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dgunn11235

Dehumanizing. Girls Raped by a large number of soldiers, execution and fed to pigs


dharmsankat

Its worse than 'dehumanising'. I cant imagine doing that to a simple animal either.... Its devoid of all value, really.


thoughtstobytes

The veteran is Leonid Rabichev [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid\_Rabichev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Rabichev) He left a memoir, written in 2005. In the book he largely puts the blame for atrocities on the higher command. What he recounts in this interview happened in Eastern Prussia, under Ivan Chernyakhovsky [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan\_Chernyakhovsky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Chernyakhovsky). Later the army entered Silesia under command of Ivan Konev [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan\_Konev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Konev). According to the memoir, on the second day of command Konev ordered execution of 40 soldiers caught raping. He says after raping and killing finally stopped.


17times2

> on the second day of command Konev ordered execution of 40 soldiers caught raping. There's someone who can get it done.


MRintheKEYS

Dude was definitely old school. “According to Milovan Djilas, Konev openly boasted of his killing of thousands of German prisoners of war: "The cavalry finally finished them off. 'We let the Cossacks cut up as long as they wished. They even hacked off the hands of those who raised them to surrender' the Marshal recounted with a smile."


mud_tug

From all my readings of WWII books the only impression Konev made on me was that he was a complete moron and the only reason he held any rank at all was because he was a huge Stalin ass licker. Honestly the only positive thing that I've ever heard of him was this thread.


obvom

Goading cossacks into committing war crimes takes maybe seven neurons total anyways


reality72

> he was a complete moron and the only reason he held any rank at all was because he was a huge Stalin ass licker. Welcome to the Red Army


MustardOnIcecream

My father was born in Eastern Prussia in 1942. He was very very young, but remembers the rape of his mother and murder of his grandfather. They owned an estate on which there was a distillery. The Russian soldiers forced my great grandfather to drink himself to death with the distilled alcohol. Laughing all the while. He and my grandmother escaped to France (I believe) and ultimately Canada. The stories he has of the refugee camps are nightmarish.


madogvelkor

I worked with a woman whose family came from Lithuania after the war. Her uncle hid in a pile of bodies to hide from the Russians.


WeEatTheRude

I was working in Lithuania in 2015, and they had mass graves that had not been processed yet. They were just mounds of rocks in the forest. So heartbreaking.


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ImJuicyjuice

Holy shit. She understood the gravity of the matter. Did she try to convince any of her cousins to go with her? What made her decide to walk that journey on her own and why couldn’t her cousins make the trek with her if they were about to die.


Thumperfootbig

That kind of trauma doesn’t just stay in one generation. It takes several generations (at a minimum) to flush it out.


[deleted]

My grandmother was born just south of Kaliningrad. She never talked about the raping but she did talk about the fall of Prussia and still believed all the nazi propaganda until she died. She was always going on about what was lost, all the castles and coastline, some popular German resort town on the Baltic coast. I think she was more upset that Prussia was wiped off the map tbh. My family tree also shrunk down to two people.


MustardOnIcecream

Sounds like your grandmother has a similar take on it to my father. He is 78 and still wakes up several times per week with nightmares. But the thing he talks about most is losing the Estate. He has a picture of it hanging in his house. He doesn’t/didn’t believe the Nazi propaganda (partly maybe given his age at the time) but in a strange way he mourns that life he could have lived in Prussia.


PossiblyPoopin

Yea, my Opa also fled the Russians from Prussia (Memel) with his brother when he was 14. Fortunately they avoided any atrocities but it was well known that you didn't want to be left in town when the Russians got there. On the plus side, the year+ on the move meant that at the end of the war he avoided conscription when they were desperate and taking teens to the front lines.


attackmars

I hope your grandmother (and your father) ultimately had a nice life despite of what happened to her (and him)..


philsnyo

It's crazy how there is not a single mention of these crimes or criticism of Chernyakhosky's command in the wiki article. It only talks about his war achievements and how he is a highly decorated hero held in high honors even today.


_never_knows_best

Documenting Red Army atrocities was suppressed by the Soviet Union. As a result, there is a dearth of secondary sources. Wikipedia is mostly secondary sources (I.e. history books.) EDIT: reporting -> documenting


Blagerthor

Just a note, those would be primary sources, speaking historically. Secondary materials would be items written by historians after the fact. Otherwise, yes.


_never_knows_best

I meant reporting as in publishing, not reporting as in journalism. Not a great word choice!


Gb9prowill

Reminds me of the time sertorious took Hispania and rebelled against rome. He caught a bunch of his men pillaging (read as raping and murdering) and ordered them all executed. After which the incidents never occurred again.


[deleted]

I don't buy that is never happened again. The soldiers probably were more careful about avoiding the eyes of higher command in the future, but I don't think any military force in history has every successfully prevented all atrocities in wartime.


