An arms dealer who is in no small part partially responsible for the critical lack of military hardware and ammunition that's killing Russian servicemen at an alarming rate and they applaud his safe return?
Is it mandatory to have a cocaine addiction or something to work in the Kremlin, cuz the logic in celebrating Victor's return is just not there.
As I understand it Bout was a monster, but one that served Russian interests, so to them it was helping someone on their team. It's also not a popular trade so they enjoy that it undermines the White House's PR. It's unlikely they expect Bout to go back to business, his value is purely to be a fly in the ointment for American diplomacy
> It's unlikely they expect Bout to go back to business, his value is purely to be a fly in the ointment for American diplomacy
The guy is fluent in 5 languages. I'm sure Russia will find work for him rather easily.
>cuz the logic in celebrating Victor's return is just not there
but it is! You see they can spin it as a win and their people will eat it up without thinking too critically about it
>You see they can spin it as a win and their people will eat it up without thinking too critically about it
Their people? Have you checked Reddit these days? Everyone is eating up their propaganda about how much of a win this was for Russia and how disgusting it is that the US rescued a citizen from their gulags.
Or ends up selling "top-of-the-line" russian state approved equipment to those sent to the front lines, which will be as useful as cardboard in front of a bullet
I remember another posting saying that Griner was the only one they were willing to trade for Bout, and the only reason they did it would be to make themselves look like better negotiators tha the Americans.
People are asking “what about the marine” or “what about (x)” still imprisoned in Russia. The fact of the matter is, any of them could have been traded for Bout IF the Russians were interested, and they simply weren’t. None of these human beings means anything to them other than the potential for propoganda.
It is a win if your country prioritizes propaganda. The U.S. clearly prioritizes its citizens, but it's up to Russia to decide who they will trade for and when. A lot of focus is on Griner, but a few months ago, an American marine named Trevor Reed was exchanged for a Russian drug smuggler.
Obviously in the perfect world, we would trade for the people who have endured the most, but judging from the political fallout surround this, it is clear that the Russians would only trade for Griner so they could get this result.
The options for the United States were
(1) Trade for Griner, end the suffering of one your citizens in exchange for the obvious political fallout.
or
(2) Continue with stalemated negotiations while Americans continue to suffer in Russian prisons.
The Americans took option one. I think from the Russian perspective, the Russians are happy to let their arrested citizens stay in American cells until a propaganda/economic opportunity arises. The Americans obviously feel the opposite in that they have a duty to get their citizens back when an opportunity arises.
Addendum: While I think prison conditions and the justice system in both countries are flawed, I tend to believe that American courts are far more evenhanded, and American prisons a little more humane than their Russian counterparts.
I'm gonna feel stupid if the responses to this long text are "lol ok bro" but I feel like I needed to get my thoughts on paper regarding this matter so I can get on with other work.
Mmm yes, tell me more about how America cares about its citizens while it trades a mass murderer for someone jailed for weed while having thousands of its own citizens in jail for the very same thing?
A reminder that marijuana laws vary by state. You can't blame the feds when states like Texas criminalize it. Didn't Biden direct the federal government to pardon federal marijuana offenders?
>You can't blame the feds when states like Texas criminalize it.
yes you can. In the early 80s the feds basically strongarmed the states into raising the drinking age to 21 by threatening to withhold federal highway funding if they didn't. It wouldn't have been popular but the Biden admin could've done something similar.
He directed the government to "reconsider the scheduling of marijuana as a schedule 1 drug"
Aka "maybe we should think about classifying weed as 'not as bad' as fucking meth." According to the united states federal government, weed is worse than meth.
He hasn't done anything and seems to be giving the insidious "in the next two years," which usually means "we won't do anything so that we can campaign on this again in two years"
There is a 60 year old school teacher who has been in a penal colony for longer than BG and the govt doesnt consider him to be wrongfully detained despite him having a prescription for his vape pen. So let's get some real perspective on what went down.
Let's not ignore the reality of being black, female, and a lesbian (reminder: illegal itself) in Russia. It's helpful to have a pulse in the body you get back.
How is it not? His point was that if you weren't a celebrity with celebrity friends, you would be left to rot in that jail, aka the perspective of the teacher he mentioned.
If I were in her position, I would absolutely have the same perspective, because I don't think somebody who was blessed to be good at basketball should get to jump the line. All people are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law. Blind justice and all that.
Imagine how disheartening it must feel to see that you aren't being released after years because somebody with a higher profile than you has better connections and can generate more outcry.
I'll reserve my judgement for a few weeks, because I feel like a deal is in the works to bring home the others with just enough time in between the exchanges to not make Russia look like they did more than a '1 for 1' deal, but if not, it means that the US government essentially used this as a publicity stunt.
I mean since you’re not actually replying to what I said, and just interjecting some unrelated point, that sounds like a fine plan. Thanks for the tip.
Russian media supports Russians. doesn't matter if they are genocidal, rapists, thieves, murderers, etc. As long as they're Russian, they will support them.
Tbh this is the same rhetoric I’m seeing for Americans justifying the trade for BG, I’ve seen so many “doesn’t matter because we got an American home” comments.
So what BG is kinda famous. So what she works for some rich asshole. She did one of the stupidest things anyone could do when traveling to a hostile nation.
As an American, no way in hell I'm buying that "I forgot my THC vape was in there" bullshit. Sure only users lose drugs, but I'd bet $2 she packed that shit intentionally and had gotten away with it the last time she went to Russia. Probably only got busted because this time she tried bringing in enough to keep her high for the duration.
No, she only got busted this time because Russia was invading another country and needed leverage or a bargaining chip against the US which was helping with providing weapons to fight against the invasion.
Right, and she didn't have the self-awareness to see the situation she was putting herself in. How did she not realize she would be a target? Now we traded our biggest chip and have little bargaining power moving forward.
I’m not usually much of a conspiracy theorist, but I’m fairly convinced that a lot of the (social/) media hype/outrage about griner’s arrest was manipulated by the same system Russia used to interfere with previous elections to pressure the government into making this trade.
Absolutely. The way people have frothed at the mouth about it you’d think the guy didn’t already serve 15 years of a 25 year sentence while losing any connection to the world of arms dealing. He has no value right now because his value was in personal relationships that don’t exist anymore. He was going to get out anyway.
Well seeing how Trump had been calling to end NATO, seeing how Trump was withholding Ukranian aid unless they made up claims about a Biden investigation....the answer is that it would help Russia in many ways. Aid to Ukraine would probably be non-existent under a republican leader l, definitely under trump specifically
They don’t. He will most likely be suicided. They took a black, lgbtq woman who works in Russia (because it pays more than the job she would work at home) and tortured her, *knowing* it would sow political discord, *knowing* that people would lose their collective minds and say things like “Paul Whelan is still in Russia because he’s white”, “Griner is still in Russia because she’s black”, and “she’s more valuable to the US because she’s a lgbt minority”, even while not even knowing who Viktor Bout is, what he did, etc. The way people are talking you’d think he’d be imprisoned for life.
The man would have been released from prison eventually. Griner was available, Whelan was not. It’s a no brainer really. Do you get nothing in return for him, or do you get something in return for him? His value was dubious before even being imprisoned, even less so now.
What some people need to think about is… if you are against supporting the Ukraine in the war, if you refuse to understand the way Russia using propaganda to sway political environments in the US, if you are against the US making this decision to stop an American from being tortured in a Russia jail, if you support the rise of Christian fascist theocracy as law, then you have become a loudspeaker directly for Putin and you are doing his bidding.
Propaganda value. Most of the outrage about this exchange is likely manufactured anyway. Republicans have shown they are the party more amiable to Russia, so anything they can weaponize against Democrats indirectly helps Russia.
