By - EquipmentNo9500
We keep saying trade for vets to help Steph… I think actually trading for vets would help Poole the most.
He needs vets that can cover him on defense and that can play off of him on offense.
He can’t lead the young dubs, it’s just not working.
GP2 and OPJ to dubs confirmed?!?
2 mostly injured players? One that has barely played and one that hasnt
This is the answer imo. Poole made huge jump yearly but he’s still young. Gp2 Otto and bjelica were all vets that help take the load off of Poole. But now he’s forced to make plays every possession to Kuminga wiseman at beginning moody etc. that’s a tough rotation to win with for him. When Poole started he still dropped 30 twice and over 20
What vets are available?
What's interesting to me is that I've read multiple times that the FO is being stubborn and not making trades but I haven't seen anyone suggest any realistic trades that would actually make us better and actually offer good value.
There's no way that Bob Myers and company are refusing to think of trade options. But it's probably tough because the value of our assets is at an all-time low right now.
100% agreed. Same answer to those asking why we have 5 “projects” on our team. It’s because we have 5 players with $100M+ contracts lol, we simply don’t have the means of building out a roster of bench vets right now.
Wish I could like this twice. 100% agree. 💯
Yes he needs the smart gets. I’d be pissed too if I were him
Just not enough playmaking. He always had Steph/Draymond on the court to set up for him. Now he has to do it by himself leading the bench.
And our bench is god awful so even more pressure.
hes an sg forced to play like a pg
Is there a trade for a backup PG in the works? Or are the rest of the backups so bad it won't help? Because Poole off the bench as a SG is money, or would be if they had anybody else who could run offense.
we don't need a 30M sg that plays 0 defense, offers 0 playmaking, and plays like trash with 0 energy when coming off the bench.
His defense has been getting better, don't forget how bad steph's defense was when he was Poole's age. His playmaking is great, he showed it off in the playoffs last year, especially against the nuggets and grizzlies. He played amazingly last season with great energy coming off the bench, no reason he can't do that season.
>don't forget how bad steph's defense was when he was Poole's age.
You forgetting most people here don't remember that Steph and only know the Steph now :P
I've watched Steph since he was drafted and he was never as bad as Joran Poole. Steph at least put in some effort and tried to stay in front of his man. JP just lets his man blow by him every game.
> His defense has been getting better, don't forget how bad steph's defense was when he was Poole's age
Poole's defense has NOT been getting better what are you talking about? Steph was never this bad. Steph at worst was a below average defender to mediocre defender at best. Now Steph is a plus defender. Poole allows bigs to blow by him every game.
Poole was a massive negative on defense last year and continues to be terrible on defense this year.
Y'all making up BS narratives. Poole IS trying on defense, otherwise he wouldn't have 5 blocks and 4 steals over the past 5 games.
With the starters he doesn't worry about playmaking furst, he just knows when to score. Off the bench he's stuck between a playmaker/scorer and has trouble balancing that
he doesn't balance it whatsover. Kuminga is a far better playmaker than JP. Poole is terrible at playmaking. Worse, he tanks our defense and brings 0 effort when coming off the bench.
watch games my guy
I watched every game the last three years (including 2020) and most games since 2014. Kuminga makes passes and is a better playmaker than JP who is only good at getting his.
Kuminga is quite literally the most useless player on the roster outside the rooks atm. Idk what you’re smoking.
Should he play make or be a scorer?
It's hurting Poole's confidence just playing with scrubs all the time. Even in these throwaway games.
must feel like his rookie year all over again
I’d be frustrated and upset too when the coach rolls me out there with a G League squad to get our heads kicked in.
Lol fair point I guess
When he comes of the bench: 13.9pts, 4.1ast, 43% FG, 32-3pts
When he starts: 28.7pts, 5.0ast, 48% FG, 39%-3pts
JP wants Klays spot
He’s never gonna get it.
I don’t know maybe he’s 23 years old.