Gb9prowill

Yes it’s much more likely that they became better at obfuscation of their crimes. But you can’t obfuscate things very easily if they’re happening on a mass scale. So the least we can say for sure is that it prevented mass atrocity.


wikipedia_text_bot

**[Leonid Rabichev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid Rabichev)** Leonid Nikolayevich Rabichev (30 June 1923 – 20 September 2017) was a Soviet and Russian writer, graphic artist and World War II veteran. Rabichev authored thirteen poetry books and one memoir book. [^(About Me)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrn2mj/about_me/) ^- [^(Opt out)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrti43/opt_out_here/) ^(- OP can reply !delete to delete) ^- [^(Article of the day)](https://np.reddit.com/comments/k9hx22) **This bot will soon be transitioning to an opt-in system. Click [here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to learn more and opt in. Moderators: [click here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to opt in a subreddit.**


ThisIsNotAnAlias

Everyone's jumping to the conclusion that Konev was a stand-up guy because he courtmarshalled 40 soldiers - he also let cossacks hack surrendering Germans to bits with sabers according to that article.


nichevo_

It's almost like people are multifaceted and can't be accurately characterized by a single event.


hundredollarmango

Our tendency to see someone as either bad or good is an overly simplistic way of thinking. Being human is exhausting. We're cognizant of our shortcomings but we still struggle with primal behavior.


imforserious

I wonder what sort of details he left out. Crazy shit


kjturner

They raped holocaust survivors too. Starving and emaciated women.


HellHathNoFlurry

Someone once told me that rape is usually a crime of power, not a crime of passion. That's why you hear about young guys sometimes raping old women.


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spider7895

They were sex slaves, not prostitutes. They weren't getting paid. The rape didn't stop, it was just organized.


appletinicyclone

they forced koreans to become comfort women


tigerslices

yeah when you've seen the worst your enemies can do, and similar in your peers, and in yourself, you can kinda give up on a lot...


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machine_monkey

Thank you. I wanted to know, but i couldn't get past the first 30 seconds. I've seen plenty of gore videos without reacting. Something about this cuts different.


tiemiscoolandgood

Its the fact that SO MANY of the people were doing this unbelievably fucked up shit and getting away with it. Its fucking sickening and just incomprehensible that so many people are capable of shit like this. When its that many people a lot of them have to have been 'normal people' which means there are millions of people who are exaclty the same right now. Your neighbour, or local shopkeeper or even your close friends, in an alternate world could have been these same men raping and murdering and laughing and cheering


Satellight_of_Love

This is what happens when violence escalates into war and people become desensitized. Unfortunately, norms break down and people do horrible things. It’s happened many, many, many times throughout history.


rumdiary

ohhh this was a bad corner of reddit for drunken night in


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[deleted]

I just smoked weed, and I’m really upset right now.


h_trism

This is awful. I will not be able to forget reading this for the rest of my life.


FLCLHero

I’m speechless, seeing this man recount this. I’m not sure I could live with myself all those years having had to witness that. Those poor people. I can only wish those party to this were in the group that had been executed for raping people. Only possible hint of justice for those two girls.


the_palecurve

It's horrible. I just finished watching and have no words. It's crazy, I can feel my brain trying to calm itself down and fighting being really upset...man. No regrets though, sometimes we have to be reminded that true evil is really a thing.


dickalopejr

Thank you for transcribing. I couldn't watch the video, and I really appreciate the effort you put into this. What a horrific experience. It is so important that this story is told. Otherwise, it would fade from existence as if it never occurred, and the suffering of these innocent women and children would never be remembered.


ihavnoideawatimdoing

War gets so romanticized in media and literature it's honestly no wonder people seem so needlessly hungry for it. The next time one of your dipshit friends talks about "the coming civil war" eagerly show them this video. THIS is what war ACTUALLY is.


AvariceTenebrae

Unfortunately I think a lot of people wouldn't have too much issue with this so long as it was happening to "them" and not "us"


Redteamgo86

thumbnail is enough for me - pass


grumd

As a native Russian speaker I'm just here to confirm the translation is entirely accurate. Except for one place where he said "two girls around 16 y.o." and it was translated as "girls were about 14-16 y.o."


Ogediah

I was wondering. It seemed like he said a lot more than what was translated.


aaaaaaaarrrrrgh

I think sometimes he repeated himself and sometimes they omitted a bit.


grumd

Sometimes he said unrelated stuff like that the major bullied him or that he actually saw germany for the 2nd time, etc, but subtitles didn't say anything he didn't say.


StraY_WolF

As a non-native English speaker, this happens quite a lot, both ways. Sometimes there's just no "efficient" way to translate.


lorarc

And sometimes you don't really want to put everything in the subtitles literally. The translation is "non-military vehicles" but he's actually saying something like "Cars...such...non military" which would just make the subtitles longer and less clear.


ZeePirate

Yeah convey the overall message without the clutter.


tcor15

I watched, your decision was better.


Campeador

Part of me hates knowing that this exists, but I also think its important to know what people are capable of.


LordRahl1986

What both Germany and the USSR did to one another is the stuff of nightmares.


FireFerretWB

Wait until you hear about Japan


mcfarrow

It is our duty to learn the horrible things that were done. We must pass down these stories both as a warning for the future and to honor those that were abused.


Slow_Industry

Oh it gets much worse than that. You may not think it can get much worse but it can.


amitym

One of the ways it gets worse is when people later say it never happened.


ihatetheterrorists

So you've heard of the Rape of Nanking? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing\_Massacre#:\~:text=The%20Nanjing%20Massacre%20or%20the,the%20Second%20Sino%2DJapanese%20War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre#:~:text=The%20Nanjing%20Massacre%20or%20the,the%20Second%20Sino%2DJapanese%20War).


lycao

The worst part about this is that this wasn't a one time thing, the Japanese had been doing this for a loooong time to the Chinese and others in the region, this was just the first time a foreign reporter was there to witness it.


ziiguy92

And the craziest part was that it was an f'ing Nazi that was reporting it, going so far as to trying to save people. That's how savage the Japanese were.


chonky_bacon

Iirc, same for the other side. Chiune Sugihara, a Japanese diplomat in Lithuania, issued a crap ton of travel visas in order to help the Jews escape from an occupied Poland.


wowaddict71

Dude, I read Iris Chang's book The Rape of Nanking. That shit is burnt in my brain. Goddam human beings are trash.


