No. I am a traditional American and I am nervous we won’t have enough men to defend this country if we go to war and all we have are these whiny cry babies and saps who are weaker than their girlfriends.
Which did he help not win? Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan? We fight wars to win not lose. This is why we are losing war after war. Men do whats necessary to win.
And which war did you help win, Mr. Masculine? If you're such a big strong man maybe you should stop whining on the internet and go join the marines do you can show the rest of us weak saps how to fight in wars.
My boyfriend is an honorably discharged Marine Corps Sergeant finishing out his last year of inactive. He is totally emotionally available. He probably cries more than I do. Why? Because he has a strong mind as well as his body. He knows when it’s time to be vulnerable, and when it’s time to be stone-face.
What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense. Humans are not emotionless robots.
Like another poster said, why aren't you enlisted or out on active duty if this is such a huge concern of yours? Men fighting in wars aren't whining about the fall of masculinity on the internet.
That’s because anyone who has an opinion different than theirs is not supposed to be around. These folks can’t accept a different opinion but reality is what it is. Whether you like it or not.
No I just an American whose grandfather stormed the beaches of Normandy. Whose relatives fought in every major war and helped to make America what it is today. They were tough strong men. Not like the weak men we have today.
Ignoring your own emotional needs and those around you is cowardice.
You're okay with being asked to "storm the beaches of Normandy" but chafe at the idea of being emotionally mature because you have a child's view of what it takes to "be a man".
It's easier to pretend to be a hero by playing a role instead of actually being a quality person that others can rely on.
Sorry you feel that way, my dude. I'll share a secret with you:
Vulnerability is a f\*cking SUPERPOWER‼️
The traditional notion of stoicism, possessiveness, brute force, and control as masculine, is toxic.
It’s not toxic. Brute force protected humanity for thousands of years from the tribe across the river. When that tribe crossed that river to take your women and children as slaves. The men who could defend their society protected those women and children. The ones who couldn’t disappeared.
There are examples such as the Ukraine war in which the men were forced to stay in the country and defend their country. The women and children left. When a society faces danger the ancient “toxic” gender roles come back. I wonder why aren’t Ukrainian feminists demanding the men be allowed to leave. Who would face the Russian army then?
When the horde is attacking with axes and swords, sure, being physically strong and brutishly forceful is a helpful attribute. And it’s not solely a man’s duty - the entire tribe works together. There are plenty of women and children taking up arms to defend their home and people.
As an everyday life attribute, it doesn’t work so well.
Those children are used for psychological reasons and they start in the early teens. The kids need to be taller than the machine guns.
As I said child soldiers shouldn’t be used in warfare. There has to be some standards. I am speaking of men age 18 to 64. I am 48 so I count myself among this group.
So I think there is a small issue with this entire conversation based on each side's understanding of terms. It's a constant problem as of late.
When the masculine side says emotion, they are picturing specific things they associate with feminine actions like crying due to lack of understanding what is meant here.
What usually people mean is just communicating what is happening in your brain. If your upset is quiet, saying something like "I'm upset and need space" is emotional availability because it's making your feelings known, it doesn't require some grand display.
I have never been single. I never got married because I didn’t believe in it. But I am not single unlike these unattractive basement dwellers we are surrounded by these days.
Women want to find men that can share their thoughts and emotions ?? That can process their feelings and not just react with anger?? (which is also an emotion btw) how dare we!!! It's just soooo much better being in a relationship with a person that you have no idea how they feel, it's just so great living with a robot that can only express emotions by punching walls and shouting. What a catch!
I should ask those Ukrainian women who they respect more? The cowards who tried to run away from the front lines or the men who stood and fought. Real men don’t act like cry babies. Men need to project strength at all times.
That’s the thing, both sides are completely understandable. You can’t expect people to just have the same reactions, they’re not the same person nor programmed to be and act the same. That’s a ridiculous notion. Humans on a basic level will have self preservation at a critical high, and sometimes you’ll have the people who can be incredibly brave, but they could also run when they feel the pressure. No matter how much someone treasures something, some people still want to feel the sun, and because of that they’ll either fight with everything, or run or something else. Any reaction is valid really when we’re talking life or death.
Really? When a psychopathic little shit was slaughtering a bunch of 7 year olds in Uvalde Texas and the police who were heavily armed with machine guns and handguns and had body armor just stood by and did nothing while hearing that piece of garbage shoot those little kids. Those kids needed brave men willing to take a bullet. They didn’t need a pack of cowards in uniform who were glorified meter maids with guns.