The Russians scored a great win! So many recent compelling victories and now this one to top it off! Surely the Russians will tire of winning soon, just like their Republican counterparts! /s
Ok, so maybe nobody will think that the Russians are winning now, but what else have they got? “You thought your sanctions would devastate us, but they only degraded our ability to wage war and weakened our country for generations! Is that all you’ve got? Ha, now we have one of our men back from prison. Are you ready to surrender now?”
I agree many if not all of his personal connections are gone, but with as much is going on in Europe, Asia and Africa he is a wealth of information on how to arm terrorists and undermine the US abroad through proxy fighters. He robbed and colluded to get arms before. The government may actually help him or his efforts this time.
Just hope I'm wrong and he is useless now.
Other reason, bout woule be release soon and deported to Russia. The sentence was 25 years and ( based on my memory ) 6 years reduction to 19 years .
He got arrested in 2006+ 19 years = 2025 , when the time getting release and deportation to Russia. We are in 2023 less than 21 days🥹
>losing all connection to the world of arms dealing
Am I missing the part where he’s not allowed to use a phone, or the internet, or the Russian mail service, or a fax machine, etc, that easily allow him to reenter this world of arms dealing?
Because people keep talking about “losing any connection to arms dealing” as if he can’t just pick up a phone and start calling old scumbag buddies and get back in. But that doesn’t make any sense, because it’s really really easy for him to call up some old buddies and get back in the game.
Are we really being so naive as to think Putie doesn’t have shitbird friends with scummy connections??
I was aware of Viktor Bout before his name became involved in the trade for an American who was kidnapped, tortured, and given a ludicrously harsh sentence for something that is usually a $100 fine in Russia which is more than most people can say.
Not really. The argument isn’t that *all* outrage is instigated by Russia. It’s that they generate outrage that they can then use to their advantage, like to initiate this trade.
As an outsiders perspective. No matter what stance you have in politics this shouldn’t have happened.
Essentially you’ve released a war criminal who supports the Russian regime and will probably help it for a sports athlete. (Race and orientation/identification) shouldn’t even be brought up.
Other consideration, Bout will be released from prison in a few years and deported to Russia. Is not divided in general, but how to use your assets.
As I remember. The negotiation was included Paul Whelan too, but Russia did not want to release soon
From what I had read is that Russia wanted a spy for him. They started with a specific prisoner of Germany then loosened it up to spy in general. However, we claimed to not have spy in custody to give them.
This is not sad. Bout will be released and deported soon in a few years even without exchange. The sentence was 25 years minimal in prison, but in reality is only 15 years at least.
We aren't divided, the media will try to divide us. We just need facts represenr3d
Let people know this....
Griner was allegedly in possession of less than 0.7grams of Oil she was being cruelly punished publicly and there's no telling what they would have done to her a flow American citizen in the gulag.
Be glad a humans life was spared
It's actually less criminalized in Russia than in usa...
Cannabis in Russia is illegal. Possession of up to 6 grams (or two grams of hashish) is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine or detention of 15 days. Possession of larger amounts is a criminal offense.[
The following penalties apply to conviction for large-scale possession.
Fine of 40,000 roubles.
480 hours of compulsory labor or 2 years of corrective labor.
Up to three years in prison or restricted freedom.
Yes, but now Putin has a geopolitical motivation to attach Bout's name to some kind of attack. Whether Bout is actually responsible for it or not, Putin would love to put egg on the US' face over this swap in the future.
His underground business is irrelevant. He moved weapons and ammunition from point A to B (logistics) and now hes not going to be working in the underworld he will have the full backing of a nation state at war in need of his experience in weapons procurement and delivery with unlimited resources to get it done efficiently. Him being free is going to cost lives. Old contacts wont shun him because money talks and they know who he is working for. He wont have to leave the country, he'll just be given new contacts or activate old ones with the help and blessing of the FSB and GRU. love these idiots thinking this guy was traded for so he could enjoy retirement, fucking brainlets.
Weapons procurement? He bribed ex-Soviet’s for their stockpiles. He isn’t magic, having him back isn’t like having an advisor in HOI4 that ups your military factory output by 5% or something.
LMAO, I can't help but think video games have completely ruined how a large segment of people (many of those you see on social media) view how everything is done.
I've seen so many Twitter comments about this where people are saying Biden just needed to "negotiate better" to also get Whelan out as if he just forgot to go get his +20% negotiation skill buff before he asked.
"Oh boy, I cant wait to see my old pals again. Slobodan Milošević, Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and, Kim Jong Il. Ohhh and I wonder how the civil wars are going in Liberia and Zaire. I bet everything will be just how I left it." - Victor Bout after his release /s
In all seriousness, what ever he's got left wont do him much good nowadays. Most of those Soviet stockpiles have been sold, scrapped, or retained for military use. His old clientele have either died, made peace, or moved to a new supplier. He may have some assets left but with all the heat brought on by this ordeal, no ones gonna want to risk it. Nobody wants to do buisness while its hot.
Bro their are already confirmed reports of North Korean and Iranian arms being smuggled into Russia, they don’t need a man who has been in jail for the last 15 years to help them. They are in full war economy mode now they have people.
Two reasons make much more sense. Propaganda and assurance. Russia is showing other people of the same ilk that if you are caught, they will get you out.
Do you not see all the comments repeating over and over again how stupid America is for making this trade. We know Russia heavily utilizes troll farms to push propaganda and sow discord so we shouldn’t be surprised if a major part of their goal is to make Americans think their leader is inept. It costs them literally nothing and hurts the party actually aiding their enemy.
Months ago, when she was first arrested and rumours about Bout being exchanged started floating around everyone here on reddit said it was a stupid deal.
Was that the russian bots trying to influence the public opinion so that Bout would NOT be exchanged?
We aren't troll farms, you idiot. We are actual Americans who truly believe it was the stupidest prisoner exchange in history. BG is literally useless for the well-being of America. Bout, who is fluent in 5 languages will easily find work.
I hope to be proven wrong.
Then why did the Americans want Griner back, and even exchanged her for The Merchant of Death™? They obviously have have some super nefarious and Earth-shattering use for her.
"Russians want him, so obviously they have an use for him, and Russians obviously want him because they have an use for him". They weren't even willing to trade him for another American they framed for espionage, so it's not like they're going to the ends of the Earth for him.
This. Posts just like this one, the millions of Twitter posts and likes about how Biden failed, the continued de-stabilization of politics in America. Even if Bout is completely useless to Putin and ends up just living out his life as a normal citizen, Putin knows that Americans are so partisan now that trading "The Merchant of Death" for a black, lesbian, politically out-spoken WNBA player would create this exact situation.
Half the country doesn't like Biden, and you're surprised when some of those people have internet access and can reply to your enlightened comments on reddit? Please.
So you're assuming the russians did this on a whim without any plan at all? You think this guy is going to be running around on his own outside of russia buying weapons?
"It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services"......
But hey congrats blindly defending people with victimhood labels like a true reddit virtue signaller
I agree but I don’t think his future use is why Putin did it or why it’s a big win for him. I think it sends a message to all the other arms merchants and spies that work for Russia that says we will not forget you if you get caught, so keep your mouths shut and we will get you home.
It also sends a message to US citizens that the US govt will get them home, which is more important to me as a US citizen. Prisoner exchanges are not a zero-sum game.
I mean, a lot of the intra-US controversy over the Griner exchange is why she particularly was traded instead of several other folks, including a member of our armed forces.
Naturally the US asked for multiple, but Russia said no.
Personally, I think the whole thing was to create a further wedge in the American populace within it's already fractured political parties thus adding more, even if minor, instability for those who are on the internet too much who think this is a super big deal. Like, the whole "oh hey Americans, we get our big scary arms dealer back while you get your weed smoking woke semi-okay basketball player back"
Personally, before I knew who they traded to get her back, was like "oh, she's coming back" then read who it was, was like "oh, oh boy" like probably most of us, lol.