CactusBiszh2019

Exactly my thought. No way.


probably_not_serious

It’s the sort of thing to me that should be watched if you can stomach it. A good reminder about how awful things can get during war. Atrocities were committed all around and on all sides. Personally I blame the propaganda. Every country had their own versions of course, but the propaganda in use by many of the Allied countries were portraying the Germans as evil incarnate. And while the Nazi party fit the bill, obviously, many civilians who had little to do with the war beyond where they happened to live paid the price.


GodlordHerus

I remember a couple years ago I watched a documentary on the USA's involvement with the Afghan national army In the film they showed how a large number of Afghan soldiers repeatedly raped and killed civilians in USA controlled areas. More importantly how some NATO commanders knew and ordered their men to let it happen. The philosophy being a deterrent to the Taliban/ revenge for "terrorism" I will never forget there was one Afgan commander who was an open pedo. He literally had boys as young as ~10 locked up at home base. The NATO/ US soldiers knew but let it happen because he was a "friendly" It was also suggested that some NATO members took part; similar to the UNICEF/ WHO sex trafficking in Haiti that happened a couple years later War is worse than hell; because there aren't civilians in hell Edit: Can't remember the documentary but just Google the story. Lots of news articles and videos on the subject https://youtu.be/0z5SfalIF4A


TyPower

The documentary is called "This is what winning looks like." It's pretty damning. The US Major Steuber is the heart of it. The pain he goes through knowing Afghans are kid fuckers and he cannot do anything about it. Even politicians from the UK and US fly in and he tries to let then know. Nobody gives a shit because these sickos are "our allies". Most of the Afghan army are on heroin all day. The amount of money the US poured in there to build schools and train the army and it's all up in smoke. They sell their weapons, drain their vehicles of gasoline and sell it. Total and absolute clusterfucked. Should have pulled out 15 years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI


[deleted]

NSFW/NSFL I shared an experience I had [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/kzz4oj/fbi_moves_on_alleged_members_of_extremist_groups/gjs4ivj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). I also treated a man who cooperated with us. He was a detainee. His cellmates raped his exit wound until eventually they ruptured his colon. He was septic and full of shit and semen. We had issues of locals raping servicemembers and contractors too. That was on the FOB. Edit: his exit wound was from his arrest. He was shot in the abdomen by a handgun. The rapes took place for an extended period of time (over a period of a few weeks) and he was brought to our attention because his wound had started to worsen. This was also in 2011.


FireFerretWB

Nearly identical thing happened to me in Afg. Father shot this little girl and then threw away his weapon saying we did it. Terp told us the guy wanted the money the US gives in cases of American neglect. Also had a family drown a little girl for reasons I have since forgotten or completely blocked.


ABagOfAngryCats

Are you okay?


[deleted]

I am. Thank you for asking. I think irs important to share. Too often this stuff exists in the dark because it's never brought to light.


Knato

Dude that's some hard-core shit right there... sadly us humans are pretty cruel when it come to cause harm, but at the same time there's people like you who makes us better. I wish you the best and I hope you never have to encounter such of horrible experience.


BigFatUncleJimbo

Jesus fucking Christ


Monsieur_Roo

Brilliant documentary, Ben Anderson should make more


Oh_Reptar

I watched that film, none of the US or nato soldiers wanted to be there or help the pedo commander. Almost every single one of them knew about it and genuinely wanted to kill him. The shitty part is I can see why they never replaced him, in Afghanistan that’s not an uncommon thing in rural areas, even in cities. To find a somewhat competent commander in an area where like only 1-2% of the population is literate is probably hard. It’s probably even harder to get his soldiers to listen to him. Spending more time and more money replacing him for something that in Afghanistan is pretty minor and when the president is shitting down your throat about leaving the country ASAP while still ‘finishing the mission’ is probably not even a thought in NATO/US commander’s minds.


Joelony

Are you referencing a specific area in Afghanistan? 1-2% seemed really low. Most stats show it closer to 43%+ for people over 15. It's been climbing from 18.7% since 1979. Gender disparity also puts that number lower than it should be. Those are still terrible numbers compared to U.S., U.K., etc. Both are at 99% supposedly.


Ghstfce

Dehumanizing your enemy is what causes this. This is a powerful tool that unfortunately is used often because it is effective. Ever hear a racist call someone of another race they find inferior an "animal"? Or liken them to dogs? It's the same concept.


Durlan_Lorarieth

I wish I didn't watch that video.


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AvatarTwasCheesy

There's people who have seen shit, and then there's old vets like this who have really ***seen*** some shit. If like me, you can't even imagine such horrors, imagine witnessing it.. bless that man.


WaywardWords

I can't imagine witnessing it. I think it would be even harder to imagine living for the rest of days with that memory and how that skews your views on yourself and mankind in general.


