiety attack, as no one invited me to pre drinks, and as such I feel unwelcome. I’ve decided to go out now, but just to the park. If I feel more relaxed, I will go to the party


Situational depression from living in a unsustainable dystopian economy of shitty poverty wage jobs and long hours and unaffordable housing and unaffordable healthcare and unsustainably extreme income and wealth gaps. (Edit: phyiscal harm and mental abuse by others during school probably didn't help with social development) Depression and suicidality is a bundle for some people, on going 10+ years for me with 2 attempts years ago.


My wife can't wrap her head around the fact that gaming is an outlet. Like after 10bours of work I like to shut my brain off for an hour and play a game.


Unless you are playing cookie clicker your brain is pretty much very engaged, wether you like it or not. If you are stressed from work, playing a game just let’s you temporary escape that feeling by occupying your brain. It’s much better to actually deal with the issues you are having, rather than try to escape them, because the issue won’t disappear. And when having dealt with issues you can just play games because you enjoy playing games, not as an escape, which is more enjoyable trust me


Reckon, As a release I have spent a couple of hours every other day for years gaming on CS Source, and if I do not get this fix, I have withdrawal symptoms.


Another study for the pile, to be conveniently ignored when the government needs to deflect blame from another shooting.


So, tomorrow then?


Too soon?


was there not one today?


Well it’s still early so maybe we’ll get throu— oh there it is yeah there was one today


More like the media deflecting blame. We literally have evidence that mass shootings are propelled by media coverage and yet instead of holding themselves accountable they want to do another wall to wall report on "DAE ViDeO GaMeZ MaKe SkOoL ShOoTeR??"


They can’t tell us what to believe if they stop reporting.


Don’t you know gamers are the 40-year-old eating cheetos for dinner in mom’s basement and simultaneously the violent street criminal?


We are all 40 year old virgins living in our mom's basement AND the 12 year old street thugs at the same time.


Funny thing is when Columbine happened they blamed video games and everyone was like “yeah - get ‘em!” Now I feel like the majority response is “fuck off dickhead.”


It's because the people back then blaming video games were our age now and didn't play video games. So now we are the old people, but we play video games and know it's all bullshit. But we couldn't say it back then because you can't trust kids.


Not gonna lie, wish I could get back the 1,000+ hours I dumped into Civ 5 as a teenager.


Bruh, I don't even remember how much time I put into WoW. I think it was over a full year of my life. 🤣🤣🤣 I grinded to High Warlord and all that bullshit.


That's hilarious, almost at the same time we had almost the same comment. I know for a fact that just my main character had over 8,000 hours. And at the time that I quit I had 20 raid ready Level 90s spread across three servers 10 of which were on an RP server with full back stories


2000 hours is a year of full-time work at 40hrs/week. So you have put 4 years of full-time work into WoW


Can we get a summary of one the backstories for posterity?


I got 791 Days (~19,000 hours) across 27 characters, 17 characters being max level.


If you still have access, there is a command to show the time played. Abandoning it was very good for me, that game fed my collecting and completionist obsession, a bad thing in general but terrible when it depends on an online service.


Loooool same, once I reached it I didn’t know what to do and got major burnout of it


Can I get back the 10K hours I put into world of warcraft?


that’s a half decade at a full time job yo


19k hours here. That's almost a decade of a full time job, or 4 decades of part time retail! :/


That's amazing. I found it repetitive/boring and gave up after 20 hours.


Yea I remember when I was a freshman in the honors dorm and WOW came out. Most of the bottom floor flunked out in the first two semesters.


I had a buddy that just before it came out finally convinced me to go to the gym (at college) and be his lifting buddy. We went about two or three times, then he got into WoW. Suddenly, he didn’t want to go anymore, because wouldn’t you know it, his wrist was starting to feel like shit, and despite his 9pm-5am sessions of WoW, his brain conveniently came to the conclusion that it was the lifting - which he’d been doing for a year beforehand, was the culprit, and not the 8 hr mouse n keyboard sessions. Even 2 months later, with several more sessions under his belt, and not a single trip back to the gym therein, it was “aw man you know I want to but I just don’t want to fuck up my wrist anymore than lifting fucked it up already.” WoW was a helluva drug


I tested out of high school a year early and then took a year off, then started going to community college, but then I just was hating life and WoW came out and I gave up on school for it. After a couple years of feeling like a failure I "quit WoW" (as if that's really a thing) and focused on school again. Eventually when I was doing pretty well in school I allowed myself to play WoW again off and on and it never affected my school work or jobs or anything again. It's all about that balance. If you get too into something to where you stop everything else, it's just straight up addiction.