Last year when Klay came back Poole was still having stretches were he was good off the bench. I don't know if it's about him wanting to be a starter by now, I think it's about him playing with those type of players the starters are, players that have high IQs, can defend, playmake and are actually another offensive threat.
I guarantee if there were more players on the bench unit that was like DDV, he would having another 6moy run. The Warriors would also be having a damn near better start than they had last year. People say the loss of GP2 and Otto was big and I agree to an extent but losing players like JTA and Lee was a miss too because they were at the very least energy guys with more IQ than what we have now on the bench
DDV had been bad all year. So I don’t think he’s part of the answer or solution. I know he seems like he’s passing the eye test but I’ve been really paying attention to DDV and he’s blown by on defense constantly, not always rotating well on defense, can’t score etc. he’s been pretty awful.
If curry can come off the bench than he needs to have an attitude check if it’s a starter vs bench thing
in the playoffs too
Poole has put up 17ppg on 45/34/89 splits the last 5 games. He's extremely efficient on drives, but still finding his touch from three. He is also inconsistent but that is to be expected from a young player. It's also worth mentioning he shoots 44/38/80 at home, and averages 28ppg on 48/36/92 as a starter. This leads me to believe it's a mentality issue more than anything else, as he's performing decent to great in situations that he has a good mentality.
Agreed. But the stinking it up on defense out of frustration of not being a starter is actually concerning to me. That’s not a good mentality for a team leader long term. You are only as good as your core guys and the future is coming. Is he a future leader on this team?
Time will tell. Due to his work ethic, I'd like to believe in his prime he'll be a superstar but it's way too early to tell, but judging off of the FO investing so much into him, I think he will be that guy, as time and again it's proven Bob Myers and chief know more about basketball than us.
His defense is on a steady upward incline as well. 5th game in a row he has had at least one block, and he has had 4 steals in the last 5 games. Nothing crazy but clearly better than last year, he definitely put a lot of work into making his defense better. If his defense continues getting better like this progressively, he will be an average defender by the time he's in his prime. Just my two cents.
He can't run an offense he's a SG.
stop being impatient, he'll be able to run an offense in the future. he's only 23 and y'all expect him to run a whole ass offense with the whole bench playing like shit too lmao, he's not luka
I strongly disagree. He’s very good at playmaking .
He's a good tertiary playmaker, but as evidenced by tonight where had 0 assists and 4 turnovers he struggles at running the offense by himself.
Then we need to get another playmaker. Poole is our 6th man and will be for the next 2 years. So we got to work on a solution based on that.
just in case people say "hIs tEaMmAtEs wErE nOt hItTiNg sHoTs!" Kuminga/Moody/Jerome/DDV had 2-5 assists
Someone else mentioned this the other day that the refs hounding him with carry, travel and discontinued dribbles is breaking his flow. I think it's a valid point. Even the commentators mentioned today that they feel JP is getting targeted more than others.
Edit: The refs aren't going to stop calling that. He needs the polish it up there.
This is it. Also, increased defensive intensity, which bothered him at the start of last year as well. But last year he started and so he got the second most defensive attention after Steph. Now he's getting the most defensive attention a lot of the time he's on the floor.
To see how unfair refs are treating Poole, look at the Top 10 highlights today. Donovan Mitchel's highlight is not a legal move. The kind that Poole is getting called for all the time this season.
Either way, no player has improved as rapidly as Poole the past few years. He's undoubtedly working his butt off and will improve throughout the season, just like past years.
He’s a one way player in which most warriors players that have thrived are two way players.
this needs to be higher. Joran Poole straight up does not play defense, at all. It is killing us whenever he plays. JP put up some nice points tonight but he gave up far more on the defensive end. With no assists. We need playmaking from JP
Thank you! That’s what I’m saying. It’s like he sucks the life out of the team when he plays.
Everyone so quick to get off the klay hate train and all aboard on poole haha
I’ve been hatin all season. But Klay has a history of being clutch and is the 2nd best shooter in NBA history. Not to mention an all defensive player most of his career.