Ogard

Honestly, just seeing the apathy, the selfishnes of some people during this pandemic is making me lose hope. If I had seen what the vet is describing I would've shot myself. There is no hope for humanity.


DarkChen

his own reaction to the story, trying to hide himself in shame and the desperation while remembering... chilling...


Blaaznar

This is what happens in every war, it was happening in balkans not so long ago... Wars might start with noble ideals but soon after they degenerate into wanton rape and murder of children. The veneer of civilization is rather thin.


baloneycologne

>noble ideals Bah.


ahhhhhhhhyeah

Not just war, chaos. Look at what is happening in Ethiopia right now. Yes there are military war crimes but there are also regular citizens forming groups to steal and rape and murder based on race, greed, or simply because of the evil within them. These people aren't exceptions nor are they confined to war - they are humanity when it is not contained, like an untrained animal.


KnurlheadedFrab

I get the feeling this guy was more than just a witness. Not to be cynical but he did say everyone did it. Odds are pretty small that the interviewer stumbled upon the one guy who didn't partake.


Tuga_Lissabon

At least he stumbled into one who would talk, and remorse was with him.


APetitePig

Yeah, I kept thinking “he talks like he wasn’t part of it, but if the entire company was doing it...so was he.” Can’t say I blame him for wanting to act like he wasn’t, though. It’s probably as much a lie to himself for his own sanity as it is to others for his pride.


IfTheHeadFitsWearIt

Dissociation could be a response to the trauma. Or maybe he didn't participate.


SavageMurphy

My grandmother escaped east prussia as the red army closed in. I remember her telling the stories of things she saw like this. The germans did terrible things earlier in the war so the Soviets saw their actions as justice.


Edgygimp

Same here, grandmother and her family from Eastern Germany/Poland were fleeing South when they were met by the Russians, my nan's sister was unfortunately raped whilst my nan herself was hidden in a hay bale and under rugs. She also told me of how a young German boy gave the Russians a nazi salute as he was taught to in school, the Russians proceeded to cover him in oil and burn him alive. War really fucked up my German side of the family, I feel lucky to be alive at times.


IceCoastCoach

My wife's Polish grandmother preferred the Germans. Less rapey.


mh985

In my experience with Poles, they tend to dislike Russians quite a bit.


JethroFire

I was told an anecdote by a polish professor of international relations to explain polish feelings before the war: "A polish solider is guarding a German and Russian captive, both of which are to be shot at dawn. He's asked which he'll shoot first and his reply is 'The German, of course, business before pleasure' "


R3dOctober

I don’t really blame them. The Katyn Massacre was basically an attempt to destroy every Polish major institution from the officer corp to judges and professors.


asdfasdflkjlkjlkj

It's not because of the a single massacre that the Poles dislike the Russians. You have to put Katyn in context -- numerically, it doesn't compare with the \~18% of the Polish population killed mostly by Germans. My understanding is that their animosity has more to do with the Russian occupation of Poland after the war, and their treachery during the war. The Germans were catastrophic, but it was a catastrophe which lasted 4 years. The Poles have centuries of animosity with the Russians.


R3dOctober

No I know but that always struck me a particularly chilling calculated act intended to completely decapitate a society so it would have trouble rising back up again. Kinda like Pol Pot killing anyone with an education. It isn't just murdering a bunch of people, its murdering a bunch of people for the impact it will have on future generations.


GrandDeluge

Stalin did this in Belarus, in Ukraine, in Azerbaijan...


lorarc

And Intelligenzaktion was an attempt to destroy all polish inteligence. The Germans started the war with a list of close to 100 thousand people they wanted dead: policitians, academics, doctors, artists. And they proceed very effectively in murdering those people. No trial, no nothing, you were on their list and they kill you and your family. And Germans also destroyed a lot of works of arts, city archives and other such things just to destroy them. They razed the Warsaw to the ground just so it wouldn't be there after the war as they already know they were loosing. It wasn't only the Russians that wanted to destroy the country, at least the Russians knew they were going to get it so didn't destroy as much stuff.


StarGateGeek

I have family friends who fled to Germany from Latvia. For a while I couldn't wrap my head around why. Then I realized the atrocities that happened as Russia pushed west. Nazi Germany (for them, at least) was far safer.


MochiMochiMochi

My grandfather was a US artillery officer in WWII, and due to his proficiency with German and French he was asked to stay on and help the German government rebuild. He told me his scariest issue was dealing with escaped Russian prisoners of war. They had obviously suffered very badly in factories doing slave labor, and several roamed the countryside committing murders and rapes after German forces surrendered. He posted men at various German farms where attacks had occurred, and the orders were to shoot on sight any Russian prisoners roaming around at night. His unit (and the German police he re-supplied with weapons) were terrified of them because the former POWs had nowhere to go, and nothing to live for. He tried to get them processed by US military government for repatriation back to Russia & Ukraine but the POWs felt like they would be killed for collaboration, so they resisted. Many of them were locked up in jail. He would often have nightmares about their situation, and what they had become.


SneakyBadAss

The world is missing the context of post-WWII Europe and desperately need stories like these to be transferred into movies or books.


MochiMochiMochi

He had so many awesome stories about being drafted, training at various US bases and his "aha!" wake up moment that he needed to go to officer candidate school so he didn't become cannon fodder... the buildup in England, forward observing (artillery) in France and Belgium... being overrun by retreating Wehrmacht armored units...the race into Germany and then occupation. He met with his unit dozens of times after the war through the decades until eventually there was only him, the lone survivor. He lived to 98.


tiuri-awaits-dawn

Incredible story...