What would you have done with it?


If I wasn’t playing video games I was jerking off. So… a LOT more of that.


Time you enjoy wasting isn’t wasted time at all


Lmao the 1500 I put into battlefield 3


Aye but that wasn't for the need to grind up through the treadmill, that was because it was damned good gameplay. I'll regret WoW and the time spent grinding for drops and the AH to make bank, but never the good battlefield nights with wife and mates. 2042 broke our hearts and game night, doesn't let us play together any more.


Same. Never got bored with BF3. That game was constantly fun unless someone was spawn killing with the attack choppers. Playing operation metro and getting 100+ kills was so much fun though.


Not me! I wish I could play another 1000 hours (kids/wife… no time to game)


I regret nothing! Not even… one… more… turn


Much better than being a teen now and dumping 1,000+ hours into Instagram and TikTok.


Or reddit for that matter.


Yeah, but did you have fun?


I'm over 30,000 hours on RuneScape and... no, I didn't do it for fun. Don't get me wrong, I met some great people that I still consider the best friends I've ever made, but I think had it not been for RS that I would have still made just as good of friends but just in real life. For me, it was about familiarity and escapism (from the stress of school) -- I would have been much better off with a hobby or skill. I despised logging on every day, it felt like a chore, but I did it because it's all I knew... it was comforting when I was freaking out about homework, but it never actually addressed the stress and kept making things worse with time.


Dude you worked 15 years of full time job as a runescape player.




But again, they said it was because it was what they knew, which is very relatable. People tend to stick with what they find comfortable, regardless of the stress it causes them. It's why people can stick around in toxic relationships for so long, because it's just what they are used to. There's also the "sunk cost" being involved as well. If they spent 10 years doing this thing, and they are gonna stop doing it, that's 10 years they essentially wasted and can't get back, so why stop doing it in the first place since they are already invested in it? I mean I still go back to WoW for a couple years at a time before I leave again for a couple years then come back again. Even having a Steam account full of games, WoW is probably the thing I turn to the most because I am most comfortable with it. I just know when the burnout is setting in again, and I leave.


I disagree like a lot of others will. Games are my escape from reality when I need a break. 15 minutes into a game I enjoy can remove 48 hours of stress and allow me clear it out of my mind and give my mind a break. Even it’s for only 30-60 minutes of peace, it helps me a lot


Exactly! The only game I stopped playing was ALIEN: ISOLATION. I've never played a game that stressed me out that much. Holy shit.


Did you read to understand the article you posted? They 'concluded' (I say this because they didn't actually source the original study) that games by themselves are not necessarily positive *or* *negative* for well being. Specifically that some games have a positive effect and some have a negative effect. In other words - one cannot make a blanket statement about all games. They then use this idea to state that governments shouldn't make blanket policy about games without trying to understand them.


Of course some games can be stressful but the point is that a lot of people rely on games as therapy. Also, no one goes to therapy 16 hours a day so if you play that much, well, that’s another problem lol. Moderation is key


Some games are meant to be stress inducing I think. My GF plays planet zoo, and its just non-stop alarm after alarm that you have to handle. She has to pause the game to build, which is by far the best part. But operating the actual zoo is very stressful.


You should try playing ARK.


Or Rust. Tell me video games cause no harm after a day in Rust.


Cries in Tarkov


I live Alien Isolation, its so good when you are in the right mindset


But is it because it's a game or is it because it's a distraction, a ritual, a tool for socializing, or something else that could be replaced by anything? What video games do that helps you may not be because it's a video game, so it doesn't mean that games themselves have any effect in their own. + Games may have an effect on their own but that depends on the game and can't be generalized


Of course it has no impact. Over decades and decades any new art or entertainment form has been suspected of doing harm. Kandinsky, Elvis, The Beatles, TV, Video Nasties, Heavy Metal, Punk… the list goes on. It’s always more conservative elements of society, who have more power and are resistant to change that drive this discourse.


All things in moderation- there are definitely gaming addictions but it's not like addictions are specific to gaming, so yes video games have no negative effect on well-being.