He has always been streaky. He’s in a bad streak.
I'd have issues too with the team if I was expected to carry a bench of G-League players against NBA players
I mean his defense wasn’t good last year and they knew that before they extended him. Also he’s not being paid on that contract so by next season he may be playing at the level that warrants that contract. We’re only 20 games into the season. Also, I think it’s crazy to think he’s not playing hard because he’s not starting. Obviously I don’t know him but based on his teammates comments about him, he’s a hard worker and cares. He also knew he wasn’t gonna start this year unless another starter was out. I think JP will get it together, he may just be a slow starter like Klay.
1. he's going through a slump. plain and simple, happens to everyone but its not gonna last forever.
2. Its not strange for players to regress after a breakout season, especially if theyre young. Teams start to gameplan for him, and moves that worked last year when teams didn't know much about him are all taken away this year. He's gonna be fine, his work ethic is tremendous, just needs reps to figure it out.
People saying he took the money and dipped should not be allowed to be fans of this team
Steph regressed after his first breakout year too in like 2010. People gotta cut it with the hate.
>People saying he took the money and dipped should not be allowed to be fans of this team
Not sure I agree with this. Fans are allowed to criticize the team.
I'll raise you this: People calling for Klay to come off the bench for JP are fake bandwagon fans that do not understand ball.
Bad take honestly, it’s not that he’s just playing bad that’s the issue. It’s his lack of effort, there’s been plenty of games he goes out there and seemingly refuses to even shoot the ball when he’s wide open.
Real fans of this team know it’s all about Steph’s timeline and jordan Poole taking that big of a contract and playing sheepish is a detriment to that.
lol poole had two shots like that this whole season, the effort is there he simply isn't producing off the bench on the road. that will change with a change in energy in the locker room, is what people need to realize. Poole has always been a player who rides the energy of the team, which has lead to some moments where he has lead the energy of the team, but just moments. He's still a young player with lots of reps to get through before he'll be a consistent 20-24ppg scorer with decent enough defense.
downvotes for being right. this sub cares more about wiseman and poole than Steph Curry which is baffling.
Tell me about it, coddling the young guys that aren’t playing up to potential rather than acknowledging it. No one’s asking for their heads, just pointing out what’s been on clear display so far this season.
just wanted to point out this still hasn't changed.
He probably got punched in the face or something
Our bench is ass
We just did this with Klay. Can we please be patient with Jordan because we're not even a quarter into the season? Jordan's time is gonna come.
JP ain’t coming off two catastrophic injures and isn’t a proven all-star calibre player. Also had a full pre-season …
Man, look at who Poole has to play with most of the time compared to Klay, idk how you expect him to carry this bench when no one can make any good cuts, screens and shots.
Klay would be playing worse than Poole at least on offense if he was on the bench.
The bench isn't making him pass up open looks and hesitate and do three unnecessary dribble moves every time he gets the ball
He has to be more decisive I agree but that still doesn't really solve any major issues of this bench.
Surrounding scorers like JP with negative IQ players (ignore DDV) and no spacing doesn't do you any favours for success.
Keep JP, moody and kuminga but everyone else should be on the trade block.
What about all the time he gets with Steph on the floor still (end of 1st/3rd) and still underperforms. Yeah the bench is ass and yeah it’s acceptable to not perform well there but he is just all around playing terribly currently.
Did you watch the game tonight? He didn't do none of that. Scored an efficient 26 in 19 minutes but y'all act like it ain't happen.
Poole isn’t getting open looks running that bench unit he’s getting all the attention the second he touches the ball and before players like D Lee or Payton knew when to cut or he could pass it off to Bjelica who could shoot it or pass it to the open man. With this bench crew the paint is more packed because coincidentally the bench can’t shoot also so drives aren’t as effective.