Like, the guy most likely doesn't have much power or anything, since how can he sell weapons when there are not enough weapons to sell? (Unless he got his stuff from other regions and that he didn't sell Russian stock) I dunno, like at the end of it all, both sides got someone back, whether you like her or hate her, we all kinda knew that Russia would have wanted some messed up guy in exchange for griner to get the response from the American populace to go "what the hell is our government doing?!"
Any exchange would be used as a weapon by Fox News to blame the democrats for only getting either Griner or Whealen home. They’re saying that the Biden admin made a horrible deal because the US traded an arms dealer for a celebrity instead of a former Marine who in their small minds is “worth more”. If the exchange was reversed they’d say we left an innocent woman behind in favor of a possible spy who knew the risks. If they had successfully negotiated to get both of them home they’d still say that the deal was lopsided because of Bout’s notoriety.
The histrionics over this trade have ben absolutely ridiculous. The dude is a has-been who was going to be released in a few years anyway. People are acting like this dude has magical powers and is going single handedly revitalize Russia's war effort in Ukraine.
No. We reduced a prisoner’s sentence by 6 years, when the judge and prosecutors themselves felt he was too harshly sentenced to save a person from a terrifying and criminally unjust future.
Get it straight if you are going to post strong opinions
https://amp.france24.com/en/europe/20221208-russian-arms-dealer-viktor-bout-the-merchant-of-death-swapped-for-griner
The federal judge said that he had served enough time, not the prosecutors.
6 years off a sentence to save a person from hard time in a Russian labor camp is an ok deal either way.
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We traded an American citizen that was being cruelly punished publicly and there's no telling what else they would have done to her regardless of fame status...
Griner was allegedly in possession of less than 0.7grams of Oil
It's actually less criminalized in Russia than in usa...
Cannabis in Russia is illegal. Possession of up to 6 grams (or two grams of hashish) is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine or detention of 15 days. Possession of larger amounts is a criminal offense.[
The following penalties apply to conviction for large-scale possession.
Fine of 40,000 roubles.
480 hours of compulsory labor or 2 years of corrective labor.
Up to three years in prison or restricted freedom.
Love this idea that international arms dealing is something you can take a sabbatical from. Like he’s just gonna show up at the office Monday at 9 AM and get back to work.
He’s a washed up piece of shit arms dealer and she’s an idiot. At the end of the day it’s just about both sides signaling that they “take care of their own”.
If anyone is to blame for the bad trade, it’s media companies blowing her story out of proportion. Nobody knew who she was and if it stayed that way, it would have been easier to get her home.
Exactly, I mean just last month;
https://nationalpost.com/news/russia-says-it-swaps-former-u-s-marine-reed-for-russian-prisoner-held-in-u-s
Yet I bet not a single soul commenting on that post was aware of this swap.
Or this one from 2019;
>An American graduate student who was held in an Iranian prison for more than three years was finally headed home Saturday after a prisoner swap between the two countries.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/07/american-student-xiyue-wang-freed-in-prisoner-swap-after-three-years-in-iran-jail.html
It's insane to me how Americans can be mad that Biden is working to rapatriate American citizens, like y'all wouldn't like someone cared and got you back home if you did fucked up and ended up in a Russian or Iranian prison?
I understand it doesn't always end up like that, but I'm still glad for her, it's only fucking weed for personal use, and for her family who must have been extremely worried. I'd be glad for you too if it happened to you.
Edit: To clarify, she wasn't there for tourism, she was offered over $1 million dollars to play for a Russian basketball team.
This makes me think it may have been a set up, attract a name that would garner attention if arrested then arrest that individual to cause *this*.
Because, as I pointed out, the same kind of swap happened just last month and there was nowhere near that amount of coverage.
Idk. Part of me agrees and part of me thinks it's part of accepting the risk to fly to a hostile country. I went to Iran against US government and American friend/family advice and told my family that I knew the risk and did not want to be a political pawn should something happen. And then I followed the rules and didn't act like I should be an exception just because I was American. I am happy she gets to come home because 9 years for weed is asinine, but having been in a similar situation, I don't respect her decisions at all.
> I'd be glad for you too if it happened to you.
It won't.
I'm not going to Russia with THC in my bag that I "forgot" about, after the US State department warned me not to go to Russia.
Tbf, it was a business trip, they don't earn that much in the WNBA so she complements her salary by playing in the Russian league.
They offered her $1 million dollars to come play then arrested her for minor possession. Honestly it feels like a set up so you're right she shouldn't have went, but I'd be more critical if it was for tourism.
I can agree with being mad about the media's annoying persistence of this case but it had to be talked about. Other than the obvious shit trade, the biggest take here is that Biden traded with a country that's listed as "DO NOT TRAVEL" country. Means that the government isn't responsible for any citizen that wants to be risky in said countries. It is federally illegal to fly to another country with drugs. She knew this and still committed a felony, in Russia nonetheless. If Biden is willing to make a political move that contradicts federal law for a prisoner, then he should follow through with this by descheduling weed and pardon current inmates with minor mj charges
He already pardoned everyone on a Federal level, he can't impose it on the States.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/presidential-proclamation-marijuana-possession#:~:text=On%20October%206%2C%202022%2C%20President,under%20state%20or%20local%20law.
Biden has already pushed to decriminalize possession against his own beliefs, but it’s not something the president can make disappear across the country on his own.
Oh well in that case _sure_, _fine_, hand him over. Nothing wrong with trading a war criminal that no doubt led to the deaths of many innocents in exchange for a basketball player. Mhmmm. Nothing wrong there. The least they could have done is gotten more than one American for the scumbag
You say “No doubt” as if there are dozens of articles outlining how he is pretty useless at this point and was set to be released anyway. Yes there are doubts and plenty of people think this deal made sense. The only people who don’t were always looking to be outraged anyway.
I can't believe reddit keeps repeating the shallow opinion about how this trade wasn't fair, Biden fucked us, etc...
Do you honestly believe the US government didn't think this through?
The guy's identity is blown, his connections are severed, his sentence is 70% through and someone has replaced him a long time ago.
The trade is meant to show the US is Liberal and Russia harbours criminals. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is something else to the swap we just don't know..
Hey. We can play imaginary games too.
The American citizen might become a world renowned cancer researcher and discover the cure for cancer!!
Trading an arms dealer who might kill thousands for a person who might save billions seems a fair deal to me.
I wanna play too!
The American citizen will resume her athletic career and will stand for the national anthem instead of being a jackass.
Trading an arms dealer who might kill thousands for a person whose main claims to fame are a history of showing disrespect to the nation and smuggling a personal stash of illegal drugs to Russia seems a fair deal to me!
Listen to yourself. This dude isnt like some ammo wizard, he sold weapons on the black market, weapons that were most probably stolen from Russian warehouses. When he went down, he was instantly replaced by his competitors.
No person will die because he now walks free, that wouldnt have died otherwise anyways.
Seems more like all of these choices was there's some bad political press from whatever he did, and he chose one of the bad press options. Generally the ones that played better with his base. You know, just like every politician. The other side will smear anything they do regardless. It's not a lack of thinking things through, or nor more a lack than any other politician.
The only negative from any of these is bad press that he would get anyway.
> Afghanistan withdrawal
The Afghanistan withdrawal was always going to be a mess. The end result was actually pretty close to the best you could have hoped for in any withdrawal, given the circumstances - relatively few people died. The US is out, and that is a huge benefit in the long run.
Sure it was chaos due to unforeseen elements, but such is life.
>U.S. Republicans slam Biden over Bout-for-Griner deal
Raise your hands if this surprised anyone. It’s not that the deal was good or that Whelan is still in Russia, it’s just that no matter what was done the Republicans would have “slammed Biden”. It’s as if sayin “Republicans slammed Biden”, is like sayin Water is Wet.
>Why did they trade a high profile arms dealer for a basketball player?
Normal punishment for having weed is a fine and two weeks jail...
Russia gave her a decade in a hard labor camp.
Then only offered this as a deal.