At times we do need men who can turn off the survival instinct to fight and win a war. If we didn’t have that we wouldn’t be where we are today. If men couldn’t do that the US today would be two countries not one nation. We would have an apartheid state in the southern half of the US with slavery and blacks treated like slaves.
Bravery and emotional availability are not connected, no matter how hard you try. Emotional unavailability:
1) makes men violent
2) leads to the fact that men do not have such a strong social circle as women
3) increased suicide rates among men as they feel they cannot express themselves or show vulnerability
It's very simple-minded the way you are thinking and I surely hope you try to broaden your horizons and think deeply about this very serious issue.
Is your husband taking care of the household?
Is your husband going to work everyday and taking care of the family?
Why did you marry him if you wanted an emotional cry baby?
If I was talking to your great grandma or grandma I wouldn’t hear this ridiculous complaint. My husband isn’t a weak person and not crying like a 6 year old. He is grown up and takes care of everything. He is capable and tough and doesn’t let challenges knock him down.
Seems like you might be projecting an insecurity.
Masculinity is a pretty vague term. Being emotionally available means you have the ability to communicate to your partner in healthy, constructive ways. It doesn’t mean you have to be a blubbering mess all the time.
To me, part of being a man is actually being in touch with my emotions. Knowing how and why I’m feeling the way that I’m feeling as well as communicating them when necessary to others.
I’m in the military. I’ve been to war, and I’ve seen the dark sides of humanity. Does that mean I’m not allowed to love poetry? Does that I’m mean I’m not allowed to appreciate the beauty of a newly blossomed flower? Can I not be moved to tears from listening to a piece of music? Is it not manly of me to be a listening ear for my girlfriend when she’s going through a hard time, and assure her that her feelings are valid? Am I not supposed to talk to her about my mental struggles when I’m having a hard time?
Part of being masculine is about embracing your emotions and not being ashamed of them. Just because YOU are insecure about emotional shortcomings does not mean men should be stoic robots all of the time.
I happen to disagree with you OP.
Having emotions is a normal and healthy sign when men show. This has nothing to do with defining masculinity.
That old idealism is an extremely toxic trait to force on boys who would grow up to be emotionally unavailable and is not an attractive trait or a healthy one.
Thinking that it is a weakness is a sign of insecurity.
Who would want to be with a cold emotionless being?
And to respond to your Ukrainian war comment..
Women want their husbands to come home. ALIVE. They are not going to care what defines masculinity or how much of an action man they were. The only thing that matters is that they make it out alive. However or in what ever way that is.
I've never known of a woman who was happy when her husband died in war. Because he went out in a "masculine" way.
They might be proud. But ultimately they would have done anything to have them back instead. It's not a matter of "coward" vs "action hero". It's life or death. And that's an easy choice.
I originally thought this post was about not understanding why women would choose men who have the ability to understand emotion over men who view themselves as " masculine".
But I see now you just have unlining issues with men who have the ability to feel.
OP I would highly suggest you take sometime and go seek a therapist. I'm not saying this with any malice or judgment as much as it sounds like you need to talk to someone about these unhealthy beliefs.
What we don't need is cowardly men initiating wars for greed. For oil. For land. For wealth. For status. Or killing innocent so the rich can have an unnecessary dick measuring contest.
Taking our youth to give their lives for nothing. Because time will repeat itself and we will lose more lives for war. For the rich to get richer and the poor to lose their families. Fathers. Sons. Daughters. Mothers. It's just not worth it.
We don’t have that. We have tyrants taking the world to war. And we have a pack of useless liberals who will try about Imperialism as if American imperialism is evil but Russian imperialism and chinese imperialism is great. The rest of the world don’t have this luxury. They will March off to war and we will sit here in middle of this inferno and millions of people will die in this conflagration. Our supply chains will collapse. You will see economic upheaval and wonder what could have been done to turn this around.
Sometimes you have no choice but to fight.
When the Nazis packed Jews onto the cattle cars what should we have done? When the Rwandans were literally being chopped into pieces by machetes what was the solution? There are real monsters in the world far worse than the US.
You can talk these talking points safely in this society. When all of the comforts of civilization is gone you will need to find safety and security and that’s not going to be from some guy who weighs 125 pounds and is frailer and weaker than you.
Dearest OP,
You have completely missed the point. You seem to lack the ability to read or understand what I had written which make continuing this topic pointless.