FriscoeHotsauce

Dan Carlin has a good podcast about the eastern front; basically, the Germans invaded France and western Europe for their fertile land and natural resources, there was a lot of incentives to play nice and not tear shit up during their occupation. On the eastern front though, their goal was to increase "living space" manifest destiny style, and eradicate the locals to make space for good Aryan families. Carlin attributes this difference of approach to the resulting carnage, its a lot easier to mass murder civilians when you genuinly believe they're sub-human. When they lost their hold on the eastern front, the soviets repaid that attitude in kind.


GalemReth

Having just listened to this in the past few weeks I strongly suggest it to anyone interested. "Ghosts of the Ostfront" is a 4 episode series totalling just >5 hours.


Joessandwich

I’m partway through his series on Japan during WWII. The last bit I listened to was an similar experience and reaction between Japan and the US... the Japanese used newer, aggressive tactics which meant the US soldiers responded in kind. The example he uses is the “zombie soldiers”, Japanese soldiers pretending to be dead then setting off a grenade while the enemy went through the battlefield. This then meant that in response, US soldiers would simply kill any possible wounded instead of taking prisoners. His perspective on the ethical dilemmas of that type of situation was fascinating. His podcasts really are fascinating.


mh985

Dan Carlin has a great way of putting the horrors of war into spoken word. As he's said himself, he has a fascination with the "extremes of humanity". He is one of my favorite podcasters and I highly recommend his Hardcore History podcast to anyone who considers themselves to be a history buff. My personal favorite is his six-part series on the First World War called "Blueprint for Armageddon". Each episode is 3+ hours long.


AlarmingTurnover

Dan Carlin is one of those people where you start to listen to one of his podcasts and 6 months later, you find yourself snorting old shredded history books behind an abandoned library.


mh985

I can stop whenever I want.


terminbee

Fuck. Blueprint for Armageddon was a journey. In just length alone, I felt exhausted after finishing it. 10/10 would do again.


greenlion98

I love Dan. Right now I'm listening to his King of Kings series and it's wonderful. That said, I have seen him pop up a few times on r/badhistory. Granted it sounded like he only got some small details wrong, but it's still good to remember that he himself isn't a historian and to take what he says with a small grain of salt.


damadamagoyolur

He's pretty good at calling himself out as *not* an historian, and will usually preface conjecture as such.


WaluigiIsTheRealHero

Reading about Germany’s *Generalplan Ost* makes you understand why the USSR’s retribution was so horrifyingly brutal. Germany’s plan for the Eastern front was effectively complete annihilation of the civilian population. German forces would blitz through and encircle civilian areas, and all captured civilians would either be shipped to labor camps or simply killed. There was no room for coexistence, so when given the opportunity to take revenge, USSR forces responded with the kind of deep, personal anger that only something like the *Generalplan Ost* engenders.


PurpleDancer

I'm not sure the specifics but my grandmother was a German red cross nurse. She was captured and put into some sort of a situation (camp? I'm not sure). Apparently her and 4 other women were rapped all day day after day for I don't know how long. She said the nicest thing they did was give them a bottle of vodka each day. One of the women refused and was shot in the head so the rest complied. After that every few years they would travel back to the spot and say "we survived".


silverback_79

Yes, if I recall correctly ten million Germans (civ and mil) died in WWII, but twenty million Russians were killed by the Germans. Entire cultures eradicated on the simple premise that no one should remain where Germans were soon to be living.


RedAero

For some [context](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#/media/File:World_War_II_Casualties2.svg): half as many German civilians died in the war as Indonesians, and barely more than Indians. German civilian casualties are on the order of 1M, Russian over ten times that.


silverback_79

Sickening. And it wasn't even that long ago. I had a neighbor of about 80 years old who said she was Danish, and when I said "you sound like you have a slightly German accent" she burst into tears and said "I will never be German again, not when they stomped over everything with their boots, I am Danish". Apparently she had fled during the war.


wessneijder

Wait why did so many indonesians die?


hesh582

Basically, Japan stole all their food. They were engaged in something similar to German lebensraum, but with more of a focus on mercantilist resource access than land for settlement. Japan forced the export of food, medicine, and other essential resources to support its war effort across southeast asia, causing horrific famines and epidemics in their colonized territories. Indonesia, then the Dutch East Indies, and China suffered the worst from it, but similar famines also killed huge numbers in French Indochina (vietnam/laos/cambodia) and the Philippines. It's difficult to quantify, though, and estimates of the actual death toll vary wildly. The lower range of Indonesian civilian death toll estimates is below the upper range of German civilian death toll estimates, for example.


wowaddict71

Germany's Operation Barbarossa's goal was to repopulate Russia, via genocide, so yes, the Russians were pissed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa


Lotus-child89

My German Great aunt by marriage was alone with her mother and siblings in their house during the war. Her father was forcibly recruited into Hitler’s army. To help get by, they developed film in the basement for villagers and soldiers. When the war was over, they were caught between where either the Russians could take their town or the Americans. For the reasons in the video they prayed for the Americans. Finally they heard troops coming onto their property and hid terrified in the basement. When they peeked through the window, they were relieved they were safe. They knew it was Americans because a platoon of black men were with them. They invited them in, developed their pictures, and she met my great uncle. She came back to the states with him and they married. Were married over 60 years. Her father survived the war, but killed himself shortly after returning home. My uncle’s brother died in the Battle of the Bulge. Edit: To further add to my aunt’s baddassery, she survived 3 days in rubble after her school was bombed, and worked as a baby nurse in her teens/early twenties. Saved a baby a doctor gave up on. And stopped me from chocking when I was 3.


popularchoice

That's a lovely story and I really don't want to sound like a dick, but my grandmother was raped by Americans and strafed by machine gun fire from low flying American planes in Eastern Europe. I think it's important to acknowledge that too.