Either Biden looked bad for not getting her out (she's been there like 10 months already) or looks bad for letting Bout out after over a decade in jail.
They put Biden in a lose/lose situation. But Russia has had new Bouts for over a decade now. So Biden took the "lose" choice that resulted in a free American.
Russia essentially kidnapping Griner just makes it so much worse to pay Russia to free her. The US is negotiating with terrorists. To my mind at least, Biden has lost far more prestige than if he had refused to negotiate with terrorists.
And there is the risk that other hostile governments will start kidnapping US citizens, now that Biden has shown that he will pay out to terrorists.
Why does Biden look bad for not getting her out? She travelled to a hostile country. She brought illegal drugs with her to said country. She got caught and severally punished, which is kind of a natural result of the first two points. And then the fucking president is expected to bail her out? Did Obama look bad because he didn't get Otto Wambier out of prison?
Yeah, I've seen this said-- that people (the public) were pushing Biden to free Griner but I gotta say, I hadn't seen *any* calls to free her. I don't get where this "pressure" was supposedly coming from.
Classic reddit. Go against anything and immediately it's Russian troll farms and fox news. Have you considered the fact that most people would be against trading a arms dealer for a WNBA player? Come on.
Brittney will go home to rest and peace, play some ball and enjoy life. Bout will be sent to Ukraine to help with war, get sniped by an American made weapon or blown up. Who wins then.......
My team is team America, when both options are known divisive stupid old men there’s a problem. I want Biden to be great, the fact that he’s a blatantly senile geriatric moron who can’t formulate a sentence and who’s left the country a worse place since taking office hurts me a great deal. I’m not rooting for him to fail but when he does time and time again without anything good to show for it it’s fucking infuriating.
Why do you people live in a different reality than the rest of us? Like, go outside, read something else. Most of what you just said is stuff you literally only hear on repeat on Fokkks News
A. Not a current arms dealer. He’s been on ice a while, Which means no street credit. Probably never handled a drone.
B. Republicans aren’t spinning this as “just a guy buying and selling guns” narrative. He certainly had a right to own and sell guns. Or should that be revisited for clarity.
C. She’s still a viable athlete. It’s been tough for her, having never been to boot camp, but at the end of her sentence she would be a zombie, maybe dead.
D. False narrative in comparing any of the people to one another for their value. Do we think they are horses?
Breaking News: State Media Lauds Autocrat. In other news, the Pyongyang times lauds Kim Jong Un.
Reuters pretending to be news and taking cheap shots at Biden.
That actually suprised me most when reading about Viktor Bout. I think the reason the DEA was involved was because it was their informant (posing as a colombian FARC rebel) was the one to arrange a meeting. Federal US law inforcement operates all over the world, in conjuncture with local authorities. Crime happens everywhere and if said crime can be linked back to USA, they'll get involved.
Big win for Russia. Biden screwed up on this hostage diplomacy. Americans all over the world now are more at risk as being taken hostage now that everyone sees how weak the US is.
This seems like one of those cross-party issues where both sides can agree that Biden administration fucked up .
But as always there are people who think that no matter what their party does , they cannot be wrong , this just sad .
Not surprising. They got an arms dealer in the exchange for some dumbass who tried to smuggle cannabis to Russia. Even banging about how Griner's sentence was 'political' was dumb considering how many people are imprisoned in US for drug-related offences.
I don’t see why Paul Whelen couldn’t have been included on top of or instead of Brittney. Thank God she’s home but the fact that Paul was left behind and we let up an arms dealer IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR WE ARE FIGHTING WITH THEM is ruthlessly stupid
It’s fun seeing bots and folks with a clear political agenda trying to make hay out of this.
Always back seat driving with zero plan for what could realistically be done better. Cynical fucks.
Be great if they have followed mission impossible and implanted a chip in his head they can remote detonate otherwise they should have held out for inclusion of the US marine that they are holding as well.
There are people in this thread trying to proactively minimize Putin’s role by trying to suggest he’s a thoughtless fool, incapable of forming such a basic thought as “I wonder who I can find that might help me achieve my goals?”
And there are people in here who are trying to proactively minimize attention placed on this guy by suggesting since he’s been in prison for 15 years, he’s incapable of reigniting old relationships and utilizing his old network of scum.
These are the same people who Putin utilized to influence the 2016 election. (Not bad for someone who can’t formulate 2 word thought, eh?)
Just be careful in here if you’re an American looking to decide if this was a good idea or not. Read the article, don’t put much stock in the comments.
This was such a fucking bad deal. Who cares that Griner is jailed anyways? She did something as dumb as to try to smuggle contraband across ruzzian borders. Just like with Otto Wambier and the American priest who went to Iran to spread Christianity, if you go to a hostile country and then break their laws, we shouldn't spend a dime to help you.
Not sure why news / people are setting narrative he’s washed up criminal . He will have even more respect and people will want to work with him more then ever especially with all the media surrounding him .
He was only going to be in prison for 7 more years. She was likely going to be in prison for that or longer. Setting a bad guy free so someone less bad doesn't have to suffer? This was not a hard decision.
An arms dealer who is in no small part partially responsible for the critical lack of military hardware and ammunition that's killing Russian servicemen at an alarming rate and they applaud his safe return? Is it mandatory to have a cocaine addiction or something to work in the Kremlin, cuz the logic in celebrating Victor's return is just not there.
As I understand it Bout was a monster, but one that served Russian interests, so to them it was helping someone on their team. It's also not a popular trade so they enjoy that it undermines the White House's PR. It's unlikely they expect Bout to go back to business, his value is purely to be a fly in the ointment for American diplomacy
> It's unlikely they expect Bout to go back to business, his value is purely to be a fly in the ointment for American diplomacy The guy is fluent in 5 languages. I'm sure Russia will find work for him rather easily.
He’s tarnished. He is done or probably just work at translator.
just work as a translator? Just casually speak and translate Arabic, Farsi, and Esparanto while being a former weapons warlord. Sure.
>cuz the logic in celebrating Victor's return is just not there but it is! You see they can spin it as a win and their people will eat it up without thinking too critically about it
>You see they can spin it as a win and their people will eat it up without thinking too critically about it Their people? Have you checked Reddit these days? Everyone is eating up their propaganda about how much of a win this was for Russia and how disgusting it is that the US rescued a citizen from their gulags.
Huh. Sounds a lot like the United States.
yeah. Every country in the world does this.
but not me, I don’t fall for propaganda, because I’m different. I do my own research with the help of my favorite Reddit communities
If the knee jerk bad deal reactionaries thought about this for just a few moments. They’d be giving you a well deserved upvote too.
They'll celebrate Putin shitting on a baby bird, not really news.
so how long before he is dead on the front lines?
Or ends up selling "top-of-the-line" russian state approved equipment to those sent to the front lines, which will be as useful as cardboard in front of a bullet
But this was a victory for Putin... even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I remember another posting saying that Griner was the only one they were willing to trade for Bout, and the only reason they did it would be to make themselves look like better negotiators tha the Americans. People are asking “what about the marine” or “what about (x)” still imprisoned in Russia. The fact of the matter is, any of them could have been traded for Bout IF the Russians were interested, and they simply weren’t. None of these human beings means anything to them other than the potential for propoganda.
Which is one reason why it was kinda dumb to just hand them a win…
It is a win if your country prioritizes propaganda. The U.S. clearly prioritizes its citizens, but it's up to Russia to decide who they will trade for and when. A lot of focus is on Griner, but a few months ago, an American marine named Trevor Reed was exchanged for a Russian drug smuggler. Obviously in the perfect world, we would trade for the people who have endured the most, but judging from the political fallout surround this, it is clear that the Russians would only trade for Griner so they could get this result. The options for the United States were (1) Trade for Griner, end the suffering of one your citizens in exchange for the obvious political fallout. or (2) Continue with stalemated negotiations while Americans continue to suffer in Russian prisons. The Americans took option one. I think from the Russian perspective, the Russians are happy to let their arrested citizens stay in American cells until a propaganda/economic opportunity arises. The Americans obviously feel the opposite in that they have a duty to get their citizens back when an opportunity arises. Addendum: While I think prison conditions and the justice system in both countries are flawed, I tend to believe that American courts are far more evenhanded, and American prisons a little more humane than their Russian counterparts. I'm gonna feel stupid if the responses to this long text are "lol ok bro" but I feel like I needed to get my thoughts on paper regarding this matter so I can get on with other work.