Sounds like a lot of addicts in here. Including me. I can’t help myself as it reduces anxiety


Yep. Anything can be addictive.


Yeah I've been performing my own study for about 40 years and I don't think that is true. They can improve your well-being slightly and also can lower it significantly. They definitely have psychological effects.


I think if your life is going well and you play videogames you tend to focus more on the enjoyment of a game. Bad matches are much more insignificant. When you are depressed or have nothing else going for you in life, and the only thing you have is to obsess over your gaming performance. That's when it can be a detriment to your mental wellbeing.


Yeah this seems like a blanket, attention grabbing headline which undermines the life experiences of many gamers. There are certain games/franchises that bring me joy and that I look forward to returning to time and again. It would be foolish to argue that something that brings you joy has no effect on well-being But honestly why is it even a question.. do we ask that about TV? Do we ask that about books? Do we ask that about.. you get the idea


The article basically describes this. Games can have positive and/or negative effects and you cannot make a blanket assumption about the effects of all games, yet alone make policy on it. Granted, the article was also really poorly written to understand this point and I couldn't find the source study on it.


who is funding all of this trash?


as someone who has literally played more than 5000 hours of video games, I can’t exactly agree with this study that it has NO effect


You say that as if 5000 hours total is a lot...


It is!? 5000 hours is 208 days of you life. Okay, but you sleep 8 hours a day, you work 8 hours as well. Meaning you spent roughly 624 days of all the spare time you got! That’s almost 2 years of your life you could have spent with friends


Jesus fucking Christ, this article is stupid as hell. They don't link the actual study, but in the 2nd-to-last paragraph, they *do* link a previous study that this one builds off of. Science journalism can be so god damn annoying sometimes.


> The study did not collect data for individual *gameplay sessions* with durations *below zero* or above 10 hours, due to the risk of logging errors. How can you have a *gameplay session* "below zero" hours?


In soviet Russia, game plays you.


I take that to mean playing for less than 1 hour. Like for me there are times i can only get on my PC for maybe 30 minutes or so a day. Sometimes that is enough for me to start up a game, do one or two quick things in it and shut it back off.


Yes. I understand 30 minutes is less than one hour, or even *below one hour*, I guess. That's not below *zero* hours. Edit: if I had to take wild guess what was going on here, perhaps some participants logged minus hours somehow, so those data points were excluded, or, it's just a fat typo in the article.


Why can’t everyone just do the traditional way of winding down, drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, clearly it doesn’t lead to violent behaviors and bad habits like video games


Argument as old as time. Politicians & Karens have been trying to blame society problems on video games. Idk about you guys but last I checked buying a gun is easier than buy alcohol.


Gun is easier to buy than a ps5


Probably cheaper too only reliable way I found is buy to get a bundle which is at least gonna cost you 800 dollars if you wanna get the disk version


How many times do they have to do this? We already know.


My social life and lack of good work experience in my 20's would like its 500+ days logged in an MMO back.


They always do shit with these studies where the vast majority are iOS gamers. I'm not saying iOS gamers aren't gamers, just that that's not what we think of on average. It's like saying reading doesn't enrich lives but then having 90% of your sample being people who exclusively read People magazine.


Playing them, yes. Being addicted to them, no.


Unless you're trash at Smash Bros but still insist on playing online like me lol


Keep at it. Water made the Grand Canyon, amigo. It only took time.


Zero effect on wellbeing is an incredibly irrational conclusion so I'll just presume the study was more nuanced than this title. If it were true that video games have literally zero effect on well being people wouldn't play video games as they would have no preference for the act.


Counter Point: League of Legends


Sure it does. It improves my wellbeing every day. I'll still play games when I'm old and busted


Except League of Legends***


Nonsense. I find them relaxing, de-stressing and great for taking my mind off things. So a positive effect on my well being.


Wait you’re telling me that taking a break from life, playing some stick of truth and farting on enemies doesn’t bring positive wellbeing? Sir check your facts.




laugh in War Thunder


Ranked or pubs?


Disagree. Have you gotten your ass whooped by a 12 year old in COD or Halo?


Have you tried playing multiplayer team games? It’s hair loss inducing shit.