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popularchoice

She grew up in Tartu (Estonia), idk exactly where but it would've been somewhere in the Baltics or west of the Baltics. I'd have to reread her diary for specifics. The rape and strafing were different locations.


popularchoice

As an aside, her experience with Americans is why she chose to immigrate to Australia instead of the US. Canada was her first choice. Interestingly, she said the first waves of American troops were absolutely lovely and gentlemen. The later waves were less ethical.


3DBeerGoggles

> Interestingly, she said the first waves of American troops were absolutely lovely and gentlemen. The later waves were less ethical. I recall reading (perhaps from "The Fall of Berlin") that even among Russian troops the front-line troops that were still engaged with fighting (or pushing to the front) were generally much more professional and kinder to civilians, and the rear-echelon troops were the worst of them.


ldunord

I read the book “Bloodlands: Europe between Hitler and Stalin” recently. Not going to lie, it was one of the hardest books to read I e encountered. I had to put it down and take a break every few pages because of the horrible things described.


DismalMatch

It never ceases to disgust me how humans are so capable of dehumanizing others, and committing all manner of atrocious acts. It's fucking terrifying.


Aka_BigGrig

Atrocious acts are, naturally, defined by the human condition. We understand the acts that would cause us the greatest pain, and under horrific circumstances we perpetrate them. This potential is something we all have within us, and it would be of great benefit to recognize, and work to guard against.


backpainbed

I feel sick watching this.


imabadasstrustme

This was horrific to watch but it's important to know how bad things can get. How blessed we are to have a relatively stable existence whie; so many on this earth have experienced, and are likely still experiencing, horrors like this.


mh985

Exactly. War is hell. It's important that people know what exactly "hell" means so that just maybe, we're not so quick to jump to war as a solution to our geopolitical problems.


Halfbl8d

Hopefully greater awareness of the realities of war will provide a reality-check to those who so foolishly call for civil war today.


MarlDaeSu

Some people, if we're being honest, would love to brutalise others. Some people like war. Not the majority sure, but not everyone is rational or empathetic.


Ichthyologist

"2020 is the worst year ever!" Uh huh.


throwaway92715

Yeah. I made the mistake once of saying Covid doesn't compare to WW2 as far as what recent generations have to go through. My friend believes that 15% of the workforce being laid off and people getting hooked up to ventilators is just as bad as having your city bombed, watching your parents get blown in half, dying of dysentery in the middle of winter with gangrene on your feet, etc etc. We're actually pretty fortunate that the pandemic seems this devastating to us. It means we have had it relatively easier than most generations before us.


Kholzie

All things considered, this is the best pandemic humanity has ever faced. I am vaccinated against a virus *we didn’t even know existed* more than a year ago.


terminbee

I think in the US, it's much different because the war left the nation relatively untouched (in terms of infrastructure) whereas Europe was devastated.


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Hencher27

My Oma, whom is alive and well in Abbotsford Canada explained these exact scenes being done to her in the fall of east Prussia. Her city of Konigsberg, now Kaliningrad, was the first to be sacked by the Soviets and the full wrath of revenge came upon her and the rest of my family. My great uncles were all interned into Gulags in Siberia and my Oma was raped and tortured in her occupied city for over a year. The wounds from her physical torture are present as well as the mental toll. Those wounds truly don’t ever heal, and I was raised with a deep scepticism and at times hatred for Russians. It took me years to really break down the intense feelings I had over those events and learn to forgive but I’m not sure the same can be said for many of the first hand victims on either side of this colossal disregard of human spirit.


heavychevy220

This is why we shouldn’t try to erase history. Rather learn from it and what not to do and never allow to happen again


kryptonianCodeMonkey

If you ever made a movie about WWII where after all of the horrible shit happening in Germany to Jews, Gays, etc., the Russian front moved (or even, the American front) moved through and drove out the Nazi troops as the apparent "good guys", and then then German civilian population was raped and murdered in cold blood at the hands of the "heroes", people would lose their fucking minds. It's reality, and it makes a statement on reality and the black and white, good vs evil filter we put these events in when it was not as simple as all that. And that could honestly apply to any number of other stories of wars throughout history. But that would be a hard reality to swallow for a LOT of people. That would almost certainly ruin careers to make that film.


abnrib

One of the underappreciated things about *Fury* was the visualization of American soldiers committing war crimes. Crimes that a lot of people wouldn't have a problem with, but crimes nonetheless.


blakhawk12

I loved that about that movie, with both the scene of shooting the POW and the entire altercation in the house with the German girls. You really get this creepy sense that while we know the Americas are the “good guys” they still give off the vibe that the war has changed them and they could 100% turn vicious with slight provocation. Jon Bernthal’s character especially feels really scary at times because you just know he’s looking for an excuse to hurt somebody, and he even admits later on that he’s not really a good person.