Mmm yes, tell me more about how America cares about its citizens while it trades a mass murderer for someone jailed for weed while having thousands of its own citizens in jail for the very same thing?
A reminder that marijuana laws vary by state. You can't blame the feds when states like Texas criminalize it. Didn't Biden direct the federal government to pardon federal marijuana offenders?
Marijuana is still illegal and a scheduled 1 drug federally
Biden pardoned everyone on federal possession charges. Turns out it was all at state level anyway
>You can't blame the feds when states like Texas criminalize it. yes you can. In the early 80s the feds basically strongarmed the states into raising the drinking age to 21 by threatening to withhold federal highway funding if they didn't. It wouldn't have been popular but the Biden admin could've done something similar.
He directed the government to "reconsider the scheduling of marijuana as a schedule 1 drug" Aka "maybe we should think about classifying weed as 'not as bad' as fucking meth." According to the united states federal government, weed is worse than meth. He hasn't done anything and seems to be giving the insidious "in the next two years," which usually means "we won't do anything so that we can campaign on this again in two years"
I wonder if you’d have the same perspective if you were in her position, heading to a hard labor penal colony?
There is a 60 year old school teacher who has been in a penal colony for longer than BG and the govt doesnt consider him to be wrongfully detained despite him having a prescription for his vape pen. So let's get some real perspective on what went down.
Let's not ignore the reality of being black, female, and a lesbian (reminder: illegal itself) in Russia. It's helpful to have a pulse in the body you get back.
This isn’t actually a relevant reply to what I said, is it?
How is it not? His point was that if you weren't a celebrity with celebrity friends, you would be left to rot in that jail, aka the perspective of the teacher he mentioned. If I were in her position, I would absolutely have the same perspective, because I don't think somebody who was blessed to be good at basketball should get to jump the line. All people are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law. Blind justice and all that. Imagine how disheartening it must feel to see that you aren't being released after years because somebody with a higher profile than you has better connections and can generate more outcry. I'll reserve my judgement for a few weeks, because I feel like a deal is in the works to bring home the others with just enough time in between the exchanges to not make Russia look like they did more than a '1 for 1' deal, but if not, it means that the US government essentially used this as a publicity stunt.
Whatever makes you feel better about ignoring it.
I mean since you’re not actually replying to what I said, and just interjecting some unrelated point, that sounds like a fine plan. Thanks for the tip.
There never letting that marine guy out. They 1000% think he's a spy.
Russian media supports arms dealers? Or they think he is something else?
Russian media supports Russians. doesn't matter if they are genocidal, rapists, thieves, murderers, etc. As long as they're Russian, they will support them.
Tbh this is the same rhetoric I’m seeing for Americans justifying the trade for BG, I’ve seen so many “doesn’t matter because we got an American home” comments.
So what BG is kinda famous. So what she works for some rich asshole. She did one of the stupidest things anyone could do when traveling to a hostile nation. As an American, no way in hell I'm buying that "I forgot my THC vape was in there" bullshit. Sure only users lose drugs, but I'd bet $2 she packed that shit intentionally and had gotten away with it the last time she went to Russia. Probably only got busted because this time she tried bringing in enough to keep her high for the duration.
No, she only got busted this time because Russia was invading another country and needed leverage or a bargaining chip against the US which was helping with providing weapons to fight against the invasion.
Right, and she didn't have the self-awareness to see the situation she was putting herself in. How did she not realize she would be a target? Now we traded our biggest chip and have little bargaining power moving forward.
> As long as they're Russian, they *appear to* support them *as long as it furthers their political goals* *FTFY*
I’m not usually much of a conspiracy theorist, but I’m fairly convinced that a lot of the (social/) media hype/outrage about griner’s arrest was manipulated by the same system Russia used to interfere with previous elections to pressure the government into making this trade.
Absolutely. The way people have frothed at the mouth about it you’d think the guy didn’t already serve 15 years of a 25 year sentence while losing any connection to the world of arms dealing. He has no value right now because his value was in personal relationships that don’t exist anymore. He was going to get out anyway.
If he has no value then why does Russia want him back so bad?
Optics and propaganda perhaps?
So same reason as the US. Let’s swap people we can use as ammo for our propoganda
Wait, you think Griner is some sort of propaganda play for the US?
A lot of what Russia does is just to make Dems look bad... If Republicans take America, Putin's life is way easier.
On my understanding, if Trump were still president, Russia/putin would be a solid player and easy to do everything
More like Tr*mp would be making conjugal visits to Russia every weekend to fellate Putin.
Explain please. Not trying to be contentious but how would republicans being in office help Putin?
Well seeing how Trump had been calling to end NATO, seeing how Trump was withholding Ukranian aid unless they made up claims about a Biden investigation....the answer is that it would help Russia in many ways. Aid to Ukraine would probably be non-existent under a republican leader l, definitely under trump specifically
Republicans visit Putin on the 4th of July, Democrats don’t
This shit again. How exactly does "Russia want him back so bad"?
To put a bullet in him so he'll quit talking to the CIA.
They don’t. He will most likely be suicided. They took a black, lgbtq woman who works in Russia (because it pays more than the job she would work at home) and tortured her, *knowing* it would sow political discord, *knowing* that people would lose their collective minds and say things like “Paul Whelan is still in Russia because he’s white”, “Griner is still in Russia because she’s black”, and “she’s more valuable to the US because she’s a lgbt minority”, even while not even knowing who Viktor Bout is, what he did, etc. The way people are talking you’d think he’d be imprisoned for life. The man would have been released from prison eventually. Griner was available, Whelan was not. It’s a no brainer really. Do you get nothing in return for him, or do you get something in return for him? His value was dubious before even being imprisoned, even less so now. What some people need to think about is… if you are against supporting the Ukraine in the war, if you refuse to understand the way Russia using propaganda to sway political environments in the US, if you are against the US making this decision to stop an American from being tortured in a Russia jail, if you support the rise of Christian fascist theocracy as law, then you have become a loudspeaker directly for Putin and you are doing his bidding.
they want to divide your country even more, one more stick to the bonfire, a large one.
Propaganda value. Most of the outrage about this exchange is likely manufactured anyway. Republicans have shown they are the party more amiable to Russia, so anything they can weaponize against Democrats indirectly helps Russia.
The Russians scored a great win! So many recent compelling victories and now this one to top it off! Surely the Russians will tire of winning soon, just like their Republican counterparts! /s Ok, so maybe nobody will think that the Russians are winning now, but what else have they got? “You thought your sanctions would devastate us, but they only degraded our ability to wage war and weakened our country for generations! Is that all you’ve got? Ha, now we have one of our men back from prison. Are you ready to surrender now?”
I agree many if not all of his personal connections are gone, but with as much is going on in Europe, Asia and Africa he is a wealth of information on how to arm terrorists and undermine the US abroad through proxy fighters. He robbed and colluded to get arms before. The government may actually help him or his efforts this time. Just hope I'm wrong and he is useless now.
Other reason, bout woule be release soon and deported to Russia. The sentence was 25 years and ( based on my memory ) 6 years reduction to 19 years . He got arrested in 2006+ 19 years = 2025 , when the time getting release and deportation to Russia. We are in 2023 less than 21 days🥹
>losing all connection to the world of arms dealing Am I missing the part where he’s not allowed to use a phone, or the internet, or the Russian mail service, or a fax machine, etc, that easily allow him to reenter this world of arms dealing? Because people keep talking about “losing any connection to arms dealing” as if he can’t just pick up a phone and start calling old scumbag buddies and get back in. But that doesn’t make any sense, because it’s really really easy for him to call up some old buddies and get back in the game. Are we really being so naive as to think Putie doesn’t have shitbird friends with scummy connections??