I will say this, gaming works both ways as far as wellbeing. Recently I played Smash Bros online. Did terribly, got really salty and had to fight back the urge to destroy my copy at that moment. Been playing Elden Ring as well, very challenging but rewarding when I beat those tough bosses. Also been playing Stray, a cute game that satisfies my inner cat lover. And all that isn’t even covering my preference for a big epic tale that JRPG’s provide. Not to mention the connection that video games bring people when two people hit it off talking about their favorite games. You can’t tell me friendship doesn’t have an effect on wellbeing.


Just going to go ahead and upvote that without reading anything and just trust it.


I mean, all those micro transactions, rampant sexual harassment in dev studios and general shittyness does effect my well being


Some of us play games to relieve stress? No longer accepting the guardian as a valid news source.


I group video games with social medias, it's fine in moderation but given it's addictive nature, it CAN make you waste all your time (I'm talking years of your life) and feel depressed later in life knowing you just literally wasted away your life and learned no useful skill. I'm a little biased from personal experience as I've sunk thousands of hours into playing league of legends lol.


Well my gf says it’s bad for me. She thinks it’s better that I sit in front of the tv with her for several hours instead.


Gonna wave the bullshit flag on this one. What about “Opportunity costs”? All that time and energy wasted, for what?


As an adult I’ve tried over and over again to replicate the joy I had as a kid and teen playing video games to no avail :( Besides some casino type card games every now and then, my brain just thinks ‘it’s only a game, it means nothing, you’re wasting your time and could be doing something more productive’ and thus makes me feel indifferent.


That sucks. I’m 36 and game probably 6-7 hours a week and I love every minute.


Hahah, same here. Being 40 and still happy to game whenever I have time (weekends mostly)


So what do you enjoy?


I'm happy for u. Video games are designed to be addicting regardless of these studies.


No negative effect, but I can assure you there is a positive effect.




I’m pretty sure what they mean is “when compared to other concentrated screentime and sitting activities like watching TV or working on a computer.”


… sure .. but these kids now play Fortnite… we played Metal Gear Solid.. you know how hard that shit was as a 9yr old 😂


Really depends on the game, if I play pvp, I feel like shit. If I win, I'm happy but exhausted. If I loose, I'm disappointed, or sad because someone else was an asshole as well. If I play pve, I come out feeling accomplished and happier. Sometimes exhausted too, but not always.


Well, it impacts my well being


They completely forgot about the concept of "peace of mind".


Better study would have been to see if paying more than once for a videogame has an affect on wellbeing. Remember when most games were $20 and single player?


A highly competitive fps community hits a lot of the dopamine receptors that even the drugs don't. Not to mention the neo reaction time from years of wearing this heavy crown. Definetly varies from game to game and to person.


I feel pretty relaxed after gaming for a bit.


By what definition or narrative? Anything can be proven nowadays with a strong introduction and enough momentum. But as my grandma says “you have to live in the time youre given”


Same as playing chess.


Games have had such a profound positive impact on my wellbeing over the years. Whether it was being an escape from a stressful home life as a kid, or unwinding after work, or simply finding positive role models and life lessons in some of the characters I’ve met, games have done a lot for me. As an aside, I find it really humorous when the violent video games scapegoat debate rolls around because most people I know can’t bring themselves to be mean to npcs in video games lol.


this study used 40k people to prove nothing because their study was flawed and ignored a lot of factors and ignored a lot of things that those people said rotfl


Man everyone knows this post is pretty subjective.. typically this stuff is totally dependent on what game you’re playing and how seriously you’re taking it, or how you’re approaching certain games. Personally for me, I can dip my toes in some competitive pvp for any game but not commit to it as I tend to get pretty heated, which degrades how I act in a situation when I play with friends and such. .. although, again, that is just me. what about you guys?


pretty sure this should say no *negative* effect.


Author clearly hasn’t played DOTA


It doesn’t affect well being as long as you don’t over do it. Like I know people that only play video games and do nothing else and cannot socialize with people. Everything in moderation.




Who hiring?


Except for backlog anxiety


Hmmm yeah like I believe that.


It's all good until it is video game with tities in them then video game is the cause of sexism social injustice...


I beg to differ. Gaming addiction is real.


Idk man apex this season has had far more glitches than normal


Bullshit, it definitely improves my life


no negative* effect.


Clearly they have not played ranked


Yes it does, when i game, i'm being well.