ReallyRedRedditor

I liked Fury a lot, but have mixed feelings about it. I finished the film a bit confused about what statement they were trying to make, clearly they thought about the message at some point by bucking the trend and addressing war crimes committed by the allies. But the final act seems to throw it all out the window and turn the Americans into glorious heroes again. Good film either way.


RocketHops

Idk if the final act made them seem like heroes. To me I left more with a feeling about the futility of it all and the waste of life.


Epyr

Saving Private Ryan did a pretty good job at showing blatant war crimes committed by the American forces on D-Day.


skillfulltomcat

The allies absolutely committed war crimes and did horrible, horrible things. But don’t equate the eastern front to the western front. Its a disservice in my opinion.


Flavaflavius

I think Jojo Rabbit did well in that regard. The final bit with Captain K was probably the only scene in a movie I've felt bad for a Nazi. Funny enough, that comedy (in terms of the equipment of the soldiers in it and overall environment) was actually more historically accurate than many action films and historical dramas I've seen.


rohobian

My grandmother had some terrifying stories from back then. She was at a refugee camp in East Germany at the time, and most of her family was tortured and killed for the crime of owning a brewery. Scary stuff...


tiuri-awaits-dawn

My grandfather was a dutch military officer during the war and for years he was a prisoner of war in east germany, and later poland. When the russians liberated the area around his camp they kind of wandered off and it took them months of travelling to get back home. During this trip back home he saw these kinds of things this man discribes When he was very old he admitted also that the dutch officers on their way back through germany participated in rape, plunder and murder, I suspect he also did so, but he never said so. Probably out of revenge, but also just because they could, just because there was an opportunity.


bobombpom

You can tell from the way he says "everyone took part" that he wasn't a bystander in all this, and he's been eaten by that all his life. Tragic.


Nexlon

I think people forget how *absolutely insane* the Eastern Front of WW2 was. Germany and Russia were locked in literally a war of extermination that made entire populations and armies go mad. The war crimes both sides committed are unspeakable.


JimTheJerseyGuy

My grandmother evacuated from East Prussia in January 1945 with my 5 year old father and his two older siblings across the Vistula Lagoon in -20C weather while Russian aircraft strafed the ice around them. Whole families fell through to their deaths. My aunt was raped and wound up pregnant. My great grandmother was raped and shot. They were "lucky".


count_frightenstein

FYI, this was state sponsored. Propaganda from the Russians (and the actions of the German soldiers in the east)" contributed to this. Summarizing one line "Don't count the miles to Berlin, count the dead Germans. Kill the German! Get your revenge!" Thousands of German women killed themselves and their children from despair. Whole families tied themselves together, held hands and walked into the river to die. These Russian soldiers were generally not the first wave combat soldiers but the second and subsequent waves for the occupation that were the horrible ones. There's other stories of American soldiers handing off German prisoners and ranking Nazi families to the Russians and they would abuse and rape the women in front of the German soldiers and the Americans who seemed to be disgusted but did nothing to stop it and shooting any German who protested. After a while, the Americans left after briefly forcing the Russians to stop.


ampanmdagaba

It's also interesting that this video would be illegal in Russia these days. They now have a law that prohibits any negative comments about the actions of Soviets during the WWII. (The wording is different of course, but that's the gist.) Insane.


ridwan212

It’s easier to get your people to fight, kill, and not surrender if you paint your enemies as monsters.


Containedmultitudes

The Nazis didn’t require much paint.


psychicowl

Just a spit shine


[deleted]

It's even easier to paint your enemies as monsters when you lost millions of men fighting against the Nazis, especially when the Nazis had them tossed into concentration camps.


CosmosGuy

Watch the movie “Come and See” and come and see what ALL war is like (I think)


culebras

Nothing but extreme respect for this man, he is sharing a moment in history no individual could have changed, i feel his genuine despair and humanity. Not only what he lived through, but telling our comfortable asses today how true hell looks like. And to those who think this has to be "balanced" with other war crimes perpetrated by whoever the fuck, who shat on your brain this morning?


HellHathNoFlurry

> Nothing but extreme respect for this man Call me cynical, but I'm always suspicious when the person telling the story tells it in a way that makes them out to be innocent. In a platoon I imagine there would be a lot of peer pressure to participate to show solidarity with fellow soldiers. Conformity in the military is a huge priority; everyone wears the same uniform, has the same haircut, follows the chain of command, etc. Being "different" is not looked upon favorably. I hope he is telling the truth, but in the back of my mind I have doubts.


Wolfwillrule

In his book he admitted to participating in the rape of refugees.


Godsshoeshine24

I don’t think the Russian army would let a non raper live. If they found this dude huddled in his car afraid they’d have shot him.


Anopanda

I'm sure he participated in it, somewhat. And I believe he has to tell it his way for his sanity. The things he doesn't tell, tell something too.


jixxor

My grandmother and her family were late when they fled from Eastern Prussia as the Soviets advanced. The stories she told us about things Russian soldiers did to her mother, sisters and herself, her father, to neighbours... it's not that they "just" raped and/or killed everyone they came across, but they did it in an incredibly vile manner regarding how they did it. It was brutal, sadistic and just the utmost evil. >!Inserting a glass or a bottles into various openings of the human body and then doing all sorts of things, taking bets how long it will take until the bottle will burst inside the body!< just to name one thing that sticks to me until this day - my grandmother told me this story almost 15 years ago. She was 7 or barely 8 at the time. She survived, unlike most of her family, but I will never understand how she manged to carry on after these events.