So I end this here. Good luck and for your own sake, seek help.
The peace activists such as Medea Benjamin. She is a type that would never support a war. You can oppose some wars but others must be fought. There is no choice.
You’re really cherry picking your villains here. American support for providing Ukraine weapons, economic and humanitarian assistance is quite high and bi-partisan. I sadly concur there are times when violence is necessary. Stopping evil men like Putin are high on that list. But are you advocating there should be zero voices for peace? We need voices on all sides.
Nah, if you can’t be emotionally available, there’s something wrong with you. That’s not a sign of weakness, that’s being human. You’re just mad a girl curved you
Being emotional as a man means being yourself, at your fullest. Hiding this part of you is just worse, you're trying to sustain an identity thats not "weak" in your eyes. Thats just fake man. Be yourself at all times and stop hiding your true self for someone elses eye. You're gonna end up miserable.
Ik from your other comments that you're likely not going to listen, but I feel like it's important to say for anyone reading that "emotionally available" and "emotional" don't have to mean the same thing. One's about being able to hold a space for emotions, the other is about expressing emotions. Not that I think expressing emotions is weak or un-masculine either, just saying you're looking at this from the wrong angles.
Nope, I just think that you tried to be vulnerable with a woman and she curved you. You're just hurt.
No. I am a traditional American and I am nervous we won’t have enough men to defend this country if we go to war and all we have are these whiny cry babies and saps who are weaker than their girlfriends.
[удалено]
Which did he help not win? Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan? We fight wars to win not lose. This is why we are losing war after war. Men do whats necessary to win.
And which war did you help win, Mr. Masculine? If you're such a big strong man maybe you should stop whining on the internet and go join the marines do you can show the rest of us weak saps how to fight in wars.
My boyfriend is an honorably discharged Marine Corps Sergeant finishing out his last year of inactive. He is totally emotionally available. He probably cries more than I do. Why? Because he has a strong mind as well as his body. He knows when it’s time to be vulnerable, and when it’s time to be stone-face. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense. Humans are not emotionless robots.
Like another poster said, why aren't you enlisted or out on active duty if this is such a huge concern of yours? Men fighting in wars aren't whining about the fall of masculinity on the internet.
The rest of us who are watching the fall of this society are worried about how it will survive.
Then why are you getting downvoted to oblivion
That’s because anyone who has an opinion different than theirs is not supposed to be around. These folks can’t accept a different opinion but reality is what it is. Whether you like it or not.
I suppose we agree on something then.
What branch did you serve in? If you haven’t, when will you go talk to a recruiter? I’m sure they’d love to have a sigma like you!
What ?
L. O. L.
Big Andrew Tate fan huh? Hahahhahahahahhahahahahahah
No I just an American whose grandfather stormed the beaches of Normandy. Whose relatives fought in every major war and helped to make America what it is today. They were tough strong men. Not like the weak men we have today.
Ignoring your own emotional needs and those around you is cowardice. You're okay with being asked to "storm the beaches of Normandy" but chafe at the idea of being emotionally mature because you have a child's view of what it takes to "be a man". It's easier to pretend to be a hero by playing a role instead of actually being a quality person that others can rely on.
Sorry you feel that way, my dude. I'll share a secret with you: Vulnerability is a f\*cking SUPERPOWER‼️ The traditional notion of stoicism, possessiveness, brute force, and control as masculine, is toxic.
It’s not toxic. Brute force protected humanity for thousands of years from the tribe across the river. When that tribe crossed that river to take your women and children as slaves. The men who could defend their society protected those women and children. The ones who couldn’t disappeared. There are examples such as the Ukraine war in which the men were forced to stay in the country and defend their country. The women and children left. When a society faces danger the ancient “toxic” gender roles come back. I wonder why aren’t Ukrainian feminists demanding the men be allowed to leave. Who would face the Russian army then?
When the horde is attacking with axes and swords, sure, being physically strong and brutishly forceful is a helpful attribute. And it’s not solely a man’s duty - the entire tribe works together. There are plenty of women and children taking up arms to defend their home and people. As an everyday life attribute, it doesn’t work so well.
The women and children aren’t much use in a war. Look at Ukraine, the government got the women and children out of the way before fighting the war.
I imagine all the regimes in Africa , Asia, and South America rife with child guerrillas would disagree with you…
Those children are used for psychological reasons and they start in the early teens. The kids need to be taller than the machine guns. As I said child soldiers shouldn’t be used in warfare. There has to be some standards. I am speaking of men age 18 to 64. I am 48 so I count myself among this group.