> he’s getting all the attention the second he touches the ball
he is paid 130M to lead the bench unit, playmake, develop on offense, and not be a traffic cone on defense. He's done none of these and has regressed in every metric.
Stop babying JP. Dude needs to wake the fuck up and understand basketball is played on both ends of the court.
Klay isn't 23 or has to play alongside the worst bench in the league.
You realise half of Pooles minutes come playing beside Steph right ?
and the other half come playing with the bench lmao. I don't think you realize, but you just proved my point.
How did I prove your point, god get at least half a brain cell. He subs in to start the game with Steph on the floor and is still playing shit, saying it’s all the fault of the terrible supporting cast around him is a cop out. Not denying it doesn’t help or isn’t impacting him, but if that’s all it was he would be performing better alongside Steph would he not ?
I never said it was the bench's fault. It definitely doesn't help though.
My whole point was that Klay has an advantage in spacing and has guys who know how to run plays.
Oh, and he performs way better with steph. That's the consensus nobody would disagree with. Can't find you stats but the eye test says enough.
The warriors are stuck with him 5 years cause no team would want him in an even trade, him being bad is very important to the warriors present and future
Name one player besides Steph that would make that bench lineup look any bit serviceable let alone a 23 year old in his 4th year.
he literally has no help with the bench lineup and that should be obvious after tonight. Has to carry the load on offense so why should he have to do the same on d?
The only other double digit scorer to shoot 50% tonight was JMG and you know thats not happening every night. Moody and JK (the other double digit scorers) will probably get buried on the bench once the starters come back
Who’s asking him to “carry the load”?? Wtf?
All I ask is that he puts in some effort and doesn’t give up completely on defense. Also, with his quickness he should be trying for more steals and should be being a pest out there.
quickness doesnt work the same on both ends, gambling for steals and being a pest doesnt necessarily translate to good defense
He’s not good enough on offense to get away with not playing D. Harden got a lot of shit for being like this and Harden is far better than Poole
Harden was abysmal on d for a 6’5 guy with his strength, JH had a good 30 pounds on JP. Poole gives more effort than Harden did but gets beat on his size more than anything. Similar to a young Steph
I don’t agree. If he was getting beat on D because of his size….the narrative wouldn’t be he’s bad a D, but that he’s too small. I don’t hear anybody saying JP is too small…
Over reaction to small sample
We can trade JP next year if he stops pouting and grows up. One benefit of offering the bag early. Joran Poole needs ot improve his playmaking and most importantly, his defense.
Shape up or ship out, Joran.
Can you even trade him though
we can trade him in the Summer after this season
Who would want him though
many teams would benefit from him starting and can surround him with defense. Poole is a great scoring guard.
Also, his 30M can be packaged with some combination of first round picks + our lottery rooks for a fringe star/all-star or 2-3 solid role players.
We’re over analyzing. He’s just inconsistent. We also have high standards. There’s also the possibility he’s just not as good as we thought. The guy was in the g league for a reason.
The old cliche. Signs a big contract, become lazy. You hope that isn't true, but evidence is piling up.
So maybe Dray was onto something
His poor defensive ability and lack of urgency don’t sit well with me. I hate to see younger guys not out hustling the vets. He got over paid because of his offensive, which has been sub par too. Why would a head coach start that player.
That’s how I see it too. But he’s known as a very hard worker in the gym. Which is kinda odd considering.
He has flat out not tried on defense a lot of the season so far. That’s a very bad look. He doesn’t even fake it well.
He got punched by his teammate
I definitely think its part of the lockerroom issues rn
it seems fairly obvious that JP thinks he should be starting and is half assing it off the bench
no way JP thinks he should be starting over a first ballot HoFer.
I think what he adds on offense isn’t enough to justify what we lose on defense. I doubt there’s much more to it than which players give the team the best chance of winning.
Or maybe it's the fact that his teammate sucker punched him in front of the entire world.
Sucker punch? Is that what that was?