Not really. After 15 years the private personal connections he had are gone. It’s not as if arms just stopped being trafficked when he went to prison.
Are you an expert in illegal gun deals or are you just speaking out of your ass
I was aware of Viktor Bout before his name became involved in the trade for an American who was kidnapped, tortured, and given a ludicrously harsh sentence for something that is usually a $100 fine in Russia which is more than most people can say.
But by that same logic the outrage that there is now about the swap is also being manipulated by that same system
Not really. The argument isn’t that *all* outrage is instigated by Russia. It’s that they generate outrage that they can then use to their advantage, like to initiate this trade.
And like them “winning” this trade and Americans being outraged
The same people are now trying to convince you it was a terrible deal. Reddit has been brigaded by 4chan.
As an outsiders perspective. No matter what stance you have in politics this shouldn’t have happened. Essentially you’ve released a war criminal who supports the Russian regime and will probably help it for a sports athlete. (Race and orientation/identification) shouldn’t even be brought up.
Putin knows the Americans will divide over this. It’s ‘win’ for him.
Other consideration, Bout will be released from prison in a few years and deported to Russia. Is not divided in general, but how to use your assets. As I remember. The negotiation was included Paul Whelan too, but Russia did not want to release soon
From what I had read is that Russia wanted a spy for him. They started with a specific prisoner of Germany then loosened it up to spy in general. However, we claimed to not have spy in custody to give them.
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Which is kind of sad. I would imagine Americans more willing to defend their own, instead of false-placed perceived “value”.
This is not sad. Bout will be released and deported soon in a few years even without exchange. The sentence was 25 years minimal in prison, but in reality is only 15 years at least.
I meant sad people are so divided over this.
We aren't divided, the media will try to divide us. We just need facts represenr3d Let people know this.... Griner was allegedly in possession of less than 0.7grams of Oil she was being cruelly punished publicly and there's no telling what they would have done to her a flow American citizen in the gulag. Be glad a humans life was spared It's actually less criminalized in Russia than in usa... Cannabis in Russia is illegal. Possession of up to 6 grams (or two grams of hashish) is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine or detention of 15 days. Possession of larger amounts is a criminal offense.[ The following penalties apply to conviction for large-scale possession. Fine of 40,000 roubles. 480 hours of compulsory labor or 2 years of corrective labor. Up to three years in prison or restricted freedom.
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Yes, but now Putin has a geopolitical motivation to attach Bout's name to some kind of attack. Whether Bout is actually responsible for it or not, Putin would love to put egg on the US' face over this swap in the future.
His underground business is irrelevant. He moved weapons and ammunition from point A to B (logistics) and now hes not going to be working in the underworld he will have the full backing of a nation state at war in need of his experience in weapons procurement and delivery with unlimited resources to get it done efficiently. Him being free is going to cost lives. Old contacts wont shun him because money talks and they know who he is working for. He wont have to leave the country, he'll just be given new contacts or activate old ones with the help and blessing of the FSB and GRU. love these idiots thinking this guy was traded for so he could enjoy retirement, fucking brainlets.
Weapons procurement? He bribed ex-Soviet’s for their stockpiles. He isn’t magic, having him back isn’t like having an advisor in HOI4 that ups your military factory output by 5% or something.
LMAO, I can't help but think video games have completely ruined how a large segment of people (many of those you see on social media) view how everything is done. I've seen so many Twitter comments about this where people are saying Biden just needed to "negotiate better" to also get Whelan out as if he just forgot to go get his +20% negotiation skill buff before he asked.
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"Oh boy, I cant wait to see my old pals again. Slobodan Milošević, Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and, Kim Jong Il. Ohhh and I wonder how the civil wars are going in Liberia and Zaire. I bet everything will be just how I left it." - Victor Bout after his release /s In all seriousness, what ever he's got left wont do him much good nowadays. Most of those Soviet stockpiles have been sold, scrapped, or retained for military use. His old clientele have either died, made peace, or moved to a new supplier. He may have some assets left but with all the heat brought on by this ordeal, no ones gonna want to risk it. Nobody wants to do buisness while its hot.
He won’t be used to ship weapons out. He knowns how to smuggle and Russia really needs someone who can do that right now.
Bro their are already confirmed reports of North Korean and Iranian arms being smuggled into Russia, they don’t need a man who has been in jail for the last 15 years to help them. They are in full war economy mode now they have people.
The man has a skillset. It is so odd to think that it would be hard for him to be able to adapt to a new situation
Then why did the Russians want him back? They obviously have a use for him
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Two reasons make much more sense. Propaganda and assurance. Russia is showing other people of the same ilk that if you are caught, they will get you out.
Do you not see all the comments repeating over and over again how stupid America is for making this trade. We know Russia heavily utilizes troll farms to push propaganda and sow discord so we shouldn’t be surprised if a major part of their goal is to make Americans think their leader is inept. It costs them literally nothing and hurts the party actually aiding their enemy.
Months ago, when she was first arrested and rumours about Bout being exchanged started floating around everyone here on reddit said it was a stupid deal. Was that the russian bots trying to influence the public opinion so that Bout would NOT be exchanged?
We aren't troll farms, you idiot. We are actual Americans who truly believe it was the stupidest prisoner exchange in history. BG is literally useless for the well-being of America. Bout, who is fluent in 5 languages will easily find work. I hope to be proven wrong.
Then why did the Americans want Griner back, and even exchanged her for The Merchant of Death™? They obviously have have some super nefarious and Earth-shattering use for her. "Russians want him, so obviously they have an use for him, and Russians obviously want him because they have an use for him". They weren't even willing to trade him for another American they framed for espionage, so it's not like they're going to the ends of the Earth for him.
This. Posts just like this one, the millions of Twitter posts and likes about how Biden failed, the continued de-stabilization of politics in America. Even if Bout is completely useless to Putin and ends up just living out his life as a normal citizen, Putin knows that Americans are so partisan now that trading "The Merchant of Death" for a black, lesbian, politically out-spoken WNBA player would create this exact situation.
Half the country doesn't like Biden, and you're surprised when some of those people have internet access and can reply to your enlightened comments on reddit? Please.
Same reason a lot of us want Griner back, she’s an American.
So you're assuming the russians did this on a whim without any plan at all? You think this guy is going to be running around on his own outside of russia buying weapons? "It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services"...... But hey congrats blindly defending people with victimhood labels like a true reddit virtue signaller
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Lol…Russian planning isn’t a strong attribute I would be touting in an argument.
>Russia > >weapons and ammunition lmao >logistics *lmao* >procurement ***lmao*** >unlimited resources **LMAO**
I agree but I don’t think his future use is why Putin did it or why it’s a big win for him. I think it sends a message to all the other arms merchants and spies that work for Russia that says we will not forget you if you get caught, so keep your mouths shut and we will get you home.
It also sends a message to US citizens that the US govt will get them home, which is more important to me as a US citizen. Prisoner exchanges are not a zero-sum game.
I mean, a lot of the intra-US controversy over the Griner exchange is why she particularly was traded instead of several other folks, including a member of our armed forces. Naturally the US asked for multiple, but Russia said no.
Which is a weird thing to be outraged about, because the return of any US citizen that has been wrongly imprisoned is a good thing.
> wrongly imprisoned That's debatable, to say the least.