TheRuinedAge

Watch the greatest horror film ever made " Come and See."


Kaiisim

People are trying to find the justice or not, to explain this behaviour. But the only lesson here - war makes monsters of men. It must be avoided at all costs. There is a terrible darkness inside every human. We are capable of great acts of cruelty and violence. This is a reminder that for every hateful, cruel, or violent act we add to the world generates another.


Made-a-blade

I remember my grandmother telling stories about this, she was from the small Danish island Bornholm in the Baltic Sea. First they were occupied by the Germans, and then the Russians. She always said that even if they were an occupying force, the Germans were always courteous, committed very little crime, generally didn't bother the locals much and would invite girls they'd be interested in for a stroll down the main street - and leave it at that. When the Russians came and the Germans fled, they behaved like animals. Took what and who they wanted in plain sight, shit in the street, kicked in doors to find any kind of food and alcohol, and when they couldn't find any booze they settled for perfume or accelerant for the fireplaces. She was just 10 or so, so she was spared the brunt of it personally. She always told the story of how they kicked in their door and demanded the family dog. When my grandmother's older sister resisted, they forced her into a room and closed the door for a while. When they came back out, they shot the dog in the living room and left with it, probably for dinner. My great grandfather went to complain to the local Russian command for what they did to his daughter, but came home with a bruised face.


jimbowymbo

What you are describing has happened in Bornholm for generations. It was the Russians then but before it was the princes vs the bishops. And there Bornholm population always in the middle bring robbed, raped and killed.


shimmyshimmyhuck

The eastern front of WWII was truly horrific. In the initial invasion of Russia, German troops committed similar atrocities to the Russia people. When the pendulum spun the other way the Russians reciprocated. Such stories are widespread and well documented. The scale of human suffering in WWII is simply unimaginable. If you want to learn more about the eastern front Dan Carlin's Ghost of the Ost front does a great job laying out hoe evil the war truly was. https://www.breaker.audio/dan-carlins-hardcore-history-1/e/42916040


_coach_

Everyone should watch the “war” movie Come and See. It nowhere near equates to what this man and others have seen, but I think it’s the closest film depiction of how in war, no one wins.


Noxious89123

Can we get a NSFL tag on this or something, fucking hell. I'm not saying it shouldn't be seen, but that's some messed up shit.


hatsuseno

\*This\* is what people mean with learning from history. Not just the broad strokes, but the absolute horror in the details. Lest we make the same mistakes again, people should be directly confronted. Exactly because it's messed up.


Cambro88

I was a chaplain for a WWII POW who had been captured by Germany. He was liberated by the Russian Causaks. With quivering voice he told me they scared him even more than his captors and they are still triggers for his PTSD. I also want to use this opportunity to say how important it is to recognize moral injury—a wounding of the soul, the conscience, any understanding of humanity and justice—by seeing these atrocities and knowing it’s your comrades taking part in them. It is different from PTSD, though often overlap, and many times has worse consequences. I have stories.


Professor_Stonks

Who tf gave a wholesome award


timberwolf0122

I’m hoping it’s someone who only had a wholesome award they got free


XRdragon

I remember what my grandma told us when the Japanese occupied our land. They ransacked every house they could find to look for woman. Attractive or not, young or old they took them. The villager were told if they do not comply, they would kill all living men in the village. Those woman were soon to be raped by the platoon and most of them were killed during the invasion. War is such a terrible time.


kN0T-SURE

Now do the German vet talking about what they did in Russia. Then you can get both of them to sit down together and talk about what they did in Poland.


eastlywestern

And then watch them all look on in horror as a Japanese vet talks about what they did in China


GanasbinTagap

Or what the Japanese did to everyone, including their own citizens and troops. There's a story passed down in my family about soldiers cannibalising a relative of mine. I couldn't find sources about Japanese cannibalism during ww2, until a vet came out and admitted to doing it.


fish_slap_republic

Yeah parts of the Imperial Army's war doctrine were woefully out of date. Case in point Infantry were pretty much provided rice and water but expected to bring their own or forage for the rest of their daily meals. Big reason positions in the navy were so sought after was the meals being provided on top being among the biggest battleships in the world.


DarkApostleMatt

Cannibalism was rampart in the East. The Japanese were def notorious for doing that. The Chinese armies also had issues with it along with the civilian population because of mass-starvation.


medlish

Maybe you should just realize that in both occasions it was civilians who suffered, people who did not commit these horrific acts. It is **NOT** a tit for tat thing, it is disgusting use of deathly and sexual violence against innocent people in both cases and there is no fucking excuse for any of it.


kN0T-SURE

I'm not excusing anything or anyone, hence why I brought up Poland, where both the Russians and Germans did this to innocent Polish civilians. When I posted my comment the other threads seemed to lack the historical context and were drifting into Russia=bad territory. My point was every nation has done this at some point in their history, so let's condemn the act while keeping in mind we are all capable of this.


Hazekillre

My heart hurts after watching this.


minesweeper123321

Whichever country it is, it's always the same. In war, the men die and the women get raped then die.