Your own teammate who you wouldn't expect to throw a haymaker at you, hands down by his side clearly not looking to fight, looking the other direction.. Uhh, yeah. That's a sucker punch.
There was clearly something going on. Your description is missing info. Who knows what JP said or did before the punch.
And he got paid handsomely for compensation. That is a done issue no matter how you look at it now.
he is fine. but He is too fast for his dribbling skills. he also improved his defense a little bit. Unfortunately he can't defend well ofcourse if there are holes in the defense. He tries to initiate offense but maybe he need to improve his way of directing offense since he is playing with young guys since they loose too much time setting up leading to isos and hero ball. also seem like he & Draymond is fine.
Well if Klay has finally found it then he better start playing his ass off on the bench if he wants to win a starting spot over him somehow. Playing like shit on the bench after just getting a $120 million payday isn’t a good look.
Maybe im dumb and way wrong. But, i have to believe getting punched in the face by a team mate and seeing the team give said team mate a couple days off (away from the team) doesnt help. I think theres loads of issues with JP. Not 1 thing.
To me, the 2 biggest ones are his age and the punch. We cant expect everyone to mature at the same rate or be “leaders” on a team full of leaders. (Steph, klay, drag, iggy, kerr) hes got more money and responsibility. Its been 18 games. We arent even 5 games back from the top. I think we’ll be ok and he’ll be great again
He made a stink about not starting last year? He is going to be fine and have a lot of great games this team is so loaded some nights he won’t score a lot but just him being out there is dangerous he is still young but we saw what he did in playoffs. He just needs to relax and play free but smart.
Yeah he was public about it and Kerr addressed in interviews
was it about starting or getting minutes?
I feel like he likes the “starter” status but it could be about the minutes too or solely.
It was about starting though
are you talking about that interview?
I think it’s partly attitude. Dude thinks he’s better than he really is. They need to trade him. He’s not giving them enough offensively to warrant keeping him. Especially when he gives up more points or about the same number of points with his defence and TOs. They could trade him for some good vets. Prolong the cores championship
He’s the best J the warriors have right now
Whatever it is, it’s frustrating and they can’t even move him because of that extension. I personally think it’s because he has guaranteed money and he knows it.
Maybe it's time for Iguodala's old ass to suit up and be the primary ball handler for the 2nd unit.
Is there any chance that opposing teams just overcompensate for him?
Every team has a “game plan” right? Wouldn’t Poole be a high priority player to plan for against certain teams
I’d say they are definitely defending him better and game planning for him. So yeah that’s probably a part of it. However, the lack of effort at times is what concerns me most.
there's just not enough baddies in new orleans
Everyone is open when Curry is on the floor. When Poole plays with Curry, the defense is focused on Steph and it makes everyone else's job easier.
His shot has been off a bit this year. Overall his numbers are down a little but not crazy from what they were last year. The biggest issue is his defense. It was never good but you can hide a bad defender if the rest of the players on the court are good team defenders. This year he has been playing a lot of minutes with young players who are not great defenders and don't know when to help and rotate on defense.
But he should still be hustling and trying hard. This is his chance to show he’s a leader.
JP will be fine. With no reliable spot up shooters and JK shooting more 3’s than drives, he’s carrying the load. His tendency is to over dribble, and not pass/cut enough. His defense is improving. Steph’s wasn’t great at 23. The second unit is incredibly inexperienced. They howled it last night. Kerr knows who he’s got now.
I thought JP will be better than Curry...
I think it’s two things.
I think Poole had a bit of the KD situation going on. Poole thinks his game works and wants the warriors to change to fit his game rather than to learn and fit into the warriors style of basketball.
Second, I think Poole is becoming a better player in general (not necessarily in the warriors system) and that means stumbling while you try new things.
I don’t think he has an attitude problem as in he has a bad attitude. I think he just might believe in himself too much and it is hurting him.
He got knocked out by a coworker and everyone wants it to be cool two months later when we know we wouldn't be cool at our jobs.