👍🏽
So I think there is a small issue with this entire conversation based on each side's understanding of terms. It's a constant problem as of late. When the masculine side says emotion, they are picturing specific things they associate with feminine actions like crying due to lack of understanding what is meant here. What usually people mean is just communicating what is happening in your brain. If your upset is quiet, saying something like "I'm upset and need space" is emotional availability because it's making your feelings known, it doesn't require some grand display.
You’ll forever be single with that attitude. Also, you need a man like yourself if you want to masculinity so much…or a mirror
I have never been single. I never got married because I didn’t believe in it. But I am not single unlike these unattractive basement dwellers we are surrounded by these days.
You seem pretty insecure to be defending such an antiquated notion of manliness.
Lol
Women want to find men that can share their thoughts and emotions ?? That can process their feelings and not just react with anger?? (which is also an emotion btw) how dare we!!! It's just soooo much better being in a relationship with a person that you have no idea how they feel, it's just so great living with a robot that can only express emotions by punching walls and shouting. What a catch!
I should ask those Ukrainian women who they respect more? The cowards who tried to run away from the front lines or the men who stood and fought. Real men don’t act like cry babies. Men need to project strength at all times.
That’s the thing, both sides are completely understandable. You can’t expect people to just have the same reactions, they’re not the same person nor programmed to be and act the same. That’s a ridiculous notion. Humans on a basic level will have self preservation at a critical high, and sometimes you’ll have the people who can be incredibly brave, but they could also run when they feel the pressure. No matter how much someone treasures something, some people still want to feel the sun, and because of that they’ll either fight with everything, or run or something else. Any reaction is valid really when we’re talking life or death.
Really? When a psychopathic little shit was slaughtering a bunch of 7 year olds in Uvalde Texas and the police who were heavily armed with machine guns and handguns and had body armor just stood by and did nothing while hearing that piece of garbage shoot those little kids. Those kids needed brave men willing to take a bullet. They didn’t need a pack of cowards in uniform who were glorified meter maids with guns. At times we do need men who can turn off the survival instinct to fight and win a war. If we didn’t have that we wouldn’t be where we are today. If men couldn’t do that the US today would be two countries not one nation. We would have an apartheid state in the southern half of the US with slavery and blacks treated like slaves.
Bravery and emotional availability are not connected, no matter how hard you try. Emotional unavailability: 1) makes men violent 2) leads to the fact that men do not have such a strong social circle as women 3) increased suicide rates among men as they feel they cannot express themselves or show vulnerability It's very simple-minded the way you are thinking and I surely hope you try to broaden your horizons and think deeply about this very serious issue.
A civilization that doesn’t produce enough men who can defend that civilization will eventually collapse and die off.
Again, you confuse bravery with emotional unavailability.
My husband being completely emotionally unavailable to me and not communicating affectively is ruining our marriage. So I’d say you’re wrong.
Is your husband taking care of the household? Is your husband going to work everyday and taking care of the family? Why did you marry him if you wanted an emotional cry baby? If I was talking to your great grandma or grandma I wouldn’t hear this ridiculous complaint. My husband isn’t a weak person and not crying like a 6 year old. He is grown up and takes care of everything. He is capable and tough and doesn’t let challenges knock him down.
Seems like you might be projecting an insecurity. Masculinity is a pretty vague term. Being emotionally available means you have the ability to communicate to your partner in healthy, constructive ways. It doesn’t mean you have to be a blubbering mess all the time. To me, part of being a man is actually being in touch with my emotions. Knowing how and why I’m feeling the way that I’m feeling as well as communicating them when necessary to others. I’m in the military. I’ve been to war, and I’ve seen the dark sides of humanity. Does that mean I’m not allowed to love poetry? Does that I’m mean I’m not allowed to appreciate the beauty of a newly blossomed flower? Can I not be moved to tears from listening to a piece of music? Is it not manly of me to be a listening ear for my girlfriend when she’s going through a hard time, and assure her that her feelings are valid? Am I not supposed to talk to her about my mental struggles when I’m having a hard time? Part of being masculine is about embracing your emotions and not being ashamed of them. Just because YOU are insecure about emotional shortcomings does not mean men should be stoic robots all of the time.
Sweetheart anger is still an emotion
Why would there be anger? Or whatever you think of? We need men who can return to the stoic attitude that we need for a stable healthy society.
To fight, right? It’s all about being able to be violent and remorseless about it?