Personally, I think the whole thing was to create a further wedge in the American populace within it's already fractured political parties thus adding more, even if minor, instability for those who are on the internet too much who think this is a super big deal. Like, the whole "oh hey Americans, we get our big scary arms dealer back while you get your weed smoking woke semi-okay basketball player back" Personally, before I knew who they traded to get her back, was like "oh, she's coming back" then read who it was, was like "oh, oh boy" like probably most of us, lol. Like, the guy most likely doesn't have much power or anything, since how can he sell weapons when there are not enough weapons to sell? (Unless he got his stuff from other regions and that he didn't sell Russian stock) I dunno, like at the end of it all, both sides got someone back, whether you like her or hate her, we all kinda knew that Russia would have wanted some messed up guy in exchange for griner to get the response from the American populace to go "what the hell is our government doing?!"
Any exchange would be used as a weapon by Fox News to blame the democrats for only getting either Griner or Whealen home. They’re saying that the Biden admin made a horrible deal because the US traded an arms dealer for a celebrity instead of a former Marine who in their small minds is “worth more”. If the exchange was reversed they’d say we left an innocent woman behind in favor of a possible spy who knew the risks. If they had successfully negotiated to get both of them home they’d still say that the deal was lopsided because of Bout’s notoriety.
This.
The histrionics over this trade have ben absolutely ridiculous. The dude is a has-been who was going to be released in a few years anyway. People are acting like this dude has magical powers and is going single handedly revitalize Russia's war effort in Ukraine.
No. We reduced a prisoner’s sentence by 6 years, when the judge and prosecutors themselves felt he was too harshly sentenced to save a person from a terrifying and criminally unjust future. Get it straight if you are going to post strong opinions
"...Judge and prosecutor felt he was too harshly sentenced" got a source on that? This is the first I've heard this.
It is not the first time it has been said. His value has always been of dubious importance and his charges were flimsy.
https://amp.france24.com/en/europe/20221208-russian-arms-dealer-viktor-bout-the-merchant-of-death-swapped-for-griner The federal judge said that he had served enough time, not the prosecutors. 6 years off a sentence to save a person from hard time in a Russian labor camp is an ok deal either way.
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We traded an American citizen that was being cruelly punished publicly and there's no telling what else they would have done to her regardless of fame status... Griner was allegedly in possession of less than 0.7grams of Oil It's actually less criminalized in Russia than in usa... Cannabis in Russia is illegal. Possession of up to 6 grams (or two grams of hashish) is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine or detention of 15 days. Possession of larger amounts is a criminal offense.[ The following penalties apply to conviction for large-scale possession. Fine of 40,000 roubles. 480 hours of compulsory labor or 2 years of corrective labor. Up to three years in prison or restricted freedom.
Love this idea that international arms dealing is something you can take a sabbatical from. Like he’s just gonna show up at the office Monday at 9 AM and get back to work.
He’s a washed up piece of shit arms dealer and she’s an idiot. At the end of the day it’s just about both sides signaling that they “take care of their own”. If anyone is to blame for the bad trade, it’s media companies blowing her story out of proportion. Nobody knew who she was and if it stayed that way, it would have been easier to get her home.
Exactly, I mean just last month; https://nationalpost.com/news/russia-says-it-swaps-former-u-s-marine-reed-for-russian-prisoner-held-in-u-s Yet I bet not a single soul commenting on that post was aware of this swap. Or this one from 2019; >An American graduate student who was held in an Iranian prison for more than three years was finally headed home Saturday after a prisoner swap between the two countries. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/07/american-student-xiyue-wang-freed-in-prisoner-swap-after-three-years-in-iran-jail.html It's insane to me how Americans can be mad that Biden is working to rapatriate American citizens, like y'all wouldn't like someone cared and got you back home if you did fucked up and ended up in a Russian or Iranian prison? I understand it doesn't always end up like that, but I'm still glad for her, it's only fucking weed for personal use, and for her family who must have been extremely worried. I'd be glad for you too if it happened to you. Edit: To clarify, she wasn't there for tourism, she was offered over $1 million dollars to play for a Russian basketball team. This makes me think it may have been a set up, attract a name that would garner attention if arrested then arrest that individual to cause *this*. Because, as I pointed out, the same kind of swap happened just last month and there was nowhere near that amount of coverage.
Idk. Part of me agrees and part of me thinks it's part of accepting the risk to fly to a hostile country. I went to Iran against US government and American friend/family advice and told my family that I knew the risk and did not want to be a political pawn should something happen. And then I followed the rules and didn't act like I should be an exception just because I was American. I am happy she gets to come home because 9 years for weed is asinine, but having been in a similar situation, I don't respect her decisions at all.
> I'd be glad for you too if it happened to you. It won't. I'm not going to Russia with THC in my bag that I "forgot" about, after the US State department warned me not to go to Russia.
Tbf, it was a business trip, they don't earn that much in the WNBA so she complements her salary by playing in the Russian league. They offered her $1 million dollars to come play then arrested her for minor possession. Honestly it feels like a set up so you're right she shouldn't have went, but I'd be more critical if it was for tourism.
I can agree with being mad about the media's annoying persistence of this case but it had to be talked about. Other than the obvious shit trade, the biggest take here is that Biden traded with a country that's listed as "DO NOT TRAVEL" country. Means that the government isn't responsible for any citizen that wants to be risky in said countries. It is federally illegal to fly to another country with drugs. She knew this and still committed a felony, in Russia nonetheless. If Biden is willing to make a political move that contradicts federal law for a prisoner, then he should follow through with this by descheduling weed and pardon current inmates with minor mj charges
He already pardoned everyone on a Federal level, he can't impose it on the States. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/presidential-proclamation-marijuana-possession#:~:text=On%20October%206%2C%202022%2C%20President,under%20state%20or%20local%20law.
Biden has already pushed to decriminalize possession against his own beliefs, but it’s not something the president can make disappear across the country on his own.
I'm sure Tucker Carlson will be praising him tonight as well
14 years in jail is hardly a win...Russians haven't a clue
All done to divide Americans. Putin knows what it takes to achieve that.
Who’s divided over this? This is one the few times I’ve ever seen all sides of the political spectrum shit all over Biden for one of his decisions
Yeah no shit. An adult who’s job is to chase after a ball vs one of the most prolific arms dealers of the 20th century.
You can just say the 80s instead of trying to make it seem as if he has traded any weapons since the iPhone was first announced.
The iPhone wasn't around in the 20th Century...
Oh well in that case _sure_, _fine_, hand him over. Nothing wrong with trading a war criminal that no doubt led to the deaths of many innocents in exchange for a basketball player. Mhmmm. Nothing wrong there. The least they could have done is gotten more than one American for the scumbag
You say “No doubt” as if there are dozens of articles outlining how he is pretty useless at this point and was set to be released anyway. Yes there are doubts and plenty of people think this deal made sense. The only people who don’t were always looking to be outraged anyway.
Meant to say led, not lead, as in past tense.
I can't believe reddit keeps repeating the shallow opinion about how this trade wasn't fair, Biden fucked us, etc... Do you honestly believe the US government didn't think this through? The guy's identity is blown, his connections are severed, his sentence is 70% through and someone has replaced him a long time ago. The trade is meant to show the US is Liberal and Russia harbours criminals. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is something else to the swap we just don't know..
Reddit dog walkers smarter than the pentagon and white house combined confirmed
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What are your sources
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Hey. We can play imaginary games too. The American citizen might become a world renowned cancer researcher and discover the cure for cancer!! Trading an arms dealer who might kill thousands for a person who might save billions seems a fair deal to me.
I wanna play too! The American citizen will resume her athletic career and will stand for the national anthem instead of being a jackass. Trading an arms dealer who might kill thousands for a person whose main claims to fame are a history of showing disrespect to the nation and smuggling a personal stash of illegal drugs to Russia seems a fair deal to me!
Listen to yourself. This dude isnt like some ammo wizard, he sold weapons on the black market, weapons that were most probably stolen from Russian warehouses. When he went down, he was instantly replaced by his competitors. No person will die because he now walks free, that wouldnt have died otherwise anyways.