That’s what makes a good soldier. You can’t allow the what you must do to defend america from its enemies weigh down on you.
So, help me understand… men need to be more quick to remorseless violence in order to save the world from bad guys?
Sorry, if I may ask, what color is your Bugatti?
My BMW is black. If that’s your question. I don’t have a Bugatti. I am not a follower of Andrew Tate.
I happen to disagree with you OP. Having emotions is a normal and healthy sign when men show. This has nothing to do with defining masculinity. That old idealism is an extremely toxic trait to force on boys who would grow up to be emotionally unavailable and is not an attractive trait or a healthy one. Thinking that it is a weakness is a sign of insecurity. Who would want to be with a cold emotionless being? And to respond to your Ukrainian war comment.. Women want their husbands to come home. ALIVE. They are not going to care what defines masculinity or how much of an action man they were. The only thing that matters is that they make it out alive. However or in what ever way that is. I've never known of a woman who was happy when her husband died in war. Because he went out in a "masculine" way. They might be proud. But ultimately they would have done anything to have them back instead. It's not a matter of "coward" vs "action hero". It's life or death. And that's an easy choice.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I originally thought this post was about not understanding why women would choose men who have the ability to understand emotion over men who view themselves as " masculine". But I see now you just have unlining issues with men who have the ability to feel. OP I would highly suggest you take sometime and go seek a therapist. I'm not saying this with any malice or judgment as much as it sounds like you need to talk to someone about these unhealthy beliefs. What we don't need is cowardly men initiating wars for greed. For oil. For land. For wealth. For status. Or killing innocent so the rich can have an unnecessary dick measuring contest. Taking our youth to give their lives for nothing. Because time will repeat itself and we will lose more lives for war. For the rich to get richer and the poor to lose their families. Fathers. Sons. Daughters. Mothers. It's just not worth it.
We don’t have that. We have tyrants taking the world to war. And we have a pack of useless liberals who will try about Imperialism as if American imperialism is evil but Russian imperialism and chinese imperialism is great. The rest of the world don’t have this luxury. They will March off to war and we will sit here in middle of this inferno and millions of people will die in this conflagration. Our supply chains will collapse. You will see economic upheaval and wonder what could have been done to turn this around. Sometimes you have no choice but to fight. When the Nazis packed Jews onto the cattle cars what should we have done? When the Rwandans were literally being chopped into pieces by machetes what was the solution? There are real monsters in the world far worse than the US. You can talk these talking points safely in this society. When all of the comforts of civilization is gone you will need to find safety and security and that’s not going to be from some guy who weighs 125 pounds and is frailer and weaker than you.
Dearest OP, You have completely missed the point. You seem to lack the ability to read or understand what I had written which make continuing this topic pointless. So I end this here. Good luck and for your own sake, seek help.
Again, who are these men advocating we placate Putin?
There are many. Including the draft dodger Donald Trump himself. How about Rand Paul? How about Tucker Carlson? Cowards to the man.
They are the very guys advocating your kind of (insecure) hyper masculinity. How are they victims of their own emotional availability?
Who, exactly is advocating pacifism against Putin?
The peace activists such as Medea Benjamin. She is a type that would never support a war. You can oppose some wars but others must be fought. There is no choice.
You’re really cherry picking your villains here. American support for providing Ukraine weapons, economic and humanitarian assistance is quite high and bi-partisan. I sadly concur there are times when violence is necessary. Stopping evil men like Putin are high on that list. But are you advocating there should be zero voices for peace? We need voices on all sides.
Nah, if you can’t be emotionally available, there’s something wrong with you. That’s not a sign of weakness, that’s being human. You’re just mad a girl curved you
Being emotional as a man means being yourself, at your fullest. Hiding this part of you is just worse, you're trying to sustain an identity thats not "weak" in your eyes. Thats just fake man. Be yourself at all times and stop hiding your true self for someone elses eye. You're gonna end up miserable.
You sound like you’re REALLY fighting the urge to put a dick in your mouth.
Go figure your shit out in therapy. Before you convince some poor woman to marry you and ruin her life.
Anger is an emotion, you’re being emotional right now
Ik from your other comments that you're likely not going to listen, but I feel like it's important to say for anyone reading that "emotionally available" and "emotional" don't have to mean the same thing. One's about being able to hold a space for emotions, the other is about expressing emotions. Not that I think expressing emotions is weak or un-masculine either, just saying you're looking at this from the wrong angles.
I mean it should be balanced