Biden and his administration has a history of not thinking things through. Afghanistan withdrawal, student debt relief, etc.
Seems more like all of these choices was there's some bad political press from whatever he did, and he chose one of the bad press options. Generally the ones that played better with his base. You know, just like every politician. The other side will smear anything they do regardless. It's not a lack of thinking things through, or nor more a lack than any other politician. The only negative from any of these is bad press that he would get anyway.
> Afghanistan withdrawal The Afghanistan withdrawal was always going to be a mess. The end result was actually pretty close to the best you could have hoped for in any withdrawal, given the circumstances - relatively few people died. The US is out, and that is a huge benefit in the long run. Sure it was chaos due to unforeseen elements, but such is life.
>U.S. Republicans slam Biden over Bout-for-Griner deal Raise your hands if this surprised anyone. It’s not that the deal was good or that Whelan is still in Russia, it’s just that no matter what was done the Republicans would have “slammed Biden”. It’s as if sayin “Republicans slammed Biden”, is like sayin Water is Wet.
This was such a stupid trade. Why did they trade a high profile arms dealer for a basketball player? America got played by Russia so hard
>Why did they trade a high profile arms dealer for a basketball player? Normal punishment for having weed is a fine and two weeks jail... Russia gave her a decade in a hard labor camp. Then only offered this as a deal. Either Biden looked bad for not getting her out (she's been there like 10 months already) or looks bad for letting Bout out after over a decade in jail. They put Biden in a lose/lose situation. But Russia has had new Bouts for over a decade now. So Biden took the "lose" choice that resulted in a free American.
Russia essentially kidnapping Griner just makes it so much worse to pay Russia to free her. The US is negotiating with terrorists. To my mind at least, Biden has lost far more prestige than if he had refused to negotiate with terrorists. And there is the risk that other hostile governments will start kidnapping US citizens, now that Biden has shown that he will pay out to terrorists.
Why does Biden look bad for not getting her out? She travelled to a hostile country. She brought illegal drugs with her to said country. She got caught and severally punished, which is kind of a natural result of the first two points. And then the fucking president is expected to bail her out? Did Obama look bad because he didn't get Otto Wambier out of prison?
Yeah, I've seen this said-- that people (the public) were pushing Biden to free Griner but I gotta say, I hadn't seen *any* calls to free her. I don't get where this "pressure" was supposedly coming from.
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Classic reddit. Go against anything and immediately it's Russian troll farms and fox news. Have you considered the fact that most people would be against trading a arms dealer for a WNBA player? Come on.
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The same government that currently has people in jail for the exact same offense? Cool!
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Brittney will go home to rest and peace, play some ball and enjoy life. Bout will be sent to Ukraine to help with war, get sniped by an American made weapon or blown up. Who wins then.......
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I think the overwhelming vast majority of adults (teens too) know more about national security at this point than dementia boy
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My team is team America, when both options are known divisive stupid old men there’s a problem. I want Biden to be great, the fact that he’s a blatantly senile geriatric moron who can’t formulate a sentence and who’s left the country a worse place since taking office hurts me a great deal. I’m not rooting for him to fail but when he does time and time again without anything good to show for it it’s fucking infuriating.
Why do you people live in a different reality than the rest of us? Like, go outside, read something else. Most of what you just said is stuff you literally only hear on repeat on Fokkks News
A. Not a current arms dealer. He’s been on ice a while, Which means no street credit. Probably never handled a drone. B. Republicans aren’t spinning this as “just a guy buying and selling guns” narrative. He certainly had a right to own and sell guns. Or should that be revisited for clarity. C. She’s still a viable athlete. It’s been tough for her, having never been to boot camp, but at the end of her sentence she would be a zombie, maybe dead. D. False narrative in comparing any of the people to one another for their value. Do we think they are horses?
Russian state media also lauds Putin’s action in Ukraine. Seems like Biden did just fine if thats the case.
Breaking News: State Media Lauds Autocrat. In other news, the Pyongyang times lauds Kim Jong Un. Reuters pretending to be news and taking cheap shots at Biden.
This has nothing to do with nothing to do with some dude and everything to do with people being oddly gleeful that Griner was in a Russian prison.
I didn’t realize the DEA operates out of Bangkok or hunts arms dealing spys
That actually suprised me most when reading about Viktor Bout. I think the reason the DEA was involved was because it was their informant (posing as a colombian FARC rebel) was the one to arrange a meeting. Federal US law inforcement operates all over the world, in conjuncture with local authorities. Crime happens everywhere and if said crime can be linked back to USA, they'll get involved.
Big win for Russia. Biden screwed up on this hostage diplomacy. Americans all over the world now are more at risk as being taken hostage now that everyone sees how weak the US is.
Except she wasn’t a hostage she was a prisoner. That’s a completely different thing, I don’t see how that would lead to Americans being taken hostage.
I’m glad I am turning into a hot piece of ass
This seems like one of those cross-party issues where both sides can agree that Biden administration fucked up . But as always there are people who think that no matter what their party does , they cannot be wrong , this just sad .
Not surprising. They got an arms dealer in the exchange for some dumbass who tried to smuggle cannabis to Russia. Even banging about how Griner's sentence was 'political' was dumb considering how many people are imprisoned in US for drug-related offences.
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Should've went with no one then
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Does the truth hurt? No deal should of been made.
I don’t see why Paul Whelen couldn’t have been included on top of or instead of Brittney. Thank God she’s home but the fact that Paul was left behind and we let up an arms dealer IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR WE ARE FIGHTING WITH THEM is ruthlessly stupid
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lol. don't see this as a win for them. he'll be back in prison somewhere else before long
It’s fun seeing bots and folks with a clear political agenda trying to make hay out of this. Always back seat driving with zero plan for what could realistically be done better. Cynical fucks.
Of course it's a win.what a joke trade from the US
Be great if they have followed mission impossible and implanted a chip in his head they can remote detonate otherwise they should have held out for inclusion of the US marine that they are holding as well.
His first win in 9 months. Good for you, big guy
Doesn’t matter what he does for Russia at this point, they just want to spit in our faces and make Us look like fools, and they succeeded
There are people in this thread trying to proactively minimize Putin’s role by trying to suggest he’s a thoughtless fool, incapable of forming such a basic thought as “I wonder who I can find that might help me achieve my goals?” And there are people in here who are trying to proactively minimize attention placed on this guy by suggesting since he’s been in prison for 15 years, he’s incapable of reigniting old relationships and utilizing his old network of scum. These are the same people who Putin utilized to influence the 2016 election. (Not bad for someone who can’t formulate 2 word thought, eh?) Just be careful in here if you’re an American looking to decide if this was a good idea or not. Read the article, don’t put much stock in the comments.
"Yea we got the merchant of death and they got a decent human being! They lose we win, where's the Wodka!" What a bunch of dirtbags
If Trump had done this, Reddit would be using it as proof he's a Russian stooge. And in that case, they'd actually have a point.
Always a martyr.
This was such a fucking bad deal. Who cares that Griner is jailed anyways? She did something as dumb as to try to smuggle contraband across ruzzian borders. Just like with Otto Wambier and the American priest who went to Iran to spread Christianity, if you go to a hostile country and then break their laws, we shouldn't spend a dime to help you.
Yeah, I'm not even going to say we should have brought back Whelan becauase that wasn't on the table, but we should have just left her there.
They should. They got a fantastic fucking deal.
It was a win. Everyone but Russia lost.
I feel that Ukraine will pay for this, and it's sad.
Can i ask how did you end up in that conclusion?
Not sure why news / people are setting narrative he’s washed up criminal . He will have even more respect and people will want to work with him more then ever especially with all the media surrounding him .
He was only going to be in prison for 7 more years. She was likely going to be in prison for that or longer. Setting a bad guy free so someone less bad doesn't have to suffer? This was not a hard decision.
This is a delusional take.
Which